Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 439 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #13141 of 29818 Old 08-07-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh865 View Post
Hi Guys,

I've been reading this thread for a while now as I've got two XV15s, but this is my first time posting. I really enjoy the subs and recently got a MiniDSP to flatten the response and (I hope) make the sound even better. I know some of you have used a MiniDSP to EQ your subs, so I was hoping I could get some help doing the same.

I managed to get my response pretty flat using the MiniDSP and REW, but once I re-ran Audyssey XT32 (no SubEQ) everything got screwed up. I've attached a graph so you can see what I mean.

Should I have used the MiniDSP after running XT32? I thought I read that it's best to get the subs dialed in before running Audyssey, but I may be wrong about that.

Any other tips from those of you who have done this before would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Josh
Here is my two cents for what its worth. I think you are better served anlayzing a graph with your speakers playing. A large part of the eq process is the ability to tone down any large peaks, and smooth out the response in the crossover region with your main speakers. Above 50-60Hz or so, your response is going to look a lot different with your mains playing. This is the response you want to get as flat as possible after eq. I also agree that you should:

1) get your response as flat as possible prior to both audysey and the miniDSP. Do this by adjusting placement, phase, and even gain. I made big improvements in my FR by tweaking the gain on one of my subs a bit AFTER level matching them at the MLP. Got rid of a couple of dips and nulls. Adjust crossover as well in your AVR.

2) Run Audysey

3) Apply eq to your liking with miniDSP....house curves are helpful for lower level listening(i.e. -15 and lower)
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post #13142 of 29818 Old 08-07-2014, 08:01 PM
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Thanks so much for all of the help, guys. I really appreciate your feedback. I'll do the MiniDSP EQ after XT32 the next time around and see how that goes.

One other question: Audyssey sets the distance of one of my subs at 16.5 feet (sub 1) and the other at 9 feet (sub 2). To time align these, how should I set the receiver and MiniDSP delays? Should I set the receiver distance at 9 feet then add a delay to sub 1 so that the combined delay is 16.5 feet?

Thanks again for all the help.

Josh
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post #13143 of 29818 Old 08-07-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh865 View Post
Thanks so much for all of the help, guys. I really appreciate your feedback. I'll do the MiniDSP EQ after XT32 the next time around and see how that goes.

One other question: Audyssey sets the distance of one of my subs at 16.5 feet (sub 1) and the other at 9 feet (sub 2). To time align these, how should I set the receiver and MiniDSP delays? Should I set the receiver distance at 9 feet then add a delay to sub 1 so that the combined delay is 16.5 feet?

Thanks again for all the help.

Josh
you will need to run audyssey with the mini dsp in the signal chain, but do not use any eq till after the audyssey calibration is complete.
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post #13144 of 29818 Old 08-07-2014, 09:15 PM
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Josh,

If you have two subs, and your AVR will set individual distances for each you should be good to go.

If you ran Audyssey for each sub individually and those are the distances you came up with, then you will want to run Audyssey with both subs playing and then (after doing the sub distance tweak) add delay to the closer sub until you get the best response.
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post #13145 of 29818 Old 08-07-2014, 09:16 PM
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Following what other users have said, have mini dip in the signal chain when you run audy but do not use any filters. Once you have it audy calibrated, run REW and use that signal to generate a room eq that goes into dsp.

Are your xovers set to 60hz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh865 View Post
Hi Guys,

I've been reading this thread for a while now as I've got two XV15s, but this is my first time posting. I really enjoy the subs and recently got a MiniDSP to flatten the response and (I hope) make the sound even better. I know some of you have used a MiniDSP to EQ your subs, so I was hoping I could get some help doing the same.

I managed to get my response pretty flat using the MiniDSP and REW, but once I re-ran Audyssey XT32 (no SubEQ) everything got screwed up. I've attached a graph so you can see what I mean.

Should I have used the MiniDSP after running XT32? I thought I read that it's best to get the subs dialed in before running Audyssey, but I may be wrong about that.

Any other tips from those of you who have done this before would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Josh

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post #13146 of 29818 Old 08-07-2014, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
you will need to run audyssey with the mini dsp in the signal chain, but do not use any eq till after the audyssey calibration is complete.
bh is right here, because the MiniDSP will inherently add a slight amount of delay when in the chain.
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post #13147 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 07:22 AM
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The crossover is set at 80 Hz and my receiver won't set independent distances for the subs, so I'll delay the nearfield sub using the MiniDSP after running Audyssey.

Thanks again for the help, this is all very helpful info.

Josh
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post #13148 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 07:41 AM
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which miniDSP do you guys use?

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post #13149 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 09:46 AM
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I'm using the 2x4 with the Advanced 2-way plug-in.
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post #13150 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 11:54 AM
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Most of you guys using the USB Umiks? Or are some using the mics included with your system? Audyssey, McACC, YPAO for example?


