Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 443 - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar MIX_MASTER_ICE 02:03 PM 08-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Is the bass more balanced in other parts of your room? The new sub may be exciting a mode that the Outlaw didn't, causing a new null to crop up.

If you had REW we would know.
I've tried the sub in two other locations and it was worse. I placed the XV15se on my couch and did the sub crawl and the corner the sub is in right now had the best response.

basshead81's Avatar basshead81 02:08 PM 08-12-2014
Are you planning on setting the sub amp gain to 2:00 and rerunning audyssey? The fact that movies seem anemic and music is overpowering tells me you have a big null around 30-40hz or a big peak around 80hz. Another possible issue is something in the signal chain. What sources are you using for movies and music?
audiofan1's Avatar audiofan1 02:41 PM 08-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Okay, here's my Audyssey results with XV15se set to 12 o'clock. I ran it from 3 positions on the main couch.
Speakers= small
XO= 70hz
levels= L-7, C-6, R-6, SR-12, SL-12, sub-6. Note that the surround speakers are on the wall directly behind the couch, so they are close.
distance (feet)= L 11, C 8, R 9, SR 2, SL 2, sub 13

I bumped up the center +3 and the sub +6.
Test material, movie= Rambo, final battle scene. Music= George Strait, The Fireman.
With dynamic EQ off. Movie= weak response. Music= a little weak
With dynamic EQ on. Movie= weak response Music= good, but not great

Audyssey results with XV15se set to 2 o'clock. Same seating positions
speakers= small
XO= 80Hz
levels= L-6, C-6, R-6, SR-12, SL-12, sub-15.
distance (feet)= L 11, C 8, R 9, SR 2, SL 2, sub 13

I bumped up the center +3 and the sub +6.
With dynamic EQ off. Movie= a little weak. Music= pretty good
With dynamic EQ on. Movie= better, but not enough. Music= a little too much bass

Now how this rates is in comparison to the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, which should be no match for the XV15se. My point I was making earlier is I can keep increasing the sub level to get good response for movies, but this totally over does it for music.
Is there a reason the front left and right speakers are offset by 2ft? can they be setup equidistant from the MLP? I would suggest getting your mains setup correctly if possible and going from there, as it can go along way for the rest off the sound of your setup including 5.1 or however many speakers your running. Set them up with Audyssey off with stereo music and get the best sound possible , manually put in distance settings and position them moving back forward side to side till your satisfied with the best image in the middle with a degree of spaciousness between them to your liking. Now turn on the sub with audyssey still off and play around with the 80hz or so crossover and tweaking the distance manually and also moving the sub back and forth towards and away from the wall or boundaries till you get the bass integration you like with stereo music still playing, yes this will take some time but well worth the effort so hang in there , here's a bit more! If and when you tilt your head up or down forward of backwards you get a result you like ( i.e better midbass, highs or tactile sensation from the bass) do push forward or backwards your mlp while the music is playing. After this is done and your satisfied with the sound now your ready for Audyssey, and here mic placement is very critical as you have already determined what sounds good if your main speaker are now equidistant using only one mic position ( only the 1st and then calculate and view the results) as it determines distance which is extremely important to the overall system balance, if you find you need to move the mic back or forth to achieve a somewhat similar setting to the one you manually put in . This for me has never failed over many years of system setup and when I got my first pre with Audyssey what do you know, the same rules apply and my Audyssey runs are as follows.

FR/FL distance 12.8 for both with level setting of -2.5

Center distance 11.8 with a level setting -4.0

SL distance 12.5 and a level setting of 2.5 ( its that far away)

SR distance 8.1 and a level setting of 1.0

Sub 1 distance 16.5 and a level setting of -9.5
Sub 2 distance 16.5 and a level setting of -9.5

As a side note these are different subs one being the XS15se and the other a DXD12012.

Hope this helps a bit and good luck
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar MIX_MASTER_ICE 05:05 PM 08-12-2014
The left front speaker is further away than the right, due to the room arrangement, so that is correct.

