Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1227 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36781 of 37024 Old 09-13-2017, 09:53 PM
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Woah! DEQ + subs 8dB hot must rattle your fillings!!!
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post #36782 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 12:47 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I am starting to think that you should move the sub and/or the MLP... You are not getting anything below 18Hz, considering your room is on the small size... I see that when you graphed for Cap 1400 before as well as now...


You think so?

@imureh 's graph looks basically how I would expect a ported sub graph to look on the bottom end. Other than that slight dip in the 50-60hz range he is essentially flat to 18hz, then starts to fall off. This is exactly what I would expect for a sub tuned in the high teens. If anything, the fall off is actually more gradual than I would have expected for a ported sub, which I am guessing may be part of the design for the v1801.

If it were me and I wanted to improve this graph, I would be shifting things around to try and improve the dip in the 50-60hz range and the 100 hz range. Looking at it again though, I guess the dips are really only from 55-60hz and maybe 100-105hz (maybe 110?), which aren't terribly wide. I would be tweaking to address those areas, but if they don't improve I wouldn't sweat it too much.

That's just me though, I think it looks good!



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post #36783 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
You think so?

@imureh 's graph looks basically how I would expect a ported sub graph to look on the bottom end. Other than that slight dip in the 50-60hz range he is essentially flat to 18hz, then starts to fall off. This is exactly what I would expect for a sub tuned in the high teens. If anything, the fall off is actually more gradual than I would have expected for a ported sub, which I am guessing may be part of the design for the v1801.

If it were me and I wanted to improve this graph, I would be shifting things around to try and improve the dip in the 50-60hz range and the 100 hz range. Looking at it again though, I guess the dips are really only from 55-60hz and maybe 100-105hz (maybe 110?), which aren't terribly wide. I would be tweaking to address those areas, but if they don't improve I wouldn't sweat it too much.

That's just me though, I think it looks good!
The following is the FR I took @ 100dB from the 3 seats in my 22 1/4 ft * 14 1/2 ft * 7 1/5 ft HT, a family room that opens to the kitchen.



I am getting 100dB @ 11.4 Hz!!!

I know that the Cap 1400 has better extension and more output down low. The thing is, I compared the FR he took with a Cap 1400 and a pair of V1801s, it's as if his room is not giving him free lunch below 18 Hz or so and the room is sealed and smaller than mine! So it's not the sub but rather the MLP and where the subs are at.

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post #36784 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 01:46 AM
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Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The following is the FR I took @ 100dB from the 3 seats in my 22 1/4 ft * 14 1/2 ft * 7 1/5 ft HT, a family room that opens to the kitchen.



I am getting 100dB @ 11.4 Hz!!!

I know that the Cap 1400 has better extension and more output down low. The thing is, I compared the FR he took with a Cap 1400 and a pair of V1801s, it's as if his room is not giving him free lunch below 18 Hz or so and the room is sealed and smaller than mine! So it's not the sub but rather the MLP and where the subs are at.


I see what you are saying, but the rest of his FR is so well behaved I'm not sure it warrants much change.

Also, in the graph you posted of your response, you are down about 15db at 11hz from that huge peak at 45 hz. By way of comparison, imureh is only down 10db over that same range. From what I understand, that is pretty darned good for a ported sub below port tune! As a result, I'm not convinced he has an issue in this range, even in comparison with your graph.

Of course it never hurts to try moving the subs around and see what happens. For all I know he could see some gains in 10-20hz range, and the only way to know is to try.

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post #36785 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
I see what you are saying, but the rest of his FR is so well behaved I'm not sure it warrants much change.

Also, in the graph you posted of your response, you are down about 15db at 11hz from that huge peak at 45 hz. By way of comparison, imureh is only down 10db over that same range. From what I understand, that is pretty darned good for a ported sub below port tune! As a result, I'm not convinced he has an issue in this range, even in comparison with your graph.

