Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 244 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7291 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 05:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

There is less the 1dB difference between the XV15 and XS30 from 30hz and down, and below 15hz the XS30 is going to have the advantage. So I wouldn't be concerned with losing any low end by switching to the XS30. IMO the XS30 has better performance, the advantage of the XV15 is that it's $350 less.

I think the XV15 is one of the best bang for buck subs on the market, but in outright performance the XS30 is a better sub.

while I agree, I feel having both, the xs30 is a MUCH better sub, and that is saying something! While I never heard port noise from the xv15, the sound the xs30 emits is very smooth and very sweet. I would highly recommend it over the xv15 if the OP can afford it.

Also about the advantage to the xv15 around 18hz. it is VERY small to the xv15 and in my room the xs30 has enough room gain (alot actually) to overcome it, so it actually according to my REW has more output than my XV15 did at the same level...i did not max output test yet)

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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

I don't know if want want go dual yet, would rather go with a single xs30. hoping XT32 would help.

Am I the only one with a single xv15 hearing port noise with scene smile.gif?

I have the xs30 and XT32 and I feel if you are going single sub this is the way to go!
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post #7292 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

while I agree, I feel having both, the xs30 is a MUCH better sub, and that is saying something! While I never heard port noise from the xv15, the sound the xs30 emits is very smooth and very sweet. I would highly recommend it over the xv15 if the OP can afford it.

Also about the advantage to the xv15 around 18hz. it is VERY small to the xv15 and in my room the xs30 has enough room gain (alot actually) to overcome it, so it actually according to my REW has more output than my XV15 did at the same level...i did not max output test yet)
I have the xs30 and XT32 and I feel if you are going single sub this is the way to go!

You can not assume that unless you do a max output test with both subs. I suggest you spend some time reading the ULF thread.
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post #7293 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 07:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I suggest you spend some time reading the ULF thread.

Not a good idea as doing so will make one increase their budget; reach right out and twist their arm, hard, behind their back. Reading the ULF thread will give one an understanding of why choices are good and bad and make one want more. Reading that thread will give choices perspective as to why choices are good-n-bad when compared to other choices in various settings.

Ignorance is bliss and when one reads that thread, they'll lose their innocence and find themselves wanting or needing more. Reading the ULF thread will remove any lingering doubt why the choice one has been looking at isn't the best choice and why a choice they've been ignoring, is the better choice. Reading the ULF thread will, without a doubt, help one find their true subwoofer bliss and in the process, save them money as making a proper choice will eliminated the need to upgrade, again and again and again.

The ULF thread has been the best single subwoofer guide I've been exposed to and is highly recommended reading.

basshead81, have I mentioned how impressed I was with you recommending that I look at the ULF thread? biggrin.gif

(i'll stop with the gushing now)
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post #7294 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

while I agree, I feel having both, the xs30 is a MUCH better sub, and that is saying something! While I never heard port noise from the xv15, the sound the xs30 emits is very smooth and very sweet. I would highly recommend it over the xv15 if the OP can afford it.

Also about the advantage to the xv15 around 18hz. it is VERY small to the xv15 and in my room the xs30 has enough room gain (alot actually) to overcome it, so it actually according to my REW has more output than my XV15 did at the same level...i did not max output test yet)
I have the xs30 and XT32 and I feel if you are going single sub this is the way to go!



Brian, how big is your room?
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post #7295 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 07:47 AM
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I know the Monument scene is right there, but what are the top 3 most challenging scenes in a movie?
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post #7296 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

Brian, how big is your room?

13x17x8
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post #7297 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

Brian, how big is your room?

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

There is a .5db difference on average in the 20-31hz. Around the port tune(18hz) the XV probably has a advantage. Look at the ULF thread, the XS30 has a .7 SI (94.7db @ 16hz, 99.7db @ 20hz) and the XV15 has a 1.0 SI(98.1db @ 16hz, 103db @ 20hz).

