SUBFEST 2011-HuskerOmaha and Desertdome's Subwoofer Showdown - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Interestingly, nobody has yet commented (I think) that the Submersive "dug deeper" than any of the other offerings. The demo clips were all checked with a spectrum analyzer and many have bass extending down into single digits. Black Hawk Down, Hulk - Cop Car, How To Train Your Dragon, Red Cliff, Bass I Love You and a couple others all had very low content. I was in seat #5 which had 5 dB more of bass below 15 Hz than the calibration mic and I didn't notice any more low bass. It must take several to a lot of sealed subs to really notice the difference.

I agree. The SS 18.2 was the first sub to feel the bass on the Black Hawk Down scene (it is not masked with other frequencies). Even with the Submersive, it was very subtle. My favorite part was after the Kid Cudi track when Greg and Archaea both jump and want to know how deep it dug. It only went to 30 Hz haha.

I wonder if under 20 Hz has any effect on the soundstage. I was not critical about this. The only time I noticed an absence of the soundstage was with the Growler/DTS-10 combo which was because of the DTS.

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Old 10-25-2011, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Interestingly, nobody has yet commented (I think) that the Submersive "dug deeper" than any of the other offerings. The demo clips were all checked with a spectrum analyzer and many have bass extending down into single digits. Black Hawk Down, Hulk - Cop Car, How To Train Your Dragon, Red Cliff, Bass I Love You and a couple others all had very low content. I was in seat #5 which had 5 dB more of bass below 15 Hz than the calibration mic and I didn't notice any more low bass. It must take several to a lot of sealed subs to really notice the difference.

I added WOTW to your list because that's got the ULF stuff in it too.

Here are those score breakdowns - obviously these scores are very close

In all cases it was Caps and SubM as top two scores - CHT sealed tied the caps with 2nd place on Black Hawk Down and Hulk

Black Hawk Down - SubM wins - 7.0 vs. 6.83 on Caps tied w/ 18.2
Hulk - SubM wins - 9.0 vs 8.5 on Caps tied w/ 18.2
HTTYD - Caps win - 8.67 vs. 8.5 on SubM
Red Cliff - Caps win - 8.17 vs. 8.0 on SubM
Bass I Love You - Caps win - 8.83 vs. 8.67 on SubM
WOTW - Caps win - 9.17 vs. 9.0 on SubM

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Old 10-25-2011, 03:57 PM
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I am more and more impressed with the SubM the more I read about it. Too bad I can't fit it in my room.
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Interestingly, nobody has yet commented (I think) that the Submersive "dug deeper" than any of the other offerings. The demo clips were all checked with a spectrum analyzer and many have bass extending down into single digits. Black Hawk Down, Hulk - Cop Car, How To Train Your Dragon, Red Cliff, Bass I Love You and a couple others all had very low content. I was in seat #5 which had 5 dB more of bass below 15 Hz than the calibration mic and I didn't notice any more low bass. It must take several to a lot of sealed subs to really notice the difference.

Given the size of the room, it's not surprising really. Would be tough to get any pressurization or feel that low from any single sub.

If you tried the same test in say a 2,000 cubic foot room, I'd imagine you'd be able to tell the difference much more easily, and even then you'd have to be playing the material at -10 or higher to reference (assuming the sealed sub can handle it lower volumes at that level and isn't high passed/limited) to really notice.

I think you've hit it spot on when you say it would take several (more than 1 in any event!) sealed sub to notice a difference that far low in that size of a room ... I'd guess anyhow.

 

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Old 10-25-2011, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Archaea, I'm curious how my Turbos compared to the SVS PB13- Ultras.

That's real tough to know without hearing them side by side in the same room.

I can confidentally say this - I felt the CHT products did better in this meet against the SubM and Cap than the HSU, SVS, and Epik products did against the SubM and Cap at the KC meet. Since I felt your turbos were right in line with the CHT products on scoring - then I'd feel confident your setup is better than the SVS PB12 + we listened to at KC that I placed 3rd on my ranking. That isn't exactly what you were asking - but it's really hard to know. The other difficulty is the SVS, HSU, and Epik were all singles - and your setup was a double. I'd wager the PB13 Ultras and your turbos are pretty similar in capability based on this little "if A is like B and B is like C then A ~ C scenario I'm replaying - but its probably a careless judgement call, and should be taken lightly. A final noteworth point is that I really felt (from your turbos) that tactile response I enjoy while in Greg's 3800 cubic foot room. They hit you in the gut/chest/legs - everything. Great! From the HSU and Epik in KC's meet in my 3500 cubic foot room I never felt anything worth getting excited about. I only barely felt the SVS starting to do that --- Even a single of your sub seems like it would have felt tactile --- so there you go...

