Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 103 - AVS Forum
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post #3061 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 08:24 AM
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Just think a couple of years ago you would have to go with a outboard amp with no DSP for the manufacture and no other features if you wanted over 1200 watts.

Yeah aint that the truth!
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Na I say PSA sticks with 15" subs minimum...now if they up the ante to 18" or even 21" to compete with the DIY market that would be sweet too.

As I’m sure you know, Tom used to be into DIY big-time. A great background in part for starting your own SW company. 18’s 21”s and 15” minimum, I duno man. Yikes! eek.gif

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post #3062 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 08:25 AM
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I've placed an order for XS30 and I'm so excited! wohoo! biggrin.gif


Congratulations, You'll love it. smile.gif

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post #3063 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 09:22 AM
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Man, that Triax looks sexy. Too bad I don't have the room for it (unless I can convince my wife that it's a coffee table). ;-)


I just talked to Tom, and I am really leaning towards two XV30f for my nearly finished, dedicated man-cave (his recommendation as well, btw). The room will be used primarily for movies, so I'm envisioning two of these beasts behind my false wall and AT screen. They are starting to ship, so I am looking forward to hearing what folks say about them.
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post #3064 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

10 and 12" subs is mamby pamby territory...PSA does not want to go there! biggrin.gif

Besides If ya want a good sealed sub get a xs15, with its new footprint its fairly small for a 15" sub and will work great for a 2ch system.

Yep. I am not sure it would make sense from a margin standpoint given the reasonably-priced XS15. Man I really love this company. I hope they do whatever it takes to provide value without sacrificing the business so they can fill the Epik void.

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post #3065 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 10:01 AM
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Front firing vs down firing?

I posted this question in the sub section, but I also wanted feedback from PSA owners since I'm seriously considering one of their subs.

Are there any performance differences between front firing and down firing, all else being equal? Specifically, is localization more of an issue with front firing than down firing? I've heard down firing reduces the level of higher harmonics, but is the difference audible?

I currently have a down firing SVS cylinder sub (16-46PC+) crossed over at 80 and have absolutely no issues with localization. A friend has a front firing SVS sealed sub (SB13) and has an issue with localization when crossed over at 80. If it matters, he set up his using Audyssey and I only used an SPL meter (no EQ or room correction of any kind). Is the reason for the difference the fact that his is front firing and mine is down firing?

I'd appreciate feedback from PSA owners about their experience with PSA front firing and down firing subs.

Thanks. smile.gif

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post #3066 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 10:12 AM
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These subs look awesome! If I were moving to a bigger place any time soon I would be all over these!
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post #3067 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kesando View Post

These subs look awesome! If I were moving to a bigger place any time soon I would be all over these!

That brings up a good point. Who plans on buying this monster sub? Whoever you are, you are a lucky fella!
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post #3068 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lsdec View Post

That brings up a good point. Who plans on buying this monster sub? Whoever you are, you are a lucky fella!

I'm getting two for my gameroom.

They will replace:

3 XV15's
2 SVS PB12+/2's
1 SVS PB12+

I should get tons of floor space back and equivalent or better performance

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #3069 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I'm getting two for my gameroom.

They will replace:

3 XV15's
2 SVS PB12+/2's
1 SVS PB12+

I should get tons of floor space back and equivalent or better performance

You should get a pretty good trade in and then if you can sell the others. You might almost break even...

ShaunH
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post #3070 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 01:02 PM
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You had all those subs running together eek.gif

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post #3071 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

I wonder if this is the same amp that JTR and Seaton uses?

Tom??

Do you think THIS sub might be good for my room now, or should I look at selling my Empire's and going w/ two XV30f's??

I've been looking at the JTR Captivator S2 for the last few days at $2999 plus shipping, even though I'll have to save up a bit since my budget is really $2000 right this second, but this looks like it could absolutely give the S2 a run for its money!!

I can't wait to see a pic of the driver and some measurements!

Maybe PSA actually DOES have a driver for my almost 5000 cu ft concrete floor room! biggrin.gif

--Jason

We'll be updating the web page over the next few days. I was hoping to get the wood veneer images and measurement charts up today. We had a pretty big shipping day though(just loaded the last truck a few minutes ago) so we might not get to this until tomorrow. Driver pictures will follow soon.

A single Triax will have some advantages over the dual XV30f. Deeper extension, much smaller enclosure size (1 triax versus dual XV30f), and a bit more output too. If the enclosure size isn't a priority for you it really comes down to the extension difference and the slight edge in output for the Triax. The advantage for the dual XV30f subwoofer option is you have the potential to smooth the bass coverage a bit at the seating positions with careful placement.

