Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1128 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33811 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Brent A View Post
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
This graph is subs only, crossed over at 80hz, Audyssey xt32 on, S3600I delay 0 and S3000I delay 9 o clock. I get a better reading across all 3 seats by leaving the S3600I delay at 0 and adjust the delay on the S3000I. I did all adjustments pre-Audyssey xt32.
Do you have XT32 with SubEQ? If so are you seeing improvements in manually setting the delay before running Audyssey? I've always read that Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ is very good at getting the delays set and that that there is no benefit to manually adjusting them first. Is this correct or is it still worth playing with the delays first then running Audyssey?

In my 3 seat arrangement, I have a couple of dips in the left seat, a good sized dip at 40hz at the center seat (MLP) and it's just about flat in the right seat. I'm not too concerned about the left and right seats and just want to concentrate on getting my response better at MLP.
Yes, I have xt32 SubEQ. I took the advice of @basshead81 and @hopinater that first get the best responce before running any form of calibration software. I tried it both ways and getting the best responce before running audyssey xt32 resulted with a flatter responce. It takes time, measure, adjust the delay several times and take more measurents and if your not happy its time to try the subs in different positions and spots and start the whole process over until you're happy then run the calibration software in your receiver or Pre-amp.
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post #33812 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 03:26 PM
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Uh oh guys! I'm a little nervous have you seen the top secret testing of the all new Svs pb-19?!
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post #33813 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Yes, I have xt32 SubEQ. I took the advice of @basshead81 and @hopinator that first get the best responce before running any form of calibration software. I tried it both ways and getting the best responce before running audyssey xt32 resulted with a flatter responce. It takes time, measure, adjust the delay several times and take more measurents and if your not happy its time to try the subs in different positions and spots and start the whole process over until you're happy then run the calabration software in your receiver or Pre-amp.
Thanks for the follow up Mike. I have always worked on getting the best response possible before running Audyssey and I have been limiting that to positioning only. I'll start playing with the then delay as well.

Thanks again.
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post #33814 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 05:31 PM
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Thanks for the follow up Mike. I have always worked on getting the best response possible before running Audyssey and I have been limiting that to positioning only. I'll start playing with the then delay as well.

Thanks again.
It's best to keep your measurements (graphs) saved to a folder so you can compare before and after measurements. Like Mike said he tried getting the best response using manual time alignment (delays) prior to running REQ and then without any delay adjustments. This way you'll know if you're going in the right direction.
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post #33815 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 08:11 PM
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Just tried to watch the opening of Live Die Repeat at -20, mostly to identify and fix vibrations in the room. Got some port noise and had to back it down. What a bass note! What sub can play that at reference? I am 9db hot, but have DEQ off.

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post #33816 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Yes, I have xt32 SubEQ. I took the advice of @basshead81 and @hopinater that first get the best responce before running any form of calibration software. I tried it both ways and getting the best responce before running audyssey xt32 resulted with a flatter responce. It takes time, measure, adjust the delay several times and take more measurents and if your not happy its time to try the subs in different positions and spots and start the whole process over until you're happy then run the calibration software in your receiver or Pre-amp.
I only think manual setting of delays is necessary when you have more than 2 subs. How many do you have?

What method are you using to set the delays?
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post #33817 of 33832 Old 05-20-2017, 10:49 PM
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I only think manual setting of delays is necessary when you have more than 2 subs. How many do you have?

What method are you using to set the delays?

I have 2 subs, S3600I and S3000I. I have both subs up front just inside of the left and right speaker stands. I measured the subs in multiple spots up front and with the driver's in multiple positions and I found with the drivers facing front and back and placing the subs as far away from each other up front that they measured the best. I then measured each sub separately in the left, middle, and right positions of the couch and then I measured both subs together with their delays at 0. The problem with having both delays at zero was I had nulls/dips from 60-80hz from the middle and right seat positions, the graph looked nasty. I then left the S3000I'S delay at 0 and adjusted the S3600I'S delay several times and measured each movement of the delay. I then set the S3600I'S delay at zero and adjusted the S3000I'S delay and measured and bingo. I was getting a better result with leaving the S3600I'S delay at zero and adjusting the S3000I'S delay. I would slightly move the delay and measure all 3 seats, then move the delay slightly higher and re-measure and those nulls/dips started disappearing. I now have the exact measurement throughout the entire couch except for the dip between 77-80hz. That dip extends maybe 2dbs more from the middle and 4dbs more from the right side compared to the left side ( my seat) of the couch.
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

