Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 426 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #12751 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
there you go again showing off your ignorance! the xsp 1 analog pre amp is top notch.. for 2 channel audio.. you are clueless about fine audio..


how old are you bass head ...? read between the lines what kind of nonsense is that.... your really degrading yourself here..


have a good day..
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post #12752 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 04:21 PM
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Thanks Bass,

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post #12753 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Are you referring to the PSA speakers they are planning to come out with? I'm wondering if my pioneer elite sc35 will have enough power to run them to full power... Never understood how to make that determination.
You won't need much amp power for our speakers. They will be pretty efficient. Even an entry level AVR will have plenty of power for them.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #12754 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Thanks Bass,

Tom V.
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No problem!

Also my apologies to Cableguy. I did not intend to offend you. Sometimes my posts can come off the wrong way and I apologize for that. It read like you were looking for a possible solution to help integrate your subs a few posts back. If this was not the case then my mistake. I am sure the XSP-1 is a fine piece of audio equip. for 2 channel, but when it comes to 5.2,7.2...etc multichannel audio, integrating can be a bit more tricky. A AVR with XT32 combined with measuring the FR(REW) could possibly put all the pieces to the puzzle together for you. Or simply adding a external Dirac live, mini dsp, or some other form of external eq device could be a good solution being it will integrate with the xsp-1. I was just commenting from the standpoint that I have seen several folks get away from emotive pre/pro stuff and go to
A dedicated AVR. Again did not mean to ruffle feather.

Fwiw I run a adcom gfa 555II powering my mains. For 2 channel stereo or full range listening it dominates my AVR for clean output capabillity. However when running all my speakers small, my AVR does a good job redirecting bass to the subs and taking the load off of the mains. Could external amps still be a benifit, possibly, but I think a high end AVR like a Yammie 3030 or Denon 4520/X4000 could do a reasonable job driving most speakers when crossed 80hz or higher.... Especially the high efficiency ID speakers such as JTR, Seaton, and soon PSA.
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post #12755 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
You won't need much amp power for our speakers. They will be pretty efficient. Even an entry level AVR will have plenty of power for them.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Okay, okay, you big tease... You're killing us with the anticipation.
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post #12756 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Okay, okay, you big tease... You're killing us with the anticipation.
I really try NOT to discuss it unless there are specific questions..

We would have been done a month ago but one of our driver vendors came up with a last minute new idea/mod to one of our custom 10s. At first I was like..."no, no, no...we've taken too long already". Then Jim talked sense into me saying "hey, we've waited this long, if we can make it just a LITTLE better, what's another few weeks?"



Anyway, now that these are just about done, my attention is turning toward a new "witness" subwoofer for Lebron's HT in Akron.. (j/k)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #12757 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I really try NOT to discuss it unless there are specific questions..

We would have been done a month ago but one of our driver vendors came up with a last minute new idea/mod to one of our custom 10s. At first I was like..."no, no, no...we've taken too long already". Then Jim talked sense into me saying "hey, we've waited this long, if we can make it just a LITTLE better, what's another few weeks?"



Anyway, now that these are just about done, my attention is turning toward a new "witness" subwoofer for Lebron's HT in Akron.. (j/k)

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
To be a fly on the wall of your shop...
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post #12758 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 06:57 PM
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Hey Fatty, your SC35 is no slouch and should be more than plenty for the new PSA speakers. Do not feel that you need to get a separate amp!
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post #12759 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
. I have just starting using the amps of my receiver recently and must say I can not tell the difference between it and my separates. To each his own, I'm just expressing my opinion and experiences, maybe someone can gain from my experiences.
Cheers Jeff
That's because, as long as an amp or AVR is not driven into clipping, there is no difference in sound "quality" between amps and avr's. If your amp or avr is delivering clean, distortion free power at your listening level, then an exorbitantly expensive "audiophile" component amp is not going to "sound" better than any modern day, good quality avr. Amps don't generate a particular "sound", they simply provide power. If they do, then they are artificially coloring the sound in some way, which in my opinion, they should not be doing. Now, that is not to say that different versions of room correction or dynamic eq etc will cause differences in sound quality. Or if a low level AVR is running out of power and clipping, then of course you need more power. But that is a totally different issue than saying there is a "sound quality" difference between any decent AVR and expensive separates.
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post #12760 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
That's because, as long as an amp or AVR is not driven into clipping, there is no difference in sound "quality" between amps and avr's. If your amp or avr is delivering clean, distortion free power at your listening level, then an exorbitantly expensive "audiophile" component amp is not going to "sound" better than any modern day, good quality avr. Amps don't generate a particular "sound", they simply provide power. If they do, then they are artificially coloring the sound in some way, which in my opinion, they should not be doing. Now, that is not to say that different versions of room correction or dynamic eq etc will cause differences in sound quality. Or if a low level AVR is running out of power and clipping, then of course you need more power. But that is a totally different issue than saying there is a "sound quality" difference between any decent AVR and expensive separates.
Well stated!
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post #12761 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
You won't need much amp power for our speakers. They will be pretty efficient. Even an entry level AVR will have plenty of power for them.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post
Hey Fatty, your SC35 is no slouch and should be more than plenty for the new PSA speakers. Do not feel that you need to get a separate amp!
Well this is great news! I've avoided buying new speakers for a long while for fear of needing external amps. I stretched to get the sc35 which makes me current speakers sound excellent imo.

