Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 433 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 07-27-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The Ysplitter going to both inputs simply raises the input level 3db. You could of achieved the same result by turning up the amp gain. The only benifit of using both inputs is if you have issue with the sub's auto on feature at lower volumes.

That's what I thought as well, is this considered stereo using both inputs on the sub's amp? I have found out that on all X model subs the gain for me that is, needs to be at 2:00 or higher, you can always lower the AVR's trim levels. I've read so many people saying what a diffrence turning up the sub gain a bit, works for me. You guys are killing me with all this sealed sub stuff, I remember my Cordovan Triax was a beast, I get that what if I saved up and bought that second Triax. Four XV15SEs helps to lessen the remorse, but what a sub that Triax is I now have some money saved for the new speakers so that kind of also lightens the seller remorse of the Triax, it went to a good home, to somebody who really needed it
Cheers Jeff
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:42 PM
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No it is not stereo if you are using the sub out from the AVR...there is no way to get stereo from a mono signal. Now if you are coming from a L/R set of pre outs then yes you could get stereo to the sub.

Wha is killing you about all this sealed stuff?
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:42 PM
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The movie 9 and a XS30se = happiness

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The Ysplitter going to both inputs simply raises the input level 3db. You could of achieved the same result by turning up the amp gain. The only benifit of using both inputs is if you have issue with the sub's auto on feature at lower volumes.

Tom suggested to me to put on a y splitter on my subs ( xs15se) and I got about 13 db more output from each sub!!!!!


major score with a y splitter..


cheers
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
No it is not stereo if you are using the sub out from the AVR...there is no way to get stereo from a mono signal. Now if you are coming from a L/R set of pre outs then yes you could get stereo to the sub.

Wha is killing you about all this sealed stuff?

I have my subs set up for stereo 2 channel play back right now and it sounds very good but I have a hard time hearing the differences over the mono set up... back and forth a few times now hard too say what I like best..


cheers
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
Tom suggested to me to put on a y splitter on my subs ( xs15se) and I got about 13 db more output from each sub!!!!!


major score with a y splitter..


cheers
How? Do you have proof?
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:31 AM
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I XV's should be here today. I threw my back out yesterday (for the second time in 3 weeks). Looks like I won't be getting them setup for a while. torturous I tellsya.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:37 AM
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For those of you who have done it, what's the typical turnaround time for the SE upgrade? I've been thinking of doing the upgrade for my XV15 but I've had a busy summer so far so I haven't gotten around to it. I was going to place my order today but I wanted an idea of how long I'd be without my sub!

Thanks!
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:57 AM
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A week roughly....
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post
I do have a splitter running to both inputs.
I love the x4000. One of my best A/V purchases.

Now I wonder if a 2nd XS15SE would be capable of pressuring my room?
It's a free 30 day trial to find out and the second unit will only be $699.

We are "out of stock" on the XS15se at the moment though. We hope to resume shipping by the end of this end.

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Old 07-28-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
Tom suggested to me to put on a y splitter on my subs ( xs15se) and I got about 13 db more output from each sub!!!!!


major score with a y splitter..


cheers
Hi Cableguy,

I found a couple of inexpensive gain boosters you can consider.

1)Radio Shack Sa-155

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Radi...FSyCMgod8QQAhA

$30-40 used(plenty on ebay). You might be able to find one local with any luck.

2)The Art cleanbox. http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equip...FQE2aQodIzwARQ

With the cleanbox you need to connect the unused in/outs together so if you use the RCA in out to connect to your system you will need two extra XLR cables. Remember to add that to the cost. (you need to connect the XLR inputs to the XLR outputs).

Of course if we have things dialed in now and you are getting excellent output with music(I think your HT has always been fine?)....no need to pursue more gain flexibility..

Tom V.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
A week roughly....

That's about right, just depends on where folks live. We start by sending out a box for your amp. Then once we get that back, we reprogram it and send it back to you with the new SE 15" driver. So if you are say 2 days away.....figure 6 business days.


Here is a fedex ground map showing the transit times from our skunk works. Purple = 1 day, Blue = 2, Orange =3, Green = 4

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
It's a free 30 day trial to find out and the second unit will only be $699.

We are "out of stock" on the XS15se at the moment though. We hope to resume shipping by the end of this end.

Tom V.
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Awesome. Did I also catch that the discount is good on 2nd sub anytime in 1st year?

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
That's about right, just depends on where folks live. We start by sending out a box for your amp. Then once we get that back, we reprogram it and send it back to you with the new SE 15" driver. So if you are say 2 days away.....figure 6 business days.


Here is a fedex ground map showing the transit times from our skunk works. Purple = 1 day, Blue = 2, Orange =3, Green = 4

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What is that pink area in central Ca and NV? Is that no man's land or something. Shipping there is the same as AK.

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post
Awesome. Did I also catch that the discount is good on 2nd sub anytime in 1st year?
Correct. If you have the XS15se a second would be $699. Which, with my obvious bias included, is a *heck* of a deal..

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
What is that pink area in central Ca and NV? Is that no man's land or something. Shipping there is the same as AK.
5 days. Just a matter of the distribution hubs, ect. All in all I can't complain much about Fedex. I think our damage rate in around 0.3% (point three). We just negotiated better rates(again) and our "reps" go way out of their way to keep us happy.

We tried UPS, lasted about 1 week. Don't even ask me about them....total *cluster* in every imaginable sense.

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
5 days. Just a matter of the distribution hubs, ect. All in all I can't complain much about Fedex. I think our damage rate in around 0.3% (point three). We just negotiated better rates(again) and our "reps" go way out of their way to keep us happy.

We tried UPS, lasted about 1 week. Don't even ask me about them....total *cluster* in every imaginable sense.

