Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1075 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32221 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 09:47 AM
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But I do shudder to think what might happen if the Legend's amp goes out like they have been known to do
That would be terrible
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post #32222 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 10:00 AM
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I now no longer think I went overboard with an Epik Legend in our bedroom.

But I do shudder to think what might happen if the Legend's amp goes out like they have been known to do
You just use an INuke!
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post #32223 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 10:30 AM
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My cousin got a pair of V3601s. They dwarf his main towers, making them look like "wides"!

Nice. A pair of those should pressurize the room nicely.

He should pull the mains out further into the room, at least equal to the front surface of the subs, to minimize the reflections off the sides of the subs.
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post #32224 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 11:06 AM
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Just placed my order for 2 v1801's to replace my single Klipsch rw-12. Think I will notice a difference? Lol.
Haha , I had the Klipsch sub last year and had it going with a Klipsch Sub10....Now at the time I thought it was awesome...The 2 SVS PC12+s I just had put that set up too SHAME!....The 2 PSA V1500's I just got to replace the PC12's , well it wasnt as drastic a change , it certainly was a very noticeable upgrade!! Enjoy the v18's , thinking I should get some now
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post #32225 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 12:11 PM
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Nice. A pair of those should pressurize the room nicely.

He should pull the mains out further into the room, at least equal to the front surface of the subs, to minimize the reflections off the sides of the subs.
Thanks for the tip Zeus........anyone else agree with this, or is it a non-issue?
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post #32226 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 12:20 PM
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Thanks for the tip Zeus........anyone else agree with this, or is it a non-issue?
I agree… I missed that. 🙈

Try using a tape measure and make the L/R equidistant from the MLP as the center channel. That is probably enough to clear the PSAs. Can the PSAs be pushed back a few inches if necessary?
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post #32227 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 02:13 PM
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I agree… I missed that. 🙈

Try using a tape measure and make the L/R equidistant from the MLP as the center channel. That is probably enough to clear the PSAs. Can the PSAs be pushed back a few inches if necessary?
True, I'll do that.....the PSAs can definitely move back if necessary.
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post #32228 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 04:02 PM
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You just use an INuke!
Yeah, but where's the fun in that?
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post #32229 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 04:48 PM
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I have a tactile bass question. My V3601 is in my bedroom corner beside my nightstand, so it's only 3 feet or so away. I've always had it, and my previous subs with the woofers facing straight forward (perpendicular to my position). I rotated the V3601 so that the woofers are facing the bed and it's quite a difference. Since bass is omni-directional, it shouldn't change the sound but will obviously dramatically increase the tactile feeling? It's pretty crazy actually at fairly low levels
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post #32230 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 05:56 PM
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Hell, just lay the sub on its side and get a custom mattress made to fit it. Be the most kick ass vibrating bed on the planet. Lol
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post #32231 of 32728 Old 03-07-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
I have a tactile bass question. My V3601 is in my bedroom corner beside my nightstand, so it's only 3 feet or so away. I've always had it, and my previous subs with the woofers facing straight forward (perpendicular to my position). I rotated the V3601 so that the woofers are facing the bed and it's quite a difference. Since bass is omni-directional, it shouldn't change the sound but will obviously dramatically increase the tactile feeling? It's pretty crazy actually at fairly low levels
Yes, facing the port towards you increases tactile response. You stumbled on it yourself without reading it here first. Nice!


…Wait, did you just say a V3601 in a bedroom? WTH? What are you running in your main room?
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post #32232 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 04:01 AM
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Hell, just lay the sub on its side and get a custom mattress made to fit it. Be the most kick ass vibrating bed on the planet. Lol
I might do that!

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Yes, facing the port towards you increases tactile response. You stumbled on it yourself without reading it here first. Nice!