I know I really did enjoy your turbos, and I wouldn't run out to trade them in for a pair of PB13 Ultras if I were you.

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Old 10-25-2011, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

I agree. The SS 18.2 was the first sub to feel the bass on the Black Hawk Down scene (it is not masked with other frequencies). Even with the Submersive, it was very subtle. My favorite part was after the Kid Cudi track when Greg and Archaea both jump and want to know how deep it dug. It only went to 30 Hz haha.

Archaea and I talked about this afterwards. That frequency spectrum is BS. We had our pant legs flapping and we were feelings some air on the CHT/JTR/Seaton stuff with the Kid Kudi track. I give up, something was going on and 30hz wasn't it! I agree with Kwarny though, the 18.2 was the first of the four that we could actaully feel the black hawk down rotor blades. Cool when you finally do feel that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I added WOTW to your list because that's got the ULF stuff in it too.

Here are those score breakdowns - obviously these scores are very close

In all cases it was Caps and SubM as top two scores - CHT sealed tied the caps with 2nd place on Black Hawk Down and Hulk

Black Hawk Down - SubM wins - 7.0 vs. 6.83 on Caps tied w/ 18.2
Hulk - SubM wins - 9.0 vs 8.5 on Caps tied w/ 18.2
HTTYD - Caps win - 8.67 vs. 8.5 on SubM
Red Cliff - Caps win - 8.17 vs. 8.0 on SubM
Bass I Love You - Caps win - 8.83 vs. 8.67 on SubM
WOTW - Caps win - 9.17 vs. 9.0 on SubM

You know, I was really concentrating on listening to the tonal quality and the audible ranges of all of the subs that I didn't ever really try, or didn't notice anyways differences down low between the CHT 18.2/VS 18.1s and the SubM HP and JTR Cap. Not enough time to get all of that done in one day! Desertdome is already pimping me for more sessions. haha

The only difference that I experienced with the SubM and the CHT 18.2 was a few more audible differences on notes or tones I felt I heard exemplified more on the SubM than the 18.2. I was being super picky. My scores show how close I felt the last 4 were. I also wonder how more break in for the VS 18s would have affected their scoring vs the Cap Pros. I know my 18 twins after a few months sounded different to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

I am more and more impressed with the SubM the more I read about it. Too bad I can't fit it in my room.

Great sub.

Can't fit the submersive in your room? It isn't that big.
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

When I saw the noEQ measurement on the screen of the 18.2 I asked Craig if they had the HP filter off on the amp and he said they had checked the amp. I'm pretty sure this was more a function of an acoustic anomaly in the room around 14Hz than differences in the high pass. Look at the SubMersive response where you can see the raw starting response had a peak and 10dB drop from ~16-14Hz. The outdoor response that results in this curve is only 6dB down from the maximum at 15-16Hz:

If you superimpose this dip/drop on a response that is already rolling off more, the result observed is easily possible. I suspect this dip is related to some combination of the stairway which had an open door at the top and the left wall to the equipment rack and utility area being less solid than the foundation wall on the right.

One other consideration is that these were not frequency sweeps with any sort of windowing/noise immunity, they were RTA-type measurements. At low frequencies noise is a real issue, and given the roll off before any EQ, the response below ~15Hz was likely getting into the noise floor for both the vented and sealed CHT subs, as you see other vented subs and the F20s all hit a floor below which the response doesn't drop. Such measurement is always subject to variation measurement to measurement with the trade off of being much quicker and plenty useful for the higher level ranges were EQ is expected to be used. If you look, the response further smoothed a little down low when desertdome applied the Linkwitz Transform in this graph:

In the end the peak/dip swamps the difference in the roll of of the two subs as it occurs in the middle of the roll off.

Interesting Mark, I'm going to take a look at these.

To rule this out, since you've done some work with the SA-1000, do you know what the roll-off of the amp itself is (or perhaps Kevin knows or measured)? Since a modified version of the amp was planned for the dual sealed MFW-15 project, I assume it did not have a significant low end roll-off.

Also, do you have new GP SubM HP measurements posted somewhere, all I have is one with the old DSP settings?

Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:19 PM
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I really only have one spot to place a large sub (between my couch and wall where my current pb12-plus resides) and the dual opposed drivers would be problematic.