Of course it never hurts to try moving the subs around and see what happens. For all I know he could see some gains in 10-20hz range, and the only way to know is to try.
Well, I took the FR @ 100dB and I am getting 100dB @ 11.4 Hz with my AVR at pure direct. The peak you speak of is room induced, and is from the worst seat that is almost never used...

Yes, I know that his FR looks good in general. It seems the current locations allow sealed subs to thrive and perform better than ported ones, maybe due to distance from the acoustic center to the nearest boundary. Perhaps I am just being picky...
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post #36786 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Well, I took the FR @ 100dB and I am getting 100dB @ 11.4 Hz with my AVR at pure direct. The peak you speak of is room induced, and is from the worst seat that is almost never used...

Yes, I know that his FR looks good in general. It seems the current locations allow sealed subs to thrive and perform better than ported ones, maybe due to distance from the acoustic center to the nearest boundary. Perhaps I am just being picky...


Appreciate you guys trying to help and that is exactly why I posted those graphs as I was looking for input. I can try to move the subs some but given it's a small room I don't have many options. That dip around 60hz is something I just can't rid of. Have tried sub distance tweaks, tried to move the subs a little as well. It was there for sealed as well. May be once I get room treatments things may improve.


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post #36787 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Appreciate you guys trying to help and that is exactly why I posted those graphs as I was looking for input. I can try to move the subs some but given it's a small room I don't have many options. That dip around 60hz is something I just can't rid of. Have tried sub distance tweaks, tried to move the subs a little as well. It was there for sealed as well. May be once I get room treatments things may improve.


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I think your response looks fine...I would take a smoother response above 30hz over better extension all day. That is where the subs spends most of their time playing and will make the biggest impact on how it sounds.
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post #36788 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I think your response looks fine...I would take a smoother response above 30hz over better extension all day. That is where the subs spends most of their time playing and will make the biggest impact on how it sounds.


Yeah, it sounds good. I may try and move them a bit close to each other to see what happens. Right now they are along the side walls in front of the shelf.




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post #36789 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 05:27 AM
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Will the V1801's fit on the shelf? I think you already tried that but can not remember off hand.
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post #36790 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Will the V1801's fit on the shelf? I think you already tried that but can not remember off hand.


I did not try it on the shelf with the V1801 but did do that with Submersive. It did not sound good at all. Also it then also messes me up on where to place the MTM 210s. Not a lot of options in the room. I do know one thing that the best response is in the front of room.


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post #36791 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 05:52 AM
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Hi everyone! I just joined your ranks and placed an order for a 15V yesterday to match up with my Chane A2.4 L/C/R and A1.4 Surrounds.
Very excited to receive the sub and try it out against an SB2000 I have been testing out.

I had a question regarding the bottom of the sub. It will be placed in a corner (with space for the port of course) on a hardwood floor.

Do you recommend some sort of padding or base to place under the sub?
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post #36792 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 06:02 AM
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Finally got around to saving some measurements since I got the V1801s a couple of weeks ago. I tried some distance tweaks with the subs but what XT32 set it at seems to be best. Let me know what you guys think.

Both subs at 80hz crossover





Both subs at crossover at 80 and 100hz

Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
What do you think about the FR graphs I posted earlier today? Sounds pretty good to me which is of course the most important thing.
Personally I think your graphs look pretty good. You are flat over most frequencies with a couple of +/- 5 dB peaks and dips from 15 to 99 Hz (not counting the deeper dip from 57 to 60 Hz). IMO that's not too bad... I like it.

The deepest dip between 57 to 60 Hz is NOT going to be noticeable in real life. So it looks worse on a graph than it sounds in in the HT. It's impossible for our brain to go: "That explosion sounded great from 25 Hz to 50 Hz but I noticed a little less impact in the 57 to 60 Hz region. That's never going to happen. At 18 Hz you drop but you don't drop like a rock and you level off again. It's not until 15 Hz that you roll off the cliff. That should be expected with a ported sub if you're not getting help from the room.