…Wait, did you just say a V3601 in a bedroom? WTH? What are you running in your main room?
I'd read about tactile bass and guys having subs nearfield, but I'd never thought too much about it. I figured I'd rotate the sub and see if I could tell a difference. The difference is fairly dramatic. I don't have a dedicated theater room and the living room has always been the kid's domain. We always watch TV/movies in our bedroom, so as I'd mentioned earlier in the thread this all started with trying to upgrade our old soundbar. The kids have that in the living room now I'll take it as a badge of "honor" that I might be the only one running a V3601 in my bedroom currently.
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post #32233 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 04:12 AM
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I think part of my issue this entire time might have been settings in my input sources, doh! I listen to music via the Spotify app on my Amazon Fire TV stick. We also watch Netflix, HBO, Showtime, etc. thru the Fire stick. Those have always sounded pretty good. It looks like by default the Fire stick will output to Dolby Digital Plus over HDMI if that format is available.

My Uverse and Blu-Ray watching has always been somewhat "meh" and lacking. After watching Midnight Special on my Uverse box the other day I noticed that it wasn't nearly as dramatic as I'd read about on here. @gajCA recommended I check my Uverse box for settings. Surely enough, it was in a "stereo" mode that was outputting to Dolby Pro Logic II. When I changed it to "surround" in the Uverse box, it changed the mode in my AVR to Dolby Digital. The sound improvement was pretty dramatic.

This got me thinking that maybe something similar was going on with my PS3 for Blu-Ray. I put in the Accountant (haven't watched it yet), just to see what was happening. I noticed my AVR was playing in "Multi Channel In" mode, and no other modes were available. I Googled, and changed a setting in the PS3 to "bitstream". This allowed me to select Dolby Digital Plus and the difference was INSANE. I was only watching the previews, but at -30 dB on my AVR things were shaking whereas normally at -10 dB it was pretty good, but not amazing.

I don't regret getting the V3601 at all, but I suspect my rapid change from the V1801 to the V3601 was largely caused by incorrect settings on my PS3 and Uverse box So what exactly was going on here? How much "worse" is Pro Logic II and Multi Channel In than Digital? It seems like it's pretty dramatic. Was I getting the true LFE channel?

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post #32234 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 09:04 AM
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I think part of my issue this entire time might have been settings in my input sources, doh! I listen to music via the Spotify app on my Amazon Fire TV stick. We also watch Netflix, HBO, Showtime, etc. thru the Fire stick. Those have always sounded pretty good. It looks like by default the Fire stick will output to Dolby Digital Plus over HDMI if that format is available.

My Uverse and Blu-Ray watching has always been somewhat "meh" and lacking. After watching Midnight Special on my Uverse box the other day I noticed that it wasn't nearly as dramatic as I'd read about on here. @gajCA recommended I check my Uverse box for settings. Surely enough, it was in a "stereo" mode that was outputting to Dolby Pro Logic II. When I changed it to "surround" in the Uverse box, it changed the mode in my AVR to Dolby Digital. The sound improvement was pretty dramatic.

This got me thinking that maybe something similar was going on with my PS3 for Blu-Ray. I put in the Accountant (haven't watched it yet), just to see what was happening. I noticed my AVR was playing in "Multi Channel In" mode, and no other modes were available. I Googled, and changed a setting in the PS3 to "bitstream". This allowed me to select Dolby Digital Plus and the difference was INSANE. I was only watching the previews, but at -30 dB on my AVR things were shaking whereas normally at -10 dB it was pretty good, but not amazing.

I don't regret getting the V3601 at all, but I suspect my rapid change from the V1801 to the V3601 was largely caused by incorrect settings on my PS3 and Uverse box So what exactly was going on here? How much "worse" is Pro Logic II and Multi Channel In than Digital? It seems like it's pretty dramatic. Was I getting the true LFE channel?
Well, the change in settings on your Uverse box should have made a pretty dramatic difference going from outputting 2Ch Stereo to DD, but changing the PS3 from PCM to Bitstream should have made absolutely no difference at all in the sound. PCM and Bitstream are essentially the exact same thing; with PCM, the source component (the PS3 in this case) will decode the stream and output it in multi-channel, with Bitstream the AVR decodes the stream. With either method, the final output should sound exactly the same.