Sorry for the OT...
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Desertdome ... the response below 15/17-ish hz looks odd for some of the sealed offerings. Curious, with your ECM8000 (and maybe you've answered this somewhere), but was it a calibrated MIC down to 5hz with the associated calibration file inputted into REW? Or was the "averaged" file used that comes with REW?

The mic was calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs to 5 Hz and its calibration file was used. The "averaged" file happens to be quite a bit different than my mic's own calibration. I'm glad I got it calibrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I know I really did enjoy your turbos, and I wouldn't run out to trade them in for a pair of PB13 Ultras if I were you.

I have no plans to change unless it is to go IB. I already own 8 Acoustic Elegance IB15 drivers and an amp for them.

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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Given the size of the room, it's not surprising really. Would be tough to get any pressurization or feel that low from any single sub.

I would like to hear subs in a sealed room. Maybe I should take mine into the bathroom sometime when the family is gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

That frequency spectrum is BS.

I tested some really low test tones just to make sure everything would be graphed and we had enough accuracy for a pharmacist. Below are 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, & 30 Hz test tones. I think people underestimate bass. I've had subs that don't play below 30 Hz and people are amazed at all the "low bass." What is impressive about the Kid Cudi track is the 20+ dB increase on volume on 5 notes under 100 Hz. That'll move some air!




Kid Kudi - Day 'n' Night

LL
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

I really only have one spot to place a large sub (between my couch and wall where my current pb12-plus resides) and the dual opposed drivers would be problematic.

Sorry for the OT...

If you can fit a PB12-plus I'd be surprised if you couldn't fit a SubMersive if the added height of 25.5" wasn't a problem. You only need about 3" from the back wall, and removing the grill facing the wall saves another 0.5" putting the rear driver at a similar distance as it often required with the connectors on the rear of most other subs.

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Old 10-25-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

Interesting Mark, I'm going to take a look at these.

To rule this out, since you've done some work with the SA-1000, do you know what the roll-off of the amp itself is (or perhaps Kevin knows or measured)? Since a modified version of the amp was planned for the dual sealed MFW-15 project, I assume it did not have a significant low end roll-off.

Also, do you have new GP SubM HP measurements posted somewhere, all I have is one with the old DSP settings?

Thanks.

The Quattro amp for the sealed MFW drivers was in the amp rack at HuskerOmaha's (note the 3 logos on the top SA-1000 amps in the rack), but they ran out of time and didn't get to play with it. I'd have to dig a bit, but I believe the SA-1000 is only 2-4dB down at 10Hz. Engaging the high pass on the same box makes for a very obvious change in frequency response.

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Old 10-25-2011, 07:30 PM
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Vitaminbass - I remember when you switched out your Malestrom with your Rythmik. You stated that the Mal is a meat cleaver while the Rythmik is like a scalpel. Could you explain that more? I found the Rythmik to be thinner sounding cause the notes decayed noticeably quicker.

Any thoughts or opinions on any of this matter?

Cool that someone read one of my posts! Seriously though, I stand by those comments. The Rythmik paired with a nice accurate set of monitors makes for an amazing system for music. The Maelstrom, for music, had the output and I wouldn't say it was sloppy but it was more of a "just think what it would have been like if I had this in the dorms in college" type of a thing, not as accurate and realistic though.

Shortly after I built the Rythmik I was so impressed with the music performace of couse I was curious what it would do for movies. First impression there was good, but the first time I bottomed it (well, maybe not but it made some bad sounds) I just felt really bad...like I had been given a gift from the bass gods and I was abusing it.

From my understanding, Brian has worked to put a limiter circuit on the amp (mine was earlier version) and it might be pretty difficult to hurt the newer ones. For movies, with multiples and/or careful calibration it could be a great sub but in my opinion that's not where the greatest strength lies.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:33 PM
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Great job and great read guys! This is the first shootout where I feel you really tried to learn from the other shootouts and tried to improve upon the others!

Good to see the a7s-450 generally topped the list of best 'single' subs tested. I'm actually impressed that some rated it better than the pair of F20's...I'd figure any somewhat comparable dual is better than a single. I'm sure duals A7S's would have surprised a lot of people, especially at its price point. Dr. S, I wouldn't worry to much about the HPF. Just boost through it, it can take it.

Husker, I may have missed this but why didn't you test your 18.T?