IMO a person has a problem when a graph looks like a roller coaster with multiple dips and peaks or with really wide and deep dips... that's when you should do something because that WILL be noticeable. So as long as you are happy with +/- 5dB then I think you should be very happy.
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post #36793 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Yeah, it sounds good. I may try and move them a bit close to each other to see what happens. Right now they are along the side walls in front of the shelf.




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Wonder if you could cut out sections on either side of that shelf just wide enough to fit the 1801's closer to the wall, then put the 210's on top of them
Of course if you did and your response got worse then that would kinda suck lol
Love your room though, can't wait to have a dedicated room of my own one day
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post #36794 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by h3ro View Post
Hi everyone! I just joined your ranks and placed an order for a 15V yesterday to match up with my Chane A2.4 L/C/R and A1.4 Surrounds.
Very excited to receive the sub and try it out against an SB2000 I have been testing out.

I had a question regarding the bottom of the sub. It will be placed in a corner (with space for the port of course) on a hardwood floor.

Do you recommend some sort of padding or base to place under the sub?
Congrats on your new sub. PSA subs come with rubber feet so you should be fine without a base or pad.
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post #36795 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Congrats on your new sub. PSA subs come with rubber feet so you should be fine without a base or pad.
That's great to hear. I was concerned about having issues with any reverberations due to the downfiring nature of the sub. Appreciate the response.
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post #36796 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Yeah, it sounds good. I may try and move them a bit close to each other to see what happens. Right now they are along the side walls in front of the shelf.



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I think you have already gotten a lot of great feedback, and FWIW, I also think your overall frequency response looks very good. I agree with Hop that you are not at all likely to ever notice the slight dip at around 60Hz. Our brains just aren't wired that way. And, if your measurement were taken at a single point in space (I can't remember) versus being the average of several measurements taken around your head, it won't exactly represent what you hear, since our hearing is binaural.

The drop-off below about 17 or 18Hz doesn't look bad to me at all. And, it's really the content down to about the mid-teens that we are going to hear anyway. It also looks to me as if you took your measurement with your SPL set a little lower than where Chucky took his, so a direct comparison of the SPL's at a particular frequency wouldn't be apples-to-apples.

You can certainly try moving your subs a little closer together. Who knows? Something else I would try is moving them even closer to the wall on each side. You might get just a little more boundary reinforcement, if they are more nearly flush with the wall, and it shouldn't hurt anything. Another easy maneuver would involve rotating the subs to face each other. That seems counterintuitive from the standpoint of direct air movement from the ports toward your listening position. But, I wouldn't prejudge the results, if you just want to experiment.

I think that you could move the subs a little more flush with the walls without having to rerun Audyssey, but if I were going to experiment with rotating the subs, then I think that a new calibration would be necessary. But, if you saved the old calibration, and made sure that you moved the subs back into the original positions, you would only have to run Audyssey once for the rotation option.

Again, I think that you are already in very good shape, particularly if you like the way it sounds. But, knowing that you like to experiment, there are still a couple of minor position changes you can try if you want to.

