Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1107 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33181 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Good post here...And my experience was similar coming from dual PSW 505's to dual XV15's. Once I figured out the best placement that offered a good response and I let my ears adjust to the "clean" bass there was no going back.

I would also suggest downloading REW and playing with the room simulator. It is damn near spot on with it's predictions in my room.
I wonder how many of us have come from "PSW 505's to dual XV15's"? I know I did
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post #33182 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
I wonder how many of us have come from "PSW 505's to dual XV15's"? I know I did
I came from dual Klipsch RW-12d's to dual XS-15se's to dual PSA S1801's, does that count?

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My humble system:

Vizio E601I-A3; Darbee Darblet; Pioneer Elite BDP-62FD universal blu-ray player; Pioneer Elite SC-67 AVR, Antimode 8033, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case)
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post #33183 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
After 2 consecutive nights of testing and running audyssey dozens of times, I'm perplexed by the 15V. It is impressive to behold and has all the specs and I want to love it. But post-Audyssey, my little $100 Bic V80 seems to perform just as well as the 15V. Tonight I am going to bring in my $100 Monoprice 12" to further compare. To get bass I can feel, I have to have the 15V as an end table to the MLP, run Audyssey on the minimum room size setting, max the room size post-Audyssey, and also up the trim. Last week I watched London Has Fallen with a 3 db hot V80. Watched again last night and the 15V sitting in the same spot is a noticeable improvement in the ultra low frequencies, but is unable to achieve 'tactile'. That's 4' from the MLP in a 1900 cubic foot room. Like I said, it is perplexing. I have tried my 6 possible spots with varying levels of space between the port and wall. From 3" to 8"+.
This is why you should use the large room size setting prior to running RC software:

Keep the room size control set to LARGE before doing any measurements or calibration. This will give Audyssey a chance to EQ the lowest frequencies without trying to artificially boost the low end. After Audyssey and calibration, adjust the room size control to your preference.




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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
I dont have Audyssey , I run the calibration thru Onkyos version of audyssey , which im led to believe is not all that great. My sub levels never end up in the negative lately (they did once before but I cant remember what sub , but I know it was nothing compared to the 1801) , in fact I get alot of errors with it now saying there is too much ambient noise when the room is pretty silent so that makes me think it really isnt that great. I have the gain on the sub at about 1 o'clock and the crossover turned all the way clockwise for the LFE. When I run the calibration inside the AVR it always sets my Sub Level @ 0 and Crossover @ 120hz.....I go in and lower the sub level to around -4/-6 , and there is still PLENTY of bass there , some scenes I will lower to 8 or 10 if things start getting crazy..I kind of mess around with the crossover for the sub in the AVR and put it at 80hz as Ive read time and time again , but I have recently put it back to 120hz per a recommendation a few posts back. Not really a lot of difference , maybe someone with a better ear can notice it? So all in all , I need a better receiver that has Audyssey and will give me results that most others on here get.....
This is the main reason: Onkyo's proprietary RC software is not very good, I'm holding onto my Onkyo 1010 for that specific reason, it has XT32 SUB EQ, also bought a Denon 4300 for Atmos and not Onkyo that I have been using for countless years........I'm thinking of selling the 1010 but that AVR is a brute with it's internal amps and weighs 51 pounds and just cringe when I think about letting it go.

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You could have given me warning! I decided to test first by raising the sub levels by +3 db each. At the first bridge scene in Deadpool, it felt like an earthquake hit and feared my house was going to split apart! This was with the Denon x4200w volume set to -12 db which is the loudest my ears can handle when playing UHD Blu Ray discs from my Oppo 203. I will be sticking with the Audyssey settings for now and perhaps +1 db at the most.

I am not familiar with REW, but I will definitely take a look.
Best investment you could make on the inexpensive side, just don't fall down the REW rabbit hole. WARNING, why do that and spoil the surprise I wish I could have seen your face, bump up the sub trim +6dB (on both) and listen at -15 MV, you have been warned..........
I happy for you my friend, enjoy the PSA experience.........

@Bass "5.0" you're only 19-20 versions behind, all the bugs are gone and so many more features added, good job with the subs, Marc has some good advice once in a while.....

Cheers Jeffrey
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post #33184 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
I wonder how many of us have come from "PSW 505's to dual XV15's"? I know I did
Hey Russ I can honestly say I've never owned a sub(s) prior to preordering the PSA XV15 with the bases. As soon as I heard that sub, well you all know the story from here, so I really never compared anything else and don't have the need to. What is it now, coming up on 5 years since I first bought a PSA sub, I think I averaged about four subs per year........
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post #33185 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