Tom V helped me out with this issue, but unfortunately it couldn't be solved correctly. He's a great guy and even offered to send me a gain box free of charge. No doubt the XV15se is a great sub and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend PSA subs to anyone in the market for a quality product and great customer service.
digler84's Avatar digler84 05:16 PM 08-12-2014
seems you said you ran audessey for only 3 positions. is this correct? if i were you, i would take the time to properly use the system and run it for all positions. i would also mess with the gain until you get just less that the max negative value that audessey will set the system at. i.e., if the max negative is -15, i would try to get it around -12 or so, then bump it by 5 or 6. if it maxes at -15 then you need to lower the gain and try again as it could be -100 for all you know but it's capping it. again, i think you are not doing yourself any favors if you are only running audessey in 3 spots considering i think the full amount is 8. once i did all 8 with my system it made a huge difference with the blending. the system is trying to compensate for different areas of your room and if you don't move the mic around then you aren't giving the tool the ability to do it's job. there is a reason it's designed to measure a certain number of areas....take the time and do it right and you might be surprised how much it affects the room.
MIX_MASTER_ICE's Avatar MIX_MASTER_ICE 05:37 PM 08-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
seems you said you ran audessey for only 3 positions. is this correct? if i were you, i would take the time to properly use the system and run it for all positions. i would also mess with the gain until you get just less that the max negative value that audessey will set the system at. i.e., if the max negative is -15, i would try to get it around -12 or so, then bump it by 5 or 6. if it maxes at -15 then you need to lower the gain and try again as it could be -100 for all you know but it's capping it. again, i think you are not doing yourself any favors if you are only running audessey in 3 spots considering i think the full amount is 8. once i did all 8 with my system it made a huge difference with the blending. the system is trying to compensate for different areas of your room and if you don't move the mic around then you aren't giving the tool the ability to do it's job. there is a reason it's designed to measure a certain number of areas....take the time and do it right and you might be surprised how much it affects the room.
The 2EQ on my Onkyo only goes up to 3 positions. Anyways, the case is closed on this one.
climber07's Avatar climber07 07:51 PM 08-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
The 2EQ on my Onkyo only goes up to 3 positions. Anyways, the case is closed on this one.
My Onkyo has two settings for audio optimization. Music and movies. I had to set it for music for 2 channel input and movies for 5.1. The movie setting is too boomy on music but just right for movies.
FattyMcButterPants 09:50 PM 08-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
The left front speaker is further away than the right, due to the room arrangement, so that is correct.

Tom V helped me out with this issue, but unfortunately it couldn't be solved correctly. He's a great guy and even offered to send me a gain box free of charge. No doubt the XV15se is a great sub and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend PSA subs to anyone in the market for a quality product and great customer service.
Never heard of Tom not being able to solve the problem. Guess there's a first time for everything!
wadec22's Avatar wadec22 10:03 PM 08-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
There's all kinds of stuff going on to shape our FR to our targets. There's really nothing I can "define" or offer a "slope" though. A little of this, a little of that....shaping the bottom end is like perfecting a great steak recipe..
Could Audyssey affect any of that "steak recipe" in a negative way?
Magibeg's Avatar Magibeg 11:55 AM 08-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
The 2EQ on my Onkyo only goes up to 3 positions. Anyways, the case is closed on this one.
Something interesting I want to put into the conversation.

It sounds like I went through the exact same issues as you did with my Onkyo receiver (707 model) and Odyssey. I had very poor bass for the most part, then other content would be too much bass. My issues personally were fixed with a Y-cable (which i know you have already done).

Perhaps this could be a potential issue between the lower end Onkyo receivers and the XV15se subwoofer?

I still have the occasional issue where the subwoofer doesn't seem to wake up properly and my bass level is noticeably lower than normal.

Just a thought, or maybe I'm just crazy
climber07's Avatar climber07 12:12 PM 08-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post
Could Audyssey affect any of that "steak recipe" in a negative way?
Even though you asked Tom's advice, which is vastly more extensive than mine, I would like to say yes it can.

Audyssey's room correction software is an exceptional product. There are other tweaks and settings, that I am still learning, that can adversely effect your sound. Setting like dynamic volume, dynamic EQ, music and movie audio curves, music optimizer, and the like will all play a key role in determining your FR and sound quality. Most of these can be enabled at the same time, causing some weird things to happen. I've spent around 40 - 50 man hours changing everything from phase, to sub amp gain, to AVR sub gain, to the settings listed. All at different times and with different content. Sometimes, folks get lucky with a plug and play default setting in their room environment. Some of us have to work and play with the settings, learning their peculiarities as we go, to get our desired end result.
wadec22's Avatar wadec22 06:59 PM 08-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Even though you asked Tom's advice, which is vastly more extensive than mine, I would like to say yes it can.

