Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 396 - AVS Forum

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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

mijotter's Avatar mijotter
01:02 PM Liked: 58
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I messed around and I think this is the best I could do. I raised the XO in the AVR to 100 then 150 and that dip at 80 didn't change a whole lot. The above graph I changed the phase on the sub to 0, AVR XO to 80, and subtracted 4 feet from the sub distance in the AVR.

The below is the graph from yesterday with no changes.

Billy p's Avatar Billy p
01:46 PM Liked: 231
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I exchanged a couple of PM last evening with Jeffery wishing him luck with the hip replacement...to bad it will be scheduled around the time we're visiting. We've talked a bunch over the years starting way back over at the Ascend forum....needless.. to say he is a great person and somebody... I would've loved to meet!

He has also encouraged me to visit PSA...I know he'll be going there sometime before his surgery and I know he waiting on those new PSA speakers....hey...TV will their be any chance of auditioning these while I'm there.

I do love my Sierra's but you just never know...especially... if they come in wood veneer finishes...something I'm stickler for and I learnt never...to say never.....biggrin.gif
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post



I messed around and I think this is the best I could do. I raised the XO in the AVR to 100 then 150 and that dip at 80 didn't change a whole lot. The above graph I changed the phase on the sub to 0, AVR XO to 80, and subtracted 4 feet from the sub distance in the AVR.

The below is the graph from yesterday with no changes.
Do this please:

First when displaying your graphs you have to change the y axis to read in increments of 5db

Second. Take a measure of just your subs with speakers off (unplug them if you have to but keep them "on" in your avr with xover active.

Then do te same but this time with the subs off and the mains active. Then overlay the two graphs.

Once you do all that post it up here

Thanks
mijotter's Avatar mijotter
02:20 PM Liked: 58
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How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?
Mike Butny's Avatar Mike Butny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

I have to say for anyone on the fence. I really love the texter of these subs. they can take a beating that's for sure-.smile.gif


Something I noticed about the finish on my XS30es compared to the original version, the finish is not as rough, its texture is much smoother. I'm assuming every sub will have a slightly different texture, some rougher than others.
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg
02:36 PM Liked: 802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?
Correct.

Just turn off or unplug the mains when you want just the sub response

Just turnoff the amp on the sub for just mains response


Wait you have been measuring with cc and surrounds?!
bear123's Avatar bear123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?

Re-scale the Y-axis(dB) to 45 to 105.  This will give you the 5 dB increment and proper scaling with a more normalized range.  Re-scale the X axis to 10-200 Hz.  When the scale is extremely out of the ordinary it has a big impact on how the FR appears.  The purpose of the graph is to visually represent your FR in a meaningful manner.  Having the scaling way off defeats this purpose.  It is likely that you will either have to change placement, change MLP, or add another sub to fill the null.  Don't you have an LV12R?  They likely won't play together well in the low bass, but adding it in another location will show you what another sub will do to your FR over 40 Hz.


bear123's Avatar bear123
04:46 PM Liked: 832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

My new subs have landed.. Thanks for the quick ship Tom.. Time to rush home set them up and hope the wife doesn't notice lol

Would you mind turning off the XS30's and jamming a bit with the dual XS15's?  I am curious about your impressions of these.


bear123's Avatar bear123
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Is this the correct movie for the server scene?  http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Unrated-Blu-ray-Ian-Somerhalder/dp/B003Q7B7E2/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1401491492&sr=1-1&keywords=pulse

 

I have some annoying new rattles that have popped up with my recent increase in LFE output.  Need to fix them and I figured this long, bass heavy, pulsating scene would give ample time to find them.


Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg
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Yup that's the one
mercury's Avatar mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Would you mind turning off the XS30's and jamming a bit with the dual XS15's?  I am curious about your impressions of these.

No problem..... I'll keep you posted
flydeep's Avatar flydeep
05:44 PM Liked: 41
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My 3 XS30se's came in today, they were shipped by freight compared to FedEx. They came in amazingly good condition compared to FedEx which dented one sub (had to send it back) and the replacement had dings on box. Anyway, about the new se's they are ... the right word .. amazing!