This is the main reason: Onkyo's proprietary RC software is not very good, I'm holding onto my Onkyo 1010 for that specific reason, it has XT32 SUB EQ, also bought a Denon 4300 for Atmos and not Onkyo that I have been using for countless years........I'm thinking of selling the 1010 but that AVR is a brute with it's internal amps and weighs 51 pounds and just cringe when I think about letting it go.
It depends on the year of the Onkyo receiver. The first version of AccuEQ got pretty unfavorable reviews but the revised version has not gotten the same criticism. I have an old battleship Onkyo 876 with XT and had given up on Onkyo with the department from Audyssey. With the specs of the RZ900 I finally gave in and was curious to try it. I didn't even plan to use the AccuEQ. It did the impossible in taming my Reaction Awful speakers tho and greatly tightens up the bass. It's very easy to tweak afterwards and on the fly with the EQ controls and you can do all the tweaks with content playing so you can hear the changes immediately which I could never do with audyssey.
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post #33186 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
I dont have Audyssey , I run the calibration thru Onkyos version of audyssey , which im led to believe is not all that great. My sub levels never end up in the negative lately (they did once before but I cant remember what sub , but I know it was nothing compared to the 1801) , in fact I get alot of errors with it now saying there is too much ambient noise when the room is pretty silent so that makes me think it really isnt that great. I have the gain on the sub at about 1 o'clock and the crossover turned all the way clockwise for the LFE. When I run the calibration inside the AVR it always sets my Sub Level @ 0 and Crossover @ 120hz.....I go in and lower the sub level to around -4/-6 , and there is still PLENTY of bass there , some scenes I will lower to 8 or 10 if things start getting crazy..I kind of mess around with the crossover for the sub in the AVR and put it at 80hz as Ive read time and time again , but I have recently put it back to 120hz per a recommendation a few posts back. Not really a lot of difference , maybe someone with a better ear can notice it? So all in all , I need a better receiver that has Audyssey and will give me results that most others on here get.....
If you like the receiver otherwise you can just buy an Antimode or MiniDSP.

Or, I can install a BFD PEQ for you but I'd charge almost as much as buying the MiniDSP + UMIK-1.

You have my number.
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post #33187 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
So I Downloaded the latest version of REW this morning. Pretty impressed how well it has come along....I had been using 5.0 this entire time. Setup was breeze, much easier then then before. I used the time align feature and 3 of my subs came back at 11.01 ms delay and the other 13.3 ms. So I adjust all the delays accordingly, then used Ypao distance setting to tweak the response around crossover. The response looks similar to before, but the bass sounds much louder in the room now. Actually I am not running the subs hot at all now and the bass sounds as loud as running +6db hot and there is no dead spots. I Plan on doing some extensive listening this evening and will follow up with a report.

Moral of the story, I think I am heading the right direction!

Thanks Marc Alexander for the info!!
That's great news! There is a an abyss between 0° and 180° (and 360°) phase where the effects on frequency response will be unpredictable.
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post #33188 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
I came from dual Klipsch RW-12d's to dual XS-15se's to dual PSA S1801's, does that count?

Shout out for sealed PSA subs. Sealed and proud! 👍
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post #33189 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 09:26 PM
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Best way I can summarize this V1801 is that it hits like Thunder and is quick as Lightning. If I had to give it a name I would call it Thors Hammer. Seriously this beast sits across the room glaring at the 15v's shouting "do you kids think that you really can keep up with me muahahaha". Then out of know where Ivan Drago's voice appears, "I will break you". Lol

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post #33190 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Best way I can summarize this V1801 is that it hits like Thunder and is quick as Lightning. If I had to give it a name I would call it Thors Hammer. Seriously this beast sits across the room glaring at the 15v's shouting "do you kids think that you really can keep up with me muahahaha". Then out of know where Ivan Drago's voice appears, "I will break you". Lol
Hahahaha, me thinks you have reached Nirvana! The V1801 is Mariah Carey and those 15Vs are now the band, lighting and backup singers. Together you've got a full concert but Mariah is the main attraction, the star!
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post #33191 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
speaking of boomy , when do the Seatons come in??
I alnost bought @Pulloutchamp 's V1500s (I wanted V1801s of course, which he was trading-in for). However, WAF took me on a slight detour (sorry Tom) 😇

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2390474-seaton-mfw-15-turbo-ss-post52425785.html
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post #33192 of 33203 Old Yesterday, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
I dont have Audyssey , I run the calibration thru Onkyos version of audyssey , which im led to believe is not all that great. My sub levels never end up in the negative lately (they did once before but I cant remember what sub , but I know it was nothing compared to the 1801) , in fact I get alot of errors with it now saying there is too much ambient noise when the room is pretty silent so that makes me think it really isnt that great. I have the gain on the sub at about 1 o'clock and the crossover turned all the way clockwise for the LFE. When I run the calibration inside the AVR it always sets my Sub Level @ 0 and Crossover @ 120hz.....I go in and lower the sub level to around -4/-6 , and there is still PLENTY of bass there , some scenes I will lower to 8 or 10 if things start getting crazy..I kind of mess around with the crossover for the sub in the AVR and put it at 80hz as Ive read time and time again , but I have recently put it back to 120hz per a recommendation a few posts back. Not really a lot of difference , maybe someone with a better ear can notice it? So all in all , I need a better receiver that has Audyssey and will give me results that most others on here get.....
You want to leave the sub level at 0 and only adjust the sub trim levels.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #33193 of 33203 Old Today, 04:15 AM
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I came from dual Klipsch RW-12d's to dual XS-15se's to dual PSA S1801's, does that count?

