Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 419 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #12541 of 30042 Old 07-02-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
I did max out the gain from the sub at one point and it was still pretty quiet. When I ran the calibration I had it set to just beyond the 12 o'clock position however.
What material were you maxing it out with? With AVR test tones the xv15 sounded lower than I remember too with previous subs, but during the Hulk it hit like a freight train...
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post #12542 of 30042 Old 07-02-2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
What material were you maxing it out with? With AVR test tones the xv15 sounded lower than I remember too with previous subs, but during the Hulk it hit like a freight train...
I was maxing it out with the menu selection screen of Avatar
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post #12543 of 30042 Old 07-02-2014, 09:33 PM
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I was maxing it out with the menu selection screen of Avatar
Did you watch the actual movie? Menus are not very dynamic as far as I know. I'll have to pop the blu ray in right now and see

Edit: just ran through some avatar, the menu doesn't have much powerful bass even with my dual xv15's... So there must be nothing there. Try out some of the later fight scenes, could be nothing wrong with your settings at all
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post #12544 of 30042 Old 07-02-2014, 09:35 PM
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Sounds like a setup issue. Set the amp gain to 2:00, run auddyssey, the adjust the avr sub trim +3db from where audyssey set it. If that is still light on the bass then go +6 from audyssey initial setting.
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post #12545 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 05:04 AM
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Sounds like a setup issue. Set the amp gain to 2:00, run auddyssey, the adjust the avr sub trim +3db from where audyssey set it. If that is still light on the bass then go +6 from audyssey initial setting.
Yea that's what i figure too. In the calibration screens the sub reacts exactly how I would expect it to, but when it comes to actual content the sub is quiet. It's just frustrating I can place my old sub same settings and get tons of bass (just move the cable from 1 sub to the other).
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post #12546 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Yea that's what i figure too. In the calibration screens the sub reacts exactly how I would expect it to, but when it comes to actual content the sub is quiet. It's just frustrating I can place my old sub same settings and get tons of bass (just move the cable from 1 sub to the other).
I had a similar issue when I first got them in yesterday. I had the gain set at 12 o'clock. I noticed that MCACC has sub set to +4.5db. Turned up the gain on the sub to about 2 o'clock, tried again and it's much much better now.
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post #12547 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by shingles314 View Post
I had a similar issue when I first got them in yesterday. I had the gain set at 12 o'clock. I noticed that MCACC has sub set to +4.5db. Turned up the gain on the sub to about 2 o'clock, tried again and it's much much better now.
Funny enough with mine when it was running the setup it set the sub to -9db when it was at the 12 o'clock position. I switched it over to +4db. Then put the gain to the max on the sub as i was playing around. The max gain for the PSA was about the same as 9AM-10AM gain on my PL-200. Going to try to spend more time with it tonight to see what I can do, but the more ideas i get for plan of attack the better so I can spend at least part of my evening enjoying it.
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post #12548 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 08:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Funny enough with mine when it was running the setup it set the sub to -9db when it was at the 12 o'clock position. I switched it over to +4db. Then put the gain to the max on the sub as i was playing around. The max gain for the PSA was about the same as 9AM-10AM gain on my PL-200. Going to try to spend more time with it tonight to see what I can do, but the more ideas i get for plan of attack the better so I can spend at least part of my evening enjoying it.


have you ever heard of the word .. clipping? taking the avr trim from -9db to +4.5db is not a good idea.. you should really never go
above 0db on the trims..


running the gain on a sub to max is not good either..


2 o'clock should be plenty..


josh at database.com tested this sub at 3/4 gain..


hope you get it working I would ask Tom...


good luck
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post #12549 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
So I got my new XV15se home and open it up, shove the PL-200 out of the way, plug the cable into the LFE, phase set to 0, crossover to 150hz/LFE, bass to the 1 o'clock position, start everything up and..... barely any bass at all.

So I run my Audyssey setup, go through 3 seating positions, put on Avatar and barely anything.

So I check the speaker setup and run all crossovers at 80hz for my speakers, still barely anything.

So I the gain to the 3 o'clock position, begin running the sub hot at +4db and increase the volume to near reference levels. Only a distant rumble.

Put my old sub back in and it has the expected amount of bass.

Any ideas?

edit - yes the green light is lit
Just so we're all clear - where was your AVR sub trim post-Audyssey? I think it was -9, correct?