Regards,
Mike
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post #36797 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 08:14 AM
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Good lord , I dont know what happened between the day before and yesterday but I am liking it! I got home from work yesterday and had some people working outside , so I stayed in and played some music off youtube. The S36's just seemed to come ALIVE! I didnt change any settings , but it they seemed like a completely different sub! Sometimes I get the feeling that unplugging , powering off , connecting , disconnecting subs screws with my AVR and that it cuts the signal to the sub or something and that a day or 2 later it goes back to normal.
(Paragraph)
I played mainly Bass-y music , hip-hop and electronic stuff , and everything just sounded so clear. I even turned down the treble on the AVR into the negative which is a first , not sure how that correlates with the sub but I usually have it at a +1 - +3. Deep bass notes would flex the TV like I hadnt seen before and just pressurize the room. Mid-bass was sharp and just sounded and felt perfect to me. I thought TR would go down in a largish room on a concrete slab? I am getting plenty.
(Paragraph)
Right now , I dont even want to hook the V18's back up! I know I will , but the level of satisfaction I have right now makes me not even want to think twice , but the wallet is saying "Maybe you should take another listen?!!?" I think the S36's are giving me the improvement that I was looking for. Deep pressurization , lower extension , and just all around improvement without any worries of port noise! The V36's would have just been overkill , and even these S36's are just about to that point.
(Paragraph)
The biggest thing I am noticing at the moment is just the clarity of the bass. I know when I heard Marc's F18's they were just quiet while making noise. If that makes any sense? I thought all of the ported ones were just a bit noisy when pushed hard. Could be why I felt that the treble was just a bit to bright now? Either way , after the first day I was a bit on the fence about the V18 vs S36. That the S36 was an improvement but I didnt know if it was worth an X amount of dollars improvement? Well yesterday changed that!
(Paragraph)
Im not sure what brought about the change , again I suspect my AVR acts weird with new subs. Doesnt make sense I know but it has happened to me a few times before where the subs are almost lifeless for a day or so. Right now , I say the S36 is definitely worth the X dollar amount and if it wasnt for the fact of this forum , I would just box up the V18 and call it a day. But maybe one day someone might find this useful so I will throw the V18's back on in a couple days and have another go with them. They have their work cut out for themselves!

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post #36798 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Personally I think your graphs look pretty good. You are flat over most frequencies with a couple of +/- 5 dB peaks and dips from 15 to 99 Hz (not counting the deeper dip from 57 to 60 Hz). IMO that's not too bad... I like it.

The deepest dip between 57 to 60 Hz is NOT going to be noticeable in real life. So it looks worse on a graph than it sounds in in the HT. It's impossible for our brain to go: "That explosion sounded great from 25 Hz to 50 Hz but I noticed a little less impact in the 57 to 60 Hz region. That's never going to happen. At 18 Hz you drop but you don't drop like a rock and you level off again. It's not until 15 Hz that you roll off the cliff. That should be expected with a ported sub if you're not getting help from the room.

IMO a person has a problem when a graph looks like a roller coaster with multiple dips and peaks or with really wide and deep dips... that's when you should do something because that WILL be noticeable. So as long as you are happy with +/- 5dB then I think you should be very happy.
Yes I don't seem to be missing anything that I can readily tell. But of course I want to just test to see if I can improve on anything. Good advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
Wonder if you could cut out sections on either side of that shelf just wide enough to fit the 1801's closer to the wall, then put the 210's on top of them
Of course if you did and your response got worse then that would kinda suck lol
Love your room though, can't wait to have a dedicated room of my own one day
If I want to live in the house then I gotta live with that shelf... It one thing in the media the wife designed so do not want to take that away from her. I just see it as a possible limitation in the room. I call it possible as it could sound worse when up against the front wall as you said. Tom did not seem to think it was an issue, plus this way the subs are closer to me....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I think you have already gotten a lot of great feedback, and FWIW, I also think your overall frequency response looks very good. I agree with Hop that you are not at all likely to ever notice the slight dip at around 60Hz. Our brains just aren't wired that way. And, if your measurement were taken at a single point in space (I can't remember) versus being the average of several measurements taken around your head, it won't exactly represent what you hear, since our hearing is binaural.

The drop-off below about 17 or 18Hz doesn't look bad to me at all. And, it's really the content down to about the mid-teens that we are going to hear anyway. It also looks to me as if you took your measurement with your SPL set a little lower than where Chucky took his, so a direct comparison of the SPL's at a particular frequency wouldn't be apples-to-apples.

You can certainly try moving your subs a little closer together. Who knows? Something else I would try is moving them even closer to the wall on each side. You might get just a little more boundary reinforcement, if they are more nearly flush with the wall, and it shouldn't hurt anything. Another easy maneuver would involve rotating the subs to face each other. That seems counterintuitive from the standpoint of direct air movement from the ports toward your listening position. But, I wouldn't prejudge the results, if you just want to experiment.