Archea, from what I gather....I take it you're a ported fan? Particularly the captivator? I know I may be reading between the lines, but I think I picked up some subtle hints recently in your AVS posts. Have you ever looked at the eD A7-900? To me, that's the king of the ported subs. I know of many who can hit a clean 125db+ at the lp with just one..sounds right up your alley and I believe is comparable cost to the cap.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:47 PM
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Who was the Russian judge that was handing out "1"s? Maybe you need to do Olympic scoring, throw out the high and the low.

I was rooting for the F20s, since they're the closest thing on the menu to my THT LPs (one of the two under construction - damn, ran out of PL tonight).

Certainly a ton of variation on the scoring - thanks for sharing the results, and the descriptions from the attendees.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:02 PM
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I rated things quite conservatively. I don't think anything got a 10 on my sheet, and nothing got a 1 either.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Great job and great read guys! This is the first shootout where I feel you really tried to learn from the other shootouts and tried to improve upon the others!

Thanks, Desertdome and I really tried to think of what would be best and least likely to get ripped apart by all of the "experts" on avsforum. That is why we asked for suggestions from Ricci and the like that have tested before. I think we managed fairly well. If someone can do a big group of subs like this, and blind, that would be interesting to see what happens. I felt ownership bias was the biggest problem in our....liking what you own and spent money on-not that there is anything wrong with that.

Good to see the a7s-450 generally topped the list of best 'single' subs tested. I'm actually impressed that some rated it better than the pair of F20's...I'd figure any somewhat comparable dual is better than a single. I'm sure duals A7S's would have surprised a lot of people, especially at its price point. Dr. S, I wouldn't worry to much about the HPF. Just boost through it, it can take it.

I thought the eD was good, and if we would have had duals that would have been nice. The F20s might have got cheated by going first and setting a benchmark for the others-who knows! They are so big we didn't want to carry them up and out twice. They put out some bass that is for sure. Especially the rumbly kind

Husker, I may have missed this but why didn't you test your 18.T?

We ended up doing the 18.2 because I was thinking it was better to do one in production (mine twins are now not-that exact design anyways) and there was another suggestion I've since forgotten. That dip at 40hz would have got tamed out with my duals though.

Archea, from what I gather....I take it you're a ported fan? Particularly the captivator? I know I may be reading between the lines, but I think I picked up some subtle hints recently in your AVS posts. Have you ever looked at the eD A7-900? To me, that's the king of the ported subs. I know of many who can hit a clean 125db+ at the lp with just one..sounds right up your alley and I believe is comparable cost to the cap.

I've always wanted to hear the A7-900. That thing is HUGE. Archaea MAY like ported, I'm not really sure.

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Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Who was the Russian judge that was handing out "1"s? Maybe you need to do Olympic scoring, throw out the high and the low.

Here we go again. Kcnitro07, get up here and defend yourself.

I was rooting for the F20s, since they're the closest thing on the menu to my THT LPs (one of the two under construction - damn, ran out of PL tonight).

Certainly a ton of variation on the scoring - thanks for sharing the results, and the descriptions from the attendees.

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Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I rated things quite conservatively. I don't think anything got a 10 on my sheet, and nothing got a 1 either.

I had a bunch of 8 and 9, but it had to shock the hell out of me to get a 10. Which happened a few times.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post


Archea, from what I gather....I take it you're a ported fan? Particularly the captivator? I know I may be reading between the lines, but I think I picked up some subtle hints recently in your AVS posts. Have you ever looked at the eD A7-900? To me, that's the king of the ported subs. I know of many who can hit a clean 125db+ at the lp with just one..sounds right up your alley and I believe is comparable cost to the cap.

I'd love to hear one, in all seriousness -- where do I have to go? Who will host the next meet so we can line them up?

For that meet we ought to get a couple seaton submersives in the mix too. Pairs of each and 3 way double blind test. Nominal SPL test, and then max clean spl test (with ear protection on) --- just judging how many inches/feet the couch vibrates across the floor to determine the winner.

As far as replacing the caps --- If I need more than 125dB spl levels on steady continous dubstep music at my listening position like I have now (not talking 125dB explosion peaks!) -- all I'll need to do is replace my single EP4000 amp with a beefier model or two and bingo --- I'll be deaf!

I'm not currently sub or even amp limited - I'm room limited... Perhaps I'll tell the wife we need to move so I can have a bigger theatre room!

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Old 10-26-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Archaea MAY like ported, I'm not really sure.
I had a bunch of 8 and 9, but it had to shock the hell out of me to get a 10. Which happened a few times.

Greg,

You're a closet ported subwoofer fan. No ninja edits allowed but you should look at your subjective comments on the ported caps...