That being said, if your AVR is defaulting to DD+ on your PS3, you should change that to either True HD or DTS MA in the AVR (whichever format the disc is encoded with). It seem strange to me that your AVR would choose the DD+ surround mode with a BR that has HD audio.


EDIT: Derp! Just now saw that you were only watching the previews on the BR. Yes, those are usually not encoded in either of the HD formats, usually DD or DD+. However, the change from PCM to Bitstream still should not have made a drastic difference.
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post #32235 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 11:12 AM
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Well, the change in settings on your Uverse box should have made a pretty dramatic difference going from outputting 2Ch Stereo to DD, but changing the PS3 from PCM to Bitstream should have made absolutely no difference at all in the sound. PCM and Bitstream are essentially the exact same thing; with PCM, the source component (the PS3 in this case) will decode the stream and output it in multi-channel, with Bitstream the AVR decodes the stream. With either method, the final output should sound exactly the same.

That being said, if your AVR is defaulting to DD+ on your PS3, you should change that to either True HD or DTS MA in the AVR (whichever format the disc is encoded with). It seem strange to me that your AVR would choose the DD+ surround mode with a BR that has HD audio.


EDIT: Derp! Just now saw that you were only watching the previews on the BR. Yes, those are usually not encoded in either of the HD formats, usually DD or DD+. However, the change from PCM to Bitstream still should not have made a drastic difference.
Don't have a PS3 but found this:

"When using an HDMI cable, only [Linear PCM 2 Ch.] audio will be output from PlayStation®2 and PlayStation® format software. To output Dolby Digital or DTS® audio, you must connect the PS3™ system and the audio device using a digital optical cable and switch to [Optical Digital] under [Audio Output Settings]."

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post #32236 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 11:29 AM
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^^^

That is only when playing PS1 or PS2 games.
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post #32237 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 11:34 AM
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Has anyone compared the V1801 to the JTR Cap 1400?
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post #32238 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 11:41 AM
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Don't have a PS3 but found this:

"When using an HDMI cable, only [Linear PCM 2 Ch.] audio will be output from PlayStation®2 and PlayStation® format software. To output Dolby Digital or DTS® audio, you must connect the PS3™ system and the audio device using a digital optical cable and switch to [Optical Digital] under [Audio Output Settings]."
I have 2 PS3's, and HDMI will output 2, 5 or 7 channel. You can run 2 Ch audio to the receiver and get Dolby Digital or DTS the same as a digital optical cable. A digital optical cable will not carry True HD or DTS MA, as the digital optical has its limitations.
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post #32239 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 11:47 AM
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I have 2 PS3's, and HDMI will output 2, 5 or 7 channel. You can run 2 Ch audio to the receiver and get Dolby Digital or DTS the same as a digital optical cable. A digital optical cable will not carry True HD or DTS MA, as the digital optical has its limitations.
I think my issue was previously my PS3 ran to my TV via HDMI and then out to a soundbar. When I switched to an AVR, I never went back in and updated any PS3 settings. It appears going back in and re-selecting HDMI-->Automatic under the PS3 audio settings made it start sending different formats. I seem to recall only getting Pro Logic II coming across on the AVR, but now I'm getting DD, DD+, DTS-HD MSTR, etc.
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post #32240 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 12:05 PM
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I think my issue was previously my PS3 ran to my TV via HDMI and then out to a soundbar. When I switched to an AVR, I never went back in and updated any PS3 settings. It appears going back in and re-selecting HDMI-->Automatic under the PS3 audio settings made it start sending different formats. I seem to recall only getting Pro Logic II coming across on the AVR, but now I'm getting DD, DD+, DTS-HD MSTR, etc.
albatros43 ,
Correct when you switched to the AVR and let the AVR process, you get all the formats that the AVR can decode. My comment was to the :"When using an HDMI cable, only [Linear PCM 2 Ch.] audio will be output from PlayStation®2 and PlayStation® format software. To output Dolby Digital or DTS® audio, you must connect the PS3™ system and the audio device using a digital optical cable and switch to [Optical Digital] under [Audio Output Settings]."
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post #32241 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 01:42 PM
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Hey, I realize this is more of an Audyssey question, but I assume you guys can help. I just ran Audyssey for the first time after getting the V3601. I had to turn the gain down a good bit to get a -8 dB level. At quarter gain, it was -12 dB, so sub gain is maybe 20% to get to a -8 dB. If I like to run hot, should I turn up the gain a little bit to get more like a -11 dB to -10 dB level in the AVR and then bump it up 8 or 9 dB or should I just go with current 20% gain and bump it up to -1 dB or zero dB in the AVR? Most seem to say you should never run the sub positive in the AVR, so it's a balance finding the right sub gain (I guess).
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post #32242 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 02:03 PM
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Has anyone compared the V1801 to the JTR Cap 1400?
I am interested in this topic as well.

