Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 241 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 11-10-2013, 06:14 PM
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lol, I say the same to you

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Old 11-10-2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Welcome to the family!! Glad your enjoying them. I must admit seeing the xv15 without a base is weird for me haha

Thanks Brian. I really like what I hearing so far with the XV15s. Not having the base plate made it a bit easier to move the subs around since the weight is less now.

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Old 11-10-2013, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Agreed as this comment was what I responded to: "That's why I wasn't sure if a sealed sub could work out, with out having to buy a triax!"

Again, agreeing with you, that's why I suggested it's an intrinsic thing as based on the above, I didn't feel comfortable saying, buy two Triax subwoofers with a possible eye on a third in the near future. biggrin.gif

The ULF thread opened my eyes as to what's what with what regarding intrinsic details. Above a four star system and the individual is in the wonderful world of esoteric. If one is wanting to pack their room with subwoofers, in the PSA line of subwoofers, three XS30s should work to get someone into the ballpark of where they're wanting to go.

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Most people probably won't need more than 2 Triax's unless they have a very large room. Or are insane for bass.

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Old 11-10-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crazy joe divola View Post

Are the Power Sound Audio sub amps made in the U.S.A. (nothing is listed under Amplifier Specifications)? Are the amps UL listed?

The BASH amps (all the subs in the power x line use these) are designed in Canada and I think built in China. The Amplifier in the Triax is built in the United States. Sadly I don't know of any plate amp manufactures expect Speaker Power (the designer of the amplifier in the Triax) that build and offer USA based amps.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:57 AM
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I have lots of them. For insane heavy kick drums, check out a band from Poland called Decapitated, the album, "Nihility," and most specifically the song, "Spheres of Madness." If those intro kick drums don't get your blood pumping, I'll let you kick me square in the nuts. For overall heavy bass and slam factor, you can't top a Swedish band called, "Hideous Divinity," specifically the song, "The Servant's Speech." I'm a life long metal head. If you need more recommendations, I have enough to keep you busy until your next life time. PM me anytime

Thanks for those recommendations. I'm almost ashamed to say that I like the sound of Decapitated and Hideous Divinity a bit more than Gojra and Dethklok, which were mentioned previously. I say ashamed simply because of the band's names -- it reminds me of an old parody I saw long ago where a veejay was reviewing totally opaque metal bands, with gradually more disgusting names... It's actually amazing that we can instantly find out about those (relatively) obscure bands as soon as we hear from them just with a Youtube search biggrin.gif

Also, I haven't yet had the occasion to listen to that on my main setup. With my GF at home with our 2-months-old baby, it seems like opportunities to listen to metal in the living room are becoming really scarce. Still, while above average for metal, the bass content of all those suggestions is really not on par with, say, the last Nine Inch Nails or Daft Punk albums for example. In those, the dynamic range seems much better; even the non-synth parts seem to have great, profound bass in comparison.

Anyway, since it seems like my daily commute to work is the only place where I can play loud music that fit my tastes... anybody know if PSA will make a car sub soon? biggrin.gif By the way, I know this thread is really not the place for this, but I'm curious about what anyone here (i.e. experienced HT enthusiasts) have to say about car subs. I have none but I'm considering the option biggrin.gif

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Old 11-12-2013, 11:19 AM
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I'm strongly eyeing the XS30 but it appears it doesn't come with any sort of base to sit upon? For those of you that own this sub, do you think a) I would benefit from placing it on some type of riser, since it appears to sit flat on the floor (my room has wood laminate flooring), and b) if you use this sub with a riser/platform....what do you use? Thanks all.

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Old 11-12-2013, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by morbidcorpse View Post

I'm strongly eyeing the XS30 but it appears it doesn't come with any sort of base to sit upon? For those of you that own this sub, do you think a) I would benefit from placing it on some type of riser, since it appears to sit flat on the floor (my room has wood laminate flooring), and b) if you use this sub with a riser/platform....what do you use? Thanks all.

i have wood floors min is sitting on...it has rubber feet separating it from the floor...you should be fine
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

i have wood floors min is sitting on...it has rubber feet separating it from the floor...you should be fine


Brian you keep updating your equipment list, any projector on your radar smile.gif? just ordered x4000 from AVS to replace x3000, how do you like the x4000?

I am also eyeing xs 30 to replace xv15 before my 30 day return date still, hoping the x4000 can care the port noise from the monument screen.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

Brain you keep updating your equipment list, any projector on your radar smile.gif? just ordered x4000 from AVS to replace x3000, how do you like the x4000?

