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post #12571 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants
Just got my dual xv15se's! Setup and calibrated, running through some of my reference blu rays.

I'm getting punched in the face with bass just as I hoped, but the shocking part is how clean they sound compared to my previous subs. Did not expect that part
Congrats on the new subs!

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... Also, you can change you name now....to FattyMcBassPants.
I second the motion.


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post #12572 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 06:35 PM
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Awesome and congrats!! What subs are you upgrading from? Also, you can change you name now....to FattyMcBassPants.
I started with a single outlaw lfm-1-ex two years ago. Tried out some dual svs pb12-nsd's on sale earlier this year but just didn't feel it was a solid upgrade. Was planning to just get a second outlaw during their next sale....

Then reading about you guys ranting a raving about these PSA subs, figured it would be worth a shot. So far I have to say...... I'm impressed with literally everything about these XV15se's!
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post #12573 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
I started with a single outlaw lfm-1-ex two years ago. Tried out some dual svs pb12-nsd's on sale earlier this year but just didn't feel it was a solid upgrade. Was planning to just get a second outlaw during their next sale....

Then reading about you guys ranting a raving about these PSA subs, figured it would be worth a shot. So far I have to say...... I'm impressed with literally everything about these XV15se's!

Considering how solid the LFM1-EX is, that is solid praise for the XV15. Glad they have met your expectations.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

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post #12574 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 06:54 PM
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....Also, you can change you name now....to FattyMcBassPants.

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Congrats on the new subs!


I second the motion.
I think Butterpants might still be a more accurate descriptor of me, but if these new subs keep distracting me from eating then I'll consider

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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Considering how solid the LFM1-EX is, that is solid praise for the XV15. Glad they have met your expectations.
The lfm1-ex is a great sub, and is currently pulling bedroom duty. I will have to bring it out and do some 1 v 1 testing with a single xv15se one of these days. The EX pounded the pb12-nsd IMO so no comparison necessary on that front
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post #12575 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 06:54 PM
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So I got my new XV15se home and open it up, shove the PL-200 out of the way, plug the cable into the LFE, phase set to 0, crossover to 150hz/LFE, bass to the 1 o'clock position, start everything up and..... barely any bass at all.

So I run my Audyssey setup, go through 3 seating positions, put on Avatar and barely anything.

So I check the speaker setup and run all crossovers at 80hz for my speakers, still barely anything.

So I the gain to the 3 o'clock position, begin running the sub hot at +4db and increase the volume to near reference levels. Only a distant rumble.

Put my old sub back in and it has the expected amount of bass.

Any ideas?

edit - yes the green light is lit
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post #12576 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
So I got my new XV15se home and open it up, shove the PL-200 out of the way, plug the cable into the LFE, phase set to 0, crossover to 150hz/LFE, bass to the 1 o'clock position, start everything up and..... barely any bass at all.

So I run my Audyssey setup, go through 3 seating positions, put on Avatar and barely anything.

So I check the speaker setup and run all crossovers at 80hz for my speakers, still barely anything.

So I the gain to the 3 o'clock position, begin running the sub hot at +4db and increase the volume to near reference levels. Only a distant rumble.

Put my old sub back in and it has the expected amount of bass.

Any ideas?

