Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 429 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 07-22-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
For any of you out there running quads, what is the preferred method for doing this? Are you splitting three times off the AVR or daisy chaining? Or maybe you are fortunate and have two sub channels?

Just curious as it seems quad xv15se's might be just as potent as dual Triax's, at least in the 16-25hz range (for barely more than the cost of a single Triax). Are there other considerations to be made? Such as improves SQ with the Triax or maybe signal degradation from so many splits?
1)I think it is more like 3 XS15s = 1 Triax. (roughly)

2)I'd say the multiple XS15se would have the SQ edge in most cases simply because of the room smoothing effect with 3 subs versus 1.

3)no worries about signal degradation with 2-3 splits

Tom V.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
For any of you out there running quads, what is the preferred method for doing this? Are you splitting three times off the AVR or daisy chaining? Or maybe you are fortunate and have two sub channels?

Just curious as it seems quad xv15se's might be just as potent as dual Triax's, at least in the 16-25hz range (for barely more than the cost of a single Triax). Are there other considerations to be made? Such as improves SQ with the Triax or maybe signal degradation from so many splits?
I was wondering the same. You could get quad XV30Fse's for a similar price to dual Triax's. In general, what would we the expected differences? I know that room size, treatments etc. would come into play. When I have asked similar questions in the past, generally, the response is that four less powerful subs would be preferred over dual monsters. I haven't seen that conversation for these specific subs. I know that some are adding additional "near" subs for the tactile impact. After watching those YouTube videos of the Triax, I'm not sure which would be more tactile.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
1)I think it is more like 3 XS15s = 1 Triax. (roughly)

2)I'd say the multiple XS15se would have the SQ edge in most cases simply because of the room smoothing effect with 3 subs versus 1.

3)no worries about signal degradation with 2-3 splits

Tom V.
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I believe the member you quoted was talking about XV15se.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
I was wondering the same. You could get quad XV30Fse's for a similar price to dual Triax's. In general, what would we the expected differences? I know that room size, treatments etc. would come into play. When I have asked similar questions in the past, generally, the response is that four less powerful subs would be preferred over dual monsters. I haven't seen that conversation for these specific subs. I know that some are adding additional "near" subs for the tactile impact. After watching those YouTube videos of the Triax, I'm not sure which would be more tactile.
The quad XV30's would have a 1-2db edge in the 16-30hz the dual Triax's would have a 1-2db advantage in the 40-100hz.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I believe the member you quoted was talking about XV15se.
Right...sorry. I was more interested in a comparison with the XV30Fse since the pricing for four is close to dual Triax's. My question was similar...not the same. I didn't word that very well.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I believe the member you quoted was talking about XV15se.
So much for the 10 pound brain.....sheesh.

That is a tougher comparison as it is ported vs sealed and each has their own pros and cons.

In the mid/upper bass the Triax will have about 3x the output. In a narrow frequency window near the XV15se tuning point, the Triax advantage will be much less mayber 2-3dB. But the Triax will be able to energize all but the largest of rooms into the single digits too.

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Old 07-22-2014, 10:45 AM
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Welcome to the PSA fam! You have now entered the world of Real BASS!!

I tried to enter that world last week and failed
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The quad XV30's would have a 1-2db edge in the 16-30hz the dual Triax's would have a 1-2db advantage in the 40-100hz.
Cool...Thanks for the info! I've learned a lot on this site...but have a LONG way to go!
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:02 AM
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Sub outputs

I'm fortunate to have dual sub outputs and I'm running four XV15SEs from them, two subs from each output with a single male RCA to dual female RCAs Y splitter no signal degradation at all, I was even running two totally different lengths of sub cable, 2 35' and 2 12' with no signal loss, I now have them stacked two in each front corner and all cables are 12'. No I still haven't calibrated or dialed in all four, just using the front L&R corner loaded subs for now and am thoroughly impressed, I hoping for a 6-8 dB increase in output and plenty of headroom left over Seriously I will post my results soon, still recovering from my second total hip replacement, age does that
Cheers Jeff
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
Right...sorry. I was more interested in a comparison with the XV30Fse since the pricing for four is close to dual Triax's. My question was similar...not the same. I didn't word that very well.