At the pre-order pricing this is almost a toss-up really. If you have experienced a big improvement in your room when optimizing dual subs...I think I'd lean toward the XV30f option.

If you order after the pre-order is over...I'd definitely go with the dual XV30f as you'll be saving $640 for nearly the same overall performance.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #3072 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Fantastic! Love it Tom, great work. I also like the fact that this is the first the Prism series. biggrin.gif I wish you the best with the new series, can't wait to experience them for myself. eek.gif


Thanks Gorilla83!

Give me a heads up when you have the next big gtg and as long as we aren't in a back order situation we'll send out a Triax for you to try out.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #3073 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Front firing vs down firing?

I posted this question in the sub section, but I also wanted feedback from PSA owners since I'm seriously considering one of their subs.

Are there any performance differences between front firing and down firing, all else being equal? Specifically, is localization more of an issue with front firing than down firing? I've heard down firing reduces the level of higher harmonics, but is the difference audible?

I currently have a down firing SVS cylinder sub (16-46PC+) crossed over at 80 and have absolutely no issues with localization. A friend has a front firing SVS sealed sub (SB13) and has an issue with localization when crossed over at 80. If it matters, he set up his using Audyssey and I only used an SPL meter (no EQ or room correction of any kind). Is the reason for the difference the fact that his is front firing and mine is down firing?

I'd appreciate feedback from PSA owners about their experience with PSA front firing and down firing subs.

Thanks. smile.gif

Driver orientation won't make any difference in the localization issues unless the subwoofer was producing an unusual amount of upper frequency harmonics/noise. If you have a tiny cube which can produce 100%(or higher) THD, then yes, this may cause an issue. The sb13 looks to be a solid design so I bet its not harmonic related----just something about the room, seating, and modal patterns. But something like the XV30f with dual front firing 15s? There is no way. The harmonic distortion remains so low this couldn't possible be an issue.

Is is possible the lowpass filter for the SB13u uses a different slope than your processor/receiver?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #3074 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by manonfire View Post

You had all those subs running together eek.gif

Yes and it is bass nirvana but they are all so large!!
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

You should get a pretty good trade in and then if you can sell the others. You might almost break even...

Well, I am trading in the XV15's, moving the PB12+/2's to my living room and probably selling the PB12+.

Really would like to move the XV-15's to the living room as they will fit better but I don't hunk Tom will take SVS subs in as trade smile.gif

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #3075 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Yes and it is bass nirvana but they are all so large!!
Well, I am trading in the XV15's, moving the PB12+/2's to my living room and probably selling the PB12+.

Really would like to move the XV-15's to the living room as they will fit better but I don't hunk Tom will take SVS subs in as trade smile.gif

Rayinist man you have a sub problem smile.gif

Also what speakers are you running?

ShaunH
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post #3076 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 05:02 PM
 
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Also what speakers are you running?

At 5k, we're running.....

(sorry, couldn't resist)
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post #3077 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Driver orientation won't make any difference in the localization issues unless the subwoofer was producing an unusual amount of upper frequency harmonics/noise. If you have a tiny cube which can produce 100%(or higher) THD, then yes, this may cause an issue. The sb13 looks to be a solid design so I bet its not harmonic related----just something about the room, seating, and modal patterns. But something like the XV30f with dual front firing 15s? There is no way. The harmonic distortion remains so low this couldn't possible be an issue.

Is is possible the lowpass filter for the SB13u uses a different slope than your processor/receiver?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks Tom.

I don't know if the crossover slope in my friend's receiver is different than my processor. I'm not even sure what slope my processor uses for the low pass filter (I'll check out the owners manual). He's using a Marantz receiver (don't know the model) and I'm using an Anthem AVM20 v2.xx.

Since audible higher harmonics aren't an issue with the XV30f, would it be safe to say that in terms of localization and blending with my L/R speakers that the XV30f will perform the same as my SVS 16-46PC+ if I put the 30f in the same location (in the corner behind the left front speaker)?

Thanks. smile.gif

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post #3078 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

Rayinist man you have a sub problem smile.gif

Also what speakers are you running?

Lol, I do. I have several other SVS subs in other rooms too.

On that setup the Emptek E55Ti's as fronts, E56Ci center and E55Wi's as surrounds

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #3079 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Thanks Tom.

I don't know if the crossover slope in my friend's receiver is different than my processor. I'm not even sure what slope my processor uses for the low pass filter (I'll check out the owners manual). He's using a Marantz receiver (don't know the model) and I'm using an Anthem AVM20 v2.xx.

