Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 1235 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37021 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 07:05 AM
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FedEx is KILLING me right now.


Best part is, no one at the company knows what's going on with any part of the delivery process.
And they are successful despite themselves!

I'm a hardware manufacturer for the semiconductor industry, I'm sending/getting parts daily from the Asian clients.

Today: Purchasing here is on the phone, half the morning, slugging it out with the Fed-Ex Rep (talk about aggravating) about a shipment "Its in customs, no wait... lots like its in Jamaica.... Not sure...blah.. blah..blah".

I walk into the office "you can hang up now on Fed Ex, the parts just got delivered"

We're 20-30 miles from the Fed Ex office, in the burbs of NYC, meaning the parts were loaded on the truck last night...... I know they move a lot of boxes, but come on...

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post #37022 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
No matter what I do, I can't get the sub 20 hz material to be flatter. I have tried every possible combination in this room and sub angle etc. is it because the PSA v3601 has a Port tune around 19? Is that the reason it's falling off so fast and can't remain flat? Here's my current frequency response with the sub behind my couch, it sounds and feels awesome. This is an avg of 12 measurements near MLP.


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I thought you were hating on the V3601 and wanted to get rid of it? Did something change?
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post #37023 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
No matter what I do, I can't get the sub 20 hz material to be flatter. I have tried every possible combination in this room and sub angle etc. is it because the PSA v3601 has a Port tune around 19? Is that the reason it's falling off so fast and can't remain flat? Here's my current frequency response with the sub behind my couch, it sounds and feels awesome. This is an avg of 12 measurements near MLP.
I don't think it's the V3601. Here is an older graph I have of my dual V3601's and I don't drop off until more than a dB until around 14 Hz. I had a similar graph with just a single V3600 which has less low end output than the V3601.
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File Type: jpg 2x V3600i with Audyssey.jpg (54.5 KB, 83 views)
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post #37024 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I don't think it's the V3601. Here is an older graph I have of my dual V3601's and I don't drop off until more than a dB until around 14 Hz. I had a similar graph with just a single V3600 which has less low end output than the V3601.


Crap, what do I have to do then? This is with audyssey being set to room size medium and then boosted post audyssey to large. The subs are even in a corner too. Could perhaps it just be my room? I'm at +7 hot and sub gain at 11.


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post #37025 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Crap, what do I have to do then? This is with audyssey being set to room size medium and then boosted post audyssey to large. The subs are even in a corner too. Could perhaps it just be my room? I'm at +7 hot and sub gain at 11.


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David, have you tried and move the sub around in different positions or tried to measure other than at the MLP? Even few inches here or there can have a big difference.


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post #37026 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post
I thought you were hating on the V3601 and wanted to get rid of it? Did something change?


I do want to sell it. I'm currently asking $1500 for it but nobody has interest in it probably because I don't want to ship it :-) It sounds pretty amazing next to my couch. I do want a sub that is tuned lower though....when I bought the subwoofer, I thought the tune was at 16 hz but that most definitely is not the case.


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post #37027 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I do want to sell it. I'm currently asking $1500 for it but nobody has interest in it probably because I don't want to ship it :-) It sounds pretty amazing next to my couch. I do want a sub that is tuned lower though....when I bought the subwoofer, I thought the tune was at 16 hz but that most definitely is not the case.
What's your room dimensions again?

It seems that you are not getting as much room/boundary gain as you would like...

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post #37028 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
What's your room dimensions again?

It seems that you are not getting as much room/boundary gain as you would like...


21 feet long by 7 feet high by 13 feet wide. I do have a 36 inch doorway on the far side of the room That goes upstairs. It is not possible to have a door. So I just have one opening to the room. Concrete floors. I have had the speaker all around the room but I will try some more spots for sure tonight or tomorrow. I’m sure there something I’m missing.


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post #37029 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I will measure for sure. Our rooms are almost identical. Can you take pics of your room for all of us so we can see the layout?

With full time work, a three hour round-trip commute, and full time college, I am beat down. I still need to buy a UMIK-1. I'll get around to it soon though.

One thing I can say is the S7201 is an absolute beast and has low end extension that is out of this world. The push-pull configuration is most likely the key factor in that. Tom and Jim said they were surprised by the measurements for a good reason.
You have a lot on your plate (daily) my friend, I guess being older and retired with a respiratory disability does have it's benefits/Blessings and that's how I deal with and accept it on a daily basis. I'm gearing up now to take care of my Brother who's slated to have his second malignant brain tumor surgery at a moments notice. That's another issue other than posting in this thread so I'll get back to that now.