It is difficult to compare the Triax to our ported models as they have different design goals.

If someone was trying to decide between one Triax or two XV30Fse...there's three questions that come to mind.

1)Room size, and openings to other areas of the home?

2)How much headroom is needed? Full reference levels? 5dB under? 10?

3)if you start with a single Triax will you be able to consider adding a second in the future?

The smaller the room, the more I'd lean toward the Triax. If the room is larger(open) and the goal is reference level playback, the dual XV30Fse might make more sense.

Tom V.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:29 AM
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I tried to enter that world last week and failed
Are you saying you tried out a PSA sub and it failed like the SVS PB-1000? If so, you have the worst luck I've ever seen. Perhaps I should stop reading and responding to your posts for fear your luck will rub off BTW, I am an equal opportunity buyer. I have the SVS SB13-Ultra and the PSA XS30 and think both are excellent. One is pulling duty as a music-only sub, while the other is pulling duty as a movie-only sub.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:42 AM
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Are you saying you tried out a PSA sub and it failed like the SVS PB-1000? If so, you have the worst luck I've ever seen. Perhaps I should stop reading and responding to your posts for fear your luck will rub off BTW, I am an equal opportunity buyer. I have the SVS SB13-Ultra and the PSA XS30 and think both are excellent. One is pulling duty as a music-only sub, while the other is pulling duty as a movie-only sub.

It was just a joke comment but yes I was referring soley to my experience with the pb-1000. I am pretty unlucky though, quite a lot of stuff I've bought over the years has been faulty in one way or another.

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Old 07-22-2014, 12:59 PM
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^^ We will all be interested in your thoughts on your dual XV15se's. Should work very well, even in a large room. Montana, huh. Great speakers, btw. Another gentleman here on AVS has the Montana speakers (don't remember which model) and absolutely loves them.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
So much for the 10 pound brain.....sheesh.

That is a tougher comparison as it is ported vs sealed and each has their own pros and cons.

In the mid/upper bass the Triax will have about 3x the output. In a narrow frequency window near the XV15se tuning point, the Triax advantage will be much less mayber 2-3dB. But the Triax will be able to energize all but the largest of rooms into the single digits too.

Tom V.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
It is difficult to compare the Triax to our ported models as they have different design goals.

If someone was trying to decide between one Triax or two XV30Fse...there's three questions that come to mind.

1)Room size, and openings to other areas of the home?

2)How much headroom is needed? Full reference levels? 5dB under? 10?

3)if you start with a single Triax will you be able to consider adding a second in the future?

The smaller the room, the more I'd lean toward the Triax. If the room is larger(open) and the goal is reference level playback, the dual XV30Fse might make more sense.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
1)I think it is more like 3 XS15s = 1 Triax. (roughly)

2)I'd say the multiple XS15se would have the SQ edge in most cases simply because of the room smoothing effect with 3 subs versus 1.

3)no worries about signal degradation with 2-3 splits

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Thanks Tom! This is exactly the kinda stuff I was after. Since I have a 6k cu ft room I tend to exclusively look to ported subs, but since the Triax is so beastly I began to wonder how that might behave in such a large space - purely out of curiosity. And looking at the numbers, based on that large a room I would say single digits is likely out the question, so focusing on getting the most output above 20hz might be the best goal. And for this dual stacks of xv15se's might be somewhat comparable to dual Triax's in output for about the cost of one Triax.

A goofy comparison I know. If dual Triax's could manage single digits in that environment... Well then, all bets are off!
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:41 PM
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Yes...Thanks Tom....Very informative
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:04 PM
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If you haven't considered a mini DSP do so. I just completed integrating my xv15se with it and REW and the difference is phenomenal. I had issues with it being boomy and dead areas at 20hz and round 50-60- hz depending on placement and Im sure the room comes into play. Its now much tighter, cleaner and stronger in those areas. I have a hump at 40hz now but Im not complaining. My roll off starts at 20hz but im still hitting 15hz at 85db, I cant stress the difference this has made. Quite honestly its like plugging this sub in again for the first time. Id buy another one in a heartbeat but Ill have to wait til November.

