Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1159 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #34741 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 01:00 AM
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Fast 8 = decent movie with a few bass moments but nothing special.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #34742 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 01:40 AM
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Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

Had some decent bass on the original Triax.
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post #34743 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
This is not my full review of the V1801. Even though the 15" Seaton MFW-15 Turbo and Rythmik FV15HP have more output from 16-25Hz I would still choose the V1801 over any of the 15" subs available. I believe the new high-excursion driver delivers excellent tactile energy and that is worth more than any SPL measurement IME.
Thanks Marc for sharing. Would you pick S1801 over V1801 then to get higher output in movies within 16-25Hz given your findings in respect of port chuffing beyond the limits of V1801? Will it deliver same tactile energy?
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post #34744 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Thanks Marc for sharing. Would you pick S1801 over V1801 then to get higher output in movies within 16-25Hz given your findings in respect of port chuffing beyond the limits of V1801? Will it deliver same tactile energy?
For movies, I would still pick V1801 over S1801. When all else being equal, the ported sub should have 8~12dB more output around port tune which is 16~25Hz. The ported V1801 should also deliver more tactile response.

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post #34745 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Fast 8 = decent movie with a few bass moments but nothing special.
Exacly Mike Butny. seemed liked they had a few moments while watching had me thinking okay here come some LFE.....and a mere small vibration on the couch. Maybe I will just have to run this one hotter. Glad I rented.
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post #34746 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Thanks Marc for sharing. Would you pick S1801 over V1801 then to get higher output in movies within 16-25Hz given your findings in respect of port chuffing beyond the limits of V1801? Will it deliver same tactile energy?
A ported sub will have a lot more tactile kick than similar sealed sub in most situations, for several reasons.

1) Ported subs have drastically higher output around tune, often 2-4x the output of a comparable sealed sub. Because of this, sealed subs will often simply hit their output limits and compress and stop getting louder even thought the signal might call for it.

2) Let's assume both subs will play at the required SPL level without excessive distortion or compression. In most circumstances, the ported sub will produce higher SPL at the same MV level due to the greater efficiency around port tune gives the ported sub a more aggressive frequency response in that area.

3) Let's assume that enough eq has been applied to a sealed sub so that it actually produces the same output at the same MV as a ported sub would. The ported sub will stave have A LOT more tactile effect due to the ported alignment.

Again though, for anyone who does not have both the eq capability to substantially boost the low end on sealed subs along with the displacement required to do so without compressing/limiting, ported subs will just hit much harder down low.

Coming from the owner of two sealed subs.
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post #34747 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

Had some decent bass on the original Triax.
There was a low budget movie on Prime I watched a while back. About a group of teenagers lost in the woods. Whoever did the sound forgot to click "on" for the highpass. Anytime the wind blew during a dialogue drive scene I would watch the office subwoofer(s) go nuts. I can't remember the movie now and to be honest it was sort of like the intro to EoT...just a bunch of noise that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. But I'll try to track it down if I have a few minutes today. Also, anyone with a Roku who enjoys older movies should check this free channel out.

https://www.rokuguide.com/channels/the-nerdaclysm

The movies range from classics(imo) like the original The Time Machine, Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Mummy, The Wolfman to some of the best "campy" sci-fi you could ask for---Plan 9, King Kong vs. Godzilla. Plus they have some stooges, Hitchcock's tv series and just a BUNCH of cool (older)stuff. The best part is they all seem to be in their original aspect, with the original run times and ZERO commercials.

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post #34748 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
There was a low budget movie on Prime I watched a while back. About a group of teenagers lost in the woods. Whoever did the sound forgot to click "on" for the highpass. Anytime the wind blew during a dialogue drive scene I would watch the office subwoofer(s) go nuts. I can't remember the movie now and to be honest it was sort of like the intro to EoT...just a bunch of noise that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. But I'll try to track it down if I have a few minutes today. Also, anyone with a Roku who enjoys older movies should check this free channel out.

https://www.rokuguide.com/channels/the-nerdaclysm

The movies range from classics(imo) like the original The Time Machine, Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Mummy, The Wolfman to some of the best "campy" sci-fi you could ask for---Plan 9, King Kong vs. Godzilla. Plus they have some stooges, Hitchcock's tv series and just a BUNCH of cool (older)stuff. The best part is they all seem to be in their original aspect, with the original run times and ZERO commercials.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Alright Tom, time for a spoiler. What's up with the new top of the line sub? Quad opposed 15? Dual opposed top and bottom firing cylinder? Inquiring minds want to know. Wait....dual opposed 21? Horn?
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post #34749 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 08:12 AM
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Whats up psa family!? Been a long time since i logged in, im sure i missed a lot ha! Hows everyone enjoying there psa gear? I know i still havent found one single complaint with the t18s yet

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post #34750 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Thanks Marc for sharing. Would you pick S1801 over V1801 then to get higher output in movies within 16-25Hz given your findings in respect of port chuffing beyond the limits of V1801? Will it deliver same tactile energy?
My answer depends on your room.