Here are some quick first impressions of the new xs30se versions:

The subs feel surprisingly heavy, much heavier than the first gen versions. Maybe the additional 20 lbs do make a non-linear difference above 100 lbs. The difference between the 1st gen and the newer se models are not just the sound levels, I felt there was significant improvement in the sound quality - it has gone up by few levels. The sound is clear and it just sounds 'tighter'. I spent little time setting them up since I intend to run them for a week or so before running detailed calibrations and measurements. One thing that surprised me was the phase alignment is quite difference between the first gen and the se versions. Also, I was seeing more nulls for the subs placed in the corner than the older version and there was a large drop near after 80 Hz as if the xover was set there (Audyssey is turned off), minor issues and need to understand them better before making more adjustments. With the first gen xs30's, I did not see such large drops.

Here are two pictures - the subs in boxes and after they have been setup.




Hopinater's Avatar Hopinater
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^ Sweet!!!! Congratulations Flydeep. It looks like you had a wonderful day!


Hopinater's Avatar Hopinater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post

My new subs have landed.. Thanks for the quick ship Tom.. Time to rush home set them up and hope the wife doesn't notice lol

Congrats Mercury. 


mercury's Avatar mercury
06:02 PM Liked: 101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post

My 3 XS30se's came in today, they were shipped by freight compared to FedEx. They came in amazingly good condition compared to FedEx which dented one sub (had to send it back) and the replacement had dings on box. Anyway, about the new se's they are ... the right word .. amazing!

Here are some quick first impressions of the new xs30se versions:

The subs feel surprisingly heavy, much heavier than the first gen versions. Maybe the additional 20 lbs do make a non-linear difference above 100 lbs. The difference between the 1st gen and the newer se models are not just the sound levels, I felt there was significant improvement in the sound quality - it has gone up by few levels. The sound is clear and it just sounds 'tighter'. I spent little time setting them up since I intend to run them for a week or so before running detailed calibrations and measurements. One thing that surprised me was the phase alignment is quite difference between the first gen and the se versions. Also, I was seeing more nulls for the subs placed in the corner than the older version and there was a large drop near after 80 Hz as if the xover was set there (Audyssey is turned off), minor issues and need to understand them better before making more adjustments. With the first gen xs30's, I did not see such large drops.

Here are two pictures - the subs in boxes and after they have been setup.





oh boy. should i update my 30's.... lol

keep us/me posted!

wife walked in the LR spend 5 min and left. she did not notice. lol
mercury's Avatar mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

Congrats Mercury. 


thanks- smile.gif
basshead81's Avatar basshead81
06:04 PM Liked: 1752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Is this the correct movie for the server scene?  http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Unrated-Blu-ray-Ian-Somerhalder/dp/B003Q7B7E2/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1401491492&sr=1-1&keywords=pulse

I have some annoying new rattles that have popped up with my recent increase in LFE output.  Need to fix them and I figured this long, bass heavy, pulsating scene would give ample time to find them.

Thats would be the one I played in the short vid I posted. smile.gif
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza
06:15 PM Liked: 366
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Hey guys, if I get a XT32 SUB EQ receiver like the Denon 4520 will this help with optimizing four subs? Do I still need REW in addition to the 4520? I'm charging up my laptop which has been sitting collecting dust and want to download REW, is this where I start, and what do I do first and how many other things need downloaded, sorry for all these questions.
THANKS BILLY FOR THE KIND WORDS MY FRIEND:)
Cheers Jeffrey

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/19-downloads-page.html
bear123's Avatar bear123
06:18 PM Liked: 832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post

My 3 XS30se's came in today, they were shipped by freight compared to FedEx. They came in amazingly good condition compared to FedEx which dented one sub (had to send it back) and the replacement had dings on box. Anyway, about the new se's they are ... the right word .. amazing!

