Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 400 - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread
Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 06:50 AM 06-04-2014
Yes you want it to be in stereo mode. That way you can individually set levels and phase in the dsp for each sub.

bear123's Avatar bear123 07:06 AM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Yes you want it to be in stereo mode. That way you can individually set levels and phase in the dsp for each sub.

Oh man, this has me very excited.  I think the red(stereo) response is a drastic improvement in the FR.  I have NO eq boosting to do for a 75 dB eq off this response(maybe a little at 80 Hz), and a much stronger bottom end with no eq!!!  I will have to see what this does to my headroom on a max output sweep.  Right now I am about 110 dB from a hair under 20 Hz up to crossover, but with a lot of compression.  Looks like this might add a lot of headroom.  I can't wait to test it out.

 

Brian, do you know, or recall, if one should use Analog or Digital Input on the system settings tab?  I am currently using analog and have not tried the other.


Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 07:18 AM 06-04-2014
I would say analog. Because the signal is coming out of a preout. The digital signal is already converted to analog
flydeep's Avatar flydeep 07:46 AM 06-04-2014
Bear - That is very interesting and I didn't know the stereo and mono options made a difference. Can you please keep us miniDSP users updated on what you find? TIA!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Ok, I know this is not the miniDSP forum, but hoping to catch someone that may know the answer to this.  I am going to be working some more on dialing in my subs next monday, and I am perplexed a bit by the stereo or mono option on the miniDSP, which is found on the system settings tab.  Up until now I have had the miniDSP in mono mode, with a single input from my AVR to input one, and subs hooked up to output 1 and 3.  With no changes other than toggling from mono to stereo, here is what it does to my response:



Obviously, stereo is providing a much superior response with a 3.2 dB increase in output at 20 Hz with no eq, eliminating the dip at 40 Hz, and improving the dip at 80.  The only thing I know to do is to check the individual output level of each sub to see if this is increasing one of the subs output, affecting the FR.  This seems like the most likely scenario.n  I have noticed that one of the subs has to be turned up pretty much 100% gain in order to level match when I calibrated in mono.

Although the response is much better in my opinion and will make eq a lot better, I wonder what the drawback, if any, will be.

bear123's Avatar bear123 08:29 AM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post

Bear - That is very interesting and I didn't know the stereo and mono options made a difference. Can you please keep us miniDSP users updated on what you find? TIA!

I sure will.  The graphs i posted were 1/12th smoothed..here they are un-smoothed which indicates an even stronger improvement:

 

 

3-3.5 dB increase below 25 Hz...again this may be due to increasing the output on one of the subs.

 

A 15 dB increase in the 40 Hz null at the peak, an average of 3-10 dB increase out to 70 Hz.

 

A 5 dB increase on the null at 80 Hz.  

 

In addition to making my eq much easier, I am anxious to see if this actually increases my max headroom.  I will put up graphs comparing current max output if I see an increase.

 

Can't wait till Monday now :).  Oh, another thing for miniDSP users, and I will be trying this as well:  miniDSP allows a maximum of 6 PEQ filters.  However, you can load this filter set onto each of the output sides individually for each sub, then measure your dual subs combined response.  You can then send the eq'd response to the eq of REW, and add up to six more PEQ filters on the input side of the miniDSP.  So you can actually do a total of 12 bands of PEQ.


Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 09:40 AM 06-04-2014
Just a tip though. The less filters you use the better
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 10:31 AM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Yes I have a dedicated Theatre room. I cannot move or add another sub because of the size of the room. The XS30se is in a custom cabinet I built for under the screen that houses all my movies, avr, bd player, as well as shelves for other things down the road.

Well, if you are unable (or unwilling) to move your sub or your MLP, I guess you're just going to have to live with that null.

If you are so hung up on the aesthetic of having your sub inside a cabinet, essentially eliminating any better placement options, all I can say is I hope you at least are happy with how it looks. cool.gif
mijotter's Avatar mijotter 11:56 AM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Well, if you are unable (or unwilling) to move your sub or your MLP, I guess you're just going to have to live with that null.

If you are so hung up on the aesthetic of having your sub inside a cabinet, essentially eliminating any better placement options, all I can say is I hope you at least are happy with how it looks. cool.gif

As I have said before I am UNABLE. Yes I am coming to the realization of living with that null because of the size and makeup of my room but I wanted to see if there were any ways I could HELP it at all.

I am not hung up on anything, if I was I wouldn't even be here looking for any and all options outside of what I know I can or can't do. So I'll repeat it one more time, it has nothing to do with aesthetics like you wish to believe and have used to make yourself sound one step higher than me, but with the inability to move the sub more than an inch in either direction. So while I do appreciate your infinite knowledge in that post it is something I have known for a while now but thank you for your concern and help smile.gif
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 11:57 AM 06-04-2014
I was after that ULF and I bought a Triax, loved it so much but wanted more, didn't want to spend $3500 to add dual Cordovan Triaxs. I also had a nasty null at 40-80Hz and tried many things and the only solution was multiple subs. I can live without the the ULF stuff, just like the OP said it can lead to some serious insanity. eek.gif I will soon be very happy with four XV15Ses and forget about the crazy ULFs, just from dual V15SEs I am extremely happy and the null is gone and FR is much smoother and will be even more so very soon.wink.gif
Thanks for the Mic adapter and stank Timo, and thank you Domingez for that excellent post.
Cheers Jeff
raynist's Avatar raynist 12:32 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

As I have said before I am UNABLE. Yes I am coming to the realization of living with that null because of the size and makeup of my room but I wanted to see if there were any ways I could HELP it at all.