My setup is on the short wall, that's the first difference in our rooms. The room is also a bit longer than the 27' I originally said it was, the rear is a small dining room setup that opens into a small kitchen (one of two) that is used for a small office setup with the usual kitchen things as well. I guess the best way to explain it is to provide pictures. I was hesitant to do so because I currently don't have PSA speakers, I don't think Tom or Jim would be offended because of that. I did have eight of them and talked with Jim about getting the 210Ts when things slow down for me. I'll try and get the room pics up today.
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post #37030 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Crap, what do I have to do then? This is with audyssey being set to room size medium and then boosted post audyssey to large. The subs are even in a corner too. Could perhaps it just be my room? I'm at +7 hot and sub gain at 11.


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Have you tried with the RSC at large pre Audyssey, if so did anything change? Your FR looks pretty good, in order to see the roll off with better resolution you need to change your vertical scale to 5 dB increments, that will help with clarity and help identify the extension. Go to the limits tab and set the values until it displays a 5 dB vertical scale, sometimes it takes a few clicks up or down to get it right, start with the graph axis limits at 50 bottom and 110 top. I do this and if it's not 5 dB increments I play with the top or bottom to get it right. With my last run of measurements I had 52 bottom and 109 top and that worked for me. Just a suggestion.
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post #37031 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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David I agree with Chucky, I think you are not getting much room/boundary gain. The sub is always only half the equation, the room is the other half. The room is the toughest part IMO.

A 2nd sub in a different location or a sub tuned lower with more power might be the answer... but the price tag goes up quickly in either situation.
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post #37032 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
21 feet long by 7 feet high by 13 feet wide. I do have a 36 inch doorway on the far side of the room That goes upstairs. It is not possible to have a door. So I just have one opening to the room. Concrete floors. I have had the speaker all around the room but I will try some more spots for sure tonight or tomorrow. I’m sure there something I’m missing.
My room dimension is 22.25 ft by 14.5 ft wide by 7.5 ft high, so it's 27% larger than yours.



Above is my room layout. It is a family room addition off the kitchen so the opening to the right is the size of a sliding patio door -- at least 7.5 ft wide. Due to the open nature of the room, I only considered ported subs.

Below is the FRs at the 3 seats in my untreated room. AVR is in Pure Direct. No room correction. Of course they are far from perfect.



Chair 1 (red) is 10' 9" from the sub. Chair 2 (blue) is 7' 8" from the sub. Chair 3 (green) is 9' 7" from the sub.

You should be getting better extension. Maybe you should try moving your seating around.

When I was experimenting with the sub around its current location, I found that the FR from 15~28Hz did not change much. By pulling the sub towards me away from the corner, I turned a 20 dB null @ 55Hz into a slight 4dB dip. This also means that the low end extension is not due to where I put the sub, but rather where the chairs are in the room.

When imureh was moving his V1801s a feet here and there, his low end extension did not change much because he was unable to move his seating. He saw smoother FR in certain areas above 50 Hz, which is what I experienced.

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post #37033 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 12:58 PM
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Damn , Im back to square one! ..... I dont really know what happen or what or why , but all the amazement and pure satisfaction I had with the S36's is gone...Its really back to how I thought on day one , that it was close between the V18's and the S36's , but then a day or so later I felt the S36's came alive and left me not even wanting to hook the V18's back up. Well last night after a couple of days of this thought , I hooked the V18's back up just to clear my head and get a sound refresher...I really do not know what happened.
Up until Saturday it was pure bliss! I really dont know if that the circuit popping had something to do with it , but it was like the very next day or so that I thought I noticed something lacking and it just hasnt came back since sunday or so.. All the settings are the same on everything.. They really sounded neutered almost..Again I really think there is something screwy with my AVR that seems to cut signal to the subs. It was VERY apparent when I said it was like the S36's came to life , and also very apparent when it seems like im not getting 100% out of them..Im going to unplug everything from the AVR and the AVR itself and start over...I want that sound back!
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post #37034 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
21 feet long by 7 feet high by 13 feet wide. I do have a 36 inch doorway on the far side of the room That goes upstairs. It is not possible to have a door. So I just have one opening to the room. Concrete floors. I have had the speaker all around the room but I will try some more spots for sure tonight or tomorrow. I’m sure there something I’m missing.


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I think you're putting too much emphasis on extension, you have a nice smooth gradual roll off with no falling off a cliff low end response. I'd take your rising smooth mid bass response any day over a one with a few dBs more output at 15Hz, bass is a lot more about the smooth linear response through the entire bandwidth and not just one note (frequency) extension your trying to achieve. Looks like you have nice clean bass output with no peaks and valleys to me and it takes getting used to having a well controlled smooth response. What do you feel your lacking when listening to this sub with movies and music?
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post #37035 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 01:14 PM
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Damn , Im back to square one! ..... I dont really know what happen or what or why , but all the amazement and pure satisfaction I had with the S36's is gone...Its really back to how I thought on day one , that it was close between the V18's and the S36's , but then a day or so later I felt the S36's came alive and left me not even wanting to hook the V18's back up. Well last night after a couple of days of this thought , I hooked the V18's back up just to clear my head and get a sound refresher...I really do not know what happened.

