Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1090 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32671 of 32698 Unread 03-23-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Cabinet shop has been kicking arse lately as they try their best to keep up with our increasing demand. Thanks to all for your continued support--- including our international distributors too!


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
It looks like PSA has their own dedicated wing of the Cabinet shop's building, which doesn't surprise me considering they can barely keep up with your demand. A good problem to have for both you and them. Keep the US economy rolling.
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post #32672 of 32698 Unread 03-23-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
So the V15's got another twerkout this weekend after the strip club ...... Good news is , that once I told her that the 18's werent much bigger , she said GET EM!!!........The V18's are an upgrade , but I think a couple V36's would be just right lol....
With the name pulloutchamp I just can't see you ever going to a strip club lol

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post #32673 of 32698 Unread 03-23-2017, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Has PSA always painted the inside of the cabinets or is this a recent development?
Marc, I found this out from almost the very first sub I purchased from PSA, I like to tear them down and post photos of the build quality, drivers and amps. I noticed this very early in PSA's history, I was shocked at the attention to detail that goes into every product they produce. So no this is not something new, they have always done this to my knowledge.

I don't remember exactly the reasoning but I was told something by Jim that painting both surfaces has something to do with the MDF not expanding or warping or something along those lines. Jim F could chime in to confirm or debunk whatever I'm trying to say... I just know that it's not something they just started doing, hope that answers part of your question.

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #32674 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Marc, I found this out from almost the very first sub I purchased from PSA, I like to tear them down and post photos of the build quality, drivers and amps. I noticed this very early in PSA's history, I was shocked at the attention to detail that goes into every product they produce. So no this is not something new, they have always done this to my knowledge.

Cheers Jeffrey
Greats points Jeff. And it's things like this that get glossed over in those infamous threads where someone asks the question, "Which sub should I buy?". Everyone then jumps in and talks about nothing but max output. There is sooooooooo much more to subs than just output. And the proof of that is what happened with Reaction Audio. People were jumping into those threads telling others to buy RA subs based solely on output. And they ignored sound quality, build quality, honesty, integrity, customer service etc...

Anyway that's why I keep choosing PSA, because they pay attention to all the details. Here's a quick checklist of the things I consider when buying a sub (in no particular order):
1. Customer Service… PSA owns this one and that's undebatable.
2. Subwoofer performance (sound quality, power and output…. notice there are other factors here besides just output).
3. Price to performance ratio… this includes factoring in shipping costs.
4. Build quality.
5. Quality of components (amp, driver, and cabinet).
6. Engineering and development.
7. American Made.

I admit the last one didn't use to be important to me but it is very important to me now. I love being able to say that my subwoofer and speakers are made here in America. I take a lot of pride in that. It's a feel good thing.

Subwoofers: dual PSA V3601's with a PSA XV15se nearfield
Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210 Center- PSA 110sr Surrounds
Denon X4200 - Oppo UDP-203 - Panamax M4300 - Direct TV - Apple TV - Xbox360

Last edited by Hopinater; Yesterday at 06:15 AM.
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post #32675 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 08:22 AM
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Good Day: I purchased the V1801 last week. Did you guys purchase the ANTI-MODE 8033S-II to assist with the calibration of your sub(s)?
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post #32676 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GATABITES View Post
Good Day: I purchased the V1801 last week. Did you guys purchase the ANTI-MODE 8033S-II to assist with the calibration of your sub(s)?
What AVR do you have?

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post #32677 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Greats points Jeff. And it's things like this that get glossed over in those infamous threads where someone asks the question, "Which sub should I buy?". Everyone then jumps in and talks about nothing but max output. There is sooooooooo much more to subs than just output. And the proof of that is what happened with Reaction Audio. People were jumping into those threads telling others to buy RA subs based solely on output. And they ignored sound quality, build quality, honesty, integrity, customer service etc...