edit - yes the green light is lit
Mine was like that at first too, then I looked and the AVR gain was registering +9.... So I turned up the sub gain and recal'd a couple times until I got to that sweet spot of 0db +/-3db on AVR gain. Maybe try that?
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post #12577 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Mine was like that at first too, then I looked and the AVR gain was registering +9.... So I turned up the sub gain and recal'd a couple times until I got to that sweet spot of 0db +/-3db on AVR gain. Maybe try that?
Sounds like a good start, I just want to accumulate some ideas before I tackle it again tomorrow. What do you have your sub set to?
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post #12578 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Sounds like a good start, I just want to accumulate some ideas before I tackle it again tomorrow. What do you have your sub set to?
Both of mine are set to 2pm position or so. When I was messing with then it seemed like I gained a TON of power going from 10a-2p. Kinda surprising actually, never had to set gain this high before.
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post #12579 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Both of mine are set to 2pm position or so. When I was messing with then it seemed like I gained a TON of power going from 10a-2p. Kinda surprising actually, never had to set gain this high before.
I did max out the gain from the sub at one point and it was still pretty quiet. When I ran the calibration I had it set to just beyond the 12 o'clock position however.
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post #12580 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
I did max out the gain from the sub at one point and it was still pretty quiet. When I ran the calibration I had it set to just beyond the 12 o'clock position however.
What material were you maxing it out with? With AVR test tones the xv15 sounded lower than I remember too with previous subs, but during the Hulk it hit like a freight train...
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post #12581 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
What material were you maxing it out with? With AVR test tones the xv15 sounded lower than I remember too with previous subs, but during the Hulk it hit like a freight train...
I was maxing it out with the menu selection screen of Avatar
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post #12582 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
I was maxing it out with the menu selection screen of Avatar
Did you watch the actual movie? Menus are not very dynamic as far as I know. I'll have to pop the blu ray in right now and see

Edit: just ran through some avatar, the menu doesn't have much powerful bass even with my dual xv15's... So there must be nothing there. Try out some of the later fight scenes, could be nothing wrong with your settings at all
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Last edited by FattyMcButterPants; 07-02-2014 at 08:45 PM.
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post #12583 of 13807 Old 07-02-2014, 08:35 PM
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Sounds like a setup issue. Set the amp gain to 2:00, run auddyssey, the adjust the avr sub trim +3db from where audyssey set it. If that is still light on the bass then go +6 from audyssey initial setting.
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post #12584 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 04:04 AM
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Sounds like a setup issue. Set the amp gain to 2:00, run auddyssey, the adjust the avr sub trim +3db from where audyssey set it. If that is still light on the bass then go +6 from audyssey initial setting.
Yea that's what i figure too. In the calibration screens the sub reacts exactly how I would expect it to, but when it comes to actual content the sub is quiet. It's just frustrating I can place my old sub same settings and get tons of bass (just move the cable from 1 sub to the other).
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post #12585 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Yea that's what i figure too. In the calibration screens the sub reacts exactly how I would expect it to, but when it comes to actual content the sub is quiet. It's just frustrating I can place my old sub same settings and get tons of bass (just move the cable from 1 sub to the other).
I had a similar issue when I first got them in yesterday. I had the gain set at 12 o'clock. I noticed that MCACC has sub set to +4.5db. Turned up the gain on the sub to about 2 o'clock, tried again and it's much much better now.
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post #12586 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 07:16 AM
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I had a similar issue when I first got them in yesterday. I had the gain set at 12 o'clock. I noticed that MCACC has sub set to +4.5db. Turned up the gain on the sub to about 2 o'clock, tried again and it's much much better now.
Funny enough with mine when it was running the setup it set the sub to -9db when it was at the 12 o'clock position. I switched it over to +4db. Then put the gain to the max on the sub as i was playing around. The max gain for the PSA was about the same as 9AM-10AM gain on my PL-200. Going to try to spend more time with it tonight to see what I can do, but the more ideas i get for plan of attack the better so I can spend at least part of my evening enjoying it.
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post #12587 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 07:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Funny enough with mine when it was running the setup it set the sub to -9db when it was at the 12 o'clock position. I switched it over to +4db. Then put the gain to the max on the sub as i was playing around. The max gain for the PSA was about the same as 9AM-10AM gain on my PL-200. Going to try to spend more time with it tonight to see what I can do, but the more ideas i get for plan of attack the better so I can spend at least part of my evening enjoying it.


have you ever heard of the word .. clipping? taking the avr trim from -9db to +4.5db is not a good idea.. you should really never go
above 0db on the trims..


running the gain on a sub to max is not good either..


