KC High End Subwoofer Blind Audition Interest Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 386 Old 01-06-2012, 12:45 PM
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Do you guys plan on getting pics of meet?
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post #272 of 386 Old 01-06-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Because the klipsch subs likely won't be blind auditioned and will be setup the day before and ready to play right at the start of the day as a reference for the room - we are really only blind auditioning five subs at this time.

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Perhaps Submersives as a hopeful possibility. Husker's DIY 18" x4 setup a hopeful possibility. We do have time for another set of subs or two if found.

I might be able to help out with the SubMersive HP's. Any chance you would be able to pick up a pair from a local freight terminal to keep shipping costs reasonable?

I'm still looking into how much of a circus act things become for me to divert my return trip from CES through KC for the GTG. I figure Jeff could probably use someone to help split the drive back anyway.

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post #273 of 386 Old 01-06-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by luke kamp View Post

i really liked those orbit shifters jeff

what?
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post #274 of 386 Old 01-06-2012, 04:28 PM
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Vacation time turned in, just in case work decides to make Saturday mandatory.

Now I gotta figure out how to get the 18.T Duos into my car...

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post #275 of 386 Old 01-06-2012, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ken!

I don't own any of those movies, but I'll see what's available at redbox. One of the percy clips might be on the 2nd scuba steve demo disc, is it the guys at the museum or something and some security guards morph into a hydra? I really didn't dig that clip when I watched it. It's too much identical sounding bass for like 3 minutes -- if that's what I'm thinking of. I don't know the others but will try to check them out. Do you do the spec lab graphs yourself or find a link for them?

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post #276 of 386 Old 01-06-2012, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I might be able to help out with the SubMersive HP's. Any chance you would be able to pick up a pair from a local freight terminal to keep shipping costs reasonable?

I'm still looking into how much of a circus act things become for me to divert my return trip from CES through KC for the GTG. I figure Jeff could probably use someone to help split the drive back anyway.

I'd be GLAD to help do so. I can borrow my buddies SUV, put the seats down and easily fit those in the cargo area!...Just let me know...

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post #277 of 386 Old 01-07-2012, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Do you guys plan on getting pics of meet?

I think technosponge may grab some pictures -- he did at the huskeromaha meet as well. But he is also very likely wanting to be a part of the auditioning, so they may only be setup shots.

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post #278 of 386 Old 01-07-2012, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Thanks Ken!

I don't own any of those movies, but I'll see what's available at redbox. One of the percy clips might be on the 2nd scuba steve demo disc, is it the guys at the museum or something and some security guards morph into a hydra? I really didn't dig that clip when I watched it. It's too much identical sounding bass for like 3 minutes -- if that's what I'm thinking of. I don't know the others but will try to check them out. Do you do the spec lab graphs yourself or find a link for them?

The Hydra attack scene in Percy Jackson extends quite low in LF (here's the 3 min speclab cap).
I believe it's after the Hydra transformation.

I do these speclab caps myself from the SW out and I gathered most of them here in flickr, mostly include a 6-digit time code in the lengthy name.

Your effort to hold the GTG for the blind test is admirable.
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post #279 of 386 Old 01-07-2012, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Actually Archaea volunteered to burn discs and mail them to whomever for $10. Just have to PM him! J

you toolbox - no I didn't. haha.

I guess I don't mind, but this line is ALLLLLL Husker, I never even mentioned anything like this to him. I said I would give a copy of the demo clips we are using to everyone who came. When I asked Husker what was up he said he was starting a "buy a new amp fund for Archaea" with the idea - he seems to think I'm being too cheap running an EP4000 or Inuke with the Cap pair. ha... they are plenty loud for my room..

At any rate - nothing like getting volunteered. I've already got about 10 pms to which I've not yet individually responded because I don't yet know my course or timeline or anything.

I do plan to make a normal set top watchable bluray with these clips hopefully - maybe with some nice menus, or maybe for the meet just a one click button that plays through all --- but I have some software learning to do. So far I've just been mostly cutting chapter long clips out of DVDs and BluRays I own (some 500+) using DVD Fab, and using TSMuxor to shorten the clips down to about a minute or minute and a half of the LFE related material of choice without altering original audio or video quality. Those two software pieces are easy - just require time, and they do seem to have some glitches on occassion and make a bad clip with either video synch problems or audio problems -- weird cause when I remake the clip it works fine usually. Unfortunately, I've not found easy BluRay authoring software that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. So right now the clips are just m2ts files playable on any HTPC with full DDHD and DTSMA sound but not yet authored onto a bluray. I do plan to try to learn the bluray authoring, but regular free software I've explored is either 1) complicated (as in using numberical values to calculate where menu buttons go like some sort of excel chart math test from hell) or 2) makes me lose HD Audio for the plug in play versions like CyberDVD suite. I'm investigating this stuff further. If anyone has any ideas for something to try let me know. I'm not opposed to sending out discs to those interested, but give me some time to have a final worthwhile demo product that's worth sending out. In the meantime check out the scuba steve disc...It's awesome, does everything well. It is full of things other than LFE clips, but the whole disc is very well done.

