Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1193 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35761 of 37089 Old 08-11-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fastninja76 View Post
Ahhh ok. I guess I need to look at their costs and see what my needs justify spending . Thanks!

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For what you are looking to do the UMIK-1 or UMM-6 is perfectly fine. If you want to take more accurate higher spl sweeps(>120db) the UMM-6 would be better. Contact Herb at Cross spectrum.
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post #35762 of 37089 Old 08-11-2017, 12:56 PM
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For what you are looking to do the UMIK-1 or UMM-6 is perfectly fine. If you want to take more accurate higher spl sweeps(>120db) the UMM-6 would be better. Contact Herb at Cross spectrum.
Yeah I can't see myself needing to go over 120db. Thanks!

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post #35763 of 37089 Old 08-11-2017, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
For what you are looking to do the UMIK-1 or UMM-6 is perfectly fine. If you want to take more accurate higher spl sweeps(>120db) the UMM-6 would be better. Contact Herb at Cross spectrum.
Yeah I can't see myself needing to go over 120db. Thanks!

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Pffft! WHATEVER! Speak for yourself dude. LOL
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post #35764 of 37089 Old 08-11-2017, 02:41 PM
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Just get the $80 UMIK-1.

There is actually no need to get a calibrated one that cost more than $100. I noticed that the difference is in the accuracy under 25Hz. Then even a $100 measurement mic is not good enough.

If you change the sensitivity on the UMIK-1 and the calibration file, you can still measure > 120 dB.

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post #35765 of 37089 Old 08-11-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quick update to my quest to find a good wireless sub transmitter..

I had bought and returned the "Rocketfish Wireless sub transmitter" due to bad interference and strange noises I was hearing. A few other guys on here advised they had similar problems with it but suggested the "infinity" version. So far so good!! I ran YPAO, which put my sub at 44 feet lol. Anyway, I didn't get the weird horn noise I was hearing with the RF version, and have had no odd noises.

So, if youre looking to get rid of a long wire running out to your sub, THIS IS THE ONE TO GET!

Just thought I'd share.

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post #35766 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by fastninja76 View Post
Quick update to my quest to find a good wireless sub transmitter..



I had bought and returned the "Rocketfish Wireless sub transmitter" due to bad interference and strange noises I was hearing. A few other guys on here advised they had similar problems with it but suggested the "infinity" version. So far so good!! I ran YPAO, which put my sub at 44 feet lol. Anyway, I didn't get the weird horn noise I was hearing with the RF version, and have had no odd noises.



So, if youre looking to get rid of a long wire running out to your sub, THIS IS THE ONE TO GET!



Just thought I'd share.


I've no experience but Martin Logan offers one as well. I'm sure it is more expensive though.

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post #35767 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 07:54 AM
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I've no experience but Martin Logan offers one as well. I'm sure it is more expensive though.
Haha probably. It's just odd that this one transmits at the same frequency, yet has zero interference like the RF one did. Who knows!

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post #35768 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 10:45 AM
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Haha probably. It's just odd that this one transmits at the same frequency, yet has zero interference like the RF one did. Who knows!

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Finally a subject that I know a little about. There is a lot of FM (f'n magic) involved with radio transmitters and receivers. Transmit/receive power, modulation of the carrier signal and audio, antenna design, etc. These are not much different that a WiFi router. They experience the same interference as any other type of radio. Using a frequency that is common in your home could cause problems.

2.4 GHz is a notoriously busy freq in a home. Channel spacing plays a big part in their function as well as their modulation freq. Do you have a 2.4 GHz Wireless N router? A 2.4 GHz cordless phone? Most 802.11n wireless devices work on the 2.4 GHz band. Your cell phone, TV, fridge, media player, computer/laptop, picture frames, Network Attached Storage devices, routers... the list goes on and on. They are all working on the same "line of sight" 2.4 GHz frequency.

Let me know if you run into any more problems and I will try to help you troubleshoot the issue. You can download a wifi analyzer for your phone to see how busy the 2.4 GHz band is in your house too.
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post #35769 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Finally a subject that I know a little about. There is a lot of FM (f'n magic) involved with radio transmitters and receivers. Transmit/receive power, modulation of the carrier signal and audio, antenna design, etc. These are not much different that a WiFi router. They experience the same interference as any other type of radio. Using a frequency that is common in your home could cause problems.