2 o'clock should be plenty..


josh at database.com tested this sub at 3/4 gain..


hope you get it working I would ask Tom...


good luck
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post #12588 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
So I got my new XV15se home and open it up, shove the PL-200 out of the way, plug the cable into the LFE, phase set to 0, crossover to 150hz/LFE, bass to the 1 o'clock position, start everything up and..... barely any bass at all.

So I run my Audyssey setup, go through 3 seating positions, put on Avatar and barely anything.

So I check the speaker setup and run all crossovers at 80hz for my speakers, still barely anything.

So I the gain to the 3 o'clock position, begin running the sub hot at +4db and increase the volume to near reference levels. Only a distant rumble.

Put my old sub back in and it has the expected amount of bass.

Any ideas?

edit - yes the green light is lit
Just so we're all clear - where was your AVR sub trim post-Audyssey? I think it was -9, correct?

With the trim at -9 and the sub gain set to 1:00 you were getting next to nothing? (Shouldn't be producing nothing, but could sound weak at those settings. Most folks bump their trim up at least 3db from where Audyssey sets it.)

Your next step was to crank up the trim to +4db and crank the amp gain to 3:00? (Could be clipping the amp.)

Did you try any setting in between these 2? (You should try only bumping the trim 3-4db and leaving the gain at 1:00.)

And as a last resort - Are you using the LFE input? Do you have the crossover set to max on the sub?


Anyways, if you've tried all this I would have to say there's something wrong with your sub and you should contact Tom.
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post #12589 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:11 AM
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Just so we're all clear - where was your AVR sub trim post-Audyssey? I think it was -9, correct?
It was originally at +3db (setting from my old sub) but after audyssey it went to -9db. (I originally just plugged in the sub at first with same settings as the old sub and had virtually no sound coming from it)


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With the trim at -9 and the sub gain set to 1:00 you were getting next to nothing? (Shouldn't be producing nothing, but could sound weak at those settings. Most folks bump their trim up at least 3db from where Audyssey sets it.)
Basically very little. Not from a "this sub isn't shaking my room" perspective but from a "these frequencies are barely present" standpoint.


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Your next step was to crank up the trim to +4db and crank the amp gain to 3:00? (Could be clipping the amp.)

Did you try any setting in between these 2? (You should try only bumping the trim 3-4db and leaving the gain at 1:00.)
I first put the trim to +4db, still very little bass then adjusted the amp gain to 3pm after, and still had very little. It did increase of course but it was far from room shaking, chest thumping, or even keeping up with the other speakers (which are set to -6/-7db). Just want to be clear i'm not judging from a bass head standpoint but from a general it's very quiet standpoint.


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And as a last resort - Are you using the LFE input? Do you have the crossover set to max on the sub?
Yes I'm using the LFE input and I have the crossover set to max on the sub (to make sure it doesn't use the subs crossover) and my speakers were all set to 80hz just to make sure everything below was passed on.


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Anyways, if you've tried all this I would have to say there's something wrong with your sub and you should contact Tom.
I had about 2 hours to try and make it work yesterday but I'm going to try again this evening.
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post #12590 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
So I got my new XV15se home and open it up, shove the PL-200 out of the way, plug the cable into the LFE, phase set to 0, crossover to 150hz/LFE, bass to the 1 o'clock position, start everything up and..... barely any bass at all.

So I run my Audyssey setup, go through 3 seating positions, put on Avatar and barely anything.

So I check the speaker setup and run all crossovers at 80hz for my speakers, still barely anything.

So I the gain to the 3 o'clock position, begin running the sub hot at +4db and increase the volume to near reference levels. Only a distant rumble.

Put my old sub back in and it has the expected amount of bass.

Any ideas?

edit - yes the green light is lit
During the Audyssey setup, when Audyssey asks you to set your subwoofer to 74dB, did you set it to 74dB? That should have proven that the subwoofer is working (if you hear the rumble that is). If you don't hear a rumble when the AVR asks you to set the sub to 74dB, then you have a subwoofer problem.