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post #280 of 386 Old 01-07-2012, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The DVD version of master and commander is truly much better than the bluray version. It's a noticable difference on the caps at the current 15hz tune...I'm going to use the DVD version, but the video isn't playing smooth for some reason on my cut at this time...arghhhh...it's always something.

Edit: Got it fixed!

Man does that sound good!

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post #281 of 386 Old 01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

you toolbox - no I didn't. haha.

I guess I don't mind, but this line is ALLLLLL Husker, I never even mentioned anything like this to him. I said I would give a copy of the demo clips we are using to everyone who came. When I asked Husker what was up he said he was starting a "buy a new amp fund for Archaea" with the idea - he seems to think I'm being too cheap running an EP4000 or Inuke with the Cap pair. ha... they are plenty loud for my room..

At any rate - nothing like getting volunteered. I've already got about 10 pms to which I've not yet individually responded because I don't yet know my course or timeline or anything.

At first I thought this was probably a jape (considering the source) but I bit on it anyway. No need to reply to the PM ...

Wonder how many copies Scuba Steve has sold?

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post #282 of 386 Old 01-09-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The DVD version of master and commander is truly much better than the bluray version. It's a noticable difference on the caps at the current 15hz tune...I'm going to use the DVD version, but the video isn't playing smooth for some reason on my cut at this time...arghhhh...it's always something.

Edit: Got it fixed!

Man does that sound good!

Be sure to use the DTS track on the M&C DVD. BTW, does anyone recall if we were listening to the BluRay version at the Omaha Subfest?

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post #283 of 386 Old 01-09-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post


Be sure to use the DTS track on the M&C DVD. BTW, does anyone recall if we were listening to the BluRay version at the Omaha Subfest?

Michael will remember, but I thought after looking at the sweeps we went with the dvd version.
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post #284 of 386 Old 01-09-2012, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Be sure to use the DTS track on the M&C DVD. BTW, does anyone recall if we were listening to the BluRay version at the Omaha Subfest?

We definately have the DTS track from the DVD of M&C on tap and it will be used instead of the BluRay. It sounds much better - I auditioned them back and forth several times and agree with the general sentiment that the BluRay track is neutered in an obvious way.

There have been some requests to keep vendor interaction limited as much as possible during setup. We will follow the same setup procedure for all subs. We've got good measuring equipment (omnimics) and some reasonable expertise to set the equipment up right. The two vendors attending will be wallflowers in that regard. These requests are sensible and I believe both Jeff and Mark recognize this fact, and will oblige, but I'm laying it out for anyone else who has concerns.

Luke Kamp offered to help me do setup and teardown and measuring. We won't participate then in the blind voting obviously - but will still enjoy listening to the subs! We may want a third person. Do I have any more volunteers?

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post #285 of 386 Old 01-09-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Be sure to use the DTS track on the M&C DVD. BTW, does anyone recall if we were listening to the BluRay version at the Omaha Subfest?

I had the Blu-ray clip available, but we used the DTS track from the DVD.
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post #286 of 386 Old 01-09-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Tesseract67 volunteered through PM to assist with setup and teardown between rounds. Thanks man! Three ought to do it I think.

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post #287 of 386 Old 01-10-2012, 11:25 AM
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Is anyone interested to hear what the subwoofers can do? If so when could we squeeze that into the schedule?
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post #288 of 386 Old 01-10-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Luke Kamp offered to help me do setup and teardown and measuring. We won't participate then in the blind voting obviously - but will still enjoy listening to the subs! We may want a third person. Do I have any more volunteers?

I can help move subwoofers around.
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post #289 of 386 Old 01-10-2012, 12:45 PM
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Does anyone coming to the GTG have an MFW-15 box (for the complete subwoofer from av123) I could have? I have one of the original MFW-15's that were shipped on a pallet and it doesn't have the best shipping box.

Tesseract, can you get the box from your old MFW-15?
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post #290 of 386 Old 01-10-2012, 04:05 PM
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Sorry, I just called the owner... nogo.

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post #291 of 386 Old 01-10-2012, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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i have two cats and they are killing me. they are partying hard - playing fighting, jumping, climbing banging....so much for silence when running audyssey. we'll see how it turns out. running a pass to compare to my original pass the other night last night. I'm gonna blame those cats if things look crazy.


edit: and on round 7 he's standing right by the mic right at the moment ---looking at me as if to say -- aren't you going to chase me away?

double edit: at the end of the round I got up and he high tailed it out of there like his tail was on fire. He knew he'd get a swat and was doing it anyway. Little crazy cat.

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post #292 of 386 Old 01-10-2012, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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All things considered I think the Audyssey charts were actually VERY similar at least in the subwoofer levels. Here are two runs done 5 nights apart - the first set was done on 1-5-12. The second set was done tonight - 1-10-11. Higher frequencies were more varied, but I'm not sure we'll be any better with other tools in that regard? The only graph that shows much variance (and not even that much there) is when I added 6dB to each sub LFE out. I don't know why that particular graph shows more deviance. My room layout might have changed somewhat because I've been cleaning up and moving things around, but the subs are in the same position in the room as are the tower speakers from the first run. Most of the stuff moved around would be small boxes and such. I sure as heck didn't have the exact same eight placements of the mic during the Audyssey calibration tonight. They were pretty similar, but not exact because I didn't tape anything out for placement - yet the graphs are still very close. I also had cats running around all over the place downstairs, fighting and banging around upstairs when they chased each other upstairs, so I think this is pretty viable. What do you guys think?