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post #13151 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 12:10 PM
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From what I've read, the Audyssey-type mics aren't suitable for use with REW. I went with the UMM-6, but that was before the UMIK-1 was available.
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post #13152 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 12:17 PM
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My XS30 is still for sale.
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post #13153 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
From what I've read, the Audyssey-type mics aren't suitable for use with REW. I went with the UMM-6, but that was before the UMIK-1 was available.
I thought it was okay(like using a SPL meter) for lower volume FR checks...just not as accurate overall?

Also, we won't be shipping anything today(all sub orders last night and today will ship on Monday)...we're busy buttoning up a couple other projects..

Tom V.
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post #13154 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 01:22 PM
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miniDSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I'm using the 2x4 with the Advanced 2-way plug-in.
What would be the main difference from the basic MiniDSP 2x4 and the Advanced 2-way? Obviously a noobie question, but looks like something new and exciting. I have three subs right now...
Thanks in advance,
Russ
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post #13155 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 02:15 PM
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The MiniDSP 2x4 is the hardware, the Advanced 2-way plug-in is the software. You need both to be able to do anything with the DSP.
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post #13156 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I thought it was okay(like using a SPL meter) for lower volume FR checks...just not as accurate overall?

Also, we won't be shipping anything today(all sub orders last night and today will ship on Monday)...we're busy buttoning up a couple other projects..

Tom V.
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The dual 10's!!!!
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post #13157 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 05:27 PM
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The dual 10's!!!!
Wouldn't that be nice
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post #13158 of 29818 Old 08-08-2014, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Most of you guys using the USB Umiks? Or are some using the mics included with your system? Audyssey, McACC, YPAO for example?


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UMIK 1 here.
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post #13159 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 12:44 AM
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Guys I'm happy to report a very successful more than seamless integration of the XS15se into my 5.1 setup, it took about a week of moving my 120lb each mains and two subs around with in .5 of an inch ( I have major OCD ) to achieve the best combination of fidelity,finesse, agility and subterranean bass! The overall sound for both movies and music is breath taking, this is a testament of the quality bass the XS15se is capable of and I'm happy to report it has exceeded my expectation by miles. I'm not certain as to what the non SE version sounds like but this update ( close your ears Tom ) could've have easily warranted a justifiable price of well over a grand and I would have still considered it a screaming deal The method used to get the results where level matching the subs with XT32 + sub EQ the results are impressive on the ease of this for two different subs located in adjacent corners of the room, the results where as follows after Audyssey .

A gain setting on both well under 10 o'clock and post Audyssey level -9 db! ( I tend to favor a higher sub gain over pre/processor gain to avoid going over 0, besides any lower the subs would have been off )

A distance from MLP 16.5 for both subs

A confirmation via a DTS test disc showed Audyssey set them both down by 5db from the Raidioshack meters75db c- weighting, slow response! so I run them at -4db up 5 from the -9 setting.


As soon as the funds allow for the mic for measurements ( only as a I want to know why I'm hearing what i'm hearing cause I'm not touching a thing it sounds to good ) I'll post the results, as I've already did it the hard way moving it around with in inches in the the various locations available for placement and not to brag but its good to know I can still trust my ears.

Tom V. I know see why this seems to be the the sub you recommend most and while I'm sure you love all your children, I wont tell who I think your favorite just may be

Disclaimer the last part only applies to subs not kids

Gush over off to watch Dredd
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post #13160 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 10:53 AM
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Guys I'm happy to report a very successful more than seamless integration of the XS15se into my 5.1 setup, it took about a week of moving my 120lb each mains and two subs around with in .5 of an inch ( I have major OCD ) to achieve the best combination of fidelity,finesse, agility and subterranean bass! The overall sound for both movies and music is breath taking, this is a testament of the quality bass the XS15se is capable of and I'm happy to report it has exceeded my expectation by miles. I'm not certain as to what the non SE version sounds like but this update ( close your ears Tom ) could've have easily warranted a justifiable price of well over a grand and I would have still considered it a screaming deal The method used to get the results where level matching the subs with XT32 + sub EQ the results are impressive on the ease of this for two different subs located in adjacent corners of the room, the results where as follows after Audyssey .

A gain setting on both well under 10 o'clock and post Audyssey level -9 db! ( I tend to favor a higher sub gain over pre/processor gain to avoid going over 0, besides any lower the subs would have been off )

A distance from MLP 16.5 for both subs

A confirmation via a DTS test disc showed Audyssey set them both down by 5db from the Raidioshack meters75db c- weighting, slow response! so I run them at -4db up 5 from the -9 setting.


