Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 423 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 07-07-2014, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sarlindescent View Post
Should the XS30se provide much room shake in a 2000 cu ft room? It sounds amazing during music, but I can barely get a rumble in the couch for movies. Setup is in a basement, carpet over concrete foundation.

Honestly, from looking at the sub, I can barely tell they are moving.
1)Which receiver and speakers are you using in the system?

2)Please be sure that all speakers are set to small with the crossover at 80hz for now

3)Where is the gain on the sub? We have found that gain settings in the 1 O:clock to 2 O:clock position seem to work best.

4)have you calibrated the system? Either with an auto setup routine like Audyssey or manually with a SPL meter?

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Old 07-07-2014, 05:14 PM
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Basement can be a demanding room for HT. They can be very dead, trap bass in the drop ceiling and kill the mids and Hi's if heavily carpeted. They may have less tactile response due to the solid floors and walls. Basements sometimes require some extra omph, an additional sub or two.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:59 PM
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Well this has officially gotten painful. Replacement amp is in my very own city, but FedEx is holding it hostage until it's scheduled delivery day, even though I was physically at the facility to pick it up.... Oh the humanity!!!
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Where is shadyj?

Hope he is ok that his dreams are crushed lol
How could my dreams be crushed with the new XS15se driver and next month one more!
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:42 PM
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Wow, now the XS15se looks like its really good value compared to the SB13-U. Very comparable numbers for a lot less scratch!


http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...r/measurements
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:09 PM
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^^ No doubt that the XS15se is a terrific value. Heck, it's half the price! Still, I do love my beautiful little Ultra .
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Wow, now the XS15se looks like its really good value compared to the SB13-U. Very comparable numbers for a lot less scratch!


http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...r/measurements
I am suprised that the XS15se actually has a little better compression characteristics compared to the SB13.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I am suprised that the XS15se actually has a little better compression characteristics compared to the SB13.

You gotta love that new driver!
A little more THD compared to the SB13-U but at the same time more output from 25hz down to 12.5hz.


Now I really wanna see the XS30se get tested by Josh!
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I am suprised that the XS15se actually has a little better compression characteristics compared to the SB13.

I noticed that right off the bat after switching over to the SE. Now granted some of this is based solely on auditory memory since I no longer have the SB13u but the bass with the SE unit exhibits much better composure over its predecessor...based on what I'm now hearing with my XS30 SE...I see no reason why a single XS15 SE won't offer a terrific value vs. a single SB13U and for the price of a single you buy 2 XS15's....no brainer...IMHO.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
You gotta love that new driver!
A little more THD compared to the SB13-U but at the same time more output from 25hz down to 12.5hz.


Now I really wanna see the XS30se get tested by Josh!
I fell ya. I'd also love to see Josh test the new XV15se. I'd love to see the differences between the two XV15s.

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Old 07-07-2014, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I fell ya. I'd also love to see Josh test the new XV15se. I'd love to see the differences between the two XV15s.
Ricci will be testing the XS30se and XV15se next along with the Triax by years end.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:34 PM
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I think its absolutely awesome that PSA will have ALL of their subs tested by Josh, that way NO ONE can accuse them of finding behind anything and not wanting their other subs tested. I think he speaks volumes about Tom & Jim even though it doesn't even need to be said!
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:46 AM
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Question about the placement of the XS30se:
What restrictions on placement are there from the dual opposed drivers? e.g. oriented parallel/perpendicular/diagonal to wall, needs x feet of clearance on each end, point on at listeners other at wall, etc. Or none at all? What are users' preferred placements?
I'm loving that this sub has great reviews, awesome price, and is made in USA, but placement seems a challenge.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epepin View Post
Question about the placement of the XS30se:
What restrictions on placement are there from the dual opposed drivers? e.g. oriented parallel/perpendicular/diagonal to wall, needs x feet of clearance on each end, point on at listeners other at wall, etc. Or none at all? What are users' preferred placements?
I'm loving that this sub has great reviews, awesome price, and is made in USA, but placement seems a challenge.

