Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 106 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #3151 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Ah, so it's really going to depend on my room/setup. Of course that means the only way I'm really going to know what will work best for me is to try them out. Perhaps I need to factor in possible return shipping costs into my budget.

I took a look at that review on the Shack site.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/6006-svs-20-39pc-16-hz-tune-db12-2-a.html

It looks pretty good to my uneducated eye. Any thoughts on it?

Here's another option I have considered at the cheap end of the scale. My 16-46PC+ has the original dB12 driver. I understand the current version, dB12.3, is a couple generations newer and is more resistant to bottoming out, and perhaps it also performs better in other ways? I thought maybe trying the new driver, getting an EQ unit to tame peaks combined with experimenting with placement (I'm currently have no EQ or room correction). Thoughts?

smile.gif


Yeah, overall it looks fine, especially considering it is what a 10 year old design? Here is the CEA stuff

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5748-cea-2010-standard-compilation.html

You can see the overall 2010-CEA data and compare it to the data on Josh's site.

When you look at the data for the subwoofers that Ilkka and Josh both measured the results are very close.

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post #3152 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

LOL! Yeah, I saw that too. Where the heck was he keeping that thing? Mine has never been that dusty in the 10 years I've had it (and I rarely dust under there redface.gif ).


In Ilkka's defense I believe almost all/all of the subs he measured where brought to the testing location by their owners on the day they would be measured..smile.gif

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post #3153 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:07 AM
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Just a question for all, just wondering if most level match or gain match subs. Is there really a big difference in sound. Does one have advantages over the other.

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post #3154 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

In Ilkka's defense I believe almost all/all of the subs he measured where brought to the testing location by their owners on the day they would be measured..smile.gif

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So does a thick layer of dust help reduce audible harmonic distortion? (hehehehe......just kidding......sorry, I couldnt resist biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif )

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post #3155 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Yeah, overall it looks fine, especially considering it is what a 10 year old design? Here is the CEA stuff

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5748-cea-2010-standard-compilation.html

You can see the overall 2010-CEA data and compare it to the data on Josh's site.

When you look at the data for the subwoofers that Ilkka and Josh both measured the results are very close.

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Thanks for the link.

Any thoughts on my budget upgrade idea (new driver for my sub, EQ, different placement)? If you prefer, you can email or PM me.

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post #3156 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

In Ilkka's defense I believe almost all/all of the subs he measured where brought to the testing location by their owners on the day they would be measured..smile.gif

Tom V.
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Yeah Ilka's never has had a cylinder of his own. smile.gif
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So does a thick layer of dust help reduce audible harmonic distortion? (hehehehe......just kidding......sorry, I couldnt resist )

Good thought wink.gif

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post #3157 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

So does a thick layer of dust help reduce audible harmonic distortion? (hehehehe......just kidding......sorry, I couldnt resist biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif )


If you look hard enough I bet you could find someone claiming that somewhere on the net..smile.gif Some of the tweako claims I've seen are in the same ballpark.

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post #3158 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Thanks for the link.

Any thoughts on my budget upgrade idea (new driver for my sub, EQ, different placement)? If you prefer, you can email or PM me.

IIRC from our emails(or this thread) you more or less are satisfied with the 46PC+, except for the fact that it bottoms on the most demanding source material?

Going with a different 12" driver could potentially solve that. The trick will be

1)finding a 12" that will work well in that large of an enclosure with a large amount of throw.
2)making sure the driver will be close enough in the t/s that when combined with the built in EQing of your amp....the end FR is close.

I can't think of any offhand...but you'd be looking at $200 minimum I bet.

I know we discussed this via email but you may also consider simply tuning the 46PC+ higher via installation of shorter porting. Then you could set the amp to 20hz or 25hz mode. When you find the second 46PC+ you have been looking for...retune the original unit back to 16hz?

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post #3159 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

IIRC from our emails(or this thread) you more or less are satisfied with the 46PC+, except for the fact that it bottoms on the most demanding source material?

Going with a different 12" driver could potentially solve that. The trick will be

1)finding a 12" that will work well in that large of an enclosure with a large amount of throw.
2)making sure the driver will be close enough in the t/s that when combined with the built in EQing of your amp....the end FR is close.

I can't think of any offhand...but you'd be looking at $200 minimum I bet.