I think that you could move the subs a little more flush with the walls without having to rerun Audyssey, but if I were going to experiment with rotating the subs, then I think that a new calibration would be necessary. But, if you saved the old calibration, and made sure that you moved the subs back into the original positions, you would only have to run Audyssey once for the rotation option.

Again, I think that you are already in very good shape, particularly if you like the way it sounds. But, knowing that you like to experiment, there are still a couple of minor position changes you can try if you want to.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike, those are pretty easy tests to do, not much more I can do with them as i know front of the room is the best place for them. How I have them in the front is something I can play with as you said. I am happy with the way they sound but just want to test to see what if anything can be improved. Will come back with findings....
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post #36799 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
Good lord , I dont know what happened between the day before and yesterday but I am liking it! I got home from work yesterday and had some people working outside , so I stayed in and played some music off youtube. The S36's just seemed to come ALIVE! I didnt change any settings , but it they seemed like a completely different sub! Sometimes I get the feeling that unplugging , powering off , connecting , disconnecting subs screws with my AVR and that it cuts the signal to the sub or something and that a day or 2 later it goes back to normal.
(Paragraph)
I played mainly Bass-y music , hip-hop and electronic stuff , and everything just sounded so clear. I even turned down the treble on the AVR into the negative which is a first , not sure how that correlates with the sub but I usually have it at a +1 - +3. Deep bass notes would flex the TV like I hadnt seen before and just pressurize the room. Mid-bass was sharp and just sounded and felt perfect to me. I thought TR would go down in a largish room on a concrete slab? I am getting plenty.
(Paragraph)
Right now , I dont even want to hook the V18's back up! I know I will , but the level of satisfaction I have right now makes me not even want to think twice , but the wallet is saying "Maybe you should take another listen?!!?" I think the S36's are giving me the improvement that I was looking for. Deep pressurization , lower extension , and just all around improvement without any worries of port noise! The V36's would have just been overkill , and even these S36's are just about to that point.
(Paragraph)
The biggest thing I am noticing at the moment is just the clarity of the bass. I know when I heard Marc's F18's they were just quiet while making noise. If that makes any sense? I thought all of the ported ones were just a bit noisy when pushed hard. Could be why I felt that the treble was just a bit to bright now? Either way , after the first day I was a bit on the fence about the V18 vs S36. That the S36 was an improvement but I didnt know if it was worth an X amount of dollars improvement? Well yesterday changed that!
(Paragraph)
Im not sure what brought about the change , again I suspect my AVR acts weird with new subs. Doesnt make sense I know but it has happened to me a few times before where the subs are almost lifeless for a day or so. Right now , I say the S36 is definitely worth the X dollar amount and if it wasnt for the fact of this forum , I would just box up the V18 and call it a day. But maybe one day someone might find this useful so I will throw the V18's back on in a couple days and have another go with them. They have their work cut out for themselves!

