Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 271 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8101 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

Interesting trade, why are you getting rid of your amps.

so could get the other subwoofer (bribe wife), since sub came first, now he can convientetly fail to sell the amp! wink.gif
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post #8102 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 04:02 PM
 
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No need for them. There is zero benefit to having monoblocks (I had to know and now I do) so I was able to get a TRUE upgrade for the money...a second sub!!

My xpa5 5 channel amp is just as awesome as the monoblocks AND I get dual subs. And my 2 channel sounds just as great with the xpa5 as with the xpa1's
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post #8103 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

No need for them. There is zero benefit to having monoblocks (I had to know and now I do) so I was able to get a TRUE upgrade for the money...a second sub!!

My xpa5 5 channel amp is just as awesome as the monoblocks AND I get dual subs. And my 2 channel sounds just as great with the xpa5 as with the xpa1's

So are you just running 5.1. I am asking because I have an Outlaw Audio 7125 and a X4000 on the way. I don't know whether to keep the Outlaw or sell it. Right now I use just 2 channels to run the fronts and the Sound and Vision review said the 7125 puts out 189W per channel, 2 channels running. I run the rest off my Onkyo 709.

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post #8104 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 04:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

So are you just running 5.1. I am asking because I have an Outlaw Audio 7125 and a X4000 on the way. I don't know whether to keep the Outlaw or sell it. Right now I use just 2 channels to run the fronts and the Sound and Vision review said the 7125 puts out 189W per channel, 2 channels running. I run the rest off my Onkyo 709.
Well. Actually 5.2 smile.gif

I use the x4000 as preamp only.
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post #8105 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 06:45 PM
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^^ Wonder now if using the X4000 as a whole would sound as good without the xpa5? Hint, hint: a third xs30 is coming...
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post #8106 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Yeah... I saw his posts at the shack...I spoke with him over at Audioholics.....would you believe I was given a infraction warning today ...and others on this forum simply walk on water and can do and say whatever they want...very disheartening. I might need a break from this place and restrict my visits to specific matter concerning Ascend or PSA related problems/or issues.

Take care of yourself Jeff and keep in touch...Bill..smile.gif

Thank you my friend for the well wishes. What's an infraction warning? rolleyes.gif You're probably better off with sticking to matters that concern your own interests. Walking on water requires who has the biggest and best boat feet. I will stay in touch and hope you do likewise. smile.gif Jeff
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post #8107 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 07:21 PM
 
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^^ Wonder now if using the X4000 as a whole would sound as good without the xpa5? Hint, hint: a third xs30 is coming...
Haha. I literally have no more room to fit one.
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post #8108 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ Wonder now if using the X4000 as a whole would sound as good without the xpa5? Hint, hint: a third xs30 is coming...
I ran it both ways and prefer the xpa-5 vs just the power of the x4000. But if you do not need more power then the xpa could be a waste.
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post #8109 of 37108 Old 01-13-2014, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Haha. I literally have no more room to fit one.
What if you want the third one badly? Then there will be room, ha ha.
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post #8110 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post

I ran it both ways and prefer the xpa-5 vs just the power of the x4000. But if you do not need more power then the xpa could be a waste.

I don't want an outboard Amp, more heat, more clutter, more cables. Nothing that I'm impressed by.....and then came along Mary in the form of a Denon AVR4520CI. See this review.

Note this comment: " I initially intended on reviewing it and then selling it, but instead I have already sold my Onkyo 5508, XPA-3 amp and XPA-1 monoblocks. I keep thinking to myself that the 4520 seems to be a little on the pricey side, but if you consider what any other processor with the same features would cost you and then add the expense of amplification, the 4520 price actually sounds like a bargain."

(note: he has already sold the 4520CI but you know how fickle reviewers are when they have a parade of gear going through their doors.)

All channels driven, the 4520Ci has 125wpc and is fully capable down to 4ohm. In my opinion, there's not enough in the XPA5 to merit a separate amplifier when met by this robust of an AVR unit. When driving a set of Home Theater based speakers at reference level play, the top of the receiver stays cool enough to run the palm of your hand over the top of the metal frame.

(i got a killer deal from JD at AVS sales)
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post #8111 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:34 AM
 
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I will never get rid of the xpa5 for a few reasons. 1) it allows me to never worry about what speakers i MAY get down the road...at 250 watts pper channel each with its own power supply...i will never have to worry. 2) I get to buy the "cheaper" avr the denon x4000 (or whatever comes out next with new features) for much less than the great 4520. the only difference between the two units is the amp section whic I clearly dont need with the xpa5.

so although I discovered having separate mono's for the main speakers has zero benefit (and managed to make 400$ profit by trying them out and selling them) I will never go away from separates for the reasons above YMMV


one side effect though of sellling the xpa1's....now my rack looks bare frown.gif
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post #8112 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

one side effect though of sellling the xpa1's....now my rack looks bare frown.gif

Now that is sad. tongue.gif

(i thought the Emotiva XPA-5 was 200wpc)

...confused.gif
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post #8113 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:38 AM
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Here's the "other side" that argument, Bee:

When it comes time to replace that receiver, you'll have to shell out the bucks for another flagship receiver in order to equal the quality of the 4520's amp section.

