Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread
gigging's Avatar gigging 07:13 AM 05-19-2013
For budget I'll say $2500 or less. I'm curious as to go with the "s" series or "v" series in the psa line up. Also, should I go with the 15's or the 30's version?

steve nn's Avatar steve nn 07:14 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
The XV30f definitely offers more placement flexibility. And let's face it.....popping off the grill and having twin 15" drivers visible from the seating position is kinda cool too.

Yeah that’s some nice eye candy to be sure.
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 07:16 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

I doubt he's going to tell you what is coming up. Get a couple of xv30's, put them in front of you, ports towards your pants smile.gif jk kind of.

In regards to the upcoming announcements, just give us a couple days. Jim and I have been working on endless details for approximately two years trying to get this design optimized. We would prefer to give it a proper introduction on the website rather than rushing out a clumsy forum post about it.

Thanks,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 07:19 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigging View Post

For budget I'll say $2500 or less. I'm curious as to go with the "s" series or "v" series in the psa line up. Also, should I go with the 15's or the 30's version?

How large is the listening room and are there any large openings to other areas of the home?

Generally(and there are always exceptions) dual XS30s would be better in say 3500 cu-ft or less. The dual XV30f better in the larger room environments.

You may be able to spend much less and still reach all of your performance expectations though. Have you calibrated the system yet(either manually with a SPL meter or using an auto setup routine like Audyssey)? If so, how close to reference level do you push the most demanding source material(action oriented DVDs)?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Saturn94's Avatar Saturn94 07:30 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

....Subs, the more I learn the more indecisive I become.

Oh boy, can I relate to that! biggrin.gif
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 07:31 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigging View Post

For budget I'll say $2500 or less. I'm curious as to go with the "s" series or "v" series in the psa line up. Also, should I go with the 15's or the 30's version?

We're back to the Benjamins and what you're wanting. Within your budget, a pair of XV30f's would be awesome but will you get a smooth room response with only two? Are you willing to buy two and later add a third? With your speaker system, I can guarantee you'll want three.

How much impact bass are you going want? Do you want the full, kick in the chest, "Full Monte" or will you be happy with the occasional room shock. It's all about what you want vs what you're able to budget for.

For our room, I'm disjointed on what to choose. The WAF is a strong force indeed and three is the max this force will allow and the subs must do their part to "blend" with the decor. The only thing I can come up with is a mix of manufacture subs and from an aesthetic POV, a copy of the XV15f will marry up well with the Epic, CF-3.

The point, just saying, stating the obvious, budget, aesthetics, needs and WAF, all guide our choices and in the end are questions that need to be answered in order to decide what subwoofers to choose.

Maybe two XV15's coupled with one XV30f? Maybe three XV15's? Maybe a XV30f and a XV15 with a third sub to be added later? Maybe two XV15's and a third to added later? Maybe three XS15's?

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gigging's Avatar gigging 07:33 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

How large is the listening room and are there any large openings to other areas of the home?

Generally(and there are always exceptions) dual XS30s would be better in say 3500 cu-ft or less. The dual XV30f better in the larger room environments.

You may be able to spend much less and still reach all of your performance expectations though. Have you calibrated the system yet(either manually with a SPL meter or using an auto setup routine like Audyssey)? If so, how close to reference level do you push the most demanding source material(action oriented DVDs)?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

My room is 2050^3 and is sealed off with no openings. I currently do not have a subwoofer, I'm just now getting my first system put together. It's a 100% dedicated movie room. I would like to go down to the single digits if possible. Thanks so much for your time and help.
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 08:09 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigging View Post

My room is 2050^3 and is sealed off with no openings. I currently do not have a subwoofer, I'm just now getting my first system put together. It's a 100% dedicated movie room. I would like to go down to the single digits if possible. Thanks so much for your time and help.


A sealed option would work best here. The XS15 and XS30 will both get down to the 7-10hz range in this room environment. The Klipsch system you have is very dynamic and you need to be sure the subwoofer system can "keep up". I've gone through a few Klipsch systems in the past 15-20 years and I can tell you from experience...if the subwoofer loses composure or simply stops getting louder(compresses) it compromises the benefits of having the efficient speakers in the first place..smile.gif

I see three options, dual XS15s, single XS30, dual XS30. The extension and overall sound quality will be very similar in all three options. The determining factor is output capabilities.