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post #33818 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have 2 subs, S3600I and S3000I. I have both subs up front just inside of the left and right speaker stands. I measured the subs in multiple spots up front and with the driver's in multiple positions and I found with the drivers facing front and back and placing the subs as far away from each other up front that they measured the best. I then measured each sub separately in the left, middle, and right positions of the couch and then I measured both subs together with their delays at 0. The problem with having both delays at zero was I had nulls/dips from 60-80hz from the middle and right seat positions, the graph looked nasty. I then left the S3000I'S delay at 0 and adjusted the S3600I'S delay several times and measured each movement of the delay. I then set the S3600I'S delay at zero and adjusted the S3000I'S delay and measured and bingo. I was getting a better result with leaving the S3600I'S delay at zero and adjusting the S3000I'S delay. I would slightly move the delay and measure all 3 seats, then move the delay slightly higher and re-measure and those nulls/dips started disappearing. I now have the exact measurement throughout the entire couch except for the dip between 77-80hz. That dip extends maybe 2dbs more from the middle and 4dbs more from the right side compared to the left side ( my seat) of the couch.
Personally, with just 2 subs I would let Audyssey set the delays. If you are going to set them manually you need to use REW to align them. REW V5.19 beta 5 was just posted today and fixes the issue in measuring timing uncovered by @basshead81 .

Why did you go with a S3000i instead of a second S3600i? Are you not able to place the S3000i closer to the MLP?

I wish I had known you were in the market for a S3000i. I am selling my Cordovan Cherry.
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post #33819 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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It's not easy finding the RA Gamma 21 dimensions but here they are:


http://www.audioholics.com/recommend...mparison-guide
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Meh, someone might as well enjoy them. I just can't get over the reality of the situation though. I mean, you pay the premium for (arguably)the best amplification + DSP flexibility in the industry. You have Brian a phone call away if needed for help. And you ship out a generic mess with absolutely zero system optimization. Ugh.

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Doesn't sound bad at all for the first DSP edit. A few hours outside can work wonders these days..

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Any update on the Gamma-21s?
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post #33820 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Personally, with just 2 subs I would let Audyssey set the delays. If you are going to set them manually you need to use REW to align them. REW V5.19 beta 5 was just posted today and fixes the issue in measuring timing uncovered by @basshead81 .

Why did you go with a S3000i instead of a second S3600i? Are you not able to place the S3000i closer to the MLP?

I wish I had known you were in the market for a S3000i. I am selling my Cordovan Cherry.
Nice! I will download and try it out tomorrow.
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post #33821 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
I have 2 subs, S3600I and S3000I. I have both subs up front just inside of the left and right speaker stands. I measured the subs in multiple spots up front and with the driver's in multiple positions and I found with the drivers facing front and back and placing the subs as far away from each other up front that they measured the best. I then measured each sub separately in the left, middle, and right positions of the couch and then I measured both subs together with their delays at 0. The problem with having both delays at zero was I had nulls/dips from 60-80hz from the middle and right seat positions, the graph looked nasty. I then left the S3000I'S delay at 0 and adjusted the S3600I'S delay several times and measured each movement of the delay. I then set the S3600I'S delay at zero and adjusted the S3000I'S delay and measured and bingo. I was getting a better result with leaving the S3600I'S delay at zero and adjusting the S3000I'S delay. I would slightly move the delay and measure all 3 seats, then move the delay slightly higher and re-measure and those nulls/dips started disappearing. I now have the exact measurement throughout the entire couch except for the dip between 77-80hz. That dip extends maybe 2dbs more from the middle and 4dbs more from the right side compared to the left side ( my seat) of the couch.
Personally, with just 2 subs I would let Audyssey set the delays. If you are going to set them manually you need to use REW to align them. REW V5.19 beta 5 was just posted today and fixes the issue in measuring timing uncovered by @basshead81 .

Why did you go with a S3000i instead of a second S3600i? Are you not able to place the S3000i closer to the MLP?