Tom, Thanks for the support and guidance. You were quite right, the difference is night and day and your subs are a testament to yours and Jims hard work. It would have been a shame not to pull every last bit of exceptionalism out of my xv15se.


Regards Jeff L
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:34 PM
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If you haven't considered a mini DSP do so. I just completed integrating my xv15se with it and REW and the difference is phenomenal. I had issues with it being boomy and dead areas at 20hz and round 50-60- hz depending on placement and Im sure the room comes into play. Its now much tighter, cleaner and stronger in those areas. I have a hump at 40hz now but Im not complaining. My roll off starts at 20hz but im still hitting 15hz at 85db, I cant stress the difference this has made. Quite honestly its like plugging this sub in again for the first time. Id buy another one in a heartbeat but Ill have to wait til November.

Tom, Thanks for the support and guidance. You were quite right, the difference is night and day and your subs are a testament to yours and Jims hard work. It would have been a shame not to pull every last bit of exceptionalism out of my xv15se.


Regards Jeff L
We keep hearing very positive feedback from our customers that have added one of the miniDSP products to the subwoofer signal chain. Do you mind if I asked what the cost was with shipping? Also, what are you using for a power supply?

Very good to hear the XV15se is performing well for you too!

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Old 07-22-2014, 03:59 PM
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Hey Tom, the 2x4 unbalanced boxed was $105+$10 plugin+$20 shipping+$135.00 to my door. Ordered on line on a Mon. night, it was at my door Fri. noon from Hong Kong, that's their standard shipping practice. Impressive considering where it came from. Im using an old usb phone charger as a full time plug. Honestly cant say enough about it, really powerful tool. If the one I have crapped out, out of warranty, Id but another right then no hesitation, Feel like I should be a sales rep for them


Regards Jeff
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:41 PM
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I should just walk away from this forum for a few months. This is why I stopped going to slickguns, rctech, ls1tech, and many, many others...I suffer from consumerism with a big ol' side of upgradeitis. it's serious, doc.

Random question, does PSA do any black friday stuff? Or any ID for that matter?


I have had 0 hits on my "3.2 Phase 2; SW upgrade", aka 'which sw(s) should I buy' in the main sw forum...and I've read about 60-80 pages of this thread. I am no closer to an answer now than I was when I started...but I have learned a great deal haha.

For me, I think it really does come down to PSA...

There are 2 XV15's for sale fairly local to me (~3hours round trip) for 1k. I really want to get these, but my upgradeitis says to just get 2 new XV15se's...at which point my upgradeitis says to just get a single XS30se and then get another one later. Any of these will be an upgrade from current dual dayton 1200's. I just can't seem to get my head around the return on investment from the XV15 @1k vs XV15se @1700 (or 1500 if I can work out the internals swap).

Ultimately, I just have to make a decision...but my Fear of Missing out (FOMO) combined with my upgradeitis is killing me. Maybe I get the 2 used...upgrade them...buy another new...have 3. lol it never ends. I'm going to bed.

/rant

I would like to say there is an insane amount of good information on this thread alone and thanks to everyone for their input, knowledge, & time. This site is good stuff...and also the reason I don't have a soundbar quality HT anymore...
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:51 PM
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Get the xv15's for 1k...if you end up wanting more you can upgrade them for 500.00 which puts you 200.00 cheaper then a new pair.

Oh and nice to see a member from another forum I frequent (LS1tech.com).
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
I should just walk away from this forum for a few months. This is why I stopped going to slickguns, rctech, ls1tech, and many, many others...I suffer from consumerism with a big ol' side of upgradeitis. it's serious, doc.