I do agree the XS30 should have the advantage below 15hz and is a better sub.

just an FYI the ULF only has a GUESS at the xs30. it was never measured
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post #7298 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

13x17x8


I'm in 12' x 21' x 8' with the sub next to my loveseat which is 13' from the screen wall, with near field placement I can really hear the port noise.
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post #7299 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

I'm in 12' x 21' x 8' with the sub next to my loveseat which is 13' from the screen wall, with near field placement I can really hear the port noise.
im about 9 feet from my sub placement. I never heard the port noise. but that makes sense.
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post #7300 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

.....with near field placement I can really hear the port noise.

The simple, you're asking too much out of too little. What have you considered regarding adding to your existing subwoofer system or upgrading a couple more levels up the subwoofer feeding chain? Have you considered adding a second XV15 or trading up to a XV30f?
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post #7301 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

I know the Monument scene is right there, but what are the top 3 most challenging scenes in a movie?

Not sure which are the *most* but Pulse's Server Room scene is very demanding. I tested it in several locations and most often something goes wrong: grille rattles on the sub, sub buzzes on the floor, air ducts resonate, port noise, name it tongue.gif

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post #7302 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post


just an FYI the ULF only has a GUESS at the xs30. it was never measured

I know what it is...and its a very educated guess. The **** is not rocket science brah.

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post #7303 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:00 AM
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Speaking of WOW "Pod Emerges" scene....while I've been tweaking my setup, I've been using that scene over and over again for testing.

I've noticed that the first two steps that the pod takes when crawling out of the hole sound a bit "flabby"...the bass seems to pulsate quickly 5 or 6 times immediately following each step. I've tried listening from -40 all the way up to reference, and the "flabby-ness" is there no matter what, I can only assume it's in the audio mix.

Anyone else familiar with this particular scene have the same experience, or is it somehow my system?
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post #7304 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

If he is listening at reference (0db) which I believe he is, then DEQ has no effect at all, so turning it off won't help. It sounds like the OP is fixating on "port noise" and will likely never be happy.............. This is the weirdest "official owners thread" that I have ever been a part of.

Fair enough...I was going off of what others ran into with DEQ turned on in another thread. Funny you mention weird when you are the first to ever say the XV sub looks better without base plate. tongue.gif
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post #7305 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The simple, you're asking too much out of too little. What have you considered regarding adding to your existing subwoofer system or upgrading a couple more levels up the subwoofer feeding chain? Have you considered adding a second XV15 or trading up to a XV30f?


Again I'm not asking for too much, my issue is not with limit of the sub but it's with the port noise. If the sub was sealed with no port noise I would be okay with it's limit/ output level or what ever you want to call it, I know there are no free luncheons but I'm willing to go with a lesser sub like xs15 so I don't hear port noise.

Again I love the sub and it's pressurize my room with ease but OHF is my demo movie and it hurts anytime I hear it.
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post #7306 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

Again I'm not asking for too much, my issue is not with limit of the sub but it's with the port noise.

---snip---

...but OHF is my demo movie and it hurts anytime I hear it.

The port noise is politely telling you, you've reach the limits of the subwoofer. You're moving air through the port. You're asking the subwoofer to move more air though the port than it's designed for. You have three choices. 1. Live with what you have. 2. Try to EQ your subwoofer so it won't be over driven. 3. Upgrade your system.

If OHF hurts someone's ears with what they have, because it sounds like crap, then they need more subwoofage. As always, based on available budget, it's their call what they're willing to live with.

Just saying, as we all know, hobbies are always about the Benjamins and how many of them a hobbyist is willing to throw at a problem. This metric applies to flying kites, knitting or buying outboard motors for a fancy pants bass boat.

-
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post #7307 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I know what it is...and its a very educated guess. The **** is not rocket science brah.

not sure how to take the "tone" of this being called "Brah" and all but I will take it as joking around..

either way. I KNOW its not rocket science...thus exactly why you are being contradictory, with saying I cant make assumptions...because its excatly what they did with their "educated" guess...either way you slice it is a assumption. Not sure why their assumptions are more valid then mine. but thats ok. wink.gif I know I have a good response (just as good as my previous xv15) with deeper and louder extension. I am not missing the 1db difference at 18hz Ill tell you that much smile.gif

cheers
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post #7308 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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According to the ULF thread a single XV15 numbers are 98.8dB@16hz and 105dB@20hz, while a single XS30 is 98.5dB@16hz and 104.8dB@20hz.

