Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 142 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #4231 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I should also point out PSA is likely not listing xmax as xmax will likely change throughout driver revisions. Further people might take the xmax spec and try to figure out output without knowing amplifier output or efficiency of the driver.

For example the SVS Plus series hasunder gone 5 revisions sense the beginning of the series. Further those are the revisions they felt had enough changed to update the number. The ultra had three revisions 12 (ultra 12, TV-12) 13 (Ultra 13.) and specs changed on these drivers. So it seems likely safer to give a total excursion figure that one most people can understand in inches and two won't put them on the spot if they change xmax or other specs along the way.

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post #4232 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Typically, I've seen the upper end of high xmax 15in drivers to be in the 20mm to 25mm range. Data-bass has reviewed one with a claimed 30mm xmax, but found in testing it is more like a 20mm xmax.

True, but its not unreasonable to assume a 15 inch driver to reach 25mm to 30mm anymore. Further Tom has a history of using high xmax drivers. Then again it doesn't really matter The total package is what matters really.

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post #4233 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

So are you pretty much dialed in now mp, or feel you’re well on your way?

Still working at . I havevxv30f on the way. But question is do I need one?
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post #4234 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 11:52 AM
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Hi mp5475, curious what the receiver set the sub trim to with xv15s gain at 12?

I think it's was -1 or 0. I knew I had a problem. When subs were at 1 to 2 o'clock , it's like -10
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post #4235 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Still working at . I havevxv30f on the way. But question is do I need one?

No, you don't need one..................you need "two".


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post #4236 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 11:59 AM
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Still working at . I havevxv30f on the way. But question is do I need one?

I doubt you will need the xv30, the problem is you are barely utilizing the xv15's. set the gain at 2:00 then add 5-7db back into the avr sub gain so its reading -5/-3 range. Dont worry about having them calibrated to 75db or whatever...imo no avr correction software properly calibrates the sub gain. Go off of what your ears tell ya sounds right, not what its suppose to be on paper.

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post #4237 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

Still working at . I havevxv30f on the way. But question is do I need one?
Yes, do not ever doubt your decision.
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post #4238 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Yes, do not ever doubt your decision.

I should clarify, more is always better...lol

Point was I do not think his 15's were setup correctly which could be the primary reason for ordering a xv30f...I mean seriously, 3 xv15"s is already alot of woofage.

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post #4239 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 01:20 PM
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Isnt it true that each sub after the 1st is only adding 3-5 db anyways? I know Tom told me that the 2nd xv30f would add, i think 3-5 db. It was close to that if not exactly that.

Currently i have my xv 30s gain matched at ~3 o'clock or 3/4 and my avr set to 0. This strictly for rew testing, but when i take a break and listen to some tunes my neighbors window frames shake. Anything not securely fastened to our walls has fallen off. AVR volume is -10

I need to set my mic up for a true spl reading.
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post #4240 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Isnt it true that each sub after the 1st is only adding 3-5 db anyways? I know Tom told me that the 2nd xv30f would add, i think 3-5 db. It was close to that if not exactly that.

Currently i have my xv 30s gain matched at ~3 o'clock or 3/4 and my avr set to 0. This strictly for rew testing, but when i take a break and listen to some tunes my neighbors window frames shake. Anything not securely fastened to our walls has fallen off. AVR volume is -10

I need to set my mic up for a true spl reading.

Well for example if you take two XV30's and stack them you'd gain roughly 6db, now if you had two at your front wall with one in the left corner and the other in the right corner you'd only gain about 4db. As long as they weren't like 30ft apart from each other of course.
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post #4241 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Isnt it true that each sub after the 1st is only adding 3-5 db anyways? I know Tom told me that the 2nd xv30f would add, i think 3-5 db. It was close to that if not exactly that.

Currently i have my xv 30s gain matched at ~3 o'clock or 3/4 and my avr set to 0. This strictly for rew testing, but when i take a break and listen to some tunes my neighbors window frames shake. Anything not securely fastened to our walls has fallen off. AVR volume is -10

I need to set my mic up for a true spl reading.

no its a 6db gain going from one sub to duals of the exact same model. depending on placement will determine if the full 6db will be heard at the main LP. I get a full 6db gain with my subs being 3m apart at the LP. you have to double power and driver displacement each time a sub is added to net a full 6db gain. That being said adding a xv30 to 3 xv15's is probably only going to yield another 2-3db . Now if the one is dealing with a huge room and all 4 subs are spread out 4-5m apart, then you might only be looking at 2-3db added for each additional sub.

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post #4242 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I should clarify, more is always better...lol

Point was I do not think his 15's were setup correctly which could be the primary reason for ordering a xv30f...I mean seriously, 3 xv15"s is already alot of woofage.

Yes. Since I set it to 3 o'clock, it's what been wanting for so long. I think I don't need the xv30. I should save for two triax for next year
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post #4243 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 01:34 PM
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Everyone talks about stacking subs. Would you get the same performance by placing them side by side (touching each other) ?