With the trim at -9 and the sub gain set to 1:00 you were getting next to nothing? (Shouldn't be producing nothing, but could sound weak at those settings. Most folks bump their trim up at least 3db from where Audyssey sets it.)

Your next step was to crank up the trim to +4db and crank the amp gain to 3:00? (Could be clipping the amp.)

Did you try any setting in between these 2? (You should try only bumping the trim 3-4db and leaving the gain at 1:00.)

And as a last resort - Are you using the LFE input? Do you have the crossover set to max on the sub?


Anyways, if you've tried all this I would have to say there's something wrong with your sub and you should contact Tom.
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post #12550 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Just so we're all clear - where was your AVR sub trim post-Audyssey? I think it was -9, correct?
It was originally at +3db (setting from my old sub) but after audyssey it went to -9db. (I originally just plugged in the sub at first with same settings as the old sub and had virtually no sound coming from it)


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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
With the trim at -9 and the sub gain set to 1:00 you were getting next to nothing? (Shouldn't be producing nothing, but could sound weak at those settings. Most folks bump their trim up at least 3db from where Audyssey sets it.)
Basically very little. Not from a "this sub isn't shaking my room" perspective but from a "these frequencies are barely present" standpoint.


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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Your next step was to crank up the trim to +4db and crank the amp gain to 3:00? (Could be clipping the amp.)

Did you try any setting in between these 2? (You should try only bumping the trim 3-4db and leaving the gain at 1:00.)
I first put the trim to +4db, still very little bass then adjusted the amp gain to 3pm after, and still had very little. It did increase of course but it was far from room shaking, chest thumping, or even keeping up with the other speakers (which are set to -6/-7db). Just want to be clear i'm not judging from a bass head standpoint but from a general it's very quiet standpoint.


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And as a last resort - Are you using the LFE input? Do you have the crossover set to max on the sub?
Yes I'm using the LFE input and I have the crossover set to max on the sub (to make sure it doesn't use the subs crossover) and my speakers were all set to 80hz just to make sure everything below was passed on.


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Anyways, if you've tried all this I would have to say there's something wrong with your sub and you should contact Tom.
I had about 2 hours to try and make it work yesterday but I'm going to try again this evening.
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post #12551 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
So I got my new XV15se home and open it up, shove the PL-200 out of the way, plug the cable into the LFE, phase set to 0, crossover to 150hz/LFE, bass to the 1 o'clock position, start everything up and..... barely any bass at all.

So I run my Audyssey setup, go through 3 seating positions, put on Avatar and barely anything.

So I check the speaker setup and run all crossovers at 80hz for my speakers, still barely anything.

So I the gain to the 3 o'clock position, begin running the sub hot at +4db and increase the volume to near reference levels. Only a distant rumble.

Put my old sub back in and it has the expected amount of bass.

Any ideas?

edit - yes the green light is lit
During the Audyssey setup, when Audyssey asks you to set your subwoofer to 74dB, did you set it to 74dB? That should have proven that the subwoofer is working (if you hear the rumble that is). If you don't hear a rumble when the AVR asks you to set the sub to 74dB, then you have a subwoofer problem.

Try setting it to 81dB - 85dB during the Audyssey setup (should be around 1:00 to 2:00 on the amp gain. The AVR will set your sub trim from -5dB to -13dB or so. If you hit the -15dB (max setting), lower the amp gain a bit and rerun Audyssey. Once the AVR sets the trim, bump it up as the other guys have said (about 3 - 5 dB from where the AVR sets it. DO NOT GO PAST 0dB on the AVR sub gain.

One question... what source content are you testing the sub with? Stereo or a movie with an LFE dedicated channel?
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post #12552 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
It was originally at +3db (setting from my old sub) but after audyssey it went to -9db. (I originally just plugged in the sub at first with same settings as the old sub and had virtually no sound coming from it)
Plugging the sub into the LFE and running it at the same LFE input levels as your old sub is very dangerous. The LFE input level could have been way too high and the amp gain could have also been set too high. This could easily overload the amp and cause some serious problems.

When you rerun Audyssey with the sub gain at 2:00, let us know what you are getting (dB wise) from the MLP. Then annotate what the AVR sets the sub gain at. This is your starting point.
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post #12553 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:34 AM
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Plugging the sub into the LFE and running it at the same LFE input levels as your old sub is very dangerous. The LFE input level could have been way too high and the amp gain could have also been set too high. This could easily overload the amp and cause some serious problems.