P.S. - Had to be an ass with the paragraph thing at least once
I would listen to each set for a few days to see how you like them. The sealed do have a cleaner sound, it just depends whether you like the violent bass of a ported or a more refined one from sealed. I know I like the grunt and in your gut feel from a ported. YMMV
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post #36800 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I would listen to each set for a few days to see how you like them. The sealed do have a cleaner sound, it just depends whether you like the violent bass of a ported or a more refined one from sealed. I know I like the grunt and in your gut feel from a ported. YMMV
I had the V18's in our old space of about 17'x17'x8' and felt every bit of them , and even now in our bigger space...The S36's are really giving me all that and then some with that cleaner sound you mentioned...The V18's better be holding an Ace up their sleeve!
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post #36801 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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Good lord , I dont know what happened between the day before and yesterday but I am liking it! I got home from work yesterday and had some people working outside , so I stayed in and played some music off youtube. The S36's just seemed to come ALIVE! I didnt change any settings , but it they seemed like a completely different sub! Sometimes I get the feeling that unplugging , powering off , connecting , disconnecting subs screws with my AVR and that it cuts the signal to the sub or something and that a day or 2 later it goes back to normal.
(Paragraph)
I played mainly Bass-y music , hip-hop and electronic stuff , and everything just sounded so clear. I even turned down the treble on the AVR into the negative which is a first , not sure how that correlates with the sub but I usually have it at a +1 - +3. Deep bass notes would flex the TV like I hadnt seen before and just pressurize the room. Mid-bass was sharp and just sounded and felt perfect to me. I thought TR would go down in a largish room on a concrete slab? I am getting plenty.
(Paragraph)
Right now , I dont even want to hook the V18's back up! I know I will , but the level of satisfaction I have right now makes me not even want to think twice , but the wallet is saying "Maybe you should take another listen?!!?" I think the S36's are giving me the improvement that I was looking for. Deep pressurization , lower extension , and just all around improvement without any worries of port noise! The V36's would have just been overkill , and even these S36's are just about to that point.
(Paragraph)
The biggest thing I am noticing at the moment is just the clarity of the bass. I know when I heard Marc's F18's they were just quiet while making noise. If that makes any sense? I thought all of the ported ones were just a bit noisy when pushed hard. Could be why I felt that the treble was just a bit to bright now? Either way , after the first day I was a bit on the fence about the V18 vs S36. That the S36 was an improvement but I didnt know if it was worth an X amount of dollars improvement? Well yesterday changed that!
(Paragraph)
Im not sure what brought about the change , again I suspect my AVR acts weird with new subs. Doesnt make sense I know but it has happened to me a few times before where the subs are almost lifeless for a day or so. Right now , I say the S36 is definitely worth the X dollar amount and if it wasnt for the fact of this forum , I would just box up the V18 and call it a day. But maybe one day someone might find this useful so I will throw the V18's back on in a couple days and have another go with them. They have their work cut out for themselves!

P.S. - Had to be an ass with the paragraph thing at least once
You were entirely successful!

The psycho-acoustic aspect of how and what we hear is extremely interesting to me. And, FWIW, I believe that could help to explain what you are experiencing. I think that there could be two separate phenomena at work. The first might be termed acclimation. Our "ears" (actually meaning our brains) start to become accustomed to a new sound fairly quickly, and as that happens, the sound becomes more natural and pleasing to us.

The second factor seems to directly contradict the first one, but I think it is a distinctly separate phenomenon. In a nutshell, I don't believe that our brains react in exactly the same way to sounds (or smells, or tastes, or colors) on different days. So, one day a particular food tastes just right. On another day, the same food, prepared in exactly the same way, may seem too sweet, or too salty, or too whatever. I think that you could make the same analogy to any of our other senses, including sound.

Sometimes I will start to listen to music, which is a continuation of something I was listening to the day before, and I will have to check my settings to make sure that I didn't inadvertently change something, because the amount of bass seems entirely different, or because the high frequencies sound brighter, etc. Over the years, I have become convinced that my brain simply does not react to external stimulus in exactly the same way, all of the time. Perhaps I just have a defective brain. Or, perhaps this is a more common occurrence than we may fully appreciate.

To tie those two phenomena together, I believe that we do become generally more acclimated to a new sound fairly quickly, so that it sounds natural and appropriate to us. That's why acoustic memory is considered so unreliable. But, I also believe that, on any given day, things in our system may sound slightly different to us than they did the day before. And, the reason for the difference in sound may lie within us rather than within the sound itself. Of course, all bets are off when we listen to different material from different sources, or to different movies, because there really may be significant differences in the sound, in that case.

In any event, it sounds as if you have found a sound you really like, and that the S3601's are there to stay.