There's really no restriction except we recommend a minimum of 1.0 to 1.25 inch of clearance between each grill and anything that may obstruct the output of the sub(wall, furniture, etc). As far as user preference that is often dictated by placement limitations and specific room interactions. And thank you for commenting on the Made in USA aspect of our products. That is something very important to us here at Power Sound Audio and comments like yours never get old..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I am suprised that the XS15se actually has a little better compression characteristics compared to the SB13.
For anyone comparing the data be sure to note the Y axis is scaled different. Ours has 2dB spacing, the sb13u has 1dB spacing. So while ours looks significantly better, when the scaling is considered it is only a "little" better. We have about 30%(?) more clean output <30hz too which is never a bad thing...especially when the enclosures are about the same size as well.

I've been trying to tell folks not to under estimate the XS15se because it is only $799...no one ever listens..

Click image for larger version

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Old 07-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
Basement can be a demanding room for HT. They can be very dead, trap bass in the drop ceiling and kill the mids and Hi's if heavily carpeted. They may have less tactile response due to the solid floors and walls. Basements sometimes require some extra omph, an additional sub or two.
That is true. One of the biggest issues is lack of tactile feedback from the floor vibrations. I think we made some progress with the issues here through a long CHAT session last night. Hopefully we're on the right track and he can update us here soon.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
For anyone comparing the data be sure to note the Y axis is scaled different. Ours has 2dB spacing, the sb13u has 1dB spacing. So while ours looks significantly better, when the scaling is considered it is only a "little" better. We have about 30%(?) more clean output <30hz too which is never a bad thing...especially when the enclosures are about the same size as well.

I've been trying to tell folks not to under estimate the XS15se because it is only $799...no one ever listens..

Attachment 153129



Tom V.
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You know, for all the negative posts by certain people in other threads about Tom's "Shady" (pun intended? who knows) and "misleading" tactics.....how many other sales people would be willing to point out that the graphs are scaled differently, and that there isn't as much of an advantage? I would be willing to bet not very many. This just goes to show once again that Tom is trying to be transparent and making an effort to help people make a decision that is right for them. Much like when you ask him about a Triax and he tells you that an XV15 would be more than enough for your setup. Kudo's to you Tom.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
1)Which receiver and speakers are you using in the system?

2)Please be sure that all speakers are set to small with the crossover at 80hz for now

3)Where is the gain on the sub? We have found that gain settings in the 1 O:clock to 2 O:clock position seem to work best.

4)have you calibrated the system? Either with an auto setup routine like Audyssey or manually with a SPL meter?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


Hi Tom .. working on my set up have a really sore back .. so much to do .. my rack is almost 500lbs of amps.. setting the analog pre amp Xover
for the 2.2 is a slow process hard on the back lol.. the subs sound very clean tho.. working on it.. but seems a tad short on bass.. im up to
2.30 oclock on the sub gain .. rca to lfe.. max xover on sub.. phase im having trouble hearing a difference when I try to change..
main s high pass sub is low pass.. etc..


wanted to ask for a link or steps for manually setting up with spl meter?


subs and boxes where in excellent shape thanks for quick delivery ...


cheers
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
That is true. One of the biggest issues is lack of tactile feedback from the floor vibrations. I think we made some progress with the issues here through a long CHAT session last night. Hopefully we're on the right track and he can update us here soon.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Yeah, appreciate the help Tom.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
You know, for all the negative posts by certain people in other threads about Tom's "Shady" (pun intended? who knows) and "misleading" tactics.....how many other sales people would be willing to point out that the graphs are scaled differently, and that there isn't as much of an advantage? I would be willing to bet not very many. This just goes to show once again that Tom is trying to be transparent and making an effort to help people make a decision that is right for them. Much like when you ask him about a Triax and he tells you that an XV15 would be more than enough for your setup. Kudo's to you Tom.
I am more inclined to be less perturbed in dealing with ShadyJ comments. I know he has very limited or any empirical data on his own regarding testing or measuring drivers/subs.