I would pretty much have to call bull***** on anyone that says they would be able to tell the difference between those two comparisons of numbers. From 25hz and up things are only going to favor the XS30, same goes for anything below 15hz.
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post #7309 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

not sure how to take the "tone" of this being called "Brah" and all but I will take it as joking around..

either way. I KNOW its not rocket science...thus exactly why you are being contradictory, with saying I cant make assumptions...because its excatly what they did with their "educated" guess...either way you slice it is a assumption. Not sure why their assumptions are more valid then mine. but thats ok. wink.gif I know I have a good response (just as good as my previous xv15) with deeper and louder extension. I am not missing the 1db difference at 18hz Ill tell you that much smile.gif

cheers

The XV15 has a 8db advantage over the XS15 around its port tunes. The XS30 has twice the displacement and 50% more power then the XS15 which is a 4.5db gain...that still leaves it down 3.5db to the XV15 around its tune. All XS and XV subs use the same drivers so its easy to extrapolate the data and make a educated gues.. The XS30 will still have more output below 15hz and above 25hz most likely. If you choose to not believe the data then thats on you but I think Dom did a great job putting that thread together and all of the Gurus tend to think its spot on. So until you provide some data showing otherwise, I am rolling with that thread, especially since the majority of it is based off of data-bass.com. smile.gif

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post #7310 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The port noise is politely telling you, you've reach the limits of the subwoofer. You're moving air through the port. You're asking the subwoofer to move more air though the port than it's designed for. You have three choices. 1. Live with what you have. 2. Try to EQ your subwoofer so it won't be over driven. 3. Upgrade your system.

If OHF hurts someone's ears with what they have, because it sounds like crap, then they need more subwoofage. As always, based on available budget, it's their call what they're willing to live with.

Just saying, as we all know, hobbies are always about the Benjamins and how many of them a hobbyist is willing to throw at a problem. This metric applies to flying kites, knitting or buying outboard motors for a fancy pants bass boat.

-

My Denon X4000 just arrived, I going to re calibrate my system tonight (I'm hoping it can help). If it does not care it, will send the xv15 back n go with a sealed xs30 or !!!!!!!!!.
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The XV15 has a 8db advantage over the XS15 around its port tunes. The XS30 has twice the displacement and 50% more power then the XS15 which is a 4.5db gain...that still leaves it down 3.5db to the XV15 around its tune. All XS and XV subs use the same drivers so its easy to extrapolate the data and make a educated gues.. The XS30 will still have more output below 15hz and above 25hz most likely. If you choose to not believe the data then thats on you but I think Dom did a great job putting that thread together and all of the Gurus tend to think its spot on. So until you provide some data showing otherwise, I am rolling with that thread, especially since the majority of it is based off of data-bass.com. smile.gif

my only problem at this point is I can t measure the xv15 since it is long gone...oh well

but i will take the data from the guys who designed the subs, not the guys who fabricated a rating system (although I think its great but I trust the engineers not the users)
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post #7312 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 10:20 AM
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I will say that I'm not to sure about the estimation of the XS30 in the ULF thread, only based on how it directly compares to the Epik Empire numbers. Both subs have the exact same sized enclosures and I would give the edge to the XS30 as far as the drivers go and it also has a slightly more powerful amp. Yet the measured numbers make it quite a bit more powerful over the estimated XS30 numbers from the chart in the ULF thread.

Also according to the ULF thread chart the Empire has the exact same SI converted number as a XV15 @20hz and a larger SI number @16hz. But the XV15 has more output, what am I missing with these converted SI numbers? Am I missing something?

I would think the XS30 would be inline with the Epik Empire sub.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

My Denon X4000 just arrived, I going to re calibrate my system tonight (I'm hoping it can help). If it does not care it, will send the xv15 back n go with a sealed xs30 or !!!!!!!!!.