First Pic:
Just how Audyssey calibrated out of the box - no changes made except change speaker crossover to 100hz across the board, sub LPF at 120hz in AVR.





Second Pic:
Turn off that darn Dynamic EQ that overpowers my room with Bass and Highs at any low listening volume (say -25dB on AVR)




Third Pic:
Dynamic EQ off, and each sub gain turned up +6dB. This is the one that is off slightly, I'm not sure why? It's still close enough to likely be mostly inaudible to the human ear.


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post #293 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 06:31 AM
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Just wanted to say I have been really enjoying following this thread. As someone that is in the market for what I consider a higher end new sub (s), I have found the Kansas City Meet Thread and the HuskerOmaha meet thread invaluable! I really appreciate what you guys have done and are doing! From what I have read, the Captivator and Submersive HP are very, very solid subs. It will be exciting to see everyone's opinion on the new Cap S and the Orbit Shifters. And if a Teraform XL makes the trip - WOW. I know it's late in the game, and time and resources are scarce, but it would have been awesome to see the ED A7-900 in the mix. Also, my dealer has also been pushing the DefTech Trinity - having 2 SC References now, that would have been interesting to see how the Trinity played with these other big boys on the block. Can't have everything though, and what you guys are providing to the audio community is awesome. I've learned a great deal thanks to your work! Thanks so much!

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post #294 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

From what I have read, the Captivator and Submersive HP are very, very solid subs. It will be exciting to see everyone's opinion on the new Cap S and the Orbit Shifters. And if a Teraform XL makes the trip - WOW. I know it's late in the game, and time and resources are scarce, but it would have been awesome to see the ED A7-900 in the mix. Also, my dealer has also been pushing the DefTech Trinity - having 2 SC References now, that would have been interesting to see how the Trinity played with these other big boys on the block. Can't have everything though, and what you guys are providing to the audio community is awesome. I've learned a great deal thanks to your work! Thanks so much!


I think mastermaybe had a older generation Trinity and recently got the Cap passive. He has a thread with a small review comparing them.
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post #295 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 06:59 AM
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Yep, I sure did and do, lol. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1347415

No shame in nabbing a Trinity at a solid price. Great sub.

James

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post #296 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 03:46 PM
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Yep, I sure did and do, lol. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1347415

No shame in nabbing a Trinity at a solid price. Great sub.

James

Thanks mastermaybe - I had forgotten about this as I have actually read through this before. Again - thanks for all of your work and I look forward to reading about the results of the upcoming meet!

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post #297 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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oh boy...


http://www.matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

mabye we should put those klipsch subs in the mix afterall...



Wouldn't we all feel like fools!!!!!!!!!!

Somehow I really doubt that would happen with subwoofers - but this surely will be interesting.

What do you guys think we should do with the scoring system...
1-10 - bad to awesome
1-5- average to awesome
1-3 - good, great, awesome

I'm all for making it easy to judge. I'm almost thinking based on the idea that this is all blind and I don't want people to get lost in the weeds saying this one deserves an 8.5 and then later thinking no --- I need to knock it down a notch or two cause this one sounds so much better -- that we could avoid all that by making it a 3 rung scoring tree --- good, great, awesome. Then with how many blind voters we will have...(looks like it might be a dozen +) we'd have our scores and there would be less of the ole' should I give it a 7.5 or an 8.... well there might be one better so I'm going to give it a 6.5 etc.

You could pretty easily determine if something sounds good, sounds great, or sounds AWESOME in your own opinion without really trying to reserve judgement for later, and the differences would come out in the end with so many voters.


But then good, great, awesome doesn't give any room for poor or below expectations -- so perhaps a five count score run is appropriate. Should we even hear poor with duals of everything? I sure hope not!

1 - bad sound heard
2 - meh, wasn't feeling it
3 - OK or average
4 - great
5 - Awesome!


Thoughts?

Keep in mind we are going to have a lot of short clips. Like around 25 1 minute'ish movie clips + a song list (probably not graded individually on songs) We can't have a real indepth scoring system because by the time someone figures out a score the next clip will be half way through if the scoring system is too complicated. (Also tabbing up the scores sucks when they are using half numbers and handwriting in little boxes cause you sometimes can't read it). I'm going to work on the score sheet some tonight and I'll post a draft up.

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post #298 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 08:10 PM
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That is a great read...

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post #299 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 08:23 PM
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Archaea-I'm all for the shortened idea..makes sense.

Regarding Jeffs earlier query, yes, it would be fun to crank the OS or whatever is capable down there, but after the blind listening is over...

Is there interest in seeing/bringing the LG clone amp at all?
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post #300 of 386 Old 01-11-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to see that little demon (soon to be responsible for "The Great Omaha Fire of 2012").

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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