In a large room open to other rooms, ported subs are a better choice unless you have several grand to spend on sealed subs. They are also a better choice for concrete subfloors IMO.

However, in a smaller room (<3000ft³) there is cabin gain that occurs which a sealed subs shallow roll off takes better advantage of (often down to 8Hz or below). An upstairs room or room with wood subfloor (like those built with a crawl space or basement) will transfer more tactile energy and sealed subs are my preference in this scenario (not everyone's).

If you are chasing deep bass response there are other ported solutions. I would recommend a pair of V1500s or 15Vs over a single V1801. Also, don't forget to check the PSA outlet or chat with Tom for discounted, like-new returns.
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post #34751 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Thanks Marc for sharing. Would you pick S1801 over V1801 then to get higher output in movies within 16-25Hz given your findings in respect of port chuffing beyond the limits of V1801? Will it deliver same tactile energy?
Will this sub be used alone or with other subs and if so which ones?

What size room, how far will it be located from you? Near-field, far-field?

I would lean towards the S1801 because you wouldn't have to worry about any port noise especially if you use Audyssey and if you listen to content that has material below 20hz and at high volumes with Aduyessy boosting down low. Also, a near-field sealed 18" directly behind your main listening position if you can make it work is pretty impressive. It will take a room FULL of ported 18" subwoofers to get the same or even similar levels of tactile feel and you can get that tactile feel down to the single digits that you cannot get from a ported.

Another benefit of the NF is you can still get really good tactile feel at even lower listening levels so you don't disturb other people in your house or in my case my neighbors across the street before I started using a NF. Crowsons/bass shakers are nice but I would take a NF over my Crowson and I haven't even turned my Crowson on in the last month or two. Great for music too and added impact in the midbass.

If you want to read more about NF sealed 18" read the ULF or MBM thread and guys will multiples(4-8) 18" talk about how even 1 sealed 18" NF added so much. I consider it a MUST try. I have even tried just a single 18" behind my MLP and it worked well and actually was not any more localizable than placed elsewhere in the room, it is best used with multiple subs spread around the room for a more immersive "feel" but can be made to work pretty well even used alone.

Both threads are huge but these last few pages have some info if you want to read more about it.

Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

Your Home Theater ULF Score

.............

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post #34752 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 09:31 AM
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Whats up psa family!? Been a long time since i logged in, im sure i missed a lot ha! Hows everyone enjoying there psa gear? I know i still havent found one single complaint with the t18s yet
Sup buddy! Glad to see ya back....it's been action packed here lately.
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post #34753 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 10:09 AM
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Sup buddy! Glad to see ya back....it's been action packed here lately.
Good hearing from you bro! Yes im starting to see its been kind of a mess. I got some real catchin up to do
Lol
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post #34754 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
My answer depends on your room.

In a large room open to other rooms, ported subs are a better choice unless you have several grand to spend on sealed subs. They are also a better choice for concrete subfloors IMO.

However, in a smaller room (<3000ft³) there is cabin gain that occurs which a sealed subs shallow roll off takes better advantage of (often down to 8Hz or below). An upstairs room or room with wood subfloor (like those built with a crawl space or basement) will transfer more tactile energy and sealed subs are my preference in this scenario (not everyone's).

If you are chasing deep bass response there are other ported solutions. I would recommend a pair of V1500s or 15Vs over a single V1801. Also, don't forget to check the PSA outlet or chat with Tom for discounted, like-new returns.
Thanks, Marc. I definitely want to chase for duals, may be one-by-one. So choice is really between dual sealed and ported 1801s (may be dual 15v alternatively to get less footprint). So was wandering if sealed may be a better option given port noise issue.

The room is ca 3000ft3, but with openings to the left (balcony) and to the right (kitchen and hall), so total volume may be easily double of that. The MLP just around 10 feet from the subs.
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post #34755 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
Will this sub be used alone or with other subs and if so which ones?

What size room, how far will it be located from you? Near-field, far-field?

I would lean towards the S1801 because you wouldn't have to worry about any port noise especially if you use Audyssey and if you listen to content that has material below 20hz and at high volumes with Aduyessy boosting down low. Also, a near-field sealed 18" directly behind your main listening position if you can make it work is pretty impressive. It will take a room FULL of ported 18" subwoofers to get the same or even similar levels of tactile feel and you can get that tactile feel down to the single digits that you cannot get from a ported.