To bear's point, at -10MV as my absolute max (MLP ~10ft from mains) I put a pretty low power demand on things.
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post #12762 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
You won't need much amp power for our speakers. They will be pretty efficient. Even an entry level AVR will have plenty of power for them.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Tom, you took the words right out of my mouth, and Fatty, you're Pioneer will do just fine with the new speakers, count on it............. Hopefully soon I will be able to attest to that bold statement Jim and Tom
Cheers Jeff
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post #12763 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Well this is great news! I've avoided buying new speakers for a long while for fear of needing external amps. I stretched to get the sc35 which makes me current speakers sound excellent imo.

To bear's point, at -10MV as my absolute max (MLP ~10ft from mains) I put a pretty low power demand on things.
I was the same way, actually never went higher than -15 and -20 was my norm. After getting high efficiency speakers that could play above reference with no distortion I have significantly increased my listening levels. Now, -10 is more the norm and I occasionally go to 0 or more. My old speakers lacked efficiency and distorted when much above -10 so it sounded piercing and much louder.

I have a feeling the new PSA speakers will be able to cruise along at reference and sound great doing it leading to people turning them up louder than they are used to.
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post #12764 of 29810 Old 07-13-2014, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I was the same way, actually never went higher than -15 and -20 was my norm. After getting high efficiency speakers that could play above reference with no distortion I have significantly increased my listening levels. Now, -10 is more the norm and I occasionally go to 0 or more. My old speakers lacked efficiency and distorted when much above -10 so it sounded piercing and much louder.

I have a feeling the new PSA speakers will be able to cruise along at reference and sound great doing it leading to people turning them up louder than they are used to.
Well if that is the case I might outrun my xv15se's I just bought.

.... Or perhaps I'll finally let them stretch their legs a bit.

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post #12765 of 29810 Old 07-14-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Well this is great news! I've avoided buying new speakers for a long while for fear of needing external amps. I stretched to get the sc35 which makes me current speakers sound excellent imo.

To bear's point, at -10MV as my absolute max (MLP ~10ft from mains) I put a pretty low power demand on things.
At 10dB under (reference) you will be looking at 95dB peaks from the full range channels. For our speakers, 10-20 watts will be *plenty* in all but the largest of rooms(think >10,000 cu-ft for example).

Tom V.
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post #12766 of 29810 Old 07-14-2014, 11:21 AM
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I've been a bit quiet lately so here is an update. Busy at work(70-80 hour weeks) which is normal, but taking nine hours of classes to finish up a degree is leaving me stretched quite thin. I will be done 7/31...can't wait. Decided to hold off on the surround speaker addition I was planning, for a couple of reasons. Actually plan to move most of the audio equipment to the basement next year into a dedicated super low budget home theater. And our solution for surround speakers was going to be matching in walls which is too much money to spend along with installation cost and difficulty for a temporary setup that I won't be able to use next year. So I'm just kicking back enjoying my setup here and there when time permits, which isn't often. PSA's speakers seem like they will fill a very unique slot of performance and price. My current AVR/speaker combo is my weaker link as compared to the subs. AVR/speakers run out of steam before my subs do, but honestly it is still way more than I normally need. I can see them being a contender if I ever get the itch to upgrade my bookshelf speakers though, especially with the efficiency which is like getting a "free" AVR upgrade.
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post #12767 of 29810 Old 07-15-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
I will waite for the finished product...


it is just a flash memory upgrade.. not hardware..


cheers
Right, that is what I heard too. They even send you the USB fully loaded. On the subject of Direc, does anyone have much experience with it? I was looking over the miniDSP site and they are now offering Direc enabled processors but they seem to be limited to 2 channels at the moment?

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post #12768 of 29810 Old 07-15-2014, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
To be a fly on the wall of your shop...
You know after I posted that I tried to find some info on his "Media" room in Akron but didn't come up with much. Does anyone know any details? He did a huge reno in 2006 didn't he? I'm guessing back then the installer just put a half a dozen Vel 18s or Triad 18s hidden behind the screen or something like that..

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post #12769 of 29810 Old 07-15-2014, 08:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Right, that is what I heard too. They even send you the USB fully loaded. On the subject of Direc, does anyone have much experience with it? I was looking over the miniDSP site and they are now offering Direc enabled processors but they seem to be limited to 2 channels at the moment?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
I've used the free demo for 2 channel and it was quite impressive. Much more intuitive than audyssey. And customizable.

I think once everything is released and bugs worked out I may try it out. Soley because it will allow me to get rid of a lot of components (DAC, 2 channel preamp, avr all combined into one fine sounding unit ) of course this is all after I see and hear lots of positive reviews. The unit won't go anywhere. So no need to jump in too quickly

Tom what are your thoughts on atmos? Think it will catch on?
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post #12770 of 29810 Old 07-15-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I've used the free demo for 2 channel and it was quite impressive. Much more intuitive than audyssey. And customizable.