Audyssey's room correction software is an exceptional product. There are other tweaks and settings, that I am still learning, that can adversely effect your sound. Setting like dynamic volume, dynamic EQ, music and movie audio curves, music optimizer, and the like will all play a key role in determining your FR and sound quality. Most of these can be enabled at the same time, causing some weird things to happen. I've spent around 40 - 50 man hours changing everything from phase, to sub amp gain, to AVR sub gain, to the settings listed. All at different times and with different content. Sometimes, folks get lucky with a plug and play default setting in their room environment. Some of us have to work and play with the settings, learning their peculiarities as we go, to get our desired end result.
Good stuff, but I was more speaking just to the actual calibration and how it adjust the curves.
climber07's Avatar climber07 07:38 PM 08-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post
Good stuff, but I was more speaking just to the actual calibration and how it adjust the curves.
I'd wager, unless something goes wrong during measurements, that Audyssey will always be an improvement over no correction at all.
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 08:41 PM 08-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I've spent around 40 - 50 man hours changing everything from phase, to sub amp gain, to AVR sub gain, to the settings listed. All at different times and with different content.
Wuss.






ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 09:00 PM 08-13-2014
Just wanted to let all know that I sent my four XV15SEs back Monday morning and Jim said they were all sold by Tuesday evening, somebody got a really good deal on my subs as they were practically out of box, seriously. The XV15SEs must be selling like hot cakes. So far so good with the XS30SEs, still working to get the ideal sound.
Just a quick question, anybody have good results with gain matching their subs by placing in the middle of room away from all boundaries and mic (SPL) 2-3" from center of driver and repeating with the rest of your subs in the exact same position as the first one measured? I've been reading a lot of good results with this method or is level matching the preferred method. TIA
Cheers Jeff
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 10:02 PM 08-13-2014
I prefer gain matching (as you know).
climber07's Avatar climber07 11:18 PM 08-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Wuss.





Cyborg_Optoma's Avatar Cyborg_Optoma 09:20 AM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Just wanted to let all know that I sent my four XV15SEs back Monday morning and Jim said they were all sold by Tuesday evening, somebody got a really good deal on my subs as they were practically out of box, seriously. The XV15SEs must be selling like hot cakes. So far so good with the XS30SEs, still working to get the ideal sound.
Just a quick question, anybody have good results with gain matching their subs by placing in the middle of room away from all boundaries and mic (SPL) 2-3" from center of driver and repeating with the rest of your subs in the exact same position as the first one measured? I've been reading a lot of good results with this method or is level matching the preferred method. TIA
Cheers Jeff


Hi -

I think I am solely dependent now on your observation or kind of review or comparison between XS30SE & XV15SE.. but it might be hard for you too.. as you had 4 15SE's.. how many 30SE's did you get ?

I was earlier straight away going for XS30SEs... but seems like many people from this thread.. if I am getting it correctly have got XV15SE.. and its multiples.. either the SE or the prior version...

I am unable to decide which one to get either XS30SE or XV15SE .... if I get XV15SE .. I will certainly have to get another one soon ... I was going for XS30SE.. thinking it would not make me upgrade anytime sooner.. may be at the very end of the first year to get the discount.. but again it is a lot of money...

decisions.. please help me out.. guys.. Thanks
Gorilla Killa's Avatar Gorilla Killa 10:54 AM 08-14-2014
Right now its frees hipping both ways, get an xv15 and if your not happy send it back and get the xv30. cant really lose like that
Gorilla Killa's Avatar Gorilla Killa 10:56 AM 08-14-2014
also, go the PSA site and chat online with, Tom, ive never not found him there between 10-6 7 days a week
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 11:23 AM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg_Optoma View Post
Hi -

I think I am solely dependent now on your observation or kind of review or comparison between XS30SE & XV15SE.. but it might be hard for you too.. as you had 4 15SE's.. how many 30SE's did you get ?