Dual XS15s will be very close to a single XS30 when you consider the entire operating bandwidth (7-100hz). The dual XS15s will have a slight edge <30hz...but very small and I'm not sure it would even be audible. This assumes the dual XS15s would be spread out a bit, one in each front corner of the system layout for example. I'd estimate a clean 118-127dB down to the 20hz range here. Headroom will gradually taper a little under that...but you should have a nearly optimal room gain signature that will really help. Either of these options would perform excellent on just about anything you could through at it....even at very loud levels. However, I can't deny that a dual XS30 system would have advantages. First, compared to the single XS30 option duals will give you the POTENTIAL for smoother, more even bass coverage at your seating positions. The second advantage will be sheer output. The dual XS30s will give you about 4.5 to 5dB more headroom. This probably wouldn't provide much benefit in the mid and upper bass though as the other options (dual xs15, single xs30) will already be in the 121-130dB range here. However, in the deepest bass(7-20hz) at very loud levels(reference level for example) there will be a relatively small percentage of film material that could benefit from the dual xs30s. You are entering the "diminishing returns" stage a bit though. Lastly, dual xs30s would always be coasting and would almost never approach their limits. Think of it like this....if a single XS30 amp was required to produce 300w to reach a given output level, having dual XS30s means the amps will produce about 1/4 of that power (75 watts each)to reach the same output levels. So the system longevity tends to increase a good bit.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 11:12 AM 05-19-2013
Thank you Sir for your participation in this forum, and also with me personally, this goes out to Jim as well. I was an early adopter to the PSA product line and it was the Customer Service that eventually made my decision to go with PSA and that was later reinforced by the sound of PSA subs, they are in a class of their own and should be a reference to which other subs are evaluated. Thank you my friends for all you have done and continue to do.
Best Regards, Jeffrey Nordi wink.gif
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 11:42 AM 05-19-2013
Earlier I read a question regarding the mixing of sealed and vented subs. Will sealed and vented subs, of close capability, play and get along well with each other. As an example, two XS15's coupled with a XV30f? Or is one best served going with three XS15's and calling it a day?

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steve nn's Avatar steve nn 11:53 AM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Earlier I read a question regarding the mixing of sealed and vented subs. Will sealed and vented subs, of close capability, play and get along well with each other. As an example, two XS15's coupled with a XV30f?

It can be done but in general no. One will drag the other down at certain freq levels. There are ways to try to compensate, but it’s a tricky proposition at best imo/experience. Cancelations..
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 12:34 PM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Earlier I read a question regarding the mixing of sealed and vented subs. Will sealed and vented subs, of close capability, play and get along well with each other. As an example, two XS15's coupled with a XV30f? Or is one best served going with three XS15's and calling it a day?

-

In my experience and talking with Tom it is not recommended, I originally had a XV15 and shortly bought my second, I really liked the XV15s and then PSA came out with the XS30 not a week after I had my dual XV15s, I wanted to keep one XV15 and get one XS30 and was advised against this, take into consideration I'm talking about the same sub company and still it was ill advised. So I eneded up with the dual XS30s. In your case having dual XS15s, you might get away with having the two 15s upfront and the XV30F in the rear of your listening spot, I still think it would take some serious EQing to get the cohesion needed without the cancelling effect and serious sub localization. I still think getting three sealed subs to work (play) together is going to be difficult, correct me if I'm wrong. I would go for a single XV30F to start and possibly after consulting with Tom and Jim adding an XV15, you may be happy with a single XV30F, I doubt it though if you're like me wink.gif Have you considered dual XS30s? I'm really impressed with the XV30F and it's the only sub I haven't heard out of the PSA line up. If you're considering 3 XS15s, why not splurge and get the fourth, problem solved or better yet dual XV30Fs biggrin.gif You probably got nothing from this essay I have just written, I know I didn't. eek.gif Fire an email to PSA and you will get the correct solution, quaranteed.
Cheers Jeff
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 01:26 PM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

Have you considered dual XS30s? I'm really impressed with the XV30F and it's the only sub I haven't heard out of the PSA line up. If you're considering 3 XS15s, why not splurge and get the fourth, problem solved or better yet dual XV30Fs biggrin.gif You probably got nothing from this essay I have just written, I know I didn't. :eek.f