In a related matter, are JTR products available in Europe?

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post #32243 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 02:16 PM
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Hey, I realize this is more of an Audyssey question, but I assume you guys can help. I just ran Audyssey for the first time after getting the V3601. I had to turn the gain down a good bit to get a -8 dB level. At quarter gain, it was -12 dB, so sub gain is maybe 20% to get to a -8 dB. If I like to run hot, should I turn up the gain a little bit to get more like a -11 dB to -10 dB level in the AVR and then bump it up 8 or 9 dB or should I just go with current 20% gain and bump it up to -1 dB or zero dB in the AVR? Most seem to say you should never run the sub positive in the AVR, so it's a balance finding the right sub gain (I guess).
I like running my subs 8 to 9 dB hot as well and while I like it when Audyssey returns a sub trim of -11 so I can just bump it up to -3 it's not always easy to get. My latest Audyssey set the trim at -9 and I just bumped it up to -1 and all is well. So, unless you like running Audyssey I would just bump it up to 0 and not worry about it.

The danger once you get into positive numbers is running out of headroom and pushing your subs too hard if you were playing an intense movie at loud levels. I feel fairly confident that you running a V3601 in a small bedroom is not going to put you in danger of running out of headroom any time soon.

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post #32244 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 02:24 PM
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Has anyone compared the V1801 to the JTR Cap 1400?
The V1801 is going to have less output than a Cap 1400. Smaller box, less power. The V1801 is more than enough for many people and will fit where Cap 1400s won't.

A V3601 is more comparable to the Cap1400. A V3601 is likely equal or few dBs more out out throughout the band. JTR has a 2400, 218, and 4000 at higher pricepoints to outperform the V3601.

I prefer the PSA satin black finish to JTR's flat black but JTR will build you any sub in any veneer!

I feel like PSA gives you the most bang for your buck… up to a limit. JTR gives you a lot of bag for your bucks with the sky being the limit.
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I am interested in this topic as well.

In a related matter, are JTR products available in Europe?
Ask in the JTR thread or call JTR.
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post #32245 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 03:08 PM
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Has anyone compared the V1801 to the JTR Cap 1400?
Looks like the 118HT is the apple-to-apples comparison.
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post #32246 of 32728 Old 03-08-2017, 07:28 PM
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Well right now I'm sitting in the office on the first story typing this post while my daughter is downstairs in the basement HT playing Skyrim. I'm one story above the HT and now I see what my wife means about the whole house shaking. The V3601's are vibrating everything and my daughter is only playing it at -28 on the master volume. Uh oh… wouldn't you know it, my wife just came down from the second story bedroom and asked what was going on because she can feel and hear it all the way up there as well. I better go get my daughter off the Xbox. Dang these subs are fun.

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post #32247 of 32728 Old 03-09-2017, 05:16 AM
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Anyone have an S3601 yet? Would love to hear some impressions!

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post #32248 of 32728 Old 03-09-2017, 06:07 AM
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Anyone have an S3601 yet? Would love to hear some impressions!
Me too. I don't remember seeing very many posts regarding the new sealed models.