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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

JTR Dual Cap Pros

• M/C: Noticed footsteps above more than 18.2.
• Tron: Equal to 18.2
• Sideswipe: hit good, cannons not as good as 18.2 but the cut down the middle of the car was more audible
• WOTW: Asphalt breaking sounds amazing. Best so far
• FOTP: Barrel roll is solid, haven’t felt impressed yet
• Bumblebee: Same as 18.2 on roll
• Hulk tackle: best so far: you can feel the soundwave that breaks the theater marquee
• FOTR: nice wave
• HTTYD: best main scene and wing flapping so far
• Red Cliff: Solid drum level even to 18.2: best ships crashing sounds so far
• Deeper: hit all notes clean with extra oompf
• Music overall: surprised how much I liked this, still prefer the tactile nature and the better letting go of notes the 18.2 has, but I could definitely live with this given its awesome treatment of movie material

Better at music than I thought they would be. Definitely feel like they have output to spare, even when we played Open Range at 118 db. I wouldn’t go louder other than to show off. Open Range was very impressive. The Hulk scene was freaking amazing…that shock wave seems hard to reproduce in my room. M/C best of the subs.

then your SubmersiveHP comments

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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post


• M/C- great explosions. Awesome
• Sideswipe: cleanest and deepest extension on slow mo to date
• WOTW: solid and awesome range, no complaints
• HTTYD: awesome.
• Battle LA: popping of spaceship tight, crisp
• Red Cliff: Drum precise and good
• Deeper: By far the best demo of this track tonight
• Eagles: hits HARD
• Kudi: bliss. Perfect
• Ghosts: Solid: The 18.2 matches it on this song.
• FOTR: Finally heard the cleanest sweep of Sauron with his hammer, the ring drop, and the sweep was impactful for the first time

My favorite overall sub. Felt the deepest extension. Cleanest sweeps with slow-motion. Music was expectedly tight and precise and filled the room. That little box didn’t seem to vibrate at all and definitely the best looking and WAF approved sub of all of them.

Call me crazy, but it sure looks like the Captivator pair had more "best so far" type comments than the SubmersiveHP. You sure you didn't let your stated preference for sealed stand in the way of the truth in your objective individual scores perfectly recorded in naive and complete honesty at the time of each audition?

By golly - we may have ourselves a budding ported subwoofer fan!


Why o Why am I still up at 2AM on a work night. I need to shut my computer off for a week.

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Old 10-26-2011, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


Greg,

Your a closet ported subwoofer fan. No ninja edits allowed but you should look at your subjective comments on the ported caps...

then your SubmersiveHP comments

Call me crazy, but it sure looks like the Captivator pair had more "best so far" type comments than the SubmersiveHP. You sure you didn't let your stated preference for sealed stand in the way of the truth in your objective individual scores perfectly recorded in naive and complete honesty at the time of each audition?

By golly - we may have ourselves a budding ported subwoofer fan!

Why o Why am I still up at 2AM on a work night. I need to shut my computer off for a week.

There you go again. Best so far on parts of them . And the subm played after. They are fine subs, but I thought overall the submersive was cleaner and let go of notes faster (decay) in kwarnys world. Just one dudes opinion.

Id probably be happy with either
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:46 AM
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With a passive cap, what else is needed besides an amp such as ep4000? Is it plug and play or do i need/have to buy something like the sms-1?
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:02 AM
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I love them with no eq so you can definately amp and forget especially if you like live pa sub sound with 70 hz bump and another big bump at 20 hz. Check out the un eq'ed graph on page 2. It isn't flat, but its more of a live club sound to me on music. For movies that 20hz bump is fun! I immediately loved the sound out of the box uneq'ed as compared to the svs pb13s flatter response. This is a subjective preference though. Some guys definately like the eq'ed sound better. Here is the EQ in my room with the mic2200 knocking down the 70hz hump. That 50hz null in my room happens with all subs. Every single sub at the KC shootout experienced it. It was a 40hz null at Greg's shootout in his room.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post20870193

I bought a DSP3000 amp to try to do more eq work and see if I further like a flatter eq, since the mic2200 is only one band PEQ, and with the DSP3000 I should be able to knock out that 50hz null - but I've not toyed with the DSP settings yet because I'm not savy enough with REW and a friend with the skillset and I haven't connected yet.

I'm still trying to decide if I like EQ or not. I turn on at off my eq pretty regularly with the mic2200 and some stuff I like eq on and some stuff I like it off. The only thing my mic2200 is used for with the 1 band eq is to knock down the 70hz bump a bit. I decided That I prefer the hpf off with my limited EP4000 amp. The HPF cuts frequencies down above the actual roll off point, and I don't really need a HPF outside of test tones that I've ever heard, and so why let my lower tones be cut away?