2.4 GHz is a notoriously busy freq in a home. Channel spacing plays a big part in their function as well as their modulation freq. Do you have a 2.4 GHz Wireless N router? A 2.4 GHz cordless phone? Most 802.11n wireless devices work on the 2.4 GHz band. Your cell phone, TV, fridge, media player, computer/laptop, picture frames, Network Attached Storage devices, routers... the list goes on and on. They are all working on the same "line of sight" 2.4 GHz frequency.

Let me know if you run into any more problems and I will try to help you troubleshoot the issue. You can download a wifi analyzer for your phone to see how busy the 2.4 GHz band is in your house too.
Yeah that all makes sense. When I bought the RF version, I thought it ran at 5ghz, but I soon found out it ran at that 2.4 ghz. So when I started getting all that weird interference, I wasn't that surprised. Then, a member here on AVS advised he had the same issues but had switched to this new one and had zero problems. Again, I assumed it had to be because it was running near 5ghz. WRONG! After I received it, right there on the box it said "2.4ghz". I figured I'd get the same problem. Nope! Works like a charm. I have a dual Wi-Fi set up running 2.4 ghz and 5 ghz. For some reason, this new one isn't affected like the RF was. Whatever the reason (Everything you listed), I'm a happy camper!

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post #35770 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 11:07 AM
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You can download a wifi analyzer for your phone to see how busy the 2.4 GHz band is in your house too.
I have WiFi Analyzer for Android but it only shows WiFi APs. Do you know of an app that will show other interference in the WiFi bands?
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post #35771 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 11:21 AM
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I have WiFi Analyzer for Android but it only shows WiFi APs. Do you know of an app that will show other interference in the WiFi bands?


My router has a section that shows the channels that are in use and cluttered. I've never looked for an app.

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post #35772 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 11:45 AM
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You can download a wifi analyzer for your phone to see how busy the 2.4 GHz band is in your house too.
I have WiFi Analyzer for Android but it only shows WiFi APs. Do you know of an app that will show other interference in the WiFi bands?
Not for android that I know of. There is software for Windows and Linux out there for wireless surveying that shows interference.

edit: these apps usually require an additional RF transmitter/receiver to scan the entire frequency range. They are expensive and the learning curve is high.

Flying Squirrel is good tool but also requires some additional hardware and learning. That's getting into the professional wireless and security arena though.

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post #35773 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fastninja76 View Post
Haha probably. It's just odd that this one transmits at the same frequency, yet has zero interference like the RF one did. Who knows!

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Is this the one?

I want to grab one and give it the old twice-over..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1T0FG5NC&psc=1

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post #35774 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 07:53 PM
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Is this the one?

I want to grab one and give it the old twice-over..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1T0FG5NC&psc=1

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Bingo! Looks like garbage, but works flawlessly.

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post #35775 of 37089 Old 08-12-2017, 10:42 PM
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Man..I'll tell you guys, I'm over here watching the goofy XXX Return of Xander Cage at only -30 and my three subs are sounding amazing.
I'm actually a little scared what the fourth is going to do! Lol
On a side note I'm looking around my room going over different placements for all of them.
Oooh, maybe one over there, no no maybe two nearfield, wait...maybe stack two over in that corner and two in the other..
So many possibilities!
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post #35776 of 37089 Old 08-13-2017, 10:26 AM
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Man..I'll tell you guys, I'm over here watching the goofy XXX Return of Xander Cage at only -30 and my three subs are sounding amazing.
I'm actually a little scared what the fourth is going to do! Lol
On a side note I'm looking around my room going over different placements for all of them.
Oooh, maybe one over there, no no maybe two nearfield, wait...maybe stack two over in that corner and two in the other..
So many possibilities!
Yeah suba I feel your enthusiasm, I did this for too many years to keep track of, now I just want the biggest single sub that I can fit nicely in my space and look at it daily and admire, then fire it up, that's where the 7201 comes in. I got the three V1801s sounding very good, scary good but they're scattered all over my room. I'm not even coming close to the headroom left over with these 3 subs. I listened way louder than I normally do the other night at -8 with the subs all 6dB hot.

I watched Hacksaw Ridge for the first time at this level and just wasn't ready for the first battle scene when the ships started firing on the ridge and then when they climbed up the ropes that did me in. The misses came running down and her exact words were "I hope your health insurance pays for hearing aids, seriously, what is wrong with you"? So I said OK honey I'll just get one sub instead of three and she was happy. So I'm good till the the truck comes with a lift and a portable folk lift to deliver the 7201 in a refrigerator box, I asked Jim to put a Home Dept label on the box, should be no problem at all......
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post #35777 of 37089 Old 08-13-2017, 10:38 AM
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@ahblaza has Jim said anything regarding the tactile response of the S7201 alignment?