On the other hand, you can pair an outboard amp with a receiver that has a less robust power section, yet a comparable feature set (X4000), for about half the price. All in all, the X4000 + XPA-5 combo cost me about the same as a 4520 would have.

You're right, it takes more cables and more space, but an amp can last for decades, while a receiver will likely be technologically obsolete in 5-7 years (if not sooner). So, when it comes time for the next receiver upgrade, I won't have to spring for a flagship receiver, because I don't have to worry about amp power. I'm free to choose a lower-priced alternative that has the feature-set I want. In this way, I believe that having the outboard amp provides some flexibility that will allow for a less costly long-term upgrade path.

Just my $0.02. Not trying to criticize your choice, Bee. I'm sure you'll be very happy with your 4520. Just trying to show the other side of the argument. When I was planning my upgrade from my 3808CI, I went with the X4000 + XPA-5 combo, for the reasons noted above. Just thought I would point that out for anyone else struggling with the same decision.

The added flexibility can also be beneficial for those of us who don't live in the US, as we often don't have access to the best selection or the best prices on gear.

Edit:

Of course, while I was typing that novel, Brian made the same point, but far more succinctly!

2nd Edit:

Edited my post again to spare Bee's feelings, which I apparently damaged by saying there was a "flaw" in his argument. I guess those of us incapable of "independent thought" must be oh, so careful in our choice of words.
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Gear: Speakers (Paradigm Reference Studio Series): 40 v4 (front L/R), CC-690 v4 (centre), 20 v4 (surround L/R). PSA XS30 (subwoofer).
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post #8114 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Now that is sad. tongue.gif

(i thought the Emotiva XPA-5 was 200wpc)

...confused.gif

haha it is...but my speakers are 6ohm....so it would be 250 w/c....and 300 w/c into 4ohm
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post #8115 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Here's the flaw in that argument, Bee:

When it comes time to replace that receiver, you'll have to shell out the bucks for another flagship receiver in order to equal the quality of the 4520's amp section.

That's not a flaw. That's just a fact. It's reported by those who know much more than I, the 4520CI has the guts of the Marantz AV8801 which sells for a boatload more.

By the time the 4520CI become obsolete, then it will be time to spring for another flagship AVR. Where's the flaw?

(that's like saying, if you open this bottle, you're going have to buy another)

This, at the bottom, in the "Summing It Up" section, from one who reviewed the 4520CI.

" I initially intended on reviewing it and then selling it, but instead I have already sold my Onkyo 5508, XPA-3 amp and XPA-1 monoblocks. I keep thinking to myself that the 4520 seems to be a little on the pricey side, but if you consider what any other processor with the same features would cost you and then add the expense of amplification, the 4520 price actually sounds like a bargain."

The beauty to independent thought, there is no right answer. Today, our system because a fully reference capable system. biggrin.gif

And then again, the killer price that JD of AVS sales gave me, made this purchase.....a freaking steal.

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post #8116 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:47 AM
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I will never get rid of the xpa5 for a few reasons. 1) it allows me to never worry about what speakers i MAY get down the road...at 250 watts pper channel each with its own power supply...i will never have to worry. 2) I get to buy the "cheaper" avr the denon x4000 (or whatever comes out next with new features) for much less than the great 4520. the only difference between the two units is the amp section whic I clearly dont need with the xpa5.
Good comment. cool.gif

I used to have a Marantz SR6003 and an Emotiva UPA-5. I currently have a Denon AVR-X4000 and an Emotiva UPA-5. My next set-up will likely include a [receiver make & model]...and an Emotiva UPA-5. smile.gif
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post #8117 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:53 AM
 
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Bee...just out of curiosity (since i only know of your subs) what are you running for mains and surrounds/center
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post #8118 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 04:57 AM
 
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Main: Klipsch Epic CF-3s

Center Channel: Klipsch RC-64 II.

Surrounds: Klipsch KSP-S6

Yesterday, with the two FV15HPs banging away and the 4520CI, during the barrel roll (crash scene), FOTP, I measured 110.2dB.

(at +/- 0dB, MCV, mostly in the 100dB to 103dB range)

...biggrin.gif

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post #8119 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

No need for them. There is zero benefit to having monoblocks (I had to know and now I do) so I was able to get a TRUE upgrade for the money...a second sub!!