One gets from a missive what they want and what you shared, helped. WAF eliminates the possibility of dual XS30's and the WAF says I need the smaller size of sealed units and if I could get away with it, I could try to sneak the XV30f, under the radar. eek.gif...tongue.gif

Currently we have three subs so I shouldn't have trouble integrating three XS15's but a fourth one would be a non-starter. The WAF is a powerful force indeed. Thanks for the thoughts.
mp5475's Avatar mp5475 04:39 PM 05-19-2013
Question for Tom and anyone who knows. I have three xv 15s. Was thinking about one more for smoother response(have odd shaped room), eventually. Would xv30f be close enough to xv15 that I won't have phase problems and make things worse? I love that xv30f look. like Tom said, I won't mind looking at two 15 inch woofers.
basshead81's Avatar basshead81 05:15 PM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Question for Tom and anyone who knows. I have three xv 15s. Was thinking about one more for smoother response(have odd shaped room), eventually. Would xv30f be close enough to xv15 that I won't have phase problems and make things worse? I love that xv30f look. like Tom said, I won't mind looking at two 15 inch woofers.

there would be no phase issues between the xv15 and xv30f...both are ported subs with the same port tune.
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 05:32 PM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

there would be no phase issues between the xv15 and xv30f...both are ported subs with the same port tune.


That;s true, the XV30s are just a bigger version of the XV15 in most regards.

If you do decide to order MP5475 be sure to email me first (support@powersoundaudio.com) We'll definitely try to work in a bit of a "returning customer discount" for someone going on their 4th product from us!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 05:36 PM 05-19-2013
Also, if I've missed any questions here please forward them to my support box.

Thanks,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
mp5475's Avatar mp5475 05:37 PM 05-19-2013
Cool. Thx.
dominguez1's Avatar dominguez1 08:04 PM 05-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Earlier I read a question regarding the mixing of sealed and vented subs. Will sealed and vented subs, of close capability, play and get along well with each other. As an example, two XS15's coupled with a XV30f? Or is one best served going with three XS15's and calling it a day?

-

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post


It can be done but in general no. One will drag the other down at certain freq levels. There are ways to try to compensate, but it’s a tricky proposition at best imo/experience. Cancelations..

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post


In my experience and talking with Tom it is not recommended, I originally had a XV15 and shortly bought my second, I really liked the XV15s and then PSA came out with the XS30 not a week after I had my dual XV15s, I wanted to keep one XV15 and get one XS30 and was advised against this, take into consideration I'm talking about the same sub company and still it was ill advised. So I eneded up with the dual XS30s. In your case having dual XS15s, you might get away with having the two 15s upfront and the XV30F in the rear of your listening spot, I still think it would take some serious EQing to get the cohesion needed without the cancelling effect and serious sub localization. I still think getting three sealed subs to work (play) together is going to be difficult, correct me if I'm wrong. I would go for a single XV30F to start and possibly after consulting with Tom and Jim adding an XV15, you may be happy with a single XV30F, I doubt it though if you're like me wink.gif Have you considered dual XS30s? I'm really impressed with the XV30F and it's the only sub I haven't heard out of the PSA line up. If you're considering 3 XS15s, why not splurge and get the fourth, problem solved or better yet dual XV30Fs biggrin.gif You probably got nothing from this essay I have just written, I know I didn't. eek.gif Fire an email to PSA and you will get the correct solution, quaranteed.
Cheers Jeff

Generally speaking, I would agree with the above. Typically, a lot of time is required with the proper EQ equipment to get ported and sealed to play nicely. There would have to be some compelling reason that you would want to mix the two, instead of just getting another sub of the same design.

 

Having said that, in my experience, and particularly in my room, I've found that ported subs seem to shake the couch more and are more tactile than sealed in the 15-25hz or so range (if I had to guess). I had an all sealed setup (quads) and my FR was as straight as an arrow.

 

In my buddy's HT, I had always admired the way ported subs sounded and felt in his room, and he was selling them, so I bought them. I was able to integrate them into my room (after a lot of trial and error), and the result was fantastic. I had roughly the same FR between my sealed HT and my ported/sealed combo, but the ported subs completely added a new dimension that my sealed could not recreate, no matter how I adjusted their FR. Again, my room...it may not translate to yours.