Another benefit of the NF is you can still get really good tactile feel at even lower listening levels so you don't disturb other people in your house or in my case my neighbors across the street before I started using a NF. Crowsons/bass shakers are nice but I would take a NF over my Crowson and I haven't even turned my Crowson on in the last month or two. Great for music too and added impact in the midbass.

If you want to read more about NF sealed 18" read the ULF or MBM thread and guys will multiples(4-8) 18" talk about how even 1 sealed 18" NF added so much. I consider it a MUST try. I have even tried just a single 18" behind my MLP and it worked well and actually was not any more localizable than placed elsewhere in the room, it is best used with multiple subs spread around the room for a more immersive "feel" but can be made to work pretty well even used alone.

Both threads are huge but these last few pages have some info if you want to read more about it.

Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

Your Home Theater ULF Score

.............
Yeah, that's great idea. Thanks, bscool. In my specific case, near field doesn't work, as kids are running around Need to go far field (ca 10 feet) in 3000ft3 room with large openings to the left and to the right (it hardly can be named as sealed room).
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post #34756 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 02:07 PM
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Thanks to @chucky7 and @bear123
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post #34757 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Thanks, Marc. I definitely want to chase for duals, may be one-by-one. So choice is really between dual sealed and ported 1801s (may be dual 15v alternatively to get less footprint). So was wandering if sealed may be a better option given port noise issue.

The room is ca 3000ft3, but with openings to the left (balcony) and to the right (kitchen and hall), so total volume may be easily double of that. The MLP just around 10 feet from the subs.
Dual V1801s have a similar footprint to the ported 15s. Like I said earlier, I would choose the V1801s over most 15s for the tactile impact. The other 18" options from other vendors are much larger and not as living room friendly as the V1801 IMO (more for dedicated media rooms). The only reason I didn't go V1801s for my downstairs den at the time was price & veneer. Having a wood veneer (SS MFW-15 T) increased the WAF where I have placement freedom. The V1801s were more than I wanted to spend for a secondary system.

In a 3000ft³ room two V1801s should not have any issues with chuffing. You should get usable output down to 20Hz. There is not much content below this point and many people can't even hear the tones near 16Hz.

I believe the V1801 is your best choice from PSA and probably your best choice overall unless you can accommodate the more expensive, larger, and less attractive bass finish (IMO) of a JTR Captivator.
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post #34758 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OKGeek View Post
Thanks, Marc. I definitely want to chase for duals, may be one-by-one. So choice is really between dual sealed and ported 1801s (may be dual 15v alternatively to get less footprint). So was wandering if sealed may be a better option given port noise issue.

The room is ca 3000ft3, but with openings to the left (balcony) and to the right (kitchen and hall), so total volume may be easily double of that. The MLP just around 10 feet from the subs.
Hi,

Other people have already said this, but I think it is worth some additional emphasis. The issue with port chuffing has been overblown. All ported subs can be made to chuff at certain frequencies and under certain conditions. For the great majority of ported sub owners, chuffing will never be an audible problem with any normal content. Sine waves are not normal content.

If you want to experience louder bass below about 35Hz, ported subs have a significant advantage over sealed subs. Sealed subs will never chuff, but they also won't give you the same low bass SPL and tactile impact that the larger ported subs will. And, to get equivalent low bass SPL, it may take two sealed subs for every ported sub.

If there are specific sound qualities that you prefer with sealed subs, or if the smaller form factor is a major consideration, then sealed subs could be a very good option for you. But, don't let concern for potential port chuffing issues scare you away from ported subs. There are thousands of ported subs sold every year, in the US alone, and very few listeners report any problems with real world content. And, when they do, it is probably related more to specific room modes, in that particular room and sub placement, than to anything else.

If at all possible, try to go somewhere to listen to a ported sub or two and decide for yourself whether there is something that would prevent you from enjoying the additional low frequency SPL that a ported sub can provide. Or, if you decide that you don't need that much low bass SPL, then sealed subs might be the better choice. But, chuffing concerns shouldn't be part of your decision-making process, in my opinion.