My xpa5 5 channel amp is just as awesome as the monoblocks AND I get dual subs. And my 2 channel sounds just as great with the xpa5 as with the xpa1's

I'm not really sure why people think that an amp is going to provide better sound. The amp. only provides adequate power to drive the speaker. That's why you didn't hear a difference in sound between your mono and the XPA-5. However, once you start listening to super duper loud level you might need more power to drive the speakers this is when an amplifier with more power is needed.
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post #8120 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

I will never get rid of the xpa5 for a few reasons. 1) it allows me to never worry about what speakers i MAY get down the road...at 250 watts pper channel each with its own power supply...i will never have to worry. 2) I get to buy the "cheaper" avr the denon x4000 (or whatever comes out next with new features) for much less than the great 4520. the only difference between the two units is the amp section whic I clearly dont need with the xpa5.

so although I discovered having separate mono's for the main speakers has zero benefit (and managed to make 400$ profit by trying them out and selling them) I will never go away from separates for the reasons above YMMV


one side effect though of sellling the xpa1's....now my rack looks bare frown.gif

+1

Not much PSA talk lately... frown.gif

Still loving my Triax.......there, that's better. biggrin.gif

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post #8121 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:36 AM
 
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I'm not really sure why people think that an amp is going to provide better sound. The amp. only provides adequate power to drive the speaker. That's why you didn't hear a difference in sound between your mono and the XPA-5. However, once you start listening to super duper loud level you might need more power to drive the speakers this is when an amplifier with more power is needed.

fully balanced and less crosstalk was my thinking...but in the end..it was in fact all a myth...debunked by me..and i got paid 400$ to do so wink.gif
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post #8122 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:48 AM
 
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I'm not really sure why people think that an amp is going to provide better sound. The amp. only provides adequate power to drive the speaker.

To this point, folks don't seem to have gotten this point yet as they seem to be living with the bias' of the 80s and the 90s. There's Home Theater and there's music. When the action sequence ramps up, if the Amp is not up to the task, you can hear the life being "SUCKED" out of the speakers as the subwoofers "LEAVE" the speakers behind. You bet amplification makes a difference.

Maybe sound quality wise the amplifier doesn't make a difference........when not being stressed. But the ability of the amplifier, to handle the load, if watching action based, Home Theater sequences, makes a "WORLD" of difference when listening close to reference.

We just upgraded our AVR to a flagship AVR and "Holy $h#&" Batman, at reference level, kr@p, you bet it makes....."ALL" the difference in the world.

(and if we're agreeing, we're agreeing)

...biggrin.gif

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post #8123 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

fully balanced and less crosstalk was my thinking...but in the end..it was in fact all a myth...debunked by me..and i got paid 400$ to do so wink.gif

Yeah, I realized that the amp doesn't provide better sound when I was comparing my monoblock Outlaw amps vs a QSC-GX3. The mono's were 200 watt at 8ohm and the QSC-GX3 was 300 wpc at 8 ohm. The sound from the speakers was the same. However, once I started cranking up the volume, I could get the QSC to clip, but not the Outlaws. So, I'm guessing the Outlaw has better parts than the QSC. I ended up selling the QSC because I couldn't stand the loud fan. biggrin.gif
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post #8124 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:30 AM
 
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gotcha...well mine was comapring the xpa-5 (250 wpc) vs the xpa-1's (500wpc) so power wasnt the problem smile.gif
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post #8125 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:30 AM
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I apologize for going out of topic. Now, I fully love my PSA-XV15. I am hoping to add a second one soon.
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post #8126 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:36 AM
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How many people actually can stand listening to movies at reference? I doubt most people do. One reason I hate going to movie theaters,there sound is ear piercing. It really doesn't make the experience better in my opinion. Don't get me going on projectors either..
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post #8127 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:41 AM
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Have any of you guys considered using height speakers?
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post #8128 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

gotcha...well mine was comapring the xpa-5 (250 wpc) vs the xpa-1's (500wpc) so power wasnt the problem smile.gif

I think the XPA-5 is 200 wpc at 8 ohm. If I had the money to buy an XPA-5 I would. I had the chance to buy one at an excellent price, but I've got 3 mono block amps. It will be a little bit cheaper to go with 2 more monoblocks.
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post #8129 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:53 AM
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How many people actually can stand listening to movies at reference? I doubt most people do. One reason I hate going to movie theaters,there sound is ear piercing. It really doesn't make the experience better in my opinion. Don't get me going on projectors either..

I agree with you. I had to go and complain about the sound being too loud when we went to watch Transformers. Apparently, someone increased the volume thinking that would sound better. I don't listen to music at reference levels unless I am by myself. The same goes with movies. However, I prefer having the power and not needing it, than needing more power and not having it wink.gif
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post #8130 of 37108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

To this point, folks don't seem to have gotten this point yet as they seem to be living with the bias' of the 80s and the 90s. There's Home Theater and there's music. When the action sequence ramps up, if the Amp is not up to the task, you can hear the life being "SUCKED" out of the speakers as the subwoofers "LEAVE" the speakers behind. You bet amplification makes a difference.

Maybe sound quality wise the amplifier doesn't make a difference........when not being stressed. But the ability of the amplifier, to handle the load, if watching action based, Home Theater sequences, makes a "WORLD" of difference when listening close to reference.

We just upgraded our AVR to a flagship AVR and "Holy $h#&" Batman, at reference level, kr@p, you bet it makes....."ALL" the difference in the world.

(and if we're agreeing, we're agreeing)

...biggrin.gif

-

You're right. Having enough power on hand to meet the demand does make a difference.

This is why I've always prefered having a beefy power amp to handle whatever speakers or content I wish at whatever level I wish. smile.gif

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