I know we discussed this via email but you may also consider simply tuning the 46PC+ higher via installation of shorter porting. Then you could set the amp to 20hz or 25hz mode. When you find the second 46PC+ you have been looking for...retune the original unit back to 16hz?

Tom V.
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My understanding from Ed is the the dB12.3 driver would be a direct replacement for my current driver (dB12?). I believe he said the new driver runs about $230 (I'll go back and check my emails). He also mentioned that if I'm only experiencing the problem on rare occasion then in his opinion it wasn't worth the cost to upgrade.

Yes, we did discuss raising the tuning frequency (I greatly appreciate the offer to help smile.gif ), but I'd prefer not to give up the extension I currently have.

I started this search thinking my goal was to increase headroom. Now after all the research I've done so far I'm wondering if in addition to extra output/headroom, I will also gain better sound/bass quality from a new sub or driver replacment (a friend also suggested I might be able to update the driver and the amp; I'll have to ask Ed about that).

The good news is that I have a number or options, the bad news is that I have a number of options and can't decide at this point....lol redface.gif

I'll get it worked out eventually. wink.gif

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post #3160 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

If you look hard enough I bet you could find someone claiming that somewhere on the net..smile.gif Some of the tweako claims I've seen are in the same ballpark.

Tom V.
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Hmmm....maybe I'll try puting a brick on my sub; that should do the trick. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #3161 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

My understanding from Ed is the the dB12.3 driver would be a direct replacement for my current driver (dB12?). I believe he said the new driver runs about $230 (I'll go back and check my emails). He also mentioned that if I'm only experiencing the problem on rare occasion then in his opinion it wasn't worth the cost to upgrade.

Yes, we did discuss raising the tuning frequency (I greatly appreciate the offer to help smile.gif ), but I'd prefer not to give up the extension I currently have.

I started this search thinking my goal was to increase headroom. Now after all the research I've done so far I'm wondering if in addition to extra output/headroom, I will also gain better sound/bass quality from a new sub or driver replacment (a friend also suggested I might be able to update the driver and the amp; I'll have to ask Ed about that).

The good news is that I have a number or options, the bad news is that I have a number of options and can't decide at this point....lol redface.gif

I'll get it worked out eventually. wink.gif


Yeah, that's same frame, so its drop in. If I had to guess I'd say it would reduce the problem but not eliminate it.

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post #3162 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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For those who didn't see them. Here are the finish options on the Triax. Notice that natural maple has now been added as an option.

Satin Black Texture


Cordovan Cherry



Black Ash



American Cherry



Espresso



Natural Maple




You can find a link to the bigger pictures here.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/prism/products/triax

click on the specification tab and scroll down.

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post #3163 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 05:57 PM
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For those who didn't see them. Here are the finish options on the Triax. Notice that natural maple has now been added as an option.

Satin Black Texture


Cordovan Cherry



Black Ash



American Cherry



Espresso



Natural Maple




You can find a link to the bigger pictures here.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/prism/products/triax

click on the specification tab and scroll down.

Nice! biggrin.gif

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post #3164 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:21 PM
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I prefer piano black, but satin black looks tough smile.gif

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post #3165 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:33 PM
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I would go with black ash...always preferred black over other finishes for speakers. However the cordovan cherry looks decent....not a fan of the maple at all, looks like pine imo.

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Espresso looks nice.

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post #3167 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:40 PM
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That Cordovan Cherry is gorgeous.

Time to start saving up.

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post #3168 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Nice! biggrin.gif

No kidding its a good thing I can't afford the Triax. Because I would be stuck between Cordovan Cherry, American Cherry and Espresso. Their all so good looking. I think I might be drooling... But then again I've always liked dark woods.
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I prefer piano black, but satin black looks tough smile.gif

Piano is nice I'm afraid I would scratch and speakers up badly with piano finish. That and its expensive. I would guess it would cost more than the veneer options and take longer.

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post #3169 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:45 PM
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That Cordovan Cherry is gorgeous.

Time to start saving up.

I here ya! I really want to try a Triax but my Wife for the first time ever is not approving of it. She says the XV15's are just fine and it would look dumb just having one sub. I think she likes the powered end tables theme.

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Just a question for all, just wondering if most level match or gain match subs. Is there really a big difference in sound. Does one have advantages over the other.