Here are some quick first impressions of the new xs30se versions:

The subs feel surprisingly heavy, much heavier than the first gen versions. Maybe the additional 20 lbs do make a non-linear difference above 100 lbs. The difference between the 1st gen and the newer se models are not just the sound levels, I felt there was significant improvement in the sound quality - it has gone up by few levels. The sound is clear and it just sounds 'tighter'. I spent little time setting them up since I intend to run them for a week or so before running detailed calibrations and measurements. One thing that surprised me was the phase alignment is quite difference between the first gen and the se versions. Also, I was seeing more nulls for the subs placed in the corner than the older version and there was a large drop near after 80 Hz as if the xover was set there (Audyssey is turned off), minor issues and need to understand them better before making more adjustments. With the first gen xs30's, I did not see such large drops.

 

Congrats on the upgrades and the addition of the third sub.  Do you plan on putting one on the other side of the room.....near field?  Should help with smoothing a lot.


basshead81's Avatar basshead81
06:20 PM Liked: 1752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

Hey guys, if I get a XT32 SUB EQ receiver like the Denon 4520 will this help with optimizing four subs? Do I still need REW in addition to the 4520? I'm charging up my laptop which has been sitting collecting dust and want to download REW, is this where I start, and what do I do first and how many other things need downloaded, sorry for all these questions.
THANKS BILLY FOR THE KIND WORDS MY FRIEND:)
Cheers Jeffrey

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/19-downloads-page.html

You need REW regardless of the AVR or room correction software imo....XT32 Sub EQ is not a end all software for calibrating subs. Imo a much wiser investment would be a mini dsp or dirac live. I would not go with 4 subs if you are not willing to take the time to correctly set them up. Do not get me wrong I think XT32 is probably a worthy addition but I would not rely on it 100%. smile.gif
bear123's Avatar bear123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

Hey guys, if I get a XT32 SUB EQ receiver like the Denon 4520 will this help with optimizing four subs? Do I still need REW in addition to the 4520? 

 

I would say yes and yes, although the lower model X4000 gives the same Audysey and sub eq capability.  But the 4520 has more features and power.  I think the main benefit would be the dual sub outs.  Use REW to get the smoothest response prior to eq.  Try to eliminate nulls...peaks can be cut down with eq without detriment.  The automatic room correction should make getting a smooth response over many listening positions easier, and the miniDSP can be used to customize your eq, such as a house curve or what have you.


Mike Butny's Avatar Mike Butny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post

My 3 XS30se's came in today, they were shipped by freight compared to FedEx. They came in amazingly good condition compared to FedEx which dented one sub (had to send it back) and the replacement had dings on box. Anyway, about the new se's they are ... the right word .. amazing!

Here are some quick first impressions of the new xs30se versions:

The subs feel surprisingly heavy, much heavier than the first gen versions. Maybe the additional 20 lbs do make a non-linear difference above 100 lbs. The difference between the 1st gen and the newer se models are not just the sound levels, I felt there was significant improvement in the sound quality - it has gone up by few levels. The sound is clear and it just sounds 'tighter'. I spent little time setting them up since I intend to run them for a week or so before running detailed calibrations and measurements. One thing that surprised me was the phase alignment is quite difference between the first gen and the se versions. Also, I was seeing more nulls for the subs placed in the corner than the older version and there was a large drop near after 80 Hz as if the xover was set there (Audyssey is turned off), minor issues and need to understand them better before making more adjustments. With the first gen xs30's, I did not see such large drops.

Here are two pictures - the subs in boxes and after they have been setup.




Just wait until you get about 7 days on them, they are a BEAST!!!!!!!!
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza
07:23 PM Liked: 366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

Hey guys, if I get a XT32 SUB EQ receiver like the Denon 4520 will this help with optimizing four subs? Do I still need REW in addition to the 4520? I'm charging up my laptop which has been sitting collecting dust and want to download REW, is this where I start, and what do I do first and how many other things need downloaded, sorry for all these questions.
THANKS BILLY FOR THE KIND WORDS MY FRIEND:)
Cheers Jeffrey