Anyway that's why I keep choosing PSA, because they pay attention to all the details. Here's a quick checklist of the things I consider when buying a sub (in no particular order):
1. Customer Service… PSA owns this one and that's undebatable.
2. Subwoofer performance (sound quality, power and output…. notice there are other factors here besides just output).
3. Price to performance ratio… this includes factoring in shipping costs.
4. Build quality.
5. Quality of components (amp, driver, and cabinet).
6. Engineering and development.
7. American Made.

I admit the last one didn't use to be important to me but it is very important to me now. I love being able to say that my subwoofer and speakers are made here in America. I take a lot of pride in that. It's a feel good thing.
Don't forget to add oversized voice coils to the list
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post #32678 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
With the name pulloutchamp I just can't see you ever going to a strip club lol
Its her that always wants to go!! Im innocent...
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post #32679 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
7. American Made.

I admit the last one didn't use to be important to me but it is very important to me now. I love being able to say that my subwoofer and speakers are made here in America. I take a lot of pride in that. It's a feel good thing.

The Made In USA stamp was the almost the first thing my neighbor noticed and commented on when he saw my 2 sub boxes in the garage. The only comment before that was "what the hell are those?"

Being an engineer involved with manufacturing and previously owning his own shop, he mentioned how impressed he was with the company just hearing that everything is US made and also how difficult it is to do that.
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post #32680 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
What AVR do you have?
I have a Yamaha A3060; which has YAPO calibration software.
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post #32681 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 10:39 AM
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For any newcomers you can go way back in this thread to see some of my photos of sub tear downs and also the very first speakers that PSA produced. It's no coincidence that I purchased the first speakers to come off the assembly line, if they paid that much attention to detail for the subs I felt confident it would be the same for the speakers as well, I was right of course.

What impressed me the most besides build quality was the components used inside the cabs, the in house hand wired crossovers, drivers, damping material, and wiring, it took me a while to get the CD bolts off the WG cause it was so heavy and the magnet keep sticking to all the metal parts. To say the speakers are over built doesn't do them justice, you have to see for yourself......

No matter what model speakers or sub(s) you purchase you will most definitely hear the PSA signature sound, it's almost an unfair advantage over other subs and speakers in this price class or any for that matter.......if you want to hear the whole story and not just the prologue and credits don't hesitate to give them a test drive........... I have my black made in the USA T shirt on now and the misses is wearing my blue one, I guess we're walking billboards, a little slower walking now, age will do that..........

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #32682 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GATABITES View Post
I have a Yamaha A3060; which has YAPO calibration software.
I say you don't need an Antimode. The Yamaha has a pretty good manual PEQ. YPAO will time align and EQ down to 31Hz. If you need any correction below that you copy the YPAO result to a manual slot and then tweak manually.
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post #32683 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I say you don't need an Antimode. The Yamaha has a pretty good manual PEQ. YPAO will time align and EQ down to 31Hz. If you need any correction below that you copy the YPAO result to a manual slot and then tweak manually.
I agree

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post #32684 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 12:28 PM
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Exactly...I love the manual PEQ in my 1060.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GATABITES View Post
I have a Yamaha A3060; which has YAPO calibration software.
I have the 3050, and I briefly had an Antimode. Granted, this was before I got my V1801, but with my old PC12-Plus, I was hearing no noticeable difference with the Antimode in place. Certainly not $400 worth. I returned it and put the money towards the V1801, which DOES make an audible difference.

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post #32686 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I say you don't need an Antimode. The Yamaha has a pretty good manual PEQ. YPAO will time align and EQ down to 31Hz. If you need any correction below that you copy the YPAO result to a manual slot and then tweak manually.
I had zero luck adjusting my Yamaha's 3060 EQ. It may have been my lack of ability however I found every adjustment I applied was too "wide sweeping" Trying to tame the peak it would continue to drop way past the peak and even trying to boost it afterwards with an additional adjustment didn't help... bottom line (for me) it wasn't granular enough to be of any value.
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post #32687 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I had zero luck adjusting my Yamaha's 3060 EQ. It may have been my lack of ability however I found every adjustment I applied was too "wide sweeping" Trying to tame the peak it would continue to drop way past the peak and even trying to boost it afterwards with an additional adjustment didn't help... bottom line (for me) it wasn't granular enough to be of any value.
Is that just your subwoofer or is that your sub plus center channel?