I am also eyeing xs 30 to replace xv15 before my 30 day return date still, hoping the x4000 can care the port noise from the monument screen.

yea I have had a good run at poker...so I was able to make a bunch of upgrades....

The x4000 is AWESOME!! the xt32 is a HUGE upgrade over XT...i never thought it would be..and am mad I didnt make the switch earlier..
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

the xt32 is a HUGE upgrade over XT...i never thought it would be..and am mad I didnt make the switch earlier..

It's this type of talk that needs to outlawed.

If I'm correct, it already is as this type of talk is disruptive and comes under the heading of disturbing the peace. tongue.gif...biggrin.gif
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:12 PM
 
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It's this type of talk that needs to outlawed.

If I'm correct, it already is as this type of talk is disruptive and comes under the heading of disturbing the peace. tongue.gif...biggrin.gif

haha....seriously I need to stay off forums...it make me spend too much money lol
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:25 PM
 
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haha....seriously I need to stay off forums...it make me spend too much money lol

My position, I'm financially close to being able to pull the trigger on a single or pair of FV15HPs but the AVR is in serious need of an upgrade so I can go from XT to XT32 and I can't do both.

More than likely, that will have to wait until my b-day next year. Boo-hoo me. biggrin.gif
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:17 AM
 
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was fiddling around with minidsp last night (now that I got the longer USB cord to make changes on the fly inreal time) and added a custom L/T filter...much flatter than the built in low shelf...that thing is awesome for only 100$ highly recommended.

so now I am +/- 4db down to about 8hz eek.gif

i am curious what it will do the headroom though...even though I know I dont need to max out the sub in my room
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

was fiddling around with minidsp last night (now that I got the longer USB cord to make changes on the fly inreal time) and added a custom L/T filter...much flatter than the built in low shelf...that thing is awesome for only 100$ highly recommended.

so now I am +/- 4db down to about 8hz eek.gif

i am curious what it will do the headroom though...even though I know I dont need to max out the sub in my room

take a max spl sweep before and after with REW and you will know. 8hz extension looks great on paper, but how much output the sub can put out @ 8hz is more important.

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Old 11-13-2013, 07:48 AM
 
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how do you max spl sweep it?
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

how do you max spl sweep it?

Using the spl meter in REW, play a test tone, ( use the lowest frequency befor the response falls off +/-3db) turn it up until the sub will not get any louder, then back it down 3db and run a sweep with REW.

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Old 11-13-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post


The x4000 is AWESOME!! the xt32 is a HUGE upgrade over XT...i never thought it would be..and am mad I didnt make the switch earlier..

I hear ya there. Watched Man of Steel last night and wow! The clarity is shocking and the bass is plentiful.

Ordering XV30f #2 next week! I have to go through a few movies so that I can compare now vs. having both subs in the room.Curious to see what XT32+SubEQ HT can do with a pair of those monsters.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

take a max spl sweep before and after with REW and you will know. 8hz extension looks great on paper, but how much output the sub can put out @ 8hz is more important.

And using the MiniDSP, you can always boost the low-end and trade max output for extension. If you don't listen that loud it's actually a great idea, and the trade-off is easier to perform on sealed subs than on vented subs, where there isn't much one can do below the tuning.

That being said, to be perceptible, a 10 Hz waveform has to be played quite loud, especially if it's played with circa-20 Hz content.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Using the spl meter in REW, play a test tone, ( use the lowest frequency befor the response falls off +/-3db) turn it up until the sub will not get any louder, then back it down 3db and run a sweep with REW.

Also it's interesting to stack up response curves taken, say, at 3 dB intervals. That way you can clearly see compression in the lower frequencies (typically due to the limiter).
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:54 PM
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By the way Brian, user Lecter83 just posted in the SVS owner's thread a pretty interesting graph showing the lower limits of human perception for ultra low bass, allegedly according to an obscure standard:



I would take that with a grain of salt as the only other place where I saw a DIN standard was in Paradigm's specs rolleyes.gif and the curve is suspiciously linear... But if it's reasonably accurate, that means that for a 8 Hz waveform to be noticeable, you'd have to reach north of 100 dB SPL, whereas 20 Hz requires only about 72 dB SPL.

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Old 11-13-2013, 08:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

By the way Brian, user Lecter83 just posted in the SVS owner's thread a pretty interesting graph showing the lower limits of human perception for ultra low bass, allegedly according to an obscure standard:

Good news. The people in the control booth, have taken the above into consideration when they tracked the sound track.

As long as you're flat, you're golden.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:10 PM
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Good news. The people in the control booth, have taken the above into consideration when they tracked the sound track.

As long as you're flat, you're golden.

