Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 415 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #12421 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 06:34 AM
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How difficult do you guys think it would be to incorporate an XS15se right behind my couch (the MLP) and have it play nicely with my dual FV15HP's up front?

Display - LG 65EF9500
Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #12422 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
How difficult do you guys think it would be to incorporate an XS15se right behind my couch (the MLP) and have it play nicely with my dual FV15HP's up front?
It probably could be done with some serious effort but I woul not recomend it. Better off with a XV15se.
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post #12423 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by oshia86 View Post
I wish. I honestly don't think that will be in the cards when the time comes. Even if I did, I think I'm pretty much stuck at co-locating them as that will be the only spot I have to put the box. I'm really hoping the XV15se is enough in itself.

How does the XS30se compare to the XV15se as far as output? Not sure I would be able to stretch the budget that much.
How loud do you listen? The XV15se will have the advantage in the 16-30hz, the XS30se will have the advantage below 16hz and above 30hz.
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post #12424 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
It probably could be done with some serious effort but I woul not recomend it. Better off with a XV15se.

Not sure I agree Basshead. Typically mixing ported and sealed alignments is a bad idea due to cancellation in low bass (below 30 Hz), where the different roll offs and phase differences cause cancellation.

However, with the shallow roll off that the FV15HP's have down to 10 Hz, the XS15 would likely match up even better than a ported sub for this application. In fact, Dominguez(guy who updates the ULF thread), runs FV15's with his sealed 21" DIYs with great efffect and a very flat response.

So I think a near field XS15 could work well here.
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post #12425 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Not sure I agree Basshead. Typically mixing ported and sealed alignments is a bad idea due to cancellation in low bass (below 30 Hz), where the different roll offs and phase differences cause cancellation.

However, with the shallow roll off that the FV15HP's have down to 10 Hz, the XS15 would likely match up even better than a ported sub for this application. In fact, Dominguez(guy who updates the ULF thread), runs FV15's with his sealed 21" DIYs with great efffect and a very flat response.

So I think a near field XS15 could work well here.
This was my thought process too, but of course you explained it better because your more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to this stuff. I figured since the FV15HP digs so deep it wouldn't be an issue running a sealed sub nearfield just for some extra excitement.
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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
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post #12426 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Not sure I agree Basshead. Typically mixing ported and sealed alignments is a bad idea due to cancellation in low bass (below 30 Hz), where the different roll offs and phase differences cause cancellation.

However, with the shallow roll off that the FV15HP's have down to 10 Hz, the XS15 would likely match up even better than a ported sub for this application. In fact, Dominguez(guy who updates the ULF thread), runs FV15's with his sealed 21" DIYs with great efffect and a very flat response.

So I think a near field XS15 could work well here.
Yea but I think you missed the part where Dom said it took some effort to get that response. JT sent his mic back out of frustration, so I would not recomend somebody attempting this without measuring gear and a EQ device. Its not going to be a plug and play situation getting those subs to play nice together...

And I am not sure where you get the shallow roll off down to 10hz. The FV15HP in 1 port rolls of sharply around 14hz.
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post #12427 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yea but I think you missed the part where Dom said it took some effort to get that response. JT sent his mic back out of frustration, so I would not recomend somebody attempting this without measuring gear and a EQ device. Its not going to be a plug and play situation getting those subs to play nice together...
You are correct I did send it back. I realize that if I were to attempt this I would have to order another mic and probably minidsp. I was just wondering if it could work and if I could get it to sound good.

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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Klipsch RF-82 II's, RC-62 II, RB-61 II's
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post #12428 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 08:07 AM
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Maybe Tom can chime in with his opinion, but the FV15 does not roll off at 14...maybe in two port mode. one port is flat to below 12.5...port tune is 12 Hz. Roll off is similar on data-bass...the FV15 may actually be a touch shallower. Might be worth shooting Dom a PM and see what issues he had. I know my low bass output does clearly drop when my subs get out of phase, so maybe some careful phase adjustment and REW sweeps could get them dialed in?

Edit: I was looking at the max burst graph...I see the base response does show the roll off you are talking about. Things might get difficult in that area.

By the way, how do you get the images to actually show full size in your post vs just being listed as a thumbnail?