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post #32688 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Is that just your subwoofer or is that your sub plus center channel?
That's the two subs. I tried gradual and drastic tames and reversing them after the correction/previous peak... without any luck. I only spent a couple of hours tops however from what I could tell I tried virtually every type of adjustment and readjustment (including Q factors). I could tame it but then it would continue to drop creating a null. If I added a boost after the (previous) peak to level it off it would continue to boost.

I passed it by Tom at the time and rightly or wrongly I wrote it off as not being granular enough for subs. Such as the desired frequency range (of adjustment) is too small. Then again I might have been missing something...

By the way the graph was virtually identical with EQ on or off.. I believe I posted images of such back when they were taken.

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post #32689 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 02:01 PM
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That's the two subs. I tried gradual and drastic tames and reversing them after the correction/previous peak... without any luck. I only spent a couple of hours tops however from what I could tell I tried virtually every type of adjustment and readjustment (including Q factors). I could tame it but then it would continue to drop creating a null. If I added a boost after the (previous) peak to level it off it would continue to boost.

I passed it by Tom at the time and rightly or wrongly I wrote it off as not being granular enough for subs. Such as the desired frequency range (of adjustment) is too small. Then again I might have been missing something...

By the way the graph was virtually identical with EQ on or off.. I believe I posted images of such back when they were taken.
Low Q values are wide sweeping, higher Q values are narrower and more granular.

I use PEQedit on my RX-V1800 and RX-V3800. Perhaps @basshead81 can help you with your newer RX-Ax060 model. The fact that your before and after PEQ are no different means your missing something.

The Yamaha YPAO/PEQ only works in the frequency domain while many other solutions operate in the time and frequency domain.

The Antimode is like hitting the EASY button and should give better results than YPAO/PEQ. There is no shame in going Antimode if you can afford it.
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post #32690 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 02:07 PM
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@Charles R you are measuring with REW! Right? Is your mic the UMIK-1? If so, just get the MiniDSP 2x4!
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post #32691 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Low Q values are wide sweeping, higher Q values are narrower and more granular.
I tried combinations of both without success...

Quote:
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@Charles R you are measuring with REW! Right? Is your mic the UMIK-1? If so, just get the MiniDSP 2x4!
I was... REW and UMIK-1... I punted and sold the UMIK-1. At this point in time (since it's a peak and not a null) I'm letting it go. I figure my receiver, speakers and or subs will probably change before long and who knows what those will bring.

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I'm really looking forward to the Denon Audyssey App, it seems it will do quite a bit post calibration and that's what's stopping me from putting the miniDSP in the signal chain. All I really want to do is create a house curve to raise the lower to mid FR on my subs, Audyssey XT32 SUB EQ does a very good job with my bass response, I wonder how much I'm missing with a really flat response, I'm serious, I'd like a boost from 20-80Hz. Here's what I mean, these are my old V1800s (2). I will post some more measurements with my 3 V1801s when I get the X4300 on Saturday. Thanks....

Cheers Jeffrey

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post #32693 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
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Low Q values are wide sweeping, higher Q values are narrower and more granular.

I use PEQedit on my RX-V1800 and RX-V3800. Perhaps @basshead81 can help you with your newer RX-Ax060 model. The fact that your before and after PEQ are no different means your missing something.

The Yamaha YPAO/PEQ only works in the frequency domain while many other solutions operate in the time and frequency domain.