Since audible higher harmonics aren't an issue with the XV30f, would it be safe to say that in terms of localization and blending with my L/R speakers that the XV30f will perform the same as my SVS 16-46PC+ if I put the 30f in the same location (in the corner behind the left front speaker)?

Thanks. smile.gif

Usually, yes. There is always the potential for slightly different room interaction because the acoustic centers of the woofers will be slightly different. However the changes in these interactions tend to be minor.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #3080 of 13896 Old 05-23-2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Usually, yes. There is always the potential for slightly different room interaction because the acoustic centers of the woofers will be slightly different. However the changes in these interactions tend to be minor.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks. smile.gif

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post #3081 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 03:30 AM
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I was just browsing Audioholics and noticed they have a preview of the new $8600 Funk Audio 18.2 dual 18 inch sealed sub with 9600 watts of power.

Here are CEA2010 numbers provided by Funk Audio (I summarized them)

20-32hz 116.6
40-63hz 125.1

Here are the CEA2010 numbers provided by PSA for the Triax:

20-31.5hz 116.4
40-63hz 127.1

All of the performance of the Funk audio for less than a third of the price!!!

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
2 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #3082 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I was just browsing Audioholics and noticed they have a preview of the new $8600 Funk Audio 18.2 dual 18 inch sealed sub with 9600 watts of power.

Here are CEA2010 numbers provided by Funk Audio (I summarized them)

20-32hz 116.6
40-63hz 125.1

Here are the CEA2010 numbers provided by PSA for the Triax:

20-31.5hz 116.4
40-63hz 127.1

All of the performance of the Funk audio for less than a third of the price!!!

Dang that will make the Funk Audio fans cringe....
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post #3083 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 07:25 AM
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I don't think funk does any multi driver compensation.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=77

I'm almost sure we factored that in to the Triax(and xs30)

We use 2m rms and I think they do too. So just add 2dB to their data when comparing it to ours(or anything Josh has done).

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post #3084 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

We use 2m rms and I think they do too. So just add 2dB to their data when comparing it to ours(or anything Josh has done)

Hi Tom, from that thread at AH:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/83851-funk-audio-18-2-dual-18%22-sealed-subwoofer-preview-3.html#post945365
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20 hz 17.8% 113.7
25 hz 8.9% 116.6
32 hz 5.0% 119.6
40 hz 10.0% 122.3
50 hz 6.3% 125.3
63 hz 4.4% 127.7
80 hz 1.99% 128.8


http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/83851-funk-audio-18-2-dual-18%22-sealed-subwoofer-preview-4.html#post945439
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Quick question: do those figures represent peak (how Paul Apollonio reported CEA2010 burst measurements) or RMS (how Josh Ricci reports) figures? Either way, looks like quite a power house!
Peak burst measurements. The signal uses a series of tone bursts as per CEA2010.
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post #3085 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 08:36 AM
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still even at that the triax is in the ball park of a 9k sub...thats amazing!
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post #3086 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 08:39 AM
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Just as a PS: while overall performance is likely to be similar (and frankly, utterly over the top in both cases), one big difference is size: the 18.2 measures in at a relatively compact at 21" x 22" x 24", though it does require outboard amplification.
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post #3087 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Just as a PS: while overall performance is likely to be similar (and frankly, utterly over the top in both cases), one big difference is size: the 18.2 measures in at a relatively compact at 21" x 22" x 24", though it does require outboard amplification.

I think that's partly a function of the driver design I get the feeling that driver isn't made for large enclosures. But what I'm surprised about is they where actually able to pack that many pounds of Neodymium at any price. I can't see that sub being much of a money maker. Just from that alone.lol

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post #3088 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 09:21 AM
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But what I'm surprised about is they where actually able to pack that many pounds of Neodymium at any price. I can't see that sub being much of a money maker. Just from that alone.lol
Keep in mind that regarding the "44 pound neodymium motor structure", 90% is steel per one of Mark Kravchenko's posts in that AH thread.
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post #3089 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Keep in mind that regarding the "44 pound neodymium motor structure", 90% is steel per one of Mark Kravchenko's posts in that AH thread.

Ahh okay. thanks Steve I didn't read through all of that thread yet.

ShaunH
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post #3090 of 13896 Old 05-24-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Just as a PS: while overall performance is likely to be similar (and frankly, utterly over the top in both cases), one big difference is size: the 18.2 measures in at a relatively compact at 21" x 22" x 24", though it does require outboard amplification.


if you can get similar performance at 1/3 the cost i believe its a no brainer for 90% of enthusiasts....i would gladly take the larger sub and not have to worry about placement of the amplifier.
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