Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 394 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11791 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 08:06 AM
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I doubt that is a crossover issue entirely. The graph is scaled wrong. That small dip is 20 dB.
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post #11792 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 08:07 AM
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Audu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

I got a quick question, If your Processor/ Receiver has Audyssey XT32 is there still a need to get involved with REW? or will Audyssey XT 32 auto correct all major flaws?


Audysey cannot fix a 20 dB null. Only measuring and fixing placement can do that
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post #11793 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

I really don't think that's a null

That looks like it's the natural roll off of having an 80 x over

You are a candidate for the sub distance tweak. At your xover your sub and mains are slightly canceling each other out.

Bump up both subs by 1ft at a time and re measure. Up to 6 ft. If that doesn't work decrease the distance by 1 ft at a time. (MKe sure you write down the original distances to revert to)

Make sure you measure with REW after each change

A natural roll off of having a 80hz crossover would not dip 20db and come back up then roll back off. The graph is not scaled correctly...look at it closely, its a 20db null from 65-95hz. That is a deep valley my friend. smile.gif

I do agree that tweaking the distance setting is worth a shot since this cancellation is happening around the cross over region.
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post #11794 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
 Audysey cannot fix a 20 dB null. Only measuring and fixing placement can do that

I agree. REW can't fix it but it will let you know what you need to fix with proper placement. Without REW you may not even know what you're missing because you will never know you have a major null or void. 


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post #11795 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 09:38 AM
 
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If the mains are canceling out the sub then it will 100% be 20db and maybe more. It depends on how narrow it is.

It's one of two things (IMHO and not a null)

1) canceling of the waves
2) the x over needs to go up to 90 or 100

But that is my hunch. I am probably wrong lol
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post #11796 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

If the mains are canceling out the sub then it will 100% be 20db and maybe more. It depends on how narrow it is.

It's one of two things (IMHO and not a null)

1) canceling of the waves
2) the x over needs to go up to 90 or 100

But that is my hunch. I am probably wrong lol

That's what was happening with my setup. Adjusting the phase on the subs slightly, using a meter, may fill that null band and bring the phase cancellation down below the main's crossover point.

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post #11797 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:02 AM
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You can also try setting the subwoofer xo at 80. This may help.smile.gif
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post #11798 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:45 AM
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Ok.... first off apologize as i'm sure the forum is sick of looking at pics of my LR.... lol

anyhow-. XS15se's are in and all set-up.

as to break my wife in easy i'v choosen these spots for set-up.smile.gif one is hidden behind the chaire at the door. the other two spots she's already used too....... first thoughts. these are dinky compared to the 30's .... that said.. , the LR is now full of bass that's for sure- eek.gif

IMAG0343_zpssjrnfgqx.jpg

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IMAG0345_zps45ow13qh.jpg

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IMAG0346_zps1qidmwww.jpg
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post #11799 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:51 AM
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Good job on "hiding" your new acquisitions....she'll hardly even notice!!

So, how's it sound????
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post #11800 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Ok.... first off apologize as i'm sure the forum is sick of looking at pics of my LR.... lol

anyhow-. XS15se's are in and all set-up.

as to break my wife in easy i'v choosen these spots for set-up.smile.gif one is hidden behind the chaire at the door. the other two spots she's already used too....... first thoughts. these are dinky compared to the 30's .... that said.. , the LR is now full of bass that's for sure- eek.gif

IMAG0343_zpssjrnfgqx.jpg

IMAG0344_zps1rgxvksn.jpg

IMAG0345_zps45ow13qh.jpg

IMAG0347_zps08x4shrw.jpg

IMAG0348_zps7azqxjv8.jpg

IMAG0346_zps1qidmwww.jpg
Awesome!!
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post #11801 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:52 AM
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By changing the XO in the AVR(MCACC) will I hve to run a recalibration at all?

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post #11802 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:52 AM
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post #11803 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

By changing the XO in the AVR(MCACC) will I hve to run a recalibration at all?

Nope. But, if you change it on the sub(s) you should.
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post #11804 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

By changing the XO in the AVR(MCACC) will I hve to run a recalibration at all?

No.

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post #11805 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:54 AM
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If we do not hear from you tomorrow, would that mean she " found " them? lol.

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post #11806 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Audu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

I got a quick question, If your Processor/ Receiver has Audyssey XT32 is there still a need to get involved with REW? or will Audyssey XT 32 auto correct all major flaws?[/quote

Audysey cannot fix a 20 dB null. Only measuring and fixing placement can do that

I thought that might be the answer, just wanted confirmation. Thanks for the info.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #11807 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 11:04 AM
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Ya probably... lol


they sound like my house is gonna cave in-. remember my LR is only 20 x 17 with 8 feet ceilings. bass I love you defiently sounds better. i had some bottoming out on reference. now that could be the added subs or a better XT32 set-up. either way. nothing bottoms out. the bass seems to go so low and loud all rattling stops. if thats possible.. i now feel the bass inside my body. weird really and hard to explain. makes my body tingle. lol

i like the seperation of the 30 and 15 on the one side. seems to fill the room better. to my ear... with just the 30's my strongest bass came behind the door(corner spl meter). not so now. seems more spread out. I like.