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Old 10-26-2011, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by blk02bird View Post

With a passive cap, what else is needed besides an amp such as ep4000? Is it plug and play or do i need/have to buy something like the sms-1?

You can get operational with just an amp, but something like an SMS-1 is definitely the icing on the cake. The passive Cap doesn't have a flat response right out of the box. EQ would be suggested to tailor the response to what you might want and the although you can get by without it due to the strength of the driver, the filter below tuning is always a good idea with a ported sub.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:07 AM
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Wonder how a DIY LMS 5400 sub would compare to the Cap And Subm?
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:10 AM
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Wonder how a DIY LMS 5400 sub would compare to the Cap And Subm?

I would expect it fare pretty well if you heavily eq it and feed it a tremendous amount of power.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post

Wonder how a DIY LMS 5400 sub would compare to the Cap And Subm?

lukeamdman has both subs in the same room - here is how he compares them.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20877929

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Old 10-26-2011, 08:46 AM
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Great write up and thoughts. This is just an innocent question. It seems to me that the caps are a major force for HT. For this GTG it seems like the two were used in the comparison. Was there a one for one comparison between the SubMersive HP and a single Cap? Not looking to change minds here. People like different things. Some of the best subs I have ever heard have been ported so I can say for sure that I like the ported sub sound. Not sure if it was this thread or the other but the ported subs I have experience with are the following. Dynaudio Contour sub(12in 400 watts I think). Wilson Audio Watch Dog(12 in 400 watts). JM Labs Sub Utopia Be(16in 1000 watts). And my previous sub, a JM Labs SW900(13.18in 400 watts). So I have heard some ported subs and like them all. I ended up with SubMersive HP. Now does that mean that I dislike the ported sub sound or that I like the sealed sub sound better? No. It means that for me, to get the performance I wanted in the space I had, the SubMersive was the best choice. So I was just wondering if any testes were done between a single cap and a single Submersive. Please don't take this question the wrong way. I can fully understand that these GTG are a TON of work. I was just curious that's all.

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Old 10-26-2011, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


lukeamdman has both subs in the same room - here is how he compares them.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20877929

Archaea can you link to the actual discussion and not the whole jtr thread you thread pusher you?

I forget who the guy in wisconsin was that had multiple submersives but after hearing warpdrv? lms 5400 setup he promptly sold to switch to those. Makes me wonder if I should save and do 4 of those and have someone like eD make me enclosures
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Great write up and thoughts. This is just an innocent question. It seems to me that the caps are a major force for HT. For this GTG it seems like the two were used in the comparison. Was there a one for one comparison between the SubMersive HP and a single Cap? Not looking to change anybodies mind. People like different things. Some of the best subs I have ever heard have been ported so I can say for sure that I like the ported sub sound. Not sure if it was this thread or the other but the ported subs I have experience with are the following. Dynaudio Contour sub(12in 400 watts I think). Wilson Audio Watch Dog(12 in 400 watts). JM Labs Sub Utopia Be(16in 1000 watts). And my previous sub, a JM Labs SW900(13.18in 400 watts). So I have heard some ported subs and like them all. I ended up with SubMersive HP. Now does that mean that I dislike the ported sub sound or that I like the sealed sub sound better? No. It means that for me, to get the performance I wanted in the space I had the SubMersive was the best choice. So I was just wondering if any testes were done between a single cap and a single Submersive. Please don't take this question the wrong way. I can fully understand that these GTG are a TON of work. I was just curious that's all.

No, but I wish we would have had duals of them all!
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:51 AM
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No, but I wish we would have had duals of them all!

Yea, that would have been fun .

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Old 10-26-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Archaea can you link to the actual discussion and not the whole jtr thread you thread pusher you?

I forget who the guy in wisconsin was that had multiple submersives but after hearing warpdrv? lms 5400 setup he promptly sold to switch to those. Makes me wonder if I should save and do 4 of those and have someone like eD make me enclosures

Without a doubt, save your pennies for four LMS Ultra 5400 18" drivers. They are the absolute cream of the crop if you're looking for sealed. You'll need a ton of power, but one or two of those LG amp clones from China will power them sufficiently. Four of the drivers, plus enclosures, plus amp(s) will cost more than two Caps or Submersive HPs, but not so much more. If you can afford it, do so.
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