As soon as the funds allow for the mic for measurements ( only as a I want to know why I'm hearing what i'm hearing cause I'm not touching a thing it sounds to good ) I'll post the results, as I've already did it the hard way moving it around with in inches in the the various locations available for placement and not to brag but its good to know I can still trust my ears.

Tom V. I know see why this seems to be the the sub you recommend most and while I'm sure you love all your children, I wont tell who I think your favorite just may be

Disclaimer the last part only applies to subs not kids

Gush over off to watch Dredd
Congrats on the new subs!

As far as Toms favorite goes, I suspect everyone that buys a sub from PSA feels like they got his favorite model. I think it's because his favorite model changes depending on the room and situation, but I could be wrong
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post #13161 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 03:52 PM
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audiofan1: I'm so glad that you "kinda" liked the XS15se . While the "se" updates seem to have made significant strides in precision, especially for music, don't think for a moment that the original models weren't very capable subwoofers, especially for movie LFE.

Anyway, congratulations on your new toy and am looking forward to later reports.
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post #13162 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 04:56 PM
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The SE is where it's at. Anybody that owned a regular XV sub and has not experienced a SE upgrade does not know what they are missing. (Which may be a good thing for the pocket book )

Drussell, I am betting if you heard a SE, you would sell the SB13 and to fund one...just sayin.
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post #13163 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 05:31 PM
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LOL. No, I'd never sell my Ultra. However, I may be curious enough to have my XS30 modified .
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post #13164 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 05:43 PM
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just got my XV15 calibrated with my XS15se. i'll report back on how well my x4000's sub eq blends the two. crossing fingers for best of both worlds, otherwise i'll be trading in my XS for and XV15se.

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post #13165 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 09:18 PM
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LOL. No, I'd never sell my Ultra. However, I may be curious enough to have my XS30 modified .
No doubt you'd enjoy the SE version but since you have the XS30 handling HT duties and the SB13 for music your all set...I found the SE now gives me the best of both worlds.

Curiosity never hurt nobody...well except..maybe the cat...jk...
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post #13166 of 29818 Old 08-09-2014, 10:00 PM
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just got my XV15 calibrated with my XS15se. i'll report back on how well my x4000's sub eq blends the two. crossing fingers for best of both worlds, otherwise i'll be trading in my XS for and XV15se.
Cool keep us posted.
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post #13167 of 29818 Old 08-10-2014, 01:35 AM
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Need suggestion / input from the PSA members.. as I am seriously considering getting a PSA sub .. but unsure which one to get ported or sealed 15 or 30....

In my current setup I have a bic pl-200 sub... the room in which I will be setting up my HT is 12*15 on the second floor..attached a picture to show how the room looks like and it is open on one side..

My HT consists of 4 * Infinity Primus P363's , 2* Infinity Primus P163's & Infinity Primus PC351 & of course pl-200, Reciever: Yamaha RX-V575

I think recently the line up changed for PSA subs and the price too got increased.. can someone please just let me know what the old models were and what is the price increase.

Is it advisable to just get 1 sub now and add another later ?

I think it would not be a good idea to mix and match sub's ? so I have to get rid of my pl-200 sub ?

I need to get the slam in the chest kind of bass.. please let me know which one of the PSA's would do it.. I am not in the position of adding a dual right away... also completely noob at HTS and calibrating stuff... I just randomly calibrated my current HT according to my hearing...

Please let me know if any other details needed from me..

Thanks for suggestions..
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post #13168 of 29818 Old 08-10-2014, 02:29 AM
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^^ Your room size is a bit over 1,800 cu. ft (medium size room), however, it is wide open to another room and since a sub fills that entire open space, you probably have 3,000 cu. ft. or over (close to a large size room). It's no surprise that the PL-200 couldn't fill that volume.

PSA upgraded the driver to their Power-X lineup and reworked the DSP giving the amplifier more wattage. This was NOT a minor update. The precision advantage of the "se" drivers are easily noticeable for all who have made the switch, while the price increase was only $100, which is minimal for the performance increase.

Getting one sub now with the plan of another when funds are available is a wise move. I will assume that you found the right location of your BIC by doing the subwoofer crawl. I will also assume that at your listening position you got good, even response (no peaks or valleys). If that is correct, then you already know where to place the PSA sub when you get it. Who knows? It may be the only sub you'll need.

You are correct, it is not a good idea to mix and match a budget sub with a high performance sub. As far as which PSA to get, I'd talk to Tom Vodhanel at PSA. But by the size of your combined rooms, I'd say you are looking at the ported XV15se.
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post #13169 of 29818 Old 08-10-2014, 02:42 AM
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^^^^ I'll second the XV15se and plan a second down the road!
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post #13170 of 29818 Old 08-10-2014, 09:58 AM
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^^^^ I'll second the XV15se and plan a second down the road!
You running the dxd and xv together?

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