Random question, does PSA do any black friday stuff? Or any ID for that matter?


I have had 0 hits on my "3.2 Phase 2; SW upgrade", aka 'which sw(s) should I buy' in the main sw forum...and I've read about 60-80 pages of this thread. I am no closer to an answer now than I was when I started...but I have learned a great deal haha.

For me, I think it really does come down to PSA...

There are 2 XV15's for sale fairly local to me (~3hours round trip) for 1k. I really want to get these, but my upgradeitis says to just get 2 new XV15se's...at which point my upgradeitis says to just get a single XS30se and then get another one later. Any of these will be an upgrade from current dual dayton 1200's. I just can't seem to get my head around the return on investment from the XV15 @1k vs XV15se @1700 (or 1500 if I can work out the internals swap).

Ultimately, I just have to make a decision...but my Fear of Missing out (FOMO) combined with my upgradeitis is killing me. Maybe I get the 2 used...upgrade them...buy another new...have 3. lol it never ends. I'm going to bed.

/rant

I would like to say there is an insane amount of good information on this thread alone and thanks to everyone for their input, knowledge, & time. This site is good stuff...and also the reason I don't have a soundbar quality HT anymore...
Welcome to the thread! My best advice would be to chat with Tom, either through the chat feature on the PSA website or email. He is a super cool dude and also really knowledgeable. Additionally he doesn't oversell his products (I can in fully ready to get dual XV30se's and he talked me down to xv15se's based on my situation).

Of those choices, personally I would either grab the xv15's and stick with the original hardware, or just buy brand new xv15se's (nothing beats brand spanking new!). Either way talk with Tom about these options and he will provide great insight for you.

Happy hunting sir!

Edit: regarding upgraditis, I've determined that never goes away, no matter what I get there is always that nagging feeling there is "more". Just look at the guy here that has four Triax's!

Last edited by FattyMcButterPants; 07-22-2014 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:05 AM
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Get the xv15's for 1k...if you end up wanting more you can upgrade them for 500.00 which puts you 200.00 cheaper then a new pair.

Oh and nice to see a member from another forum I frequent (LS1tech.com).

That is probably the best value....2 XV15 for $1000 is the cheapest I've ever heard of them going for used. You get the remainder of the warranty(at least 3 more years or so) too. The next best option might be to start with a single XS15se at $899 and add a second one down the road if you feel the need. If you add the second one within one year of the initial purchase it is $799($100 discount).

LS1tech? Getting all fancy now are we..

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Old 07-23-2014, 09:19 AM
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Get the xv15's for 1k...if you end up wanting more you can upgrade them for 500.00 which puts you 200.00 cheaper then a new pair.

Oh and nice to see a member from another forum I frequent (LS1tech.com).
Yeah I think I will see about picking up those used XV's. My only concern is I am 99% sure I'll want to upgrade them at some point...and then it's $500 on top of about a $200 time/money/effort estimate of going and getting them...(I swear that's how the # worked out before this started going down haha) which puts me even with a new, fully warrantied pair. Does the warranty re-up once you upgrade? I'll ask Tom...

I ran away from LS1Tech in a hurry. I actually specifically bought my current car because there was ZERO aftermarket for it...because I know how I am...I had about 5k already planned out in upgrades before I had the car I wanted, thanks to ls1tech...and if there is one thing more than HT stuff my wife just doesn't get the need to spend money on...it's car parts lol. I nearly fully bolted/tuned my last car and managed to get out before the big upgrades came (bigger turbos (and all the supporting mods for that)). Issue with all of the above? I should've just bought the car I wanted because I've managed to find the only two mods for my Genesis sedan (exhaust...K&N lol) and I can't take it anymore. Should've got the CTSV wagon in the first place and been done with it. I'm only prolonging the inevitable...if I talk anymore about selling my car and buying that wagon...my wife may actually stab me haha...jk

Quote:
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Welcome to the thread! My best advice would be to chat with Tom, either through the chat feature on the PSA website or email. He is a super cool dude and also really knowledgeable. Additionally he doesn't oversell his products (I can in fully ready to get dual XV30se's and he talked me down to xv15se's based on my situation).