Hopefully, recalibrating with XT32 will be a "HUGE" improvement. I'll look forward to your comments regarding how much XT32 helped with your situation.
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post #7314 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 10:27 AM
 
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Hopefully, recalibrating with XT32 will be a "HUGE" improvement. I'll look forward to your comments regarding how much XT32 helped with your situation.

booga24 awesome. I have no doubt it will make a big improvement..looking forward to the results!
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post #7315 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 10:49 AM
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^^^^^ thanks guys for rooting me on to spend more money smile.gif, after this I think I would have to deactivate my account. This is a crazy and addictive hobby that makes you wanna spend and spend.


Seriously I am looking forward to tonight.
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post #7316 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 11:39 AM
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XV30f #2 is on it's way biggrin.gif (booga you are sooo right about this forum and spending lol)

Thursday can't get here quick enough..
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post #7317 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

According to the ULF thread a single XV15 numbers are 98.8dB@16hz and 105dB@20hz, while a single XS30 is 98.5dB@16hz and 104.8dB@20hz.

. . . From 25hz and up things are only going to favor the XS30, same goes for anything below 15hz.

This is pretty much exactly what Tom V. told me when I was trying to decide between the XV15 and the XS30. I went with the XS30 for the extra output below 15hz, and also because I'd never had a sealed sub before and wanted to try it.

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post #7318 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

This is pretty much exactly what Tom V. told me when I was trying to decide between the XV15 and the XS30. I went with the XS30 for the extra output below 15hz, and also because I'd never had a sealed sub before and wanted to try it.

Yes the XS30 has more output below 15hz no doubt.

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post #7319 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

my only problem at this point is I can t measure the xv15 since it is long gone...oh well

but i will take the data from the guys who designed the subs, not the guys who fabricated a rating system (although I think its great but I trust the engineers not the users)

The data posted in the ULF thread is the same... Told me from day one the XV15 has a advantage around its tune and the XS30 has more everywhere else. I am not sure why that bothers you. Its the nature of the beast...ported subs have a 6-8db advantage over a sealed sub of the same caliber around the port tune. Go to data-bass and compare the SB12NSD to the PB12NSD. There is a 6db difference around the PB12 tune. Look at the PB13 in sealed vs 15hz mode...same thing. The law of physics state that doubling displacement with the exact same driver is a 3db gain. Doubling power is also a 3db gain, but since the XS30 has only 50% more power your looking at a 4.5 db gain from the XS15 in the lower octaves. Were only talking about the Port tune anyway, the XS30 has more everywhere else and is a better sub. Neither sub has enough lowend to make any real use of it anyway. You need 2-3 XV15's or XS30's to get reference level output below 20hz. 10hz extension does not mean much if you can not get atleast 105-110db to pressurize the room. Remember frequencies below 20hz are felt not herd.
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post #7320 of 31544 Old 11-18-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The data posted in the ULF thread is the same... Told me from day one the XV15 has a advantage around its tune and the XS30 has more everywhere else. I am not sure why that bothers you. Its the nature of the beast...ported subs have a 6-8db advantage over a sealed sub of the same caliber around the port tune. Go to data-bass and compare the SB12NSD to the PB12NSD. There is a 6db difference around the PB12 tune. Look at the PB13 in sealed vs 15hz mode...same thing. The law of physics state that doubling displacement with the exact same driver is a 3db gain. Doubling power is also a 3db gain, but since the XS30 has only 50% more power your looking at a 4.5 db gain from the XS15 in the lower octaves. Were only talking about the Port tune anyway, the XS30 has more everywhere else and is a better sub. Neither sub has enough lowend to make any real use of it anyway. You need 2-3 XV15's or XS30's to get reference level output below 20hz. 10hz extension does not mean much if you can not get atleast 105-110db to pressurize the room. Remember frequencies below 20hz are felt not herd.

I have to disagree with your last sentence. If someone never listens at reference then why does it not mean anything?

If he were to listen at 95db's and is flat all they way to 10hz, does that mean nothing?

I will never listen at reference, loudest I have ever listened to is -15, maybe my ears are too sensitive or I don't have enough hearing damage yet smile.gif
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