Up until Saturday it was pure bliss! I really dont know if that the circuit popping had something to do with it , but it was like the very next day or so that I thought I noticed something lacking and it just hasnt came back since sunday or so.. All the settings are the same on everything.. They really sounded neutered almost..Again I really think there is something screwy with my AVR that seems to cut signal to the subs. It was VERY apparent when I said it was like the S36's came to life , and also very apparent when it seems like im not getting 100% out of them..Im going to unplug everything from the AVR and the AVR itself and start over...I want that sound back!


I told you man!


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post #37036 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 01:39 PM
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Damn , Im back to square one! ..... I dont really know what happen or what or why , but all the amazement and pure satisfaction I had with the S36's is gone...Its really back to how I thought on day one , that it was close between the V18's and the S36's , but then a day or so later I felt the S36's came alive and left me not even wanting to hook the V18's back up. Well last night after a couple of days of this thought , I hooked the V18's back up just to clear my head and get a sound refresher...I really do not know what happened.
Up until Saturday it was pure bliss! I really dont know if that the circuit popping had something to do with it , but it was like the very next day or so that I thought I noticed something lacking and it just hasnt came back since sunday or so.. All the settings are the same on everything.. They really sounded neutered almost..Again I really think there is something screwy with my AVR that seems to cut signal to the subs. It was VERY apparent when I said it was like the S36's came to life , and also very apparent when it seems like im not getting 100% out of them..Im going to unplug everything from the AVR and the AVR itself and start over...I want that sound back!
Might be time for a nice Marantz Reciever or Processor.
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post #37037 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 02:11 PM
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Damn , Im back to square one! ..... I dont really know what happen or what or why , but all the amazement and pure satisfaction I had with the S36's is gone...Its really back to how I thought on day one , that it was close between the V18's and the S36's , but then a day or so later I felt the S36's came alive and left me not even wanting to hook the V18's back up. Well last night after a couple of days of this thought , I hooked the V18's back up just to clear my head and get a sound refresher...I really do not know what happened.
Up until Saturday it was pure bliss! I really dont know if that the circuit popping had something to do with it , but it was like the very next day or so that I thought I noticed something lacking and it just hasnt came back since sunday or so.. All the settings are the same on everything.. They really sounded neutered almost..Again I really think there is something screwy with my AVR that seems to cut signal to the subs. It was VERY apparent when I said it was like the S36's came to life , and also very apparent when it seems like im not getting 100% out of them..Im going to unplug everything from the AVR and the AVR itself and start over...I want that sound back!
Yeah that could be the AVR. Have you tried comparing with no room calibration? Just pure subwoofer... no Audyssey, YPAO, MCAA or whatever flavor you have running?

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post #37038 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 02:16 PM
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I told you man!


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Lol...Well its not necessarily that I was missing the ported , something changed or happened that took them back to how they sounded the first day...They were amazing after that day and really bested the V18's IMO...

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post #37039 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 02:24 PM
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Yeah that could be the AVR. Have you tried comparing with no room calibration? Just pure subwoofer... no Audyssey, YPAO, MCAA or whatever flavor you have running?
Onkyo only has the AccuEq , which I dont think it really calibrates the room as I see Audyssey doing . It mainly just seems to set the channel levels and crossovers. Pretty basic. So I have been just plugging and playing so far and adjusting by ear , since thats all it seems to do...But the S36's were really singing before and since Sunday , they seem just flat and dull...And I really do not think its the S36's fault...

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post #37040 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 02:57 PM
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Onkyo only has the AccuEq , which I dont think it really calibrates the room as I see Audyssey doing . It mainly just seems to set the channel levels and crossovers. Pretty basic. So I have been just plugging and playing so far and adjusting by ear , since thats all it seems to do...But the S36's were really singing before and since Sunday , they seem just flat and dull...And I really do not think its the S36's fault...
Pick another AVR Denon/Yamaha whatever you feel more comfortable with from Best Buy and try it out and see how the subs sound and then return it within 2 weeks, that way you will land on the subs and the AVR and just pull the trigger on the AVR when you can...won't cost you a dime
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@Pulloutchamp if you're interested I may be selling my bedroom Denon X1200w
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post #37042 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 03:20 PM
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Pick another AVR Denon/Yamaha whatever you feel more comfortable with from Best Buy and try it out and see how the subs sound and then return it within 2 weeks, that way you will land on the subs and the AVR and just pull the trigger on the AVR when you can...won't cost you a dime
I may try that!