I did find Basso's comments more unsettling . His chomping at the bit to get his digs in at TV whenever...he can. I personally don't give a rats a$$ what he has brought to the table in all his years of service here as a member....there are plenty of others here with as much knowledge or expertise and more tact that don't stoop to his level and bring up saved dialogue/conversation from 2,3,5 or 10 + years ago....

I like this forum but its not my personal favorite hang-out but I don't make it a habit in getting banned just because somebody is acting on the same level as a grade school kid.

As for Tom & Jim....they're nothing but up front and class gents. I wish, I could of had more time on my visit there to meet TV...but like he explained to me with a email exchange... he had to stop by his Dad's with some groceries and I just missed him by 10 mins or so ...I do plan on making another trip back one day...
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Ricci will be testing the XS30se and XV15se next along with the Triax by years end.
Yeah, we'll likely have all three of these off to Josh before the end of the year. Well, before Winter sets in so Josh can measure without having to shovel snow. We have a XS30 review coming up soon and another 2-3 subs shipping out for other reviews in the next 2-4 weeks.

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Old 07-08-2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
Hi Tom .. working on my set up have a really sore back .. so much to do .. my rack is almost 500lbs of amps.. setting the analog pre amp Xover
for the 2.2 is a slow process hard on the back lol.. the subs sound very clean tho.. working on it.. but seems a tad short on bass.. im up to
2.30 oclock on the sub gain .. rca to lfe.. max xover on sub.. phase im having trouble hearing a difference when I try to change..
main s high pass sub is low pass.. etc..


wanted to ask for a link or steps for manually setting up with spl meter?


subs and boxes where in excellent shape thanks for quick delivery ...


cheers
Sorry to hear about the back problems, Jim and I can both relate!

With a SPL meter, start with only one sub powered up. Set all speakers to about 75dB, sub to about 70-71dB. If your AVR does the distance for you leave the phase at 0. If it doesn't do the distance for you, experiment with the phase setting until you get max output on the SPL meter with some good "bassy" music. And by "bassy" please don't pop in something like "bass to kill your speakers". I mean *real* music. Country music actually works well because it tends to have repetitive bass lines that move up/down a little(in freq). In any case, this will work best with a friend that can SLOWLY rotate the phase control for you while you sit at the main seat and judge the music loudness/tightness. Where ever it is loudest, that is the correct phase setting. The first 30 seconds of "good times bad times" isn't a horrible choice either.

Now, turn the second sub on and set the gain to the same position as the first sub. With the subwoofer test tone playing through the system(which should be 40-80hz bandwidth limited) set the phase control on the second sub so the meter reads the loudest. This should have sub #2 in "phase" with sub #1 which is "in phase" with your mains..

The only think you need to do after this is adjust the gain control(s) to suit you bass level preferences.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Sorry to hear about the back problems, Jim and I can both relate!

With a SPL meter, start with only one sub powered up. Set all speakers to about 75dB, sub to about 70-71dB. If your AVR does the distance for you leave the phase at 0. If it doesn't do the distance for you, experiment with the phase setting until you get max output on the SPL meter with some good "bassy" music. And by "bassy" please don't pop in something like "bass to kill your speakers". I mean *real* music. Country music actually works well because it tends to have repetitive bass lines that move up/down a little(in freq). In any case, this will work best with a friend that can SLOWLY rotate the phase control for you while you sit at the main seat and judge the music loudness/tightness. Where ever it is loudest, that is the correct phase setting. The first 30 seconds of "good times bad times" isn't a horrible choice either.

Now, turn the second sub on and set the gain to the same position as the first sub. With the subwoofer test tone playing through the system(which should be 40-80hz bandwidth limited) set the phase control on the second sub so the meter reads the loudest. This should have sub #2 in "phase" with sub #1 which is "in phase" with your mains..

The only think you need to do after this is adjust the gain control(s) to suit you bass level preferences.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
thanks Tom.. will look at this a bit later think I will take day off due to back .. I knew setup will be a pain.. lol..


do you like 2.2 stereo subs best tom or do you like mono dual subs best for 2 channel?