I'll repost my questions and hopefully Tom can answer what he can.

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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
First S7201 cabinet shipment arrived today. We're going to do all the on-site prep work working four at a time. Don't worry, the driver cavities are all finished here on site..

As usual, the guys at our cabinet shop did flawless work. We went over these with a CLOSE eye and just perfect..

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Tom, is there an alternate amp mounting position to allow this to go behind a couch (as a couch table) with slots facing straight up? Or riser feet for slots to face straight down behind a couch? Even further, I would love to see you guys reimagine the slot positioning so they would fire directly into the back of a couch. Would such designs be detrimental to performance? Is this why no grills will be offered?

Do you test tactile response when designing your subs? How does the S7201 compare to a V3601 in TR?
This is an example of a MLP I envision the S7201 in an alternate arrangement (nearfield). The white is a 40" tall countertop separating the den from thr breakfast/kitchen area.

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post #35778 of 37089 Old 08-13-2017, 11:19 AM
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Jim has mentioned that I'm going to really like the sub and it's one of the loudest (high SPL) subs he's ever measured, but there's more than just being loud...................
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post #35779 of 37089 Old 08-13-2017, 01:33 PM
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Jim has mentioned that I'm going to really like the sub and it's one of the loudest (high SPL) subs he's ever measured, but there's more than just being loud...................
Yeah, I've heard going deep matters a lot too.

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post #35780 of 37089 Old 08-13-2017, 01:43 PM
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@ahblaza has Jim said anything regarding the tactile response of the S7201 alignment?

I'll repost my questions and hopefully Tom can answer what he can.


Tom, is there an alternate amp mounting position to allow this to go behind a couch (as a couch table) with slots facing straight up? Or riser feet for slots to face straight down behind a couch? Even further, I would love to see you guys reimagine the slot positioning so they would fire directly into the back of a couch. Would such designs be detrimental to performance? Is this why no grills will be offered?

This is an example of a MLP I envision the S7201 in an alternate arrangement (nearfield). The white is a 40" tall countertop separating the den from thr breakfast/kitchen area.
I've thought about the same things and would wager to say that a custom side-mounted amp wouldn't be all that difficult. It would require a "custom price" though and is probably something better served by a phone call for serious inquiries. Re-coding the CNC for the alternate amp cutout would require the entire job to be edited in the G and M codes, new drawings, and a different cable run through the cabinet depending on where the amp was positioned.

I did a little thinking the other day and was considering the upward facing drivers with supports under the back of the sub to allow amp clearance. I was also thinking about positioning supports and having the drivers face down into the floor. Maybe some large wooden blocks with rubber on both sides? There are so many possibilities when a little imagination is thrown in. I love to engineer and rig stuff. Heck, I've even thought about making some grilles for the front openings for dust prevention. Take 'em off and kick it! I wonder how much air resistance there would be to speaker cloth?

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post #35781 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 05:41 AM
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Yeah suba I feel your enthusiasm, I did this for too many years to keep track of, now I just want the biggest single sub that I can fit nicely in my space and look at it daily and admire, then fire it up, that's where the 7201 comes in. I got the three V1801s sounding very good, scary good but they're scattered all over my room. I'm not even coming close to the headroom left over with these 3 subs. I listened way louder than I normally do the other night at -8 with the subs all 6dB hot.

I watched Hacksaw Ridge for the first time at this level and just wasn't ready for the first battle scene when the ships started firing on the ridge and then when they climbed up the ropes that did me in. The misses came running down and her exact words were "I hope your health insurance pays for hearing aids, seriously, what is wrong with you"? So I said OK honey I'll just get one sub instead of three and she was happy. So I'm good till the the truck comes with a lift and a portable folk lift to deliver the 7201 in a refrigerator box, I asked Jim to put a Home Dept label on the box, should be no problem at all......

Jeff: I knew you would come back to the sealed side
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post #35782 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 06:10 AM
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Just ordered 15V number 2

1900 cubic foot room is going to slam
With both subs gain matched and delay set to 0, they actually weren't any louder than when I had one. Potentially even quieter. But I added delay to the nearer sub and there was a noticeable improvement. If I want to get the delay set precisely, I think I will have to buy a microphone. They are currently on the right side of the room, one in the front corner and one in the rear corner. About 12' and 5' away from MLP, respectively.
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post #35783 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 06:51 AM
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With both subs gain matched and delay set to 0, they actually weren't any louder than when I had one. Potentially even quieter. But I added delay to the nearer sub and there was a noticeable improvement. If I want to get the delay set precisely, I think I will have to buy a microphone. They are currently on the right side of the room, one in the front corner and one in the rear corner. About 12' and 5' away from MLP, respectively.
REW and a Mic is mandatory if you want to achieve proper placement or dialing in the delay. What kind of room correction software do you have?