I was earlier straight away going for XS30SEs... but seems like many people from this thread.. if I am getting it correctly have got XV15SE.. and its multiples.. either the SE or the prior version...

I am unable to decide which one to get either XS30SE or XV15SE .... if I get XV15SE .. I will certainly have to get another one soon ... I was going for XS30SE.. thinking it would not make me upgrade anytime sooner.. may be at the very end of the first year to get the discount.. but again it is a lot of money...

decisions.. please help me out.. guys.. Thanks
Obviously many prefer the ported subs here, myself I was spoiled with the Triax and have been chasing that sound and extension ever since so I went with the XS30SEs. It is dependent on your room size and how you listen, do you do HT or music or both. I have found with the SE version drivers even in the ported designs to do very well with music and HT. Like I said I sent my four XV15SEs back on Monday and they were all sold by Tuesday. I don't think there is a better value out there than the XV15SE and yes I prefer the SE version driver and amp tweak (more power). You really can't go wrong with either the XV15SE or the XV30SE especially with free shipping both ways, if you're like the rest of us lunatics here you will get a second sub no matter what you buy, be it sealed or vented. Tom or Jim can really help you decide, just try the chat feature. The XS30SE has it's advantages in the lower end and will have more output down low as well and more output than a single XV15SE, but believe me the XV15Se is no slouch when it comes to output. I didn't need four XV15SEs, I ended up stacking them in each corner for the best sound and output, unbelievable, but it just defeated the purpose of having quad subs, this was like having duals on steroids and I didn't like the appearance. I have at least two XS30SEs right now and will leave it at that, and I am thrilled so far with them. Just chat with Tom, like I said he will take care of you, you may want to start with with dual XS15SEs, these are hidden gems. Hope this helps.
Cheers Jeff
JT78681's Avatar JT78681 11:32 AM 08-14-2014
^^^^

I would think the XV15se has the advantage 16-30hz, but above 30hz and below 16 the edge would go to the XS30se. If one really favors movies over music that 16-30hz is pretty important.
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 11:33 AM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I prefer gain matching (as you know).
I'm going to do the gain matching today Alan, according to Craig John I should do one driver on each sub with meter about 2-3" away and try to achieve a reading of 88dB for one driver of each sub placed in the exact same spot as the first. Then when put into position hopefully achieve an output of 72-78dB from each sub, if not repeat process until I do, then run a quick Audyssey one mic spot to achieve a -3 to 8dB and then run full auto calibration. Sound right to you. Right now I have them all level matched and really happy with results but I know I can do better and intend to do so. They are running too hot right now according to Audyssey quick start, I'm getting -13 on the sub trims, it's pretty amazing how accurate Audyssey can be with distances and levels, should have used this capability a lot sooner
Cheers my friend, Jeffrey
Cyborg_Optoma's Avatar Cyborg_Optoma 11:42 AM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
also, go the PSA site and chat online with, Tom, ive never not found him there between 10-6 7 days a week
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Obviously many prefer the ported subs here, myself I was spoiled with the Triax and have been chasing that sound and extension ever since so I went with the XS30SEs. It is dependent on your room size and how you listen, do you do HT or music or both. I have found with the SE version drivers even in the ported designs to do very well with music and HT. Like I said I sent my four XV15SEs back on Monday and they were all sold by Tuesday. I don't think there is a better value out there than the XV15SE and yes I prefer the SE version driver and amp tweak (more power). You really can't go wrong with either the XV15SE or the XV30SE especially with free shipping both ways, if you're like the rest of us lunatics here you will get a second sub no matter what you buy, be it sealed or vented. Tom or Jim can really help you decide, just try the chat feature. The XS30SE has it's advantages in the lower end and will have more output down low as well and more output than a single XV15SE, but believe me the XV15Se is no slouch when it comes to output. I didn't need four XV15SEs, I ended up stacking them in each corner for the best sound and output, unbelievable, but it just defeated the purpose of having quad subs, this was like having duals on steroids and I didn't like the appearance. I have at least two XS30SEs right now and will leave it at that, and I am thrilled so far with them. Just chat with Tom, like I said he will take care of you, you may want to start with with dual XS15SEs, these are hidden gems. Hope this helps.
Cheers Jeff


Thanks guys... I think I have to try it out like you are suggesting..