When you rerun Audyssey with the sub gain at 2:00, let us know what you are getting (dB wise) from the MLP. Then annotate what the AVR sets the sub gain at. This is your starting point.
When I first plugged in the sub I actually had the gain set to 0 (turned all the way down to nothing). Then I gradually increased it in order to get sound. Admittedly when I was explaining what I did I probably wasn't thorough enough explaining my process.

I ran the Audyssey with gain set at 12 (that's where it gave me -9db after setup) and I'll let you know tonight what it does when calibrated for 2.
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post #12554 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
During the Audyssey setup, when Audyssey asks you to set your subwoofer to 74dB, did you set it to 74dB? That should have proven that the subwoofer is working (if you hear the rumble that is). If you don't hear a rumble when the AVR asks you to set the sub to 74dB, then you have a subwoofer problem.

Try setting it to 81dB - 85dB during the Audyssey setup (should be around 1:00 to 2:00 on the amp gain. The AVR will set your sub trim from -5dB to -13dB or so. If you hit the -15dB (max setting), lower the amp gain a bit and rerun Audyssey. Once the AVR sets the trim, bump it up as the other guys have said (about 3 - 5 dB from where the AVR sets it. DO NOT GO PAST 0dB on the AVR sub gain.

One question... what source content are you testing the sub with? Stereo or a movie with an LFE dedicated channel?
Funny enough my Audyssey doesn't ask me to set my subwoofer to 74db (running an Onkyo 707), i'm not sure it will let me read the dB rating live or not but i'll double check with the manual. I might have to buy a SPL Meter.

For source material I used Avatar on blu-ray, a rage against the machine cd, and just an HD movie channel on television.

I want to emphasis how quiet the sub is though. We're talking can have a casual conversation sitting next to it with only a gentle rumble. Maybe as loud as sitting next to a honda civic at idle? not even?
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post #12555 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Plugging the sub into the LFE and running it at the same LFE input levels as your old sub is very dangerous. The LFE input level could have been way too high and the amp gain could have also been set too high. This could easily overload the amp and cause some serious problems.

When you rerun Audyssey with the sub gain at 2:00, let us know what you are getting (dB wise) from the MLP. Then annotate what the AVR sets the sub gain at. This is your starting point.

Don't forget to check/ change the cross-over setting for each individual speaker after running Audyssey.
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post #12556 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
When I first plugged in the sub I actually had the gain set to 0 (turned all the way down to nothing). Then I gradually increased it in order to get sound. Admittedly when I was explaining what I did I probably wasn't thorough enough explaining my process.

I ran the Audyssey with gain set at 12 (that's where it gave me -9db after setup) and I'll let you know tonight what it does when calibrated for 2.
If it gave you -9 at 12:00 you're probably gonna be outa range at 2:00 (-12db). You probably already know this, but if you do get -12db, you need to turn the gain down until you get back into range.

It's very strange that at 12:00 you're getting -9db...that would make one assume that the sub is providing plenty of output at 12:00.

Something is amiss for sure, but I can't tell you what it is! Especially since your old sub is providing plenty of bass. It's a mystery.
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post #12557 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:54 AM
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Don't forget to check/ change the cross-over setting for each individual speaker after running Audyssey.
That was the first thing I did after it didn't work with the audyssey calibration. All speakers are set for 80hz crossover now.
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post #12558 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 09:56 AM
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If it gave you -9 at 12:00 you're probably gonna be outa range at 2:00 (-12db). You probably already know this, but if you do get -12db, you need to turn the gain down until you get back into range.

It's very strange that at 12:00 you're getting -9db...that would make one assume that the sub is providing plenty of output at 12:00.

Something is amiss for sure, but I can't tell you what it is! Especially since your old sub is providing plenty of bass. It's a mystery.
What further confuses me is that while it is doing calibration it doesn't sound abnormally quiet. Calibration is never loud mind you, but I find it especially annoying that my old sub can be dropped in and work perfectly.


Edit - I guess my next plan of attack will be to do a factory reset on the receiver (clear out all settings!), set the sub gain to 1 o'clock position, run audyssey again and go from there.