Well of course not. If you play flat down to 8 Hz but at 80 dB SPL tops, according to the graph above, you won't perceive anything below about 15 Hz. If your sub can push 100 dB SPL at 8 Hz, then you're golden. You're right that the source can be EQed with human perception taken into consideration, but this is the minimum threshold for hearing those frequencies. Below those levels you're getting nothing...

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Old 11-13-2013, 09:11 PM
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Also it's interesting to stack up response curves taken, say, at 3 dB intervals. That way you can clearly see compression in the lower frequencies (typically due to the limiter).

Yup. smile.gif

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Old 11-14-2013, 05:46 AM
 
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Well of course not. If you play flat down to 8 Hz but at 80 dB SPL tops, according to the graph above, you won't perceive anything below about 15 Hz. If your sub can push 100 dB SPL at 8 Hz, then you're golden. You're right that the source can be EQed with human perception taken into consideration, but this is the minimum threshold for hearing those frequencies. Below those levels you're getting nothing...

can PSA subs reach that output level at 8hz?

again how to we measure that without damaging the sub?
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

can PSA subs reach that output level at 8hz?

again how to we measure that without damaging the sub?

Maybe a Triax having much luck and if the room is small ... Although to do that safely, it may be necessary a couple of them.

I have a DIY 24" sealed and in my small room achievement 105db @ 10hz @ 2m (but the room referzo helps a lot to achieve these numbers and size).
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:50 AM
 
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interesting
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:19 AM
 
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Well of course not. If you play flat down to 8 Hz but at 80 dB SPL tops, according to the graph above, you won't perceive anything below about 15 Hz.

Agreed, but the sound engineers have already EQ everything sonically flat. This phenomenon has already been corrected for. If you're flat, you're reproducing what the sound engineers wanted you to hear. In short, you're golden. If you jack anything up, then your outside their purvey which isn't a crime, but in doing so, nothing is being corrected for other than the shortcomings of the subwoofer sound reproduction system.

Stating the obvious, that's what all those sliders on the sound board are for. They may have a smile shape on their sound board but to replicate what they recorded, the end user needs to have a flat response. And if one doesn't have a flat response, the end user is adding or subtracting away from what the sliders on the sound board represent.

As to 8Hz, assuming the driver is capable, that's an amplifier problem as it takes more energy to reproduce the lower octaves based on the demands of room acoustics and if the subwoofer isn't up to the task of integrating well with room acoustics then the end user has to acquire a subwoofer system that has the amplification necessary to easily handle 8Hz or one has to give up headroom and their expectations. Quid pro quo baby. biggrin.gif

The point, the Phon Chart was taken into consideration at the time the tracks were laid down. And if the end user wants a system that's 8Hz capable, it's up to the end user to acquire a system that's capable of reference flat to 8Hz. And if they can't get a subwoofer system that's reference flat to 8Hz, then they're going have to expect to be disappointed.

Personally, we can only afford a system that when purchased, installed and EQ'd, will expectedly be reference flat to 12Hz and if I'm lucky will have usable 8Hz but I have no expectation of being reference flat to 8Hz. And I won't know how the system will perform within the confines of our room acoustics, due to the semi-open spaces at each end of our living room, until the system is installed and measured.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to support my comments and clarify the why of my comments to remove any misunderstanding. And if I've made errors or omissions, anybody is welcome to jump in and correct my comments as it's about accuracy and proper understanding of the process and the best I can lay claim to, is that of an incompetent old fool. cool.gif

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Old 11-14-2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

can PSA subs reach that output level at 8hz?

again how to we measure that without damaging the sub?

There are not many single subs that can reach reference output down to 8hz. It takes multiple subs and alot of power...start reading the ULF score thread to further extend your knowledge base. My system is reference capable down to 15hz, but getting reference down below 10hz is a whole different ball game.

I posted how to measure that...your not going to damage the sub unless you play a test tone for a decent length of time and smoke the voice coil. besides psa subs have soft limiters to keep from being over driven. I have tested my subs with out hurting them, you just have to use some sense. How do you think Data-bass does max burst testing? They run all subs up on thier limiters and test for compression, thd, group delay...etc. If you look at data-bass.com you will see no sub is +/-3db through the frequency range at max output.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:13 AM
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Is there even any content in movies or music that has 8hz info? Is wanting a sub that extends to 8hz like wanting a car that can go 200mph.......Fun to talk about, but in reality it means nothing?
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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There is plenty of 8hz material there is even movies that extends to 1hz. Is it a ton of content? No. But its there and i want (notice i didnt say need) to experience the single digit content at some point and just looking how to get there

For my application my ability to be flat to 10hz is perfect. But would love to extend that a touch more.
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