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post #11808 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Ya probably... lol


they sound like my house is gonna cave in-. remember my LR is only 20 x 17 with 8 feet ceilings. bass I love you defiently sounds better. i had some bottoming out on reference. now that could be the added subs or a better XT32 set-up. either way. nothing bottoms out. the bass seems to go so low and loud all rattling stops. if thats possible.. i now feel the bass inside my body. weird really and hard to explain. makes my body tingle. lol

i like the seperation of the 30 and 15 on the one side. seems to fill the room better. to my ear... with just the 30's my strungest bass came behind the door(corner). not so now. seems more spread out. I like.

Congrats!!!!!! I bet they sound awesome. If / when she finds them just use the old saying " They had a special, buy one get the 2nd at half price".

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #11809 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 11:17 AM
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I have to say for anyone on the fence. I really love the texter of these subs. they can take a beating that's for sure-.smile.gif

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post #11810 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post

Congrats!!!!!! I bet they sound awesome. If / when she finds them just use the old saying " They had a special, buy one get the 2nd at half price".

it's her birthday weekend. lol

I should have asked Tom V to send along a mug. i could have served her wine in it when she gets home from work. now that would have been priceless.!!!!

Happy Birthday tongue.gif


ps.... Tom ill give your adress up in a second, lol

stay guarded as my wife's born and raised in Elizabeth NJ....biggrin.gif

she's a danty little woman that packs a punch.... trust me eek.gif
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post #11811 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

it's her birthday weekend. lol

I should have asked Tom V to send along a mug. i could have served her wine in it when she gets home from work. now that would have been priceless.!!!!

Happy Birthday tongue.gif


ps.... Tom ill give your adress up in a second, lol

stay guarded as my wife's born and raised in Elizabeth NJ....biggrin.gif

she's a danty little woman that packs a punch.... trust me eek.gif

It's the little ones you gotta watch out for. "Float like a butterfly sting like a bee"
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post #11812 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 12:02 PM
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I messed around and I think this is the best I could do. I raised the XO in the AVR to 100 then 150 and that dip at 80 didn't change a whole lot. The above graph I changed the phase on the sub to 0, AVR XO to 80, and subtracted 4 feet from the sub distance in the AVR.

The below is the graph from yesterday with no changes.
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post #11813 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 12:46 PM
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I exchanged a couple of PM last evening with Jeffery wishing him luck with the hip replacement...to bad it will be scheduled around the time we're visiting. We've talked a bunch over the years starting way back over at the Ascend forum....needless.. to say he is a great person and somebody... I would've loved to meet!

He has also encouraged me to visit PSA...I know he'll be going there sometime before his surgery and I know he waiting on those new PSA speakers....hey...TV will their be any chance of auditioning these while I'm there.

I do love my Sierra's but you just never know...especially... if they come in wood veneer finishes...something I'm stickler for and I learnt never...to say never.....biggrin.gif
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post #11814 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 01:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post



I messed around and I think this is the best I could do. I raised the XO in the AVR to 100 then 150 and that dip at 80 didn't change a whole lot. The above graph I changed the phase on the sub to 0, AVR XO to 80, and subtracted 4 feet from the sub distance in the AVR.

The below is the graph from yesterday with no changes.
Do this please:

First when displaying your graphs you have to change the y axis to read in increments of 5db

Second. Take a measure of just your subs with speakers off (unplug them if you have to but keep them "on" in your avr with xover active.

Then do te same but this time with the subs off and the mains active. Then overlay the two graphs.

Once you do all that post it up here

Thanks
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post #11815 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 01:20 PM
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How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?

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post #11816 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

I have to say for anyone on the fence. I really love the texter of these subs. they can take a beating that's for sure-.smile.gif


Something I noticed about the finish on my XS30es compared to the original version, the finish is not as rough, its texture is much smoother. I'm assuming every sub will have a slightly different texture, some rougher than others.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & S3000I subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #11817 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?
Correct.

Just turn off or unplug the mains when you want just the sub response

Just turnoff the amp on the sub for just mains response


Wait you have been measuring with cc and surrounds?!
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post #11818 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?

Re-scale the Y-axis(dB) to 45 to 105.  This will give you the 5 dB increment and proper scaling with a more normalized range.  Re-scale the X axis to 10-200 Hz.  When the scale is extremely out of the ordinary it has a big impact on how the FR appears.  The purpose of the graph is to visually represent your FR in a meaningful manner.  Having the scaling way off defeats this purpose.  It is likely that you will either have to change placement, change MLP, or add another sub to fill the null.  Don't you have an LV12R?  They likely won't play together well in the low bass, but adding it in another location will show you what another sub will do to your FR over 40 Hz.

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post #11819 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

My new subs have landed.. Thanks for the quick ship Tom.. Time to rush home set them up and hope the wife doesn't notice lol

Would you mind turning off the XS30's and jamming a bit with the dual XS15's?  I am curious about your impressions of these.

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post #11820 of 37584 Old 05-30-2014, 04:13 PM
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Is this the correct movie for the server scene?  http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Unrated-Blu-ray-Ian-Somerhalder/dp/B003Q7B7E2/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1401491492&sr=1-1&keywords=pulse

 

I have some annoying new rattles that have popped up with my recent increase in LFE output.  Need to fix them and I figured this long, bass heavy, pulsating scene would give ample time to find them.

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