I don't think there is a difference. The general conscious is don't go over the 0 in the sub level setting in your receiver as your can clip your sub output and that power sound audio subs have a more realistic gain and its fine as long as its not set at maximum. I'm not sure if that's what you meant though.

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post #3171 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I here ya! I really want to try a Triax but my Wife for the first time ever is not approving of it. She says the XV15's are just fine and it would look dumb just having one sub. I think she likes the powered end tables theme.

Dose she know you get trade in value? Also a nice veneer for not much more. smile.gif

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post #3172 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:50 PM
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That Cordovan Cherry is gorgeous.

Time to start saving up.

+1

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post #3173 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

I don't think there is a difference. The general conscious is don't go over the 0 in the sub level setting in your receiver as your can clip your sub output and that power sound audio subs have a more realistic gain and its fine as long as its not set at maximum. I'm not sure if that's what you meant though.

Yea I agree...I found that setting the sub gain to 3:00 on the XV15's and pulling about -3db in the avr sounds best and allows slightly more output. I did level match them with a spl meter, but they are really close in comparison to what the dial shows so I dont worry about it.

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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

No kidding its a good thing I can't afford the Triax. Because I would be stuck between Cordovan Cherry, American Cherry and Espresso. Their all so good looking. I think I might be drooling... But then again I've always liked dark woods.
Piano is nice I'm afraid I would scratch and speakers up badly with piano finish. That and its expensive. I would guess it would cost more than the veneer options and take longer.

I had a piano finish sub and it was defiantly not a great finish to have while having two small kids.
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post #3175 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 06:55 PM
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Dose she know you get trade in value? Also a nice veneer for not much more. smile.gif

Ya I told her and she would go for it if I just got one...but she knows me too well, I would have to have dual Triax's lol. Dual subs just look better in a room no matter what you have.

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I had a piano finish sub and it was defiantly not a great finish to have while having two small kids.


Oh I see you got the JTR Noesis speakers in finally! How are you liking them?

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post #3177 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya I told her and she would go for it if I just got one...but she knows me too well, I would have to have dual Triax's lol. Dual subs just look better in a room no matter what you have.

I don't know if you need two. I assume you have two XV15's

According the CEA-2010 mesurments

XV-15


Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 108.1dB
Low bass (40-63Hz): 116.1dB

*Add 6dB for an equivalent value for a 1m measurement distance.

Triax


Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 116.4dB
Low bass (40-63Hz): 127.1dB

*Add 6dB for an equivalent value for a 1m measurement distance.

I don't think you would need two maintain output. If you subs are far apart (not stacked) I would assume your getting like 4.-4.5 db's over one XV-15 and the Triax produces more than that (20-31.5hz average ) is a difference of 8.3. But eve more in the upper range (40-63hz average) is 10.7 dbs differnece. I really doubt you would loose any output. biggrin.gif

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post #3178 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 07:11 PM
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This has me wondering if I have enough of a sub. YPAO sets mine to +6 with the knob on the XV15 in the 1 o'clock position with the mic at the MLP which is 11 feet from the tv.

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post #3179 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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This has me wondering if I have enough of a sub. YPAO sets mine to +6 with the knob on the XV15 in the 1 o'clock position.

I would guess this is may be just how YPAO works. The auto calibration isn't full proof.

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post #3180 of 29950 Old 05-30-2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

I don't know if you need two. I assume you have two XV15's

According the CEA-2010 mesurments

XV-15


Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 108.1dB
Low bass (40-63Hz): 116.1dB

*Add 6dB for an equivalent value for a 1m measurement distance.

Triax


Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 116.4dB
Low bass (40-63Hz): 127.1dB

*Add 6dB for an equivalent value for a 1m measurement distance.

I don't think you would need two maintain output. If you subs are far apart (not stacked) I would assume your getting like 4.-4.5 db's over one XV-15 and the Triax produces more than that (20-31.5hz average ) is a difference of 8.3. But eve more in the upper range (40-63hz average) is 10.7 dbs differnece. I really doubt you would loose any output. biggrin.gif

yep I agree however my concern is losing coverage across my seating areas. Output is not really a concern either as dual xv15's have plenty...with room gain I am hitting 132db at 30hz. I am more interested in what single digit extension would be like!

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