Tom V.
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Oh the stories I could tell about UPS. I work in logistics and have helped companies do RFPs with UPS and FedEx. Had 1 client with serious damage issues and UPS would not pay for damaged goods always claiming it was due to "insufficient packaging". UPS offered to design new packaging in their packaging lab BUT maintained that they still would not pay any damage claims even though they had designed the package. the client decided FedEx would get their business. I've even had UPS come in with 2 separate proposals, one only being good for 24 hours, if the client couldn't decide to give them their business in that 24 hours they were stuck with the other proposal with higher costs.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post
All in all I am running 15db hotter than Audyssey wanted. But I love it!


15db is a lot....I think you may have a setup issue that you're trying to overcome with sheer power.

I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with your setup Wade. What sub(s)? Room dimensions? Equipment? Have you measured your response?

Until I got my quad XS15s positioned correctly, I was running 8-9db hot....now I only need 3db.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The Ysplitter going to both inputs simply raises the input level 3db. You could of achieved the same result by turning up the amp gain. The only benifit of using both inputs is if you have issue with the sub's auto on feature at lower volumes.
bh speaks the truth.

If you added the y-splitter post-Audyssey (or other room correction), you need to re-run it.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post


15db is a lot....I think you may have a setup issue that you're trying to overcome with sheer power.

I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with your setup Wade. What sub(s)? Room dimensions? Equipment? Have you measured your response?

Until I got my quad XS15s positioned correctly, I was running 8-9db hot....now I only need 3db.
After I made the 10db adjustment on the sub gain and played with more content I was able to remove the AVR boost.

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Old 07-28-2014, 11:02 AM
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Did you re-run Audyssey after boosting the subs gain? If not, you need to.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Correct. If you have the XS15se a second would be $699. Which, with my obvious bias included, is a *heck* of a deal..

Tom V.
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So the dual sub discount is typically right around 5% or so correct? What does PSA do for these people that start buying more than 2? Is it still the 5%?
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:22 PM
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Did you re-run Audyssey after boosting the subs gain? If not, you need to.
Yep, every little tweak and change made to your sub requires re-running Audyssey I wish it weren't true but it is. Does anybody else find running Audyssey tedious? I know its a great tool and all but to be honest I really hate doing it for some reason. Probably because with three kids in the house it's really hard to keep the house quiet long enough to run through eight times.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:55 PM
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So the dual sub discount is typically right around 5% or so correct? What does PSA do for these people that start buying more than 2? Is it still the 5%?
Usually it is 5%-10%. Depends a bit on several variables.

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Old 07-28-2014, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
That's about right, just depends on where folks live. We start by sending out a box for your amp. Then once we get that back, we reprogram it and send it back to you with the new SE 15" driver. So if you are say 2 days away.....figure 6 business days.


Here is a fedex ground map showing the transit times from our skunk works. Purple = 1 day, Blue = 2, Orange =3, Green = 4

Tom V.
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Cool. Thanks!
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Not sure if you have done this, but after reading some suggestions by Tom on the XS30, I went with a Y splitter to both inputs. It resulted in a big difference on my first edition XS30 for movies. Much more tactile response and pressurization that I was looking for.

Now the ongoing debate on upgrading the beast to an XS30se.....I really need to stop reading this thread

How do you like the Denon 4000 as a preamp? I have been eying that for my system as well.
Tom, do you recommend trying this? And if so why? I would love to be able to get more out of my XS30, as it sounds good but doesn't pressurize my small room like I thought it would. I have it corner loaded also.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The Ysplitter going to both inputs simply raises the input level 3db. You could of achieved the same result by turning up the amp gain. The only benifit of using both inputs is if you have issue with the sub's auto on feature at lower volumes.
Guess I should have read further down the thread...

My auto-on feature has never turned on/off... it just always stay's on... any idea? Would be nice if it worked.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:21 PM
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Tom, do you recommend trying this? And if so why? I would love to be able to get more out of my XS30, as it sounds good but doesn't pressurize my small room like I thought it would. I have it corner loaded also.
Using both inputs does not increase headroom (max output), it simply raises the output level 3db. It is the same thing as turning the sub amp gain up a notch or two, but it still does not give you more overall output. As I previously mentioned using both inputs with a Y adapter is good for those AVR's that have low output voltage. This will increase the input side sensitivity on the sub amp and the auto on function should work better for those that have issues. Another reason to use a Y would be if you have to turn the sub amp gain past 3:00 to get desireable bass output.

The majority of folks issue is auto calibration in the AVR tends to set the bass 3-6db lower then most like. I would set the amp gain
on your XS30 to 2:00, rerun calibration, the sub trim level in the AVR will probably be around -6db. Now manually increase the sub trim level up to around -2 then report back.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:22 PM
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Guess I should have read further down the thread...

My auto-on feature has never turned on/off... it just always stay's on... any idea? Would be nice if it worked.
Where is the gain set on the sub amp and where is the sub trim level set in the AVR? Also is the power switch is set in the middle?
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Did you re-run Audyssey after boosting the subs gain? If not, you need to.
I've tried this a hundred different ways. If I set the sub levels to match at 85db then Audyssey backs the trim all the way to -12. If I match them at 75db, then set the gain levels on the amps to the 85db after it runs, I'm happy with Audyssey's correction (which is -8.5db) I believe. I don't care if it's right or not, its the only way I like the sound.


If I match at 75db and bump the AVR sub levels up by 10db, it still doesn't sound as good as the 85db on the sub gains. Not sure why there is not parity between those two 10db adjustments, but there isn't, it just is not the same. I think the subs being so near-field messes with Audyssey calibration. At 75db sub level matching, it has the gain on the two subs to damn near off.

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