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post #12429 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 08:25 AM
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Manage attatchments, upload picture, click on the link created, copy the thumbnail url in your browser, click the little yellow picture icon in the message header and paste the img.url.
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post #12430 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 08:51 AM
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I really hope Tom gets his supplies in today, suspense is a killer.
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post #12431 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 09:12 AM
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I really hope Tom gets his supplies in today, suspense is a killer.
+1. I'm dyin' over here!
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post #12432 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 09:27 AM
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I really hope Tom gets his supplies in today, suspense is a killer.

Amplifiers are "out for delivery". But we have been unable to determine the exact timing. Even if we do not receive them until mid/late afternoon we'll stay late and get everything built for shipment tomorrow morning. If we get lucky and they show up soon(by say 1pm) we should be able to get quite a few shipped later this afternoon.

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post #12433 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Amplifiers are "out for delivery". But we have been unable to determine the exact timing. Even if we do not receive them until mid/late afternoon we'll stay late and get everything built for shipment tomorrow morning. If we get lucky and they show up soon(by say 1pm) we should be able to get quite a few shipped later this afternoon.

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Don't work too late, I want you to be fully alert when you're working on mine!
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post #12434 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
thanks for the great feed back Tom.. sorta blows my mind trying to understand it...


do I need a sub with 125 db output at 20hz to enjoy 95 db music in phons?


thanks...
If you are looking at the PHON graphs remember what they represent....6)"Decibel" is used to measure loudness of a sound". "Phon" is used to describe someone's *perception* of that loudness.

What the Phon graph tells you is how our hearing sensitivity changes with frequency(and volume).

If you are referencing the 90dB Phon trace at 1 kilohertz just following that line up and down(in frequency) and you can see how loud other frequencies would need to be to "sound" just as loud as 90dB/1000 hertz. For example, move down to say 50hz and you can see it is around 105dB now(following the 90dB/1000hertz PHON trace). What this means is....a 50hz tone needs to be 15dB louder compared to a 1000hertz tone for it to sound the same(loudness) to us.

Really, this has little to do with how much subwoofer you may or may not need for music applications..

Tom V.
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post #12435 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Amplifiers are "out for delivery". But we have been unable to determine the exact timing. Even if we do not receive them until mid/late afternoon we'll stay late and get everything built for shipment tomorrow morning. If we get lucky and they show up soon(by say 1pm) we should be able to get quite a few shipped later this afternoon.

Tom V.
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You guys are awesome! Pretty great customer service right there, and I'm all for it so long as quality isn't sacrificed.
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post #12436 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Don't work too late, I want you to be fully alert when you're working on mine!
Jim does all the DSP work and the final QC on every product we ship (how many company owner's do that?) so you are in very good hands..

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post #12437 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 01:25 PM
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Well been going back and forth for 2 weeks and finally just pulled the trigger on a XS30se. Going for 0 subs to this might help my audio a tiny bit.
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post #12438 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 01:35 PM
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^^ Congratulations! You are going to be amazed...
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post #12439 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 02:07 PM
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You guys are awesome! Pretty great customer service right there, and I'm all for it so long as quality isn't sacrificed.
Amps got here earlier this afternoon. We were able to get a good number out on fedex today. The rest are being built now and will ship tomorrow morning. Anyone who ordered on 6-18 or later will ship tomorrow morning. 6-17 or earlier, you should have tracking info..

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post #12440 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yea but I think you missed the part where Dom said it took some effort to get that response. JT sent his mic back out of frustration, so I would not recomend somebody attempting this without measuring gear and a EQ device. Its not going to be a plug and play situation getting those subs to play nice together...
+1

I would not recommend mixing sealed and ported unless you have the equipment to integrate the two. You'll need variable phase control on all subs, a measuring device like omnimic or rew, and the eq device that can eq your sealed and ported separately.

Without a manual eq, you could get lucky with audyssey, but that's a big bet imo.

Having said that, even integrating ported subs with different tunes, you'd run into similar problems.

Just get the b stock fv15hp already........
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post #12441 of 29820 Old 06-26-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Jim does all the DSP work and the final QC on every product we ship (how many company owner's do that?) so you are in very good hands..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
I can attest to that, you are definitely in good hands, now if it was Tom doing the QC, I don't know Just kidding my friend, I couldn't resist.
Cheers Jeff
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Amps got here earlier this afternoon. We were able to get a good number out on fedex today. The rest are being built now and will ship tomorrow morning. Anyone who ordered on 6-18 or later will ship tomorrow morning. 6-17 or earlier, you should have tracking info..