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post #32249 of 32728 Old 03-09-2017, 01:21 PM
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Well right now I'm sitting in the office on the first story typing this post while my daughter is downstairs in the basement HT playing Skyrim. I'm one story above the HT and now I see what my wife means about the whole house shaking. The V3601's are vibrating everything and my daughter is only playing it at -28 on the master volume. Uh oh… wouldn't you know it, my wife just came down from the second story bedroom and asked what was going on because she can feel and hear it all the way up there as well. I better go get my daughter off the Xbox. Dang these subs are fun.
Audyssey LFC....
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post #32250 of 32728 Old 03-09-2017, 02:39 PM
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Bombs away on an S1801 review...

So I'm not nearly as subwoofer technical as many other posters on this thread are, but I needed something to do since I don't have any local friends in the HT hobby, so time for a small(ish) review of my new S1801....

When I first got the sub, I had some buyer's remorse coming from dual S1500s (colocated), especially after going from -10.0\-11.0 sub trims post-Audyssey to -6.5 (which I boosted) for the new single unit. Real world experience with how much work one sub is saved from when there's another to share the load. I was torn between the S1801 and upgrading to the SVS SB16 which I was able to hear in person at CES '17. I even troubled Tom V. with questions about the SB16's smaller woofer being paired with a more powerful amp. Since I was able to take advantage of trading in my S1500s, I decided to trust in the great listening experiences I'd had from PSA.

I've had time to consume a lot of material: movies like Jason Bourne, The Girl on the Train, Thor: The Dark World; streaming shows in 2.0 and 5.1 from Netflix\Hulu\Amazon, and a bunch of repeated watches of surround demos (pretty much every format)that I have on USB. In short, this sub is a keeper. My wife will say things like "it's a wonder we still go to the theater" or "you want a second one of those?" The library scene with the bass drop in Oblivion, the chaos in San Andreas, the driving bass notes in certain parts of Jason Bourne's action scenes\score, or even something as simple as the opening\ending theme on the 80s Robotech series on Netflix (remixed in 5.1) or the frequent music numbers that played on the Oscars coverage recently, the sub just fills our listening area (couch) with deep, clear, composed bass. I had family over this past weekend who rented The Accountant and who visibly jumped whenever the sound of the 50 caliber rifle resonated through the room. I play the Dolby Atmos Amaze demo over and over because of how awesome the thunder segment sounds. The examples could continue, but you get it.

One of my favorite things to point my ear at is the differentiation in bass notes as the sub plays them. Music and movies can be different tests of this. Movies (and video games for that matter) can have a very "busy" sound mix that have different sources of bass being reproduced at one time, whereas music can be a more progressional slide up and\or down between notes. In both scenarios, I have no issue hearing separation within those frequencies with the S1801. The sub does so well with music that I'm constantly looking for new songs to play and experience the bass line. When I'm being mindful of deep voices or something like weighty helicopter rotors having the frequency spectrum split between one of my speakers and the sub, the blend is smooth and gives the audio a real weight that reminds me why I love home theater so much. It seems to me that the quality of the bass from the new driver has a degree of improvement over the S1500. Nothing major to a point of insulting a terrific sub, but it's kind of like a "I like hamburgers in general, but a burger from Place B is better than Place A" thing. Others have spoken about it in other '01 model reviews, but that difference is there and tickles your ear to want to explore more content through it. The S1801 is slight and subtle when it needs to be, potent and deep when it needs to be, but stays smooth and taut. Good things for a speaker you both hear and feel, and now I'm not so worried about the amp\driver pairing anymore.

Anyway, I like this thing a lot and feel great about the buy. It's a great sum result of engineering, subwoofer know-how, and concern for quality. I have every intention (and a real itch) to go duals the right way in the near future, but my current opinions are from the perspective of having this one sub pull bass duty.

TV: Samsung 55" 3D LED | Sources: PS4; Panasonic DMP-BT460; HDTV cable; Dell 7010 SFF | AVP: Marantz AV8802A | Amps: Emotiva XPA-1L\100 (LR\C); UPA-5 | Fronts: JBL Studio 590 | Center: JBL Studio 520C| Surrounds: JBL P520WS | Subs: PSA S1801 | Heights: SVS Prime Elevations
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Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15
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