I think once everything is released and bugs worked out I may try it out. Soley because it will allow me to get rid of a lot of components (DAC, 2 channel preamp, avr all combined into one fine sounding unit ) of course this is all after I see and hear lots of positive reviews. The unit won't go anywhere. So no need to jump in too quickly

Tom what are your thoughts on atmos? Think it will catch on?
I'm mainly basing this off of the information I have read from *names* I give great weight too...Like Roger Dressler for example. Based on their input, I don't see how this won't "catch on".


1)Object based will offer audible benefits
2)Ceiling speakers (or up firing modules) will add a new dimension to the sound stage
3)The processors and AVRs already announced don't seem to be any higher in price than I would have expected from non Atmos enabled products.
4)They reports on the up firing speaker modules (instead of dedicated ceiling speakers) seem to all be very positive.
5)The major studios are on board already or show signs of getting on board quickly.

I don't expect the majority of home theaters too suddenly jump from a 5.1 system to a 7.4.2 system of course. But if anyone is in the market for a new AVR/processor now...I don't see why they would even consider something without Atmos(barring close out deals and the such).

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #12771 of 29810 Old 07-15-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I've used the free demo for 2 channel and it was quite impressive. Much more intuitive than audyssey. And customizable.

I think once everything is released and bugs worked out I may try it out. Soley because it will allow me to get rid of a lot of components (DAC, 2 channel preamp, avr all combined into one fine sounding unit ) of course this is all after I see and hear lots of positive reviews. The unit won't go anywhere. So no need to jump in too quickly

Tom what are your thoughts on atmos? Think it will catch on?
Do you know if Dirac has the ability to EQ dual subs discretely? Audyssey's HT SUB EQ seems to do a heck of a job there. And Pioneer(?) just announced all of their new stuff will have this capability too.

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post #12772 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 08:11 AM
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crossover setting for in walls

Wondering if anybody has Episode in-wall speakers. I am trying to get some point of referrence for setting my XV-15's x-over frequency-my Yamaha YPAO program set the x-over at 110, but seems like there isn't enough coming from the speakers. Wondering if I can go up on the setting-how high can I raise the XVcrossover before it becomes noticeable (location wise)?
My 3 front spkrs are Episode 500 series with a 6.5 in woofer and stated extension to 50Hz.
Thanks guys
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post #12773 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post
Wondering if anybody has Episode in-wall speakers. I am trying to get some point of referrence for setting my XV-15's x-over frequency-my Yamaha YPAO program set the x-over at 110, but seems like there isn't enough coming from the speakers. Wondering if I can go up on the setting-how high can I raise the XVcrossover before it becomes noticeable (location wise)?
My 3 front spkrs are Episode 500 series with a 6.5 in woofer and stated extension to 50Hz.
Thanks guys
Your speakers are -6db at 50hz...Audyssey measures the -3db point so 110hz could be correct.

What do you mean when you say "seems like there isn't enough coming from the speakers"? Enough what (volume, bass, midrange, treble)?

80db is the typical crossover setting that will keep sub localization to minimum...where is your sub located in relation to you listening position? In your situation, I would recommend finding the best position along the front wall since your x-over has to be higher than 80hz.


EDIT: Ooops, just noticed you were using YPAO. I assume YPAO measures the -3db point as well, but I'm not sure of this.
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post #12774 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 09:26 AM
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[QUOTE=Alan P;25787761]Your speakers are -6db at 50hz...Audyssey measures the -3db point so 110hz could be correct.

What do you mean when you say "seems like there isn't enough coming from the speakers"? Enough what (volume, bass, midrange, treble)?

80db is the typical crossover setting that will keep sub localization to minimum...where is your sub located in relation to you listening position? In your situation, I would recommend finding the best position along the front wall since your x-over has to be higher than 80hz.

by not enough, referring to midrange just seems sort of "sucked out". Sub is in left front corner-I found that this was the best position after moving it and doing the crawl.
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post #12775 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 10:05 AM
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Hmunster,

Sounds like you have a cancellation around the crossover point. You could try adjusting the phase dial and/or changing the distance setting for the sub via the AVR.It would be much easier to see the changes being made are infact going the right direction with a freeware copy of REW and a USB measuring mic(UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum)
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post #12776 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
How is YPAO compared to Audyssey?
It performs audio correction for your room.

Just kidding, I have no idea. I couldn't resist.
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post #12778 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 08:39 PM
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How is YPAO compared to Audyssey?
It doesn't EQ the subs from what I remember.
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post #12779 of 29810 Old 07-16-2014, 09:47 PM
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Ypao only has sub eq on the top tier models 20xx and 30xx aventage. However ypao does a set distances and levels with all speakers including the sub channel on the lower models. I believe the 77x series on up has 8 point measurement with R.S.C.
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post #12780 of 29810 Old 07-17-2014, 09:27 AM
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Has anyone compared the pb12 plus and the xv15se to see witch one sounds better over all? Because I have a Pb12 plus but just wondering if I should sell it and upgrade it.
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Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , v1500 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

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