I am not hung up on anything, if I was I wouldn't even be here looking for any and all options outside of what I know I can or can't do. So I'll repeat it one more time, it has nothing to do with aesthetics like you wish to believe and have used to make yourself sound one step higher than me, but with the inability to move the sub more than an inch in either direction. So while I do appreciate your infinite knowledge in that post it is something I have known for a while now but thank you for your concern and help smile.gif

Perhaps a picture of the room would help everyone understand what you are dealing with. In my mind I picture a little cabinet sitting under the screen with a bunch of open space on either side where a sub could go.
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 12:54 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Perhaps a picture of the room would help everyone understand what you are dealing with. In my mind I picture a little cabinet sitting under the screen with a bunch of open space on either side where a sub could go.

Same thing in my head....pics would be very helpful. Wonder why he hasn't posted any yet? rolleyes.gif
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 12:56 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

As I have said before I am UNABLE. Yes I am coming to the realization of living with that null because of the size and makeup of my room but I wanted to see if there were any ways I could HELP it at all.

I am not hung up on anything, if I was I wouldn't even be here looking for any and all options outside of what I know I can or can't do. So I'll repeat it one more time, it has nothing to do with aesthetics like you wish to believe and have used to make yourself sound one step higher than me, but with the inability to move the sub more than an inch in either direction. So while I do appreciate your infinite knowledge in that post it is something I have known for a while now but thank you for your concern and help smile.gif

You say you have a dedicated theater room, but you only have one place for a sub with absolutely no chance of moving it even an inch.....seems like a very strange way to set up a theater, but to each their own.
mijotter's Avatar mijotter 12:59 PM 06-04-2014


The only picture I have of the front. The left drawers are for all the movies. The AVR and BD player are in the middle. 3 open shelves to the right of that for cable box etc, and the sub on the far right. I have no where else to put any of that stuff other than below the screen when i designed and built the room. The room i not finished yet, have some more props and trim and things of that nature but should give you a pretty good idea.
mijotter's Avatar mijotter 01:01 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

You say you have a dedicated theater room, but you only have one place for a sub with absolutely no chance of moving it even an inch.....seems like a very strange way to set up a theater, but to each their own.

Hey Alan the point of that post was what exactly? I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your friendly jabs to yourself from now on sir thank you.
mercury's Avatar mercury 01:20 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post



The only picture I have of the front. The left drawers are for all the movies. The AVR and BD player are in the middle. 3 open shelves to the right of that for cable box etc, and the sub on the far right. I have no where else to put any of that stuff other than below the screen when i designed and built the room. The room i not finished yet, have some more props and trim and things of that nature but should give you a pretty good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Hey Alan the point of that post was what exactly? I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your friendly jabs to yourself from now on sir thank you.


Nice room but a tough one at that. what are the measurements ? screen size?..... any room behind the chairs... im guessing this has nothing to do with WAF.?
bear123's Avatar bear123 01:33 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post



The only picture I have of the front. The left drawers are for all the movies. The AVR and BD player are in the middle. 3 open shelves to the right of that for cable box etc, and the sub on the far right. I have no where else to put any of that stuff other than below the screen when i designed and built the room. The room i not finished yet, have some more props and trim and things of that nature but should give you a pretty good idea.

Although it looks like you have a walkway on either side of your chairs, it looks like it would be possible to "block" one of the aisles with a near field sub either to the lef or right of the seats pictured.  The other option, which is difficult to tell how much space you have or if it would work, would be to pull your front wall out 18" and place the subs, as many as you want at that point, behind the screen.


basshead81's Avatar basshead81 01:50 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post



The only picture I have of the front. The left drawers are for all the movies. The AVR and BD player are in the middle. 3 open shelves to the right of that for cable box etc, and the sub on the far right. I have no where else to put any of that stuff other than below the screen when i designed and built the room. The room i not finished yet, have some more props and trim and things of that nature but should give you a pretty good idea.

How about a XS15se right behind the chairs?
mijotter's Avatar mijotter 02:19 PM 06-04-2014

Here is a pic of the back of the room.

room is roughly 11x17, Screen is not a fixed screen but a painted wall. A 16:9 movie is 108" and a 2:35 movie is 120"

There's about 3 feet between the back wall and the back of the back row but that is used as walk space and for getting to the fridge and popcorn station which had to be built in-wall because of my limited space.

bear yeah I thought about both of those options, but bringing the wall up another 18" would put the main seating too close to the screen, it's already fairly close as is, also those transparent screens are beyond my budget. As far as blocking an aisle it would bottle neck the traffic for sure but I can see how it would work. What sub would be recommended if I went that route?
raynist's Avatar raynist 02:30 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post


Here is a pic of the back of the room.

room is roughly 11x17, Screen is not a fixed screen but a painted wall. A 16:9 movie is 108" and a 2:35 movie is 120"

There's about 3 feet between the back wall and the back of the back row but that is used as walk space and for getting to the fridge and popcorn station which had to be built in-wall because of my limited space.