I agree Jeff .. that we will end up getting another sub down the road.. no matter what it is..

just curious.. as many people are trying out subs.. and some may be even returning it.. does it mean we will be getting a used sub ? and it can also have some cosmetic usage ? or is it that our professional PSA team will make it new again and send it out to the new buyer... just curious...

Thanks
JT78681's Avatar JT78681 11:48 AM 08-14-2014
Does anyone know when Ricci will be reviewing the XS30se and XV15se? I thought it was supposed to be sometime in the near future?
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 11:50 AM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg_Optoma View Post
Thanks guys... I think I have to try it out like you are suggesting..

I agree Jeff .. that we will end up getting another sub down the road.. no matter what it is..

just curious.. as many people are trying out subs.. and some may be even returning it.. does it mean we will be getting a used sub ? and it can also have some cosmetic usage ? or is it that our professional PSA team will make it new again and send it out to the new buyer... just curious...

Thanks

You will not be getting a used sub unless you buy one from the Outlet Center, these are usually returned subs, so rest assured you will be getting new. Mine were sold in one day as B-Stock.
Cyborg_Optoma's Avatar Cyborg_Optoma 12:17 PM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
You will not be getting a used sub unless you buy one from the Outlet Center, these are usually returned subs, so rest assured you will be getting new. Mine were sold in one day as B-Stock.


Thanks..got the same answer from Tom.. seems like a stupid question from me..
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 12:35 PM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg_Optoma View Post
Thanks..got the same answer from Tom.. seems like a stupid question from me..
There are no stupid questions here my friend, just uninformed ones, did Tom give you any advice on which route to take?
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 01:31 PM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
I'm going to do the gain matching today Alan, according to Craig John I should do one driver on each sub with meter about 2-3" away and try to achieve a reading of 88dB for one driver of each sub placed in the exact same spot as the first. Then when put into position hopefully achieve an output of 72-78dB from each sub, if not repeat process until I do, then run a quick Audyssey one mic spot to achieve a -3 to 8dB and then run full auto calibration. Sound right to you. Right now I have them all level matched and really happy with results but I know I can do better and intend to do so. They are running too hot right now according to Audyssey quick start, I'm getting -13 on the sub trims, it's pretty amazing how accurate Audyssey can be with distances and levels, should have used this capability a lot sooner
Cheers my friend, Jeffrey
Yup, that is the correct procedure for gain matching.

Yup, Audyssey is good.

Your Audyssey must be different than mine (XT). The lower limit on mine is -12db.

Why do you refuse to tell us how many 30s you got?? We won't tease you anymore....I swear.
Saturn94's Avatar Saturn94 09:08 PM 08-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Obviously many prefer the ported subs here, myself I was spoiled with the Triax and have been chasing that sound and extension ever since so I went with the XS30SEs. It is dependent on your room size and how you listen, do you do HT or music or both. I have found with the SE version drivers even in the ported designs to do very well with music and HT. Like I said I sent my four XV15SEs back on Monday and they were all sold by Tuesday. I don't think there is a better value out there than the XV15SE and yes I prefer the SE version driver and amp tweak (more power). You really can't go wrong with either the XV15SE or the XV30SE especially with free shipping both ways, if you're like the rest of us lunatics here you will get a second sub no matter what you buy, be it sealed or vented. Tom or Jim can really help you decide, just try the chat feature. The XS30SE has it's advantages in the lower end and will have more output down low as well and more output than a single XV15SE, but believe me the XV15Se is no slouch when it comes to output. I didn't need four XV15SEs, I ended up stacking them in each corner for the best sound and output, unbelievable, but it just defeated the purpose of having quad subs, this was like having duals on steroids and I didn't like the appearance. I have at least two XS30SEs right now and will leave it at that, and I am thrilled so far with them. Just chat with Tom, like I said he will take care of you, you may want to start with with dual XS15SEs, these are hidden gems. Hope this helps.
Cheers Jeff
Yeah, so what's with the secret about how many XS30se's you bought? Spill the beans!

I'm also curious, if you've been chasing the Triax sub sound, why did you get rid of it in the first place? I'm enjoying my Triax as I type this.
Tags: Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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