EDIT: I see you have Audyssey MultEQ. You definitely need REW and a Mic.
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post #35784 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 06:52 AM
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REW and a Mic is mandatory if you want to achieve proper placement or dialing in the delay. What kind of room correction software do you have?
I have an older Audyssey MultEQ receiver. Only has one sub out so it will be a matter of dialing in the delay on the near sub.
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post #35785 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mdameron View Post
I have an older Audyssey MultEQ receiver. Only has one sub out so it will be a matter of dialing in the delay on the near sub.
You might be better off stacking both subs until you get a Mic.
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #35786 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 06:56 AM
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You might be better off stacking both subs until you get a Mic.
Well that won't do! Just ordered the UMIK off Amazon. Will be fun to experiment but ultimately I have very little means of making adjustments in my receiver.

Denon 1911
LCR: Polk RTiA7, CSiA6
Front height: 8" Monoprice in-ceiling
Rear: 6.5" Monoprice in-ceiling
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post #35787 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 07:00 AM
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Jim has mentioned that I'm going to really like the sub and it's one of the loudest (high SPL) subs he's ever measured, but there's more than just being loud...................
After much internal debate Jim and I decided to enable the "tactile response" option on the S7201 design so you can rest easy Jeff.

Glad you mentioned the "more than just being loud". I spent a good bit of time on the phone this weekend with two different audio enthusiasts talking about our V1801 design. In both cases the discussion centered on the sound of our subwoofers. The primary value with the outside measurements is FR and compression. Cea-2010 is a nice to have. During each phone call the conversation turned to cea-2010 and the obsession some have with it. I told them my guess was it is an easy to reference metric. Group delay, impulse, waterfall, and all the others...those take a good bit of experience to know what those are telling you. And even more importantly, what they are not telling you. Even something as basic as a frequency response graph. Many engineers have different ideas what is good or not so good..

But saying "this number is higher so it is better"...well, that's easy enough. So cea-2010 appeals to the "lowest common denominator" in that regard. But is it better or simply louder?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

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post #35788 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
After much internal debate Jim and I decided to enable the "tactile response" option on the S7201 design so you can rest easy Jeff.

Glad you mentioned the "more than just being loud". I spent a good bit of time on the phone this weekend with two different audio enthusiasts talking about our V1801 design. In both cases the discussion centered on the sound of our subwoofers. The primary value with the outside measurements is FR and compression. Cea-2010 is a nice to have. During each phone call the conversation turned to cea-2010 and the obsession some have with it. I told them my guess was it is an easy to reference metric. Group delay, impulse, waterfall, and all the others...those take a good bit of experience to know what those are telling you. And even more importantly, what they are not telling you. Even something as basic as a frequency response graph. Many engineers have different ideas what is good or not so good..

But saying "this number is higher so it is better"...well, that's easy enough. So cea-2010 appeals to the "lowest common denominator" in that regard. But is it better or simply louder?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
I'm glad you decided to enable the tactile response option. That was awesome!!!!!!!!
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Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #35789 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
You might be better off stacking both subs until you get a Mic.
Since the subwoofer has a delay knob, will a MiniDSP be required to set time alignment? I've ordered the mic and will have REW. Hoping to achieve my goal without having to buy a MiniDSP. From what I am reading, it will be a series of tests and then adjusting the delay until the graphs are aligned?

Current plan is to reset the AVR to defaults, then time align the subs with REW and the delay knob on the closer sub. Then, run audyssey with the subs as one entity (because only one output on AVR).

EDIT: And while I'm at it, should I level match or gain match two 15Vs? Would do that before time aligning.

Denon 1911
LCR: Polk RTiA7, CSiA6
Front height: 8" Monoprice in-ceiling
Rear: 6.5" Monoprice in-ceiling
Sub: PSA 15V x2

Last edited by mdameron; 08-14-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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post #35790 of 37089 Old 08-14-2017, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
After much internal debate Jim and I decided to enable the "tactile response" option on the S7201 design so you can rest easy Jeff.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Slackers! I would have thought that you guys would've enabled the super duper extra power tactile response option in the DSP settings. I guess we'll all just have to settle with the S7201s default TR.
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