Yeah, space looks tight

Looks like you could fit a sub on one if the walkways between the chair and we all although it will not look clean.
mijotter's Avatar mijotter 02:33 PM 06-04-2014
Yeah it's definitely not wide open but for the limited space I had I think I did pretty good getting everything I wanted in there and having it not be too cramped. Going for a submarine theme.

Would an in wall sub be worth anything?
JT78681's Avatar JT78681 02:39 PM 06-04-2014
You could do an IB setup, but that might be difficult if it's your first DIY project.
mercury's Avatar mercury 02:48 PM 06-04-2014
chalk that theater up to bad planning on your part. (beautiful theater by the way)

if it were my theater which it kinda was since my theater has the same dimensions as yours. lol

chairs to big. screen to big, hence your problem. if I wanted proper sound both would go. problem solved !!


1 car garage approx. same size- the screen was 80" .... although tight i had room for NHT vt-2 7.1 surround and muliple subs. i was pushing 3 citation amps.. as you can see the room was tight but proper planning gave me room for everything..

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Brian Fineberg's Avatar Brian Fineberg 03:07 PM 06-04-2014
No offense but..

Bottleneck traffic? How much are people really walking in and out of the room? Especially at the same time.
Mike Butny's Avatar Mike Butny 03:22 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post



The only picture I have of the front. The left drawers are for all the movies. The AVR and BD player are in the middle. 3 open shelves to the right of that for cable box etc, and the sub on the far right. I have no where else to put any of that stuff other than below the screen when i designed and built the room. The room i not finished yet, have some more props and trim and things of that nature but should give you a pretty good idea.

Really cool room, love the theme. I can tell just by looking at the room that you wanted to go with the largest size screen that the room would allow. If it was me this is what I would do, on the left side where you have your movie storage I would put a XS15se or XS30es and turn it sideways so the drivers are facing the side walls, this way the sub is not sticking to far out into the room. I would build custom shelving in the best possible spot on either side wall for movie storage, possible breaking into the drywall and having it recessed into the wall to save space.
morrischestnut60's Avatar morrischestnut60 03:29 PM 06-04-2014
Probably don't want folks stumbling over a sub, especially if kids frequent the space. Cautious nature.
mijotter's Avatar mijotter 03:30 PM 06-04-2014
Mercury: well I wanted the biggest screen I could get in that room and the most comfortable seating I could afford for the mains. Just different priorities. I'm not willing to give up either to fix one null. Other than that one null everything else is pretty flat and looking good. BTW love your snack stand and the Spongebob lol.

Brian: actually I have people over quite often as my entire family and most of my friends live within 15 minutes of my house.

Mike: thanks, I finally got the 2 fish tanks on the left wall stocked with fish:) And yep you are correct in your assumption. And that is a very good idea I never thought of that. I just always thought the look of movies on shelves would be tacky but now I'll have to get out the measuring tape. I wouldn't want to recess in to the drywall as the room is soundproofed. Of course this is after I told my wife that I'm done with anything major so if I get in trouble may I use you as a scapegoat:)
J1102g's Avatar J1102g 03:38 PM 06-04-2014
Dude is not willing to compromise but he is expecting a bag of magic tricks. You have room to place to subs by each end of walkway. If you don't want that then don't complain. Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

No offense but..

Bottleneck traffic? How much are people really walking in and out of the room? Especially at the same time.

Jim Farina's Avatar Jim Farina 03:40 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Since I am on the grille, I've got the German bratwurst covered.
No grill here. We do everything low and slow. Smoke bratwurst does sound good.

mijotter's Avatar mijotter 03:41 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by J1102g View Post

Dude is not willing to compromise but he is expecting a bag of magic tricks. You have room to place to subs by each end of walkway. If you don't want that then don't complain. Lol

Sigh, when was I expecting a bag of tricks? Please quote that as I am very interested in what you find. And no there is not room to place TWO subs at the walkways as I explained before. And again, who's complaining, you need to reread my last post whoever you are?

So let me get this out in open for the 3rd time for those who apparently don't understand and just like to make jabs over a computer screen. I have not ever complained about anything, I have taken measurements and found a null and was on this forum to see if there was anything I could do to help it or reduce it, as that is the point of a forum like this, to get some advice from people who may know more than you do. If you have nothing to contribute and want to just put in a jab with a not so clever "lol" at the end of your jab like a 16 year old then I am sorry. I have done nothing to provoke that, just a simple guy trying understand all of this get some advice.

ANYWHO

Jim that looks absolutely amazing!
Mike Butny's Avatar Mike Butny 04:03 PM 06-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Farina View Post

No grill here. We do everything low and slow. Smoke bratwurst does sound good.


That's my type of cooking, please tell me you use apple wood???? If so I might have to make the trip too!!!!!
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