Last edited by Magibeg; 07-03-2014 at 10:07 AM.
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post #12559 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:10 AM
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What further confuses me is that while it is doing calibration it doesn't sound abnormally quiet. Calibration is never loud mind you, but I find it especially annoying that my old sub can be dropped in and work perfectly.
Sorry if you answered this already, but what version of Audyssey are you using? On XT32 the first step is setting the sub to 75db, you should hear a little rumble, I usually set mine to 81-84db and then Audyssey gives me a final trim level between -8 to -6 then I bump it up 3db. Are you hearing your sub rumble on that first initial step?
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post #12560 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:20 AM
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Sorry if you answered this already, but what version of Audyssey are you using? On XT32 the first step is setting the sub to 75db, you should hear a little rumble, I usually set mine to 81-84db and then Audyssey gives me a final trim level between -8 to -6 then I bump it up 3db. Are you hearing your sub rumble on that first initial step?
No need to be sorry, thank you for your help.

I'm running Audyssey MultiEQ. The little brother of the XT32. The calibration noise is more of a whaup whaup whaup sort of sound for all the speakers instead of a rumble. So during the calibration the sub plays the "whaup" sound but it's definitely not something i'd consider to be low or rumbly.
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post #12561 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:30 AM
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Funny enough my Audyssey doesn't ask me to set my subwoofer to 74db (running an Onkyo 707), i'm not sure it will let me read the dB rating live or not but i'll double check with the manual. I might have to buy a SPL Meter.

For source material I used Avatar on blu-ray, a rage against the machine cd, and just an HD movie channel on television.

I want to emphasis how quiet the sub is though. We're talking can have a casual conversation sitting next to it with only a gentle rumble. Maybe as loud as sitting next to a honda civic at idle? not even?
A new Honda Civic... right! LMAO

With all of the experience in this forum, they'll get you up and running.

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No need to be sorry, thank you for your help.

I'm running Audyssey MultiEQ. The little brother of the XT32. The calibration noise is more of a whaup whaup whaup sort of sound for all the speakers instead of a rumble. So during the calibration the sub plays the "whaup" sound but it's definitely not something i'd consider to be low or rumbly.
This may be our confusing point. XT32 allows you to adjust your subwoofer gain manually while playing a subwoofer rumble tone. I'm at a loss with the other test tone.
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post #12562 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:38 AM
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After the Audyssey calibration, is the subwoofer still set to "On" in the settings?

This is from your manual:

"Using a Powered Subwoofer

If you’re using a powered subwoofer and it outputs very low-frequency sound at a low volume level, it may not be detected by Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction and Speaker Setup. If the “Subwoofer” appears on the “Review SP Configuration” screen as “No”, increase the subwoofer’s volume to the half-way point, set it to its highest crossover frequency, and then try running Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction and Speaker Setup again. Note that if the volume is set too high and the sound distorts, detection issues may occur, so use an appropriate volume level. If the subwoofer has a low-pass filter switch, set it to Off or Direct. Refer to your subwoofer’s instruction manual for details".
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post #12563 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
After the Audyssey calibration, is the subwoofer still set to "On" in the settings?

This is from your manual:

"Using a Powered Subwoofer

If you’re using a powered subwoofer and it outputs very low-frequency sound at a low volume level, it may not be detected by Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction and Speaker Setup. If the “Subwoofer” appears on the “Review SP Configuration” screen as “No”, increase the subwoofer’s volume to the half-way point, set it to its highest crossover frequency, and then try running Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction and Speaker Setup again. Note that if the volume is set too high and the sound distorts, detection issues may occur, so use an appropriate volume level. If the subwoofer has a low-pass filter switch, set it to Off or Direct. Refer to your subwoofer’s instruction manual for details".
You're awesome for looking through the manual!

The subwoofer is set to "YES". Another easy way for me to check is on the receivers screen itself there is a little box that says "SW" which is lit also indicating that the sub is in fact active during use. See page 10 of the manual if you're still looking.
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post #12564 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:54 AM
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Just a thought, may be grasping at straws at this point....but have you tried a different cable?
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post #12565 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Just a thought, may be grasping at straws at this point....but have you tried a different cable?
I actually haven't. I'll go buy one (I need another one anyway because I'm moving in about a week). Wouldn't be the first time I've been thwarted by a cable. I could also consider a Y split to plug into both inputs, i doubt it would help but i really want to cover all bases.