 

My suggestion would be, if you do have an opportunity to demo both capable ported and sealed setups in your room, I highly recommend you try it out. You may end up like me and have both designs, and get the best of both worlds. smile.gif


BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 08:25 PM 05-19-2013
Thanks. smile.gif
stm69's Avatar stm69 01:58 PM 05-20-2013
Hi Jevan,

Where are you located in Southern Ohio? I'm in the Cincy area. Have a setup in a ~6000 cu/ft basement, concrete slab over carpet with 2 XV30's. Similar conditions to what you described in a prior post.

Welcome to come by for a listen. Everything's temp placed as this is a build in progress so stuff can be moved around, etc.
JuEv0splash's Avatar JuEv0splash 08:20 PM 05-20-2013
Took Tom's advice and ordered an xs15 today. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long biggrin.gif
pretsam's Avatar pretsam 10:14 PM 05-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by stm69 View Post

Hi Jevan,

Where are you located in Southern Ohio? I'm in the Cincy area. Have a setup in a ~6000 cu/ft basement, concrete slab over carpet with 2 XV30's. Similar conditions to what you described in a prior post.

Welcome to come by for a listen. Everything's temp placed as this is a build in progress so stuff can be moved around, etc.

I am right in NKY, I have 2 XS30s in a very large open room.
lsdec's Avatar lsdec 10:59 PM 05-20-2013
Do the PSA subs have a high pass filter?

Wait, nm I don't think it has outputs.

I'm now eager for the announcements to come because I just bought the XDA-2 DAC / digital preamp and am running my current sub via high pass filter.

I need sub #2 to do the same.
jevansoh's Avatar jevansoh 12:53 AM 05-21-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by stm69 View Post

Hi Jevan,

Where are you located in Southern Ohio? I'm in the Cincy area. Have a setup in a ~6000 cu/ft basement, concrete slab over carpet with 2 XV30's. Similar conditions to what you described in a prior post.

Welcome to come by for a listen. Everything's temp placed as this is a build in progress so stuff can be moved around, etc.

Hi there and thanks for the invite!

I'm in the Portsmouth area, so a few hours from you, but we're both right on the river, eh? wink.gif

Have you measured your response?

Do you get any tactile feel? How close is your MLP to your subs and where are your subs currently located?

If I get to Cincy any time soon, I'll PM you and maybe can bring my measuring gear.

I'm waiting on Tom's new announcement this week, but I'm thinking more and more about trying to add a ported sub to the mix and see if it can be done in my room (mixing the two sealed Empire's I have with an XV30f) because I really want that tactile sensation/couch shaking.

Obviously, with the size rooms we have and with our rooms having concrete floors, we aren't gonna shake the floors, but I've heard of others with big rooms and concrete floors having setups that still get their pants flapping.

Would love to talk to you more about your setup, observations, what you had before the XV30's, etc.

Thanks again for the invite and I look forward to speaking with you more soon.

--Jason
richard11's Avatar richard11 04:05 PM 05-21-2013
More announcements to come? Reminds me of this... wink.gif
Quote:
Power Sound Audio designs, develops, and assembles high quality loudspeakers and subwoofers for home theater environments.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/about-us
Jim Cutter's Avatar Jim Cutter 04:56 PM 05-21-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuEv0splash View Post

Took Tom's advice and ordered an xs15 today. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long biggrin.gif

Hopefully it will work as well for you as my dual XS15's work for me, I absolutely love these subs! biggrin.gif
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 08:24 PM 05-21-2013
Website update.

More to add tomorrow including details for a trade-up offer to any current Power-X owner.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/triax


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 08:39 PM 05-21-2013
......eek.gif

Now that is going kick some serious Martin Logan butt and looks like it's ready to tangle with Paradigm's Sub 2 and give them a full fledged clinic.

...eek.gif

Am I on target or getting carried away? Congrats on such a wonderful offering.

Question:

Would a room be happy with just one of those? I ask because of the need for room smoothing and something that powerful (4,000w RMS) would need a thirty amp breaker installed.

Oh my gosh!

-
basshead81's Avatar basshead81 08:43 PM 05-21-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Website update.

More to add tomorrow including details for a trade-up offer to any current Power-X owner.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/triax


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

OMFG that sub looks AWSOME!!
Tags: Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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