Try setting it to 81dB - 85dB during the Audyssey setup (should be around 1:00 to 2:00 on the amp gain. The AVR will set your sub trim from -5dB to -13dB or so. If you hit the -15dB (max setting), lower the amp gain a bit and rerun Audyssey. Once the AVR sets the trim, bump it up as the other guys have said (about 3 - 5 dB from where the AVR sets it. DO NOT GO PAST 0dB on the AVR sub gain.

One question... what source content are you testing the sub with? Stereo or a movie with an LFE dedicated channel?
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post #12591 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:27 AM
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It was originally at +3db (setting from my old sub) but after audyssey it went to -9db. (I originally just plugged in the sub at first with same settings as the old sub and had virtually no sound coming from it)
Plugging the sub into the LFE and running it at the same LFE input levels as your old sub is very dangerous. The LFE input level could have been way too high and the amp gain could have also been set too high. This could easily overload the amp and cause some serious problems.

When you rerun Audyssey with the sub gain at 2:00, let us know what you are getting (dB wise) from the MLP. Then annotate what the AVR sets the sub gain at. This is your starting point.
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post #12592 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:34 AM
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Plugging the sub into the LFE and running it at the same LFE input levels as your old sub is very dangerous. The LFE input level could have been way too high and the amp gain could have also been set too high. This could easily overload the amp and cause some serious problems.

When you rerun Audyssey with the sub gain at 2:00, let us know what you are getting (dB wise) from the MLP. Then annotate what the AVR sets the sub gain at. This is your starting point.
When I first plugged in the sub I actually had the gain set to 0 (turned all the way down to nothing). Then I gradually increased it in order to get sound. Admittedly when I was explaining what I did I probably wasn't thorough enough explaining my process.

I ran the Audyssey with gain set at 12 (that's where it gave me -9db after setup) and I'll let you know tonight what it does when calibrated for 2.
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post #12593 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
During the Audyssey setup, when Audyssey asks you to set your subwoofer to 74dB, did you set it to 74dB? That should have proven that the subwoofer is working (if you hear the rumble that is). If you don't hear a rumble when the AVR asks you to set the sub to 74dB, then you have a subwoofer problem.

Try setting it to 81dB - 85dB during the Audyssey setup (should be around 1:00 to 2:00 on the amp gain. The AVR will set your sub trim from -5dB to -13dB or so. If you hit the -15dB (max setting), lower the amp gain a bit and rerun Audyssey. Once the AVR sets the trim, bump it up as the other guys have said (about 3 - 5 dB from where the AVR sets it. DO NOT GO PAST 0dB on the AVR sub gain.

One question... what source content are you testing the sub with? Stereo or a movie with an LFE dedicated channel?
Funny enough my Audyssey doesn't ask me to set my subwoofer to 74db (running an Onkyo 707), i'm not sure it will let me read the dB rating live or not but i'll double check with the manual. I might have to buy a SPL Meter.

For source material I used Avatar on blu-ray, a rage against the machine cd, and just an HD movie channel on television.

I want to emphasis how quiet the sub is though. We're talking can have a casual conversation sitting next to it with only a gentle rumble. Maybe as loud as sitting next to a honda civic at idle? not even?
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post #12594 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:42 AM
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Plugging the sub into the LFE and running it at the same LFE input levels as your old sub is very dangerous. The LFE input level could have been way too high and the amp gain could have also been set too high. This could easily overload the amp and cause some serious problems.

When you rerun Audyssey with the sub gain at 2:00, let us know what you are getting (dB wise) from the MLP. Then annotate what the AVR sets the sub gain at. This is your starting point.

Don't forget to check/ change the cross-over setting for each individual speaker after running Audyssey.
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post #12595 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:53 AM
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When I first plugged in the sub I actually had the gain set to 0 (turned all the way down to nothing). Then I gradually increased it in order to get sound. Admittedly when I was explaining what I did I probably wasn't thorough enough explaining my process.