I never had 2 subs before so .. I did like the stereo sound last night.. needs tuning..


is it a good sign that the sound was very even though out the whole room when moving around? (but didn't check evry sqft..) generally speaking..


im using buddy guy or stevie ray vaughon for testing ...



im using an analog pre amp the xsp 1 from emotive ... to set the mains at 75 db would be done with the master volume... when I find this level
I then adjust the subs to 75 db for this level on the master volume?


just measure from the main lp ? my meter is a pyle.. has fast and slow, a and c, and hi and low , where would u put the settings?


thanks Tom


Bob
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Old 07-08-2014, 03:03 PM
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Here is a snapshot taken from essentially the same sub location:
You can see the SE is much smoother & flatter from ~50hz and on up...I will plan on doing some more work with room placement and see if things improve some...pretty good so far though...
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Old 07-08-2014, 03:29 PM
 
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Original XS30 for sale.. $850
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Old 07-08-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
thanks Tom.. will look at this a bit later think I will take day off due to back .. I knew setup will be a pain.. lol..


do you like 2.2 stereo subs best tom or do you like mono dual subs best for 2 channel?


I never had 2 subs before so .. I did like the stereo sound last night.. needs tuning..


is it a good sign that the sound was very even though out the whole room when moving around? (but didn't check evry sqft..) generally speaking..


im using buddy guy or stevie ray vaughon for testing ...



im using an analog pre amp the xsp 1 from emotive ... to set the mains at 75 db would be done with the master volume... when I find this level
I then adjust the subs to 75 db for this level on the master volume?


just measure from the main lp ? my meter is a pyle.. has fast and slow, a and c, and hi and low , where would u put the settings?


thanks Tom


Bob
SPL meter = SLOW / C Weighting. Most of the inexpensive SPL meters all use the same mic element so the Pyle should be just as accurate as the RS. We're really not worried about absolutes anyway, just the output of the speakers/subs *relative* to each other.

I would keep it simple, dual mono.

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Stereo%20Bass.pdf

As far as the best way to calibrate things with the xsp-1 I would check with emotiva. I usually just get more confused when I DL one of their owner's manuals(using the term loosely)..

It is a good sign that the bass quality doesn't seem to change significantly as you move around room. Just take your time and don't feel like you need to get everything to 100% within 24 hours. Enjoy some music and a good film or two...let the dual XS15se subs stretch their legs a little.

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Power Sound Audio
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Old 07-08-2014, 05:19 PM
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While I do believe those 215RT would be a major step up for music in a 2.0 stereo setup, I do not see the point jumping up from 212's when you have a pair of Triax's that I am sure handle everything from 120hz down beautifully. I do frequent the JTR thread a lot even tho I do not post much there and what I see frequently is the "gotta keep up with the jones" syndrome. That being said I do think those 215 RT's are amazing judging by the specs and reviews
Maybe you don't see the point, but I do, but thanks for your concern.
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Old 07-08-2014, 05:27 PM
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Maybe you don't see the point, but I do, but thanks for your concern.
When you run out of stuff to spend money on, feel free to send some my way.

Just kidding around Reef...Those 215's are going to be awesome I am sure.

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Old 07-08-2014, 05:57 PM
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I don't remember reading about this here....perhaps I just missed it...

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/14746225-summer-of-bass-promotion



Edit....sorry about the non working link (you'll have to copy and paste it to your browser). Ever since the change to the new site the mobile site has been almost useless for me...key features I've used before now do not work with no fix in sight...

Last edited by Saturn94; 07-08-2014 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
When you run out of stuff to spend money on, feel free to send some my way.

Just kidding around Reef...Those 215's are going to be awesome I am sure.
you wanna laugh, my wife made me buy them. I was going to order them 2 weeks ago and then I changed my mind and decided to keep my 212 and I closed my classified. I showed her a picture on facebook and she told me to get them for our new theater. She loves this stuff as much as me.
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