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post #4244 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 01:43 PM
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yes...its all about keeping them in the same 1/4 wave length to get the subs to "couple" per say. stacking them would reduce foot print but has no performance advantage over side by side.
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Everyone talks about stacking subs. Would you get the same performance by placing them side by side (touching each other) ?

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Mine are side by side 11ft from the LP. biggrin.gif
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post #4246 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5475 View Post

I think it's was -1 or 0. I knew I had a problem. When subs were at 1 to 2 o'clock , it's like -10

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I changed the setup...set gain around 2:00, rerun ypao, it pulls sub trim back to -7, then I add +5 back in...final number in avr is around -2 running 5db hot. Perfect! I cant stand a flat response across the FR, subs must be running atleast 5db hot and sometimes I run them 8-10db hot depending on the source content.

Gotcha, thanks.
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post #4247 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 02:09 PM
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Xmech: the mechanical limits of the driver at which point it can't move any further pushing to xmech or past it will result in the driver either bottoming or not being able to move any further, measured in mm

Maybe another way to put it for those that are more visual would be.. well if the power is on hand. smile.gif Sorry to those for the redundancy that have seen this pic!


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post #4248 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe another way to put it for those that are more visual would be.. well if the power is on hand. smile.gif Sorry to those for the redundancy that have seen this pic!



I love that pic. It makes me lol ever time. I think this was a problem of going past the drivers limits and having way to much power to the driver....wooops.
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post #4249 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 02:32 PM
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I love that pic. It makes me lol ever time. I think this was a problem of going past the drivers limits and having way to much power to the driver....wooops.

Yip! That’s a case of total disregard of Xmech biggrin.gif When I came across it I couldn't help but laugh. smile.gif

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post #4250 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 02:39 PM
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Hey basshead,

Other than higher level and more head room, do you think I would get more tactile difference ? Or do you think I won't be getting much out of it?

Thx
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post #4251 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 03:00 PM
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Hey basshead,

Other than higher level and more head room, do you think I would get more tactile difference ? Or do you think I won't be getting much out of it?

Thx

I think it will help cover the room with a more even response...all you are doing is evenly distributing the bass across the room, which is a good thing! Placement will determine the tactile response...I would put 2 subs nearfield for if you want a more tactile response. For example, even at low volumes such a -35 I can still feels the subs through the couch. It definately adds to the sound quality!

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I think it will help cover the room with a more even response...all you are doing is evenly distributing the bass across the room, which is a good thing! Placement will determine the tactile response...I would put 2 subs nearfield for if you want a more tactile response. For example, even at low volumes such a -35 I can still feels the subs through the couch. It definately adds to the sound quality!

For my MLP, I can't have two of my subs near field . If I want smooth response that is.
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post #4253 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 03:11 PM
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For my MLP, I can't have two of my subs near field . If I want smooth response that is.

Yup, each room is different. I find nearfield has only worked for me when running multiples. I am currently adding a pair nearfield in my room to smooth out the FR from the ones stacked at the front of the room.

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post #4254 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 03:15 PM
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For my MLP, I can't have two of my subs near field . If I want smooth response that is.

You will when the 4th sub shows up.

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You will when the 4th sub shows up.

You got that right! Part of me want to for two triax though
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You got that right! Part of me want to for two triax though

The thing is if you couldnt get a smooth response with two subs prior, going to dual triaxes wont fix that problem. its been stated many times, 2 lesser subs is better than one greater sub...so 4 xv subs would be the better choice over dual triaxes with your funky room acoustics. Obvioulsy the xv subs wont have the output or extension of the triax's, but if you are trying to get a smooth response across the seats, I would keep headin the direction you are going.

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The thing is if you couldnt get a smooth response with two subs prior, going to dual triaxes wont fix that problem. its been stated many times, 2 lesser subs is better than one greater sub...so 4 xv subs would be the better choice over dual triaxes with your funky room acoustics. Obvioulsy the xv subs wont have the output or extension of the triax's, but if you are trying to get a smooth response across the seats, I would keep headin the direction you are going.


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post #4258 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The thing is if you couldnt get a smooth response with two subs prior, going to dual triaxes wont fix that problem. its been stated many times, 2 lesser subs is better than one greater sub...so 4 xv subs would be the better choice over dual triaxes with your funky room acoustics. Obvioulsy the xv subs wont have the output or extension of the triax's, but if you are trying to get a smooth response across the seats, I would keep headin the direction you are going.

I would take dual Triax's over the other options. At some point we have to also take about room treatments as well as multiple sub woofers.

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I would to if cost was not a factor...however my point was not to expect the triax's to fix the response issue created by the room.
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I would take dual Triax's over the other options. At some point we have to also take about room treatments as well as multiple sub woofers.

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post #4260 of 29893 Old 07-14-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I would to if cost was not a factor...however my point was not to expect the triax's to fix the response issue created by the room.

We will have to disagree here. For if you not getting enough output with 1 or 2 subs then there is no reason to add more of the same even if it evens out your response. Your still not going to get the output you want. That's why I'm not a fan of having 3 or 4 lower ends subs.

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