Last edited by Magibeg; 07-03-2014 at 11:04 AM.
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post #12566 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 11:30 AM
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So, after stacking my 4 XS15s up front the other day (sounds awesome BTW!) I noticed something strange that has cropped up before;

I bought my first 2 (came with bases) about a year ago and the second pair (no bases) about 4 months later. Even when stacked right on top of one another, I have to flip the phase on either the newer pair or the older pair to get them to not cancel out each other.

Seems to me that one pair is wired out of phase. Would this be your conclusion as well?

Not really a big deal, just seems strange.
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post #12567 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
What further confuses me is that while it is doing calibration it doesn't sound abnormally quiet. Calibration is never loud mind you, but I find it especially annoying that my old sub can be dropped in and work perfectly.


Edit - I guess my next plan of attack will be to do a factory reset on the receiver (clear out all settings!), set the sub gain to 1 o'clock position, run audyssey again and go from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Funny enough my Audyssey doesn't ask me to set my subwoofer to 74db (running an Onkyo 707), i'm not sure it will let me read the dB rating live or not but i'll double check with the manual. I might have to buy a SPL Meter.

For source material I used Avatar on blu-ray, a rage against the machine cd, and just an HD movie channel on television.

I want to emphasis how quiet the sub is though. We're talking can have a casual conversation sitting next to it with only a gentle rumble. Maybe as loud as sitting next to a honda civic at idle? not even?
Since everyone else seems to be jumping on the setup, I'll offer some slightly different theories:

1) the source material you are using might not particularly bass heavy or dynamic. Your old sub might sound "louder" with these materials due to compression or distortion, and now that it's clean, you perceive less power. What are your listening levels? Might also try something a little more dynamic, such as Incredible Hulk, transformers, batman trilogy etc.

2) I noticed my new xv15's were a little underwhelming at first as well, so I left the test tones on for a few minutes at moderate volumes to let things stretch out a bit. First thing I demoed was Incredible Hulk, then some other things. By the time I got back to Incredible Hulk it was a totally different experience.

If everything sounds normal during calibration then underwhelming during listening of your favorite material, I doubt it's a setup or sub issue, but more about "expectations" in what you think the bass should be vs what is actually is.

I am by no means an expert, so feel free to smack me around if I am off base here.
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post #12568 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Since everyone else seems to be jumping on the setup, I'll offer some slightly different theories:

1) the source material you are using might not particularly bass heavy or dynamic. Your old sub might sound "louder" with these materials due to compression or distortion, and now that it's clean, you perceive less power. What are your listening levels? Might also try something a little more dynamic, such as Incredible Hulk, transformers, batman trilogy etc.

2) I noticed my new xv15's were a little underwhelming at first as well, so I left the test tones on for a few minutes at moderate volumes to let things stretch out a bit. First thing I demoed was Incredible Hulk, then some other things. By the time I got back to Incredible Hulk it was a totally different experience.

If everything sounds normal during calibration then underwhelming during listening of your favorite material, I doubt it's a setup or sub issue, but more about "expectations" in what you think the bass should be vs what is actually is.

I am by no means an expert, so feel free to smack me around if I am off base here.
Haha I would never smack around someone try to help me. I used a couple different sources (blu-ray, TV, music CD). I admit I haven't let the sub run more than 30 minutes continuous at this point in time but when I say quiet I mean nearly not there at all as opposed to just not reaching bass head levels.
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post #12569 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazz063 View Post
This is the front of my room (loungeroom not dedicated HT) with the two XS30's.



Having the second sub has really helped room response.
How do you like your mini split?

I wired one for my theater, however I won't be able to install it till last. Do you notice any noise that affects your audio? I really have no choice but to add a mini split as it will be very hard to run an AC line to my room. I actually like the idea of the unit as I can use it when needed. Also, how does the heat pump work? I have seen units on you tube that put out heat in -12 below 0.
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post #12570 of 30042 Old 07-03-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
So, after stacking my 4 XS15s up front the other day (sounds awesome BTW!) I noticed something strange that has cropped up before;

I bought my first 2 (came with bases) about a year ago and the second pair (no bases) about 4 months later. Even when stacked right on top of one another, I have to flip the phase on either the newer pair or the older pair to get them to not cancel out each other.

Seems to me that one pair is wired out of phase. Would this be your conclusion as well?

Not really a big deal, just seems strange.
If they are stacked and the phase is 180 out, then yes, they are wired out of phase. Pop off the amp and check the wires.

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