Regards,
Mike
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post #36802 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:13 AM
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post #36803 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:18 AM
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I did not try it on the shelf with the V1801 but did do that with Submersive. It did not sound good at all. Also it then also messes me up on where to place the MTM 210s. Not a lot of options in the room. I do know one thing that the best response is in the front of room.
Since you're back on doing REW again, you can try below, especially if you can get away with asymmetry



Angle in or out the subs... Place the right sub 2 inches away from the right wall, and the left sub 4 inches away from the left wall, etc... Experiment and be creative..

When I did the REW yesterday, I turned a 12dB dip into a 3 dB one just by pulling the sub 2 inches towards me.

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post #36804 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Since you're back on doing REW again, you can try below, especially if you can get away with asymmetry



Angle in or out the subs... Place the right sub 2 inches away from the right wall, and the left sub 4 inches away from the left wall, etc... Experiment and be creative..

When I did the REW yesterday, I turned a 12dB dip into a 3 dB one just by pulling the sub 2 inches towards me.


Cool. Those tests are easy. Will do them over this weekend and report back.


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post #36805 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
Good lord , I dont know what happened between the day before and yesterday but I am liking it! I got home from work yesterday and had some people working outside , so I stayed in and played some music off youtube. The S36's just seemed to come ALIVE! I didnt change any settings , but it they seemed like a completely different sub! Sometimes I get the feeling that unplugging , powering off , connecting , disconnecting subs screws with my AVR and that it cuts the signal to the sub or something and that a day or 2 later it goes back to normal.
(Paragraph)
I played mainly Bass-y music , hip-hop and electronic stuff , and everything just sounded so clear. I even turned down the treble on the AVR into the negative which is a first , not sure how that correlates with the sub but I usually have it at a +1 - +3. Deep bass notes would flex the TV like I hadnt seen before and just pressurize the room. Mid-bass was sharp and just sounded and felt perfect to me. I thought TR would go down in a largish room on a concrete slab? I am getting plenty.
(Paragraph)
Right now , I dont even want to hook the V18's back up! I know I will , but the level of satisfaction I have right now makes me not even want to think twice , but the wallet is saying "Maybe you should take another listen?!!?" I think the S36's are giving me the improvement that I was looking for. Deep pressurization , lower extension , and just all around improvement without any worries of port noise! The V36's would have just been overkill , and even these S36's are just about to that point.
(Paragraph)
The biggest thing I am noticing at the moment is just the clarity of the bass. I know when I heard Marc's F18's they were just quiet while making noise. If that makes any sense? I thought all of the ported ones were just a bit noisy when pushed hard. Could be why I felt that the treble was just a bit to bright now? Either way , after the first day I was a bit on the fence about the V18 vs S36. That the S36 was an improvement but I didnt know if it was worth an X amount of dollars improvement? Well yesterday changed that!
(Paragraph)
Im not sure what brought about the change , again I suspect my AVR acts weird with new subs. Doesnt make sense I know but it has happened to me a few times before where the subs are almost lifeless for a day or so. Right now , I say the S36 is definitely worth the X dollar amount and if it wasnt for the fact of this forum , I would just box up the V18 and call it a day. But maybe one day someone might find this useful so I will throw the V18's back on in a couple days and have another go with them. They have their work cut out for themselves!

P.S. - Had to be an ass with the paragraph thing at least once
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post #36806 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You were entirely successful!

The psycho-acoustic aspect of how and what we hear is extremely interesting to me. And, FWIW, I believe that could help to explain what you are experiencing. I think that there could be two separate phenomena at work. The first might be termed acclimation. Our "ears" (actually meaning our brains) start to become accustomed to a new sound fairly quickly, and as that happens, the sound becomes more natural and pleasing to us.

The second factor seems to directly contradict the first one, but I think it is a distinctly separate phenomenon. In a nutshell, I don't believe that our brains react in exactly the same way to sounds (or smells, or tastes, or colors) on different days. So, one day a particular food tastes just right. On another day, the same food, prepared in exactly the same way, may seem too sweet, or too salty, or too whatever. I think that you could make the same analogy to any of our other senses, including sound.