Tom V.
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Yes! Now to distract myself from obsessively checking my email....
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post #12443 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 10:46 AM
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Yes! Now to distract myself from obsessively checking my email....
Most/all back orders are fulfilled with tracking information sent. If anyone is still waiting please check your spam folder and let me know if we might have missed anyone.

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post #12444 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 12:36 PM
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Most/all back orders are fulfilled with tracking information sent. If anyone is still waiting please check your spam folder and let me know if we might have missed anyone.

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I got mine! Now to refresh the tracking page every 10 minutes for the next several days until it arrives.
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post #12445 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 01:15 PM
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Pictures of the XS30...less the drive units. Very well built and braced from what I can tell. Everything wrapped & boxed up....ready for their journey back to PSA. I took some pictures of the drivers...I must say not to shabby and they had some weight to them...much more imposing than web pictures would suggest. I can't wait to install the new drive units...I have strong suspicion that once completed I'll have exactly what I was looking for in a dual purpose sub. Although I view a lot of movies, I do go through phases of only listening to music... during which I felt something... however small, was lacking or missing.

This should be my last upgrade for a while. I will plan another baseball trip next summer that will include Cleveland because I want to visit the R&R hall of fame and likely go to Jacobs Field to catch a Indians game. I might swing by PSA on the way home and p/up a second XS30 next time around...








Heading to Boston on Sunday for the Red Sox vs. Cubs game Monday evening. Moving onto Baltimore for the Orioles vs. Rangers on Tuesday and lastly Pittsburgh for the Pirates vs. D-Backs next Thursday with a stop at PSA that day...woohoo...excited.
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^^ Hey Bill. I'll be extremely interested in your impressions of the updated drivers in the XS30 compared to the original. Looking forward in getting your input for both music and movies.
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post #12447 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 02:57 PM
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I got mine! Now to refresh the tracking page every 10 minutes for the next several days until it arrives.
Compulsive refreshing in progress. I checked it at least ten times before fedex even loaded it into their system....
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post #12448 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 03:36 PM
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^^ Hey Bill. I'll be extremely interested in your impressions of the updated drivers in the XS30 compared to the original. Looking forward in getting your input for both music and movies.
Will do...

Having read both reviews over at DB of the new PSA products....I am fairly confident the new SE version will improved upon the sound...just how much..I'll let you know.

Fwiw...I would not have carried out this upgrade, if I required to follow all the footnotes described on the PSA site...This trip will save me a significant amount of money making it worthwhile...IMHO...by saving all those added shipping expenses.

Cheers and thanks for all your help both on the forum and via PM's.

Bill...

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post #12449 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 05:04 PM
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[QUOTE=Billy p;25318761]Will do...

Having read both reviews over at DB of the new PSA products....I am fairly confident the new SE version will improved upon the sound...just how much..I'll let you know.

Fwiw...I would not have carried out this upgrade, if I required to follow all the footnotes described on the PSA site...This trip will save me a significant amount of money making it worthwhile...IMHO...by saving all those added shipping expenses.

Cheers and thanks for all your help both on the forum and via PM's.

Bill...[/QUOTE
Billy after being on the fence for 6 weeks and looking at the info over at DB and the reviews from upgraders, and basshead I'm pulling the trigger next week on my XS15's. Let us know what you think when up and running!
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post #12450 of 29820 Old 06-27-2014, 05:24 PM
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Congrats on the upgrades guys!! I must say after a couple months of listening, the triple XV15se makes me smile everytime I fire them up. I was previously on the fence about the steeper roll off, but I must say it is a worthwhile trade off for everything that is gained above 16hz. I use to run the original version crossed between 60-80hz, but the SE version sounds amazing crossed between 100-120hz. Now my mains have even more headroom due to the higher crossover and no localization. I do not forsee any upgrades in the future until I can build a dedicated theatre and even then I might just add a 4th XV15se and some transducers for the sub 16hz stuff. The SE power X line is definitely a home run. It's pretty obvious too because the Anti PSA group suddenly got quiet!
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