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@Pulloutchamp if you're interested I may be selling my bedroom Denon X1200w
I dont know the specs on the X1200 , but I would be looking for the 4K , atmos ready , at least 125watts per channel yadda yaddda yadda when I do purchase a new one..

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post #37043 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 03:23 PM
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Fixed it. Holy flat response !!!! Patience won here.


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post #37044 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 03:24 PM
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Fixed it. Holy flat response !!!! Patience won here.


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How did you do it?


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post #37045 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Pulloutchamp View Post
I may try that!





I dont know the specs on the X1200 , but I would be looking for the 4K , atmos ready , at least 125watts per channel yadda yaddda yadda when I do purchase a new one..


The 4300H can be had really cheap right now for about $700 and checks all boxes you mentioned. Hard to beat at that price for sure.


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post #37046 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
I do want to sell it. I'm currently asking $1500 for it but nobody has interest in it probably because I don't want to ship it :-) It sounds pretty amazing next to my couch. I do want a sub that is tuned lower though....when I bought the subwoofer, I thought the tune was at 16 hz but that most definitely is not the case.


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If you are thinking there may be something wrong with the sub, or if you doubt that it is actually tuned as low as it should be, take a close-mic measurement and you will know for sure.


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Fixed it. Holy flat response !!!! Patience won here.


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How? Graphs??
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post #37047 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperFist View Post
I thought I'd include this for future reference of anyone is having an inexplicable "Subwoofer Humming" problem.

Whilst testing the V1500 and S3000i, later I put the V1500 in the back of my room, which required a 40ft coaxial cable. So I purchased a cheap, thin one at Monoprice.com. Their low priced items have served me well in the past... but not this time.

I immediately noticed humming coming from the V1500. I immediately recalled Tom recommending someone to plug both coaxial cables into the Left/LFE and Right inputs to prevent this, so I did it, but to no avail. I changed power outlets, tried a surge protector, a cheater plug and even clip-on noise suppressor ferrite cores... again, to no avail.

I was obviously combing this thread and the entire AVS forum for "hum" and "humming" but it yielded no replicable results. So I combed Amazon and Monoprice products and reviews for a lead and I happened upon the 50ft High-quality Coaxial Audio/Video RCA CL2 Rated Cable - RG6/U 75ohm (for S/PDIF, Digital Coax, Subwoofer & Composite Video) from Monoprice.com. This completely removed the humming sound and reduced it to silence like it should be when nothing is playing.

There was a review that specifically stated it resolved their humming issue and I'm glad I bought it. I highly recommend it for anyone who is having humming issues with their subs!

Good luck with this cable. Just be careful to never touch it. They are built so poorly that it may short out when you barely touch it near the amp and short out your amp. I spent a couple extra dollars and bought some quality cables. Replacing amps just wasn't worth using a $7 cable to me.
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post #37048 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 04:20 PM
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Damn , Im back to square one! ..... I dont really know what happen or what or why , but all the amazement and pure satisfaction I had with the S36's is gone...Its really back to how I thought on day one , that it was close between the V18's and the S36's , but then a day or so later I felt the S36's came alive and left me not even wanting to hook the V18's back up. Well last night after a couple of days of this thought , I hooked the V18's back up just to clear my head and get a sound refresher...I really do not know what happened.
Up until Saturday it was pure bliss! I really dont know if that the circuit popping had something to do with it , but it was like the very next day or so that I thought I noticed something lacking and it just hasnt came back since sunday or so.. All the settings are the same on everything.. They really sounded neutered almost..Again I really think there is something screwy with my AVR that seems to cut signal to the subs. It was VERY apparent when I said it was like the S36's came to life , and also very apparent when it seems like im not getting 100% out of them..Im going to unplug everything from the AVR and the AVR itself and start over...I want that sound back!
Now that I think about it I noticed the same thing with my old Onkyo 818 receiver. Sometimes after a new calibration or a simple power cycle, everything would sound great and I mean great but as time went by the subs would sound underwhelming. I moved on to a Marantz receiver last May and now my subs sound great every time I turn them on.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #37049 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Fixed it. Holy flat response !!!! Patience won here.


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Don't tell me, you forgot to set the RSC back to large after cal... LOL

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post #37050 of 37546 Old 09-21-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
If you are thinking there may be something wrong with the sub, or if you doubt that it is actually tuned as low as it should be, take a close-mic measurement and you will know for sure.









How? Graphs??


Close mic meaning? I’m sorry I have to google that


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