Sometimes I will start to listen to music, which is a continuation of something I was listening to the day before, and I will have to check my settings to make sure that I didn't inadvertently change something, because the amount of bass seems entirely different, or because the high frequencies sound brighter, etc. Over the years, I have become convinced that my brain simply does not react to external stimulus in exactly the same way, all of the time. Perhaps I just have a defective brain. Or, perhaps this is a more common occurrence than we may fully appreciate.

To tie those two phenomena together, I believe that we do become generally more acclimated to a new sound fairly quickly, so that it sounds natural and appropriate to us. That's why acoustic memory is considered so unreliable. But, I also believe that, on any given day, things in our system may sound slightly different to us than they did the day before. And, the reason for the difference in sound may lie within us rather than within the sound itself. Of course, all bets are off when we listen to different material from different sources, or to different movies, because there really may be significant differences in the sound, in that case.

In any event, it sounds as if you have found a sound you really like, and that the S3601's are there to stay.

Regards,
Mike
I buy that , or the fact that something is new "IT MUST BE BETTER" and we alter our thinking to really buy into that notion. But I really have had new subs just come in dead sounding multiple times from PSA and SVS almost to the point of "what the hell did I buy these for?" and wanted to send back. I attributed it to 2 things , one was that there was some hard partying going on a couple years back where I noticed that if I was drunk , I just could not hear bass! It was like I went just bass deaf...And number 2 kind of ties back in with number 1 , connections from sub to AVR have been off. But in my own defense , I have heard this happen sober with new subs and my AVR. I think its just some odd quirk to it.
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post #36807 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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Well, I took the FR @ 100dB and I am getting 100dB @ 11.4 Hz with my AVR at pure direct. The peak you speak of is room induced, and is from the worst seat that is almost never used...

Yes, I know that his FR looks good in general. It seems the current locations allow sealed subs to thrive and perform better than ported ones, maybe due to distance from the acoustic center to the nearest boundary. Perhaps I am just being picky...


Looks like we sparked some good conversation and got the ball rolling with some good ideas for imureh to go try. It's always fun to speculate about what's going on in someone's room, and idk about you but I enjoyed the debate.

I hope you are right and he unlocks some more potential from 10-20hz like you are getting, that would be sweet!


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post #36808 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Looks like we sparked some good conversation and got the ball rolling with some good ideas for imureh to go try. It's always fun to speculate about what's going on in someone's room, and idk about you but I enjoyed the debate.

I hope you are right and he unlocks some more potential from 10-20hz like you are getting, that would be sweet!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the help from everyone. I am going to try different things and see. Don't think I will get as low as Chucky since he has a cap 1400 which is tuned lower. But any improvement is worthwhile IMO.


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post #36809 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 10:51 AM
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Thanks for the help from everyone. I am going to try different things and see. Don't think I will get as low as Chucky since he has a cap 1400 which is tuned lower. But any improvement is worthwhile IMO.
Well, the tuning frequencies are pretty much a wash so it shouldn't matter that much in this case.

Your FR is indeed smoother and benefiting from the team effort (going dual). Good job!

At the end of the day it's all about what sounds good to you and what works for you. Trying different things might provide a better FR; however, if it's not audible and you or your wife can't tolerate the new orientation then you probably have no choice but to restore it.

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post #36810 of 37024 Old 09-14-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Looks like we sparked some good conversation and got the ball rolling with some good ideas for imureh to go try. It's always fun to speculate about what's going on in someone's room, and idk about you but I enjoyed the debate.

I hope you are right and he unlocks some more potential from 10-20hz like you are getting, that would be sweet!
You call this debate? You should come over to my house and see how my wife and I debate...

I enjoyed the discussion as well. We are all trying to help imureh get more out of his subs, if possible. I am sure we all have better things to do in the middle of the night.
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