The Antimode is like hitting the EASY button and should give better results than YPAO/PEQ. There is no shame in going Antimode if you can afford it.
Something is up for sure, when I adjust the PEQ I can hear the difference instantly and REW reflects it. I can pull my +8db peak @32hz down all the way till it's flat and I definitely notice it's gone. I actually prefer a 3-4db bump right in that spot or it sounds thin. Anti-mode dual core did not really help much in my room but it is a solid device with lots of nice features. I have also had a mini DSP and the PEQ in the 60 series is all you need imo.
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post #32694 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 05:29 PM
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Spoiler!


This upgraditis going around is real. Log out of AVS while you still can!
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The near-field placement of subs is so addicting! My room is torn apart for painting at the moment. However, I didn't want to keep thinking what if(?).

I have decided to place my 2 S1500s along adjacent sidewalls behind the MLP facing each other (and the MLP). I am moving the S3000i to the sidewall in front of the LPs (one driver facing the front corner and the other facing the side LP). To really make this work I need a second S3000i for the adjacent sidewall.

The S3000i form factor has an advantage over the F25 in this scenario. I am also decorating the room and my S3000i is furniture grade Cordovan Cherry. It is going to be ~2 weeks to get another cherry S3000i. More than enough time to finish painting and get my treatments hung.

I tried to resist the urge to add another sub but I am weak! This upgraditis going around AVS is highly contagious. 😷
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post #32695 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 05:33 PM
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Something is up for sure, when I adjust the PEQ I can hear the difference instantly and REW reflects it.
Manual adjustments were easily heard and reflected in the graph. I posted (perhaps confusingly) that my EQ off and EQ on (after auto) were virtually the same for the subs. For me (once again) I could tame the peak but I couldn't keep the adjustment only within the peak range.

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post #32696 of 32698 Unread Yesterday, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
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Manual adjustments were easily heard and reflected in the graph. I posted (perhaps confusingly) that my EQ off and EQ on (after auto) were virtually the same for the subs. For me (once again) I could tame the peak but I couldn't keep the adjustment only within the peak range.
You should be able to by adjusting the Q up around 4. That will narrow the range where the cut is applied so it does not effect the other frequencies.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
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post #32697 of 32698 Unread Today, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
I'm really looking forward to the Denon Audyssey App, it seems it will do quite a bit post calibration and that's what's stopping me from putting the miniDSP in the signal chain. All I really want to do is create a house curve to raise the lower to mid FR on my subs, Audyssey XT32 SUB EQ does a very good job with my bass response, I wonder how much I'm missing with a really flat response, I'm serious, I'd like a boost from 20-80Hz. Here's what I mean, these are my old V1800s (2). I will post some more measurements with my 3 V1801s when I get the X4300 on Saturday. Thanks....

Cheers Jeffrey

Hi Jeffrey,

I think that's a really interesting question. In my opinion, a flat response below about 100Hz is actually counterproductive, due to the way human hearing works. As illustrated by the Equal Loudness Contours, we don't hear low frequencies in acoustical equilibrium to those in our optimal hearing range from about 400Hz to 4000Hz. As frequencies drop below about 100Hz, they become significantly harder to hear, in relation to the frequencies further up the scale. Most people end up boosting their subs, specifically to emphasize the low, and very low, frequencies. And, you can create that kind of house curve, without waiting for the Audyssey app to be released.

There is a detailed treatment of this subject in the subwoofer guide, linked in my signature, if you are interested.

Regards,
Mike
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post #32698 of 32698 Unread Today, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
BTW, I noticed that the S3000i had a bigger, thicker, weightier sound than the S1500s at the same SPL. It turned out that 2nd-order harmonic distortion is higher on thr S3000i. The S3000i and S3600i have a "tube-like" sound!

In a blind test, I bet many of us would choose the higher 2nd-order harmonic distortion.
That's the opposite of what I would have thought. Double the drivers and double the amp power how could that be?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15
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