I wish I had known you were in the market for a S3000i. I am selling my Cordovan Cherry.
I did use REW. Thats how I dialed in the delays. My graph looks better when I first dial the subs in and then run Audyssey. I picked up the S3000I because its within 1db from 25hz and below to my S3600I. It was a better match compared to my XS30SE and for the B-stock price it was a no brainer. My plan is to go the AT screen route and have 4 -6 subs up front stacked in the left and right sides/ corners. I plan on buying B-stock S3000I or S3600I subs. My next purchase is an AT screen followed my more subs.
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post #33822 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 05:33 PM
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I did use REW. Thats how I dialed in the delays. My graph looks better when I first dial the subs in and then run Audyssey. I picked up the S3000I because its within 1db from 25hz and below to my S3600I. It was a better match compared to my XS30SE and for the B-stock price it was a no brainer. My plan is to go the AT screen route and have 4 -6 subs up front stacked in the left and right sides/ corners. I plan on buying B-stock S3000I or S3600I subs. My next purchase is an AT screen followed my more subs.
That makes sense. Any way you can make room for a sub/stack off of the front wall? If not, I would get them as close to the sidewalls/corners as possible.
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post #33823 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM
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@Mike H ow does it sound with manual delay and then Audyssey compared to just running Audy XT32 SUB EQ, regardless of the graphs? Have you noticed anything you preferred or are you just comparing FR graphs? Thanks.
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post #33824 of 33832 Old Yesterday, 06:43 PM
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@Mike H ow does it sound with manual delay and then Audyssey compared to just running Audy XT32 SUB EQ, regardless of the graphs? Have you noticed anything you preferred or are you just comparing FR graphs? Thanks.
Jeffrey, you have 3 subs right? You definitely should manually time align. It is so easy with the latest REW beta, v.5.19 beta 5 (acoustic timing reference).
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post #33825 of 33832 Old Today, 06:04 AM
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@Mike H ow does it sound with manual delay and then Audyssey compared to just running Audy XT32 SUB EQ, regardless of the graphs? Have you noticed anything you preferred or are you just comparing FR graphs? Thanks.
I have tried adjusting the delays before and after running Audyssey and really have not noticed a sound difference. I would assume the correct way would be to adjust the delays before you run Audyssey and then let Audyssey dial everything in based on the delays that we set.

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post #33826 of 33832 Old Today, 06:19 AM
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Jeffrey, you have 3 subs right? You definitely should manually time align. It is so easy with the latest REW beta, v.5.19 beta 5 (acoustic timing reference).
Now that it's fixed, I've got to try this acoustic timing feature for my next calibration after adding the S3000i...especially mixing this many subs. I have mostly just used REW to measure for the best response, the subwoofer distance tweak, and occasionally the MINIDSP when necessary to add more latency.

Now to figure out which order to do them all in...

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post #33827 of 33832 Old Today, 07:09 AM
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Now to figure out which order to do them all in...
Start with the furthest from the MLP (leave it at 0ms) and match the others to it.
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post #33828 of 33832 Old Today, 08:38 AM
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Start with the furthest from the MLP (leave it at 0ms) and match the others to it.
Thanks! I'll have a couple more days off work than I thought, so I'll try my best to get them all dialed in for a few listening sessions before I leave for two weeks. The S3000I is till on schedule to arrive tomorrow afternoon, but I likely can't set up until Wednesday.

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post #33829 of 33832 Old Today, 09:14 AM
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Any update on the Gamma-21s?
Hi Marc,

The plan is to get them outside again soon and get the (hopefully)final round of measurements. I think we have the DSP about as good as it is going to get. We might get out today, depends on the weather.

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Uh oh guys! I'm a little nervous have you seen the top secret testing of the all new Svs pb-19?!
https://youtu.be/PtVdB52eqd0
I wish someone else wouldve asked lol , but im not exactly sure what im watching??? Something for real or this some satire im missing about SVS???

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post #33831 of 33832 Old Today, 10:01 AM
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I wish someone else wouldve asked lol , but im not exactly sure what im watching??? Something for real or this some satire im missing about SVS???
Just me being silly. (At least attempting to be)
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post #33832 of 33832 Old Today, 12:14 PM
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Just me being silly. (At least attempting to be)
OK , I kinda thought thats what it was...So is this like a mini-sub or something?

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