I ran the Audyssey with gain set at 12 (that's where it gave me -9db after setup) and I'll let you know tonight what it does when calibrated for 2.
If it gave you -9 at 12:00 you're probably gonna be outa range at 2:00 (-12db). You probably already know this, but if you do get -12db, you need to turn the gain down until you get back into range.

It's very strange that at 12:00 you're getting -9db...that would make one assume that the sub is providing plenty of output at 12:00.

Something is amiss for sure, but I can't tell you what it is! Especially since your old sub is providing plenty of bass. It's a mystery.
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post #12596 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:54 AM
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Don't forget to check/ change the cross-over setting for each individual speaker after running Audyssey.
That was the first thing I did after it didn't work with the audyssey calibration. All speakers are set for 80hz crossover now.
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post #12597 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
If it gave you -9 at 12:00 you're probably gonna be outa range at 2:00 (-12db). You probably already know this, but if you do get -12db, you need to turn the gain down until you get back into range.

It's very strange that at 12:00 you're getting -9db...that would make one assume that the sub is providing plenty of output at 12:00.

Something is amiss for sure, but I can't tell you what it is! Especially since your old sub is providing plenty of bass. It's a mystery.
What further confuses me is that while it is doing calibration it doesn't sound abnormally quiet. Calibration is never loud mind you, but I find it especially annoying that my old sub can be dropped in and work perfectly.


Edit - I guess my next plan of attack will be to do a factory reset on the receiver (clear out all settings!), set the sub gain to 1 o'clock position, run audyssey again and go from there.

Last edited by Magibeg; 07-03-2014 at 09:07 AM.
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post #12598 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 09:10 AM
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What further confuses me is that while it is doing calibration it doesn't sound abnormally quiet. Calibration is never loud mind you, but I find it especially annoying that my old sub can be dropped in and work perfectly.
Sorry if you answered this already, but what version of Audyssey are you using? On XT32 the first step is setting the sub to 75db, you should hear a little rumble, I usually set mine to 81-84db and then Audyssey gives me a final trim level between -8 to -6 then I bump it up 3db. Are you hearing your sub rumble on that first initial step?
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post #12599 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Sorry if you answered this already, but what version of Audyssey are you using? On XT32 the first step is setting the sub to 75db, you should hear a little rumble, I usually set mine to 81-84db and then Audyssey gives me a final trim level between -8 to -6 then I bump it up 3db. Are you hearing your sub rumble on that first initial step?
No need to be sorry, thank you for your help.

I'm running Audyssey MultiEQ. The little brother of the XT32. The calibration noise is more of a whaup whaup whaup sort of sound for all the speakers instead of a rumble. So during the calibration the sub plays the "whaup" sound but it's definitely not something i'd consider to be low or rumbly.
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post #12600 of 13807 Old 07-03-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
Funny enough my Audyssey doesn't ask me to set my subwoofer to 74db (running an Onkyo 707), i'm not sure it will let me read the dB rating live or not but i'll double check with the manual. I might have to buy a SPL Meter.

For source material I used Avatar on blu-ray, a rage against the machine cd, and just an HD movie channel on television.

I want to emphasis how quiet the sub is though. We're talking can have a casual conversation sitting next to it with only a gentle rumble. Maybe as loud as sitting next to a honda civic at idle? not even?
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Originally Posted by Magibeg View Post
No need to be sorry, thank you for your help.

I'm running Audyssey MultiEQ. The little brother of the XT32. The calibration noise is more of a whaup whaup whaup sort of sound for all the speakers instead of a rumble. So during the calibration the sub plays the "whaup" sound but it's definitely not something i'd consider to be low or rumbly.
This may be our confusing point. XT32 allows you to adjust your subwoofer gain manually while playing a subwoofer rumble tone. I'm at a loss with the other test tone.
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