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/19-downloads-page.html

OK OK, the reason for the 4520 is the amp section, I have several outboard amps I could sell and invest in a good receiver to drive my new (hopefully soon) PSA loudspeakers;) and make some room on my racks. Is that the download page listed above to get the REW, where do I start with the downloading as I have noticed several things listed to download, I'm just so intimidated but I know what I have to do, I just need to do it, thanks again Bear for all the peripherals to that I need to make this work (REW). Please get me started with the downloading. TIA
Cheers Jeffrey smile.gif
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza
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I have the mini DSP in my cart, what is Dirac Live?confused.gif
JT78681's Avatar JT78681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post

My 3 XS30se's came in today, they were shipped by freight compared to FedEx. They came in amazingly good condition compared to FedEx which dented one sub (had to send it back) and the replacement had dings on box. Anyway, about the new se's they are ... the right word .. amazing!

Here are some quick first impressions of the new xs30se versions:

The subs feel surprisingly heavy, much heavier than the first gen versions. Maybe the additional 20 lbs do make a non-linear difference above 100 lbs. The difference between the 1st gen and the newer se models are not just the sound levels, I felt there was significant improvement in the sound quality - it has gone up by few levels. The sound is clear and it just sounds 'tighter'. I spent little time setting them up since I intend to run them for a week or so before running detailed calibrations and measurements. One thing that surprised me was the phase alignment is quite difference between the first gen and the se versions. Also, I was seeing more nulls for the subs placed in the corner than the older version and there was a large drop near after 80 Hz as if the xover was set there (Audyssey is turned off), minor issues and need to understand them better before making more adjustments. With the first gen xs30's, I did not see such large drops.

Here are two pictures - the subs in boxes and after they have been setup.




Congrats! Are those KEF towers?
mijotter's Avatar mijotter
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Ok guys sorry about that still a noob with this software but thanks for the tips, I think I fixed it all good as far as axis goes. I could not turn off my mains in mcacc, even though i could turn every other speaker off. I did not want to unhook them because they were all setup to one and done leave it alone once everything is in place and it would just be an absolute bear to unhook and hook back up. So I turned the mains down as far as they would go which was pretty low. For the main measurement, i set the volume as they were normally and turned the sub off like you said.

I also figured out that my main towers(Infinity Beta 50's) when set to large are flat down to 30hz which I thought was pretty impressive just for curiosity sake.


I just realized that it's in 10db increments but in REW it shows 5db increments.

Here it is in 5db:

Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg
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Yup as expected by others. You have a huge null at 80hz area. You will need another sub or move them or the listening position. Remember that this could be as little as a foot or so.
mercury's Avatar mercury
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I defiantly gotta get REW but everytime i google it or search AVS i get multible MICS(usb and hdmi). my laptop has HDMI although it's a bit on the older side what exactly do i need. and do i need that mini DSP. my LR is now very close to where my dedicated HT was as far as bass but id like to no where i stand.

ps... my wife noticed the one sub this AM looked at me an said."" is there another hidden somewhere "" i laughed and she said. "" is that why my chaire is pushed out so far "" ...... all's good.!
bear123's Avatar bear123
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REW download from Hometheatershack.com

 

Umik-1 mic from miniDSP calibrated to 10 Hz

 

or

 

Umik-1 from Cross Specturm calibrated to 5 Hz

 

MiniDSP from miniDSP so you can manually eq if desired after measuring

 

Advanced 2.1 plugin from miniDSP

 

Determine where you will locate the miniDSP, where you would like to be with your laptop while measuring, and buy the following cables of appropriate length:

 

HDMI that will reach from laptop to AVR

 

USB to miniUSB cable from laptop to miniDSP

 

USB to miniUSB from laptop to Umik-1 mic if supplied 8 ft(?) cable is not long enough.

 

Cell phone charger type power supply for miniDSP once it is not hooked up to your computer(miniUSB)


Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

How do I measure just the L/R speakers? you're talking no CC or surrounds?



You really need to do 1 sub at a time (out to 100hz at least). Then both subs combined(out to 100hz). Keep the input level the same so we can see the acoustical summation of the duals.


After that, you can do the mains + subs, or the center +subs.

Which receiver are you using?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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