You're right sk373, that is the same difference. Starting off with decent subs 10 years ago has led to some PSA bliss
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post #33194 of 33203 Old Today, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey Russ I can honestly say I've never owned a sub(s) prior to preordering the PSA XV15 with the bases. As soon as I heard that sub, well you all know the story from here, so I really never compared anything else and don't have the need to. What is it now, coming up on 5 years since I first bought a PSA sub, I think I averaged about four subs per year........
Jeffrey my friend, I would have to say that you have gotten smarter, experienced, and stronger, for all the subs that you have been thru. I agree that you do not need to have experienced other subs, especially since you are so happy with the PSA brand, and a loyal customer and avid fan as well!
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post #33195 of 33203 Old Today, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
You have 4 subs. YPAO can't time align more than two and I'm not sure how accurately it does that. By time aligning properly you ensure they are allbworkong together constructively at the MLP.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ad.php?t=76226
Just wanted to update, I think there is still a bug with this...I can not get my subs aligned via REW. I take a measurement with REW, log the MS delay in the notes, adjust the delay on the amp, rinse repeat and its completely different on the next measurement. It's tail chase. I thought I had it right after the first attempt, I just went back this morning to double check and now it's all different.

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post #33196 of 33203 Old Today, 10:14 AM
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Just wanted to update, I think there is still a bug with this...I can not get my subs aligned via REW. I take a measurement with REW, log the MS delay in the notes, adjust the delay on the amp, rinse repeat and its completely different on the next measurement. It's tail chase. I thought I had it right after the first attempt, I just went back this morning to double check and now it's all different.
You have to use the acoustic timing reference for this to have any accuracy. Are you doing that?
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post #33197 of 33203 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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You have to use the acoustic timing reference for this to have any accuracy. Are you doing that?
Yep...using the right speaker. each time I close and open the program it gives me a totally different timing reference. First it was 12ms, next time it was 51ms...etc. It's never the same.

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post #33198 of 33203 Old Today, 02:34 PM
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Yep...using the right speaker. each time I close and open the program it gives me a totally different timing reference. First it was 12ms, next time it was 51ms...etc. It's never the same.
Tick "Wait for timing reference". I got a few wonky readings just now and selecting this has made the results repeatable.

Are you measuring 0-300Hz or 20-300Hz? I switched to 20 because I am trying to use the feature (Overlays, Phase) to align with the front speakers (set to large just for measurement) at the crossover frequency.
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Yep...using the right speaker. each time I close and open the program it gives me a totally different timing reference. First it was 12ms, next time it was 51ms...etc. It's never the same.
Hey Bass, if I remember correctly using an acoustic timing reference for sub only measurements does not yield consistent results, I could be totally off base here, that's why I asked Marc what he was using as the reference. I believe the best way to time align multiple subs is to use the miniDSP with a single sub output prior to running RC software. Like I said I could be totally wrong here.

I stand corrected I think, the method below is for AVRs that do not have the SUB EQ feature and no independent sub preouts......This is consistent with Dirac Live and XT32 without sub eq. I still like this procedure even if you have sub eq.

How to Time-Align Multiple Subs on a Single Output Channel

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7jmpozner...rsion.pdf?dl=0

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Yes I did that...Still the same thing. Open it up run a sweep shows 58ms delay, close it and start again, next sweep 6ms delay.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yes I did that...Still the same thing. Open it up run a sweep shows 58ms delay, close it and start again, next sweep 6ms delay.
Let me look and see what beta rev I am running when I get home. You should post in the REW thread for more assistance.
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post #33202 of 33203 Old Today, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey Bass, if I remember correctly using an acoustic timing reference for sub only measurements does not yield consistent results, I could be totally off base here, that's why I asked Marc what he was using as the reference. I believe the best way to time align multiple subs is to use the miniDSP with a single sub output prior to running RC software. Like I said I could be totally wrong here.

I stand corrected I think, the method below is for AVRs that do not have the SUB EQ feature and no independent sub preouts......This is consistent with Dirac Live and XT32 without sub eq. I still like this procedure even if you have sub eq.

How to Time-Align Multiple Subs on a Single Output Channel

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7jmpozner...rsion.pdf?dl=0
Jeff, thanks for the link but I do not believe you need a Mini DSP when the subs have their own independent time delay controls...that is one of the big advantages of ICE amps.

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@basshead81 something is screwy with REW and its new distance/delay calculations. I am running v5.19 beta 3.

I swear, this works absolutely flawlessly with my sealed subs upstairs.

I went as far as to swap amplifiers on my ported subs between the two subs because of the erratic results. With the new ported subs, while my readings are repeatable (as long as the mic is not moved) the results are wonky with just small movements of the mic position. I'm talking 10ms to 30ms to 70ms with just 3-5 ft movements of the mic position. I remove the furniture from the room and everything is fine.

The furniture seems to be altering phase at certain frequencies. This seems to f'up the REW calculation. Look at the phase overlays and you can see what I am talking about.

I don't see any other choice but to remove the furniture to time align and then replace. WWAD? (What Would Audyssey subEQ DO?)
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Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , v1500 , V1800 , v1801 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15
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