Of those choices, personally I would either grab the xv15's and stick with the original hardware, or just buy brand new xv15se's (nothing beats brand spanking new!). Either way talk with Tom about these options and he will provide great insight for you.

Happy hunting sir!

Edit: regarding upgraditis, I've determined that never goes away, no matter what I get there is always that nagging feeling there is "more". Just look at the guy here that has four Triax's!
I have talked to Tom a few times now; and he's been most helpful. He also suggested the XV15se vs the XS30se route. My room is actually pretty small, and even when we open it up by knocking the wall down it will only grow to medium.

We just got our escrow refund from the house we recently sold...I swear I have 3rd degree burns on my leg

Anyway, I tend to be a bit long-winded. Thank you for your advice, gentlemen. good day!
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:57 AM
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I'm glad you're looking for new personnel for reviews. I imagine it can be overwhelming when an entire industry relies on one or a select few to do the reviews.That's one thing I haven't enjoyed too much about internet direct subs. I don't really buy something like this unless I can see a review and directly compare. Now, I'm pretty much dead set on a XV15SE, just nothing in graph form yet. I wished this part of the industry moved faster. I can get information about a phone or benchmarks for a new cpu/gpu before they are released but it takes months to get numbers on a sub. I know, it is a much smaller industry, but still. There is always that thought of "well, Fuji's new hybrids look nice, that would get me outside and my family would enjoy that, maybe I want to spend my money that way". No, this guy needs a new sub, not something to make his asthma flare up.
I believe the new XS30se review will be (E)Published later today. As soon as its up we'll link it.

Tom V.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:28 AM
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That's awesome, Tom! I really can't wait to join the club and see what the fuss is about.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:54 AM
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That's awesome, Tom! I really can't wait to join the club and see what the fuss is about.
Oh, you're in for a treat!

Onkyo TX-NR3009 - Emotiva XPA-2 300 WPC - Polk Audio RTiA9 Mains - CSiA6 Center - F/XiA6 Surrounds - Dual PSA XV-15se Subwoofers - Epson 5030UB Projector - Monoprice Multi-format 106" HD Gray screen - Samsung BD-F5900 3D Bluray - WDTV Live HD Media Player with 6TB External Storage - Nintendo Wii - XBox 360 - Logitech Harmony One, and custom DIY media console...
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
That is probably the best value....2 XV15 for $1000 is the cheapest I've ever heard of them going for used. You get the remainder of the warranty(at least 3 more years or so) too. The next best option might be to start with a single XS15se at $899 and add a second one down the road if you feel the need. If you add the second one within one year of the initial purchase it is $799($100 discount).

LS1tech? Getting all fancy now are we..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

I used to be on LS1Tech also ,til I sold my 99 Ram Air Trans am. Now I'm on LS1GTO 2005 GTO
PS. my XS30 is still up for sale..$850.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post
I used to be on LS1Tech also ,til I sold my 99 Ram Air Trans am. Now I'm on LS1GTO 2005 GTO
PS. my XS30 is still up for sale..$850.
You're a member of ls1gto? I spend most of my day logged into there. I have the same name on that site. I'm usually always in the lounge.

I had an 06 with a torquer 2 cam, Kooks headers, loud exhaust, etc.

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Old 07-23-2014, 12:32 PM
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I'm not on there much. My name on there is irocem99. I have a 2005 Yellow/Black Stripes. Had it at Car Craft last weekend in St Paul ,Mn..Good times!
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:58 PM
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Annnnnnnd I pulled the trigger on the XV15's, used. got those, and some old def tech's (SM450 (x2) CLR2000) for a little over 1300. I'm happy with that and now I can basically just make another 3.2 system downstairs in the game room with the DT's and my old subs because I already have an extra AVR laying around. I like it when a plan comes together...

Thanks everyone for helping me spend money.
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