Regards,
Mike
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post #34759 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Whats up psa family!? Been a long time since i logged in, im sure i missed a lot ha! Hows everyone enjoying there psa gear? I know i still havent found one single complaint with the t18s yet
Welcome back my friend, glad you're safe and sound. Don't bother trying to catch up cause you haven't missed anything in the last week or so. Good listening to you....
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post #34760 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
There was a low budget movie on Prime I watched a while back. About a group of teenagers lost in the woods. Whoever did the sound forgot to click "on" for the highpass. Anytime the wind blew during a dialogue drive scene I would watch the office subwoofer(s) go nuts. I can't remember the movie now and to be honest it was sort of like the intro to EoT...just a bunch of noise that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. But I'll try to track it down if I have a few minutes today. Also, anyone with a Roku who enjoys older movies should check this free channel out.

https://www.rokuguide.com/channels/the-nerdaclysm

The movies range from classics(imo) like the original The Time Machine, Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Mummy, The Wolfman to some of the best "campy" sci-fi you could ask for---Plan 9, King Kong vs. Godzilla. Plus they have some stooges, Hitchcock's tv series and just a BUNCH of cool (older)stuff. The best part is they all seem to be in their original aspect, with the original run times and ZERO commercials.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Alright Tom, time for a spoiler. What's up with the new top of the line sub? Quad opposed 15? Dual opposed top and bottom firing cylinder? Inquiring minds want to know. Wait....dual opposed 21? Horn?
Keep checking the website. It should be annouced soon and all I can say is WOW!!!!!
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post #34761 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 05:30 PM
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I think I'm going to check out Fast 8 and try the Iron Fist series.
Me and a co worker both got about half way through Iron Fist and stopped watching. Just my 2 cents. Wait, he fast forwarded and watched the ending and said it still wasnt worth it.

The PSA setup sounded great though
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post #34762 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 06:11 PM
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Keep checking the website. It should be annouced soon and all I can say is WOW!!!!!
I'm confused is a new T18 coming out?
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post #34763 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 06:18 PM
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I'm confused is a new T18 coming out?
The T18 design has been abandoned. Apparently @newc33 and I were the only fans of the Triax/T18 design. As per Tom:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The new sub will be sealed and a bit larger than the S3601 to be sure. We're still balancing the big three---size/performance/price.

>>> Care to shed a bit more light Tom? With Rythmik almost ready with 18" ers and JTR updating their subs, it is a very confusing( and a good time ) for guys like me doing sub shopping. If your new flagship is the REAL deal, I would like to postpone my shopping a bit<<<

I wouldn't wait to pull the trigger really. If you are comparing another brand to our current stuff(the larger S3601 and V3601 specifically) and feel like notwe're checking the majority of your "boxes" now...I'd doubt the new woof will change your mind. It's just more of the same..

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post #34764 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 07:09 PM
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Me and a co worker both got about half way through Iron Fist and stopped watching. Just my 2 cents. Wait, he fast forwarded and watched the ending and said it still wasnt worth it.

The PSA setup sounded great though
I read the review of the series and you summed it up very well. I guess I will skip it.
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post #34765 of 37111 Old 07-15-2017, 07:13 PM
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[quote=Marc Alexander;54308401]The T18 design has been abandoned. Apparently @newc33 and I were the only fans of the Triax/T18 design. As per Tom:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The new sub will be sealed and a bit larger than the S3601 to be sure. We're still balancing the big three---size/performance/price.

>>> Care to shed a bit more light Tom? With Rythmik almost ready with 18" ers and JTR updating their subs, it is a very confusing( and a good time ) for guys like me doing sub shopping. If your new flagship is the REAL deal, I would like to postpone my shopping a bit
Yeah!!!!! You might want to post pone it until PSA updates their website which should be very soon, possibly this weekend.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #34766 of 37111 Old 07-16-2017, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Dual V1801s have a similar footprint to the ported 15s. The other 18" options from other vendors are much larger and not as living room friendly as the V1801 IMO (more for dedicated media rooms).

In a 3000ft³ room two V1801s should not have any issues with chuffing. You should get usable output down to 20Hz. There is not much content below this point and many people can't even hear the tones near 16Hz.

I believe the V1801 is your best choice from PSA and probably your best choice overall unless you can accommodate the more expensive, larger, and less attractive bass finish (IMO) of a JTR Captivator.
That's exactly my case, so it seems we have a winner to be purchased soon Thanks guys.


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post #34767 of 37111 Old 07-16-2017, 09:05 AM
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That's exactly my case, so it seems we have a winner to be purchased soon Thanks guys.


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Great choice! In a 3Kft^3 space, dual V1801 will dominate 99% of all movie and music content. With a little room gain, you should be reference capable from 20 - 100Hz and beyond.

A pair of V1801 offers very formidable bass reinforcement, especially for their compact size.

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post #34768 of 37111 Old 07-16-2017, 09:58 AM
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Introducing the S7201.
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Jim Farina
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post #34769 of 37111 Old 07-16-2017, 10:03 AM
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Introducing the S7201.
Wtf?! Nice!!!!

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post #34770 of 37111 Old 07-16-2017, 10:03 AM
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Introducing the S7201.
Holy Bat Guano...That looks like a serious beast
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