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Old 08-21-2014, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
Unless the mains and the subs have the same phase shift throughout the freqs, changing the pose on the subs will only shift the null to a different frequency band. The mains will most likely have to be set at 80 - 100 hz without active correction from a DSP that is customized by the listener.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
PS I am not worried about total output right now. The way REW has me calibrating I am at -40 on my receiver instead of -20 like normal.

Got you the one last graph
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Unless the mains and the subs have the same phase shift throughout the freqs, changing the pose on the subs will only shift the null to a different frequency band. The mains will most likely have to be set at 80 - 100 hz without active correction from a DSP that is customized by the listener.
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced null the response would of never changed.
One other thing, should I have Audyssey turned off?

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Old 08-21-2014, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
I think if he did the sub distance tweak it would really help the sub/main integration.

I posted a link to it a few posts ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/redire...t%25202013.pdf
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
One other thing, should I have Audyssey turned off?
Yes start with audyssey off, get the response the best you can by trying different placement, phase, and crossover settings, then run audyssey after everything else has been done.

I still am curious to see what the response looks like with the mains set large and the subs phase reversed. Jim Farina mentioned this several posts back...He knows far more about this stuff then I do.
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I think if he did the sub distance tweak it would really help the sub/main integration.

I posted a link to it a few posts ago.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Oct%202013.pdf
Yes i am sure it would...again it takes all of 5seconds to flip the phase on the subs and remeasure. If that does nothing then I say proceed to the sub distance tweak.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
I hear ya. I had a heck of a time getting my setup right. The frequency to phase curve was different between the mains and the subs. No matter what I did phase wise, I still had a null. The only thing that changed was the frequency of the null. I ended up having to set my mains at 80Hz. I still have a dip, but I think it may be the room. I have limited placement options. My MLP is in a sweet spot. If I stand up and move two to three feet forward, I hear NO bass at all... LOL

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Old 08-22-2014, 02:57 PM
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The wwz grenade sweep is definitely my single favorite scene of all time. I play that thing on a loop sometimes, completely insane at reference levels.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:07 PM
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ahblaza - I have some experience with REW and umik from setting up 3 xs30se' in my living room. I may not be as experienced as bh or bear but can try to help in setting up multiple subs.
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BH, I'm sorry I got you confused with bear 123, we PM'd a lot about this REW and miniDSP and UMIK and all accessories, so I'll just add him to list as well whom I will be driving crazy with all this measuring stuff. I'm telling you both up front I know nothing about any of this, I have been reading a lot, I think I know what to download first and so forth, I THINK. I'm not buying anything until I at least get REW downloaded and any programs I need to get started. That in it's self is going to be a chore, I'm that inexperienced with programs and downloading stuff, I'm not ashamed to admit it, so I expect you guys to be very considerate of that fact and don't laugh at my stupid questions which will be many
Cheers Jeff
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I hear ya. I had a heck of a time getting my setup right. The frequency to phase curve was different between the mains and the subs. No matter what I did phase wise, I still had a null. The only thing that changed was the frequency of the null. I ended up having to set my mains at 80Hz. I still have a dip, but I think it may be the room. I have limited placement options. My MLP is in a sweet spot. If I stand up and move two to three feet forward, I hear NO bass at all... LOL

Clim, that's pretty crazy, never heard that before. Sold my single Triax because every seat in the house had max output except the MLP. L&R of the MLP was tons of sound, dB level varied by 5-6dB between the left and right of the MLP, could not fix it, found out that multiples was the only cure. Well new laptop on the way and Jim has given me a lot of studying to do over the weekend to learn this DSP REW stuff, he even said he was going to test me on Monday and I said I will cheat anyway, just kidding.
Cheers Jeff
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post
ahblaza - I have some experience with REW and umik from setting up 3 xs30se' in my living room. I may not be as experienced as bh or bear but can try to help in setting up multiple subs.
Fly, that would be great, you might be sorry that you offered after you see some of my questions, at this point I'm only interested in my XS30SEs, as I will be getting all new speakers. I'm still debating on the third XS30SE. I will be in touch and thanks again for the offer.
Cheers Jeff
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:23 PM
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Audio

Is anybody having trouble with the audio in this section of the mini DSP site:
http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...inidsp-concept
I can't get any sound and would like to hear this clip, tried Youtube and same thing.TIA
Cheers Jeff
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Is anybody having trouble with the audio in this section of the mini DSP site:
http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...inidsp-concept
I can't get any sound and would like to hear this clip, tried Youtube and same thing.TIA
Cheers Jeff

lol, when I got the mini I was pissed I couldn't get the sound, and it still not working. I can tell you the REW was more challenging (for me) than the miniDSP plugin. Its really self explanatory when you open it up. its pretty simple to use.
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Old 08-22-2014, 04:49 PM
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Measured each sub separate right in front and back by MLP. The 70Hz dip isn't as bad at distance. Audyssey is off now, all speakers set to small and crossed at 80.
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:37 PM
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OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ
Sounds to me like you have a room induced null. The nulls will move around the room depending on the frequency. The wavelength is bouncing back from the walls and cancelling out at that freq right at your MLP.

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Old 08-22-2014, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.
Good idea man.

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Old 08-22-2014, 06:58 PM
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+1








Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.

I try this now, but I was in a chat session with PSA when I was posting this stuff. They guy from PSA thought the Sub EQ in my Denon X4000 would take care of that. He also asked me to rerun the REW with just the speakers and no subs. Doing that now.

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Old 08-22-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I try this now, but I was in a chat session with PSA when I was posting this stuff. They guy from PSA thought the Sub EQ in my Denon X4000 would take care of that. He also asked me to rerun the REW with just the speakers and no subs. Doing that now.
Cool.

My denon 4311 has that too and it really helped.
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:49 PM
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OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ


Wow, I just went to rerun my tests and this graph was center channel only.


Been playing for about 5 minutes. For some reason when I run REW it is only using the Center Channel now. Every since I recalibrated with audyssey

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Old 08-22-2014, 09:00 PM
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Good Evening,
Long time reader, first time poster. I got my PSA XV15SE yesterday and I have been playing with it tonight. I have a couple of questions that I know I have seen the answers posted, but yet can't really find them when I am looking for them.
First, when I run Audyssey, it sets the cross over on all of my speakers to 40 hz. I have all ARX speakers: A5 fronts, A2RX-C center, and A1B surrounds.
1) Should I go back in afterwards and manually adjust to 80 Hz?
2) The level setting for the Sub sets to -4.5. I recall seeing that a lot of people run their subs "hot". So, do you adjust the level from the AVR up or adjust the Gain?


I moved the sub closer to the corner, which helped a little, as I had it about 3 feet away from the front corner wall. Now its about 8 inches or so away.


Any input for a beginner would be great.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:07 PM
 
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Good Evening,
Long time reader, first time poster. I got my PSA XV15SE yesterday and I have been playing with it tonight. I have a couple of questions that I know I have seen the answers posted, but yet can't really find them when I am looking for them.
First, when I run Audyssey, it sets the cross over on all of my speakers to 40 hz. I have all ARX speakers: A5 fronts, A2RX-C center, and A1B surrounds.
1) Should I go back in afterwards and manually adjust to 80 Hz?
2) The level setting for the Sub sets to -4.5. I recall seeing that a lot of people run their subs "hot". So, do you adjust the level from the AVR up or adjust the Gain?


I moved the sub closer to the corner, which helped a little, as I had it about 3 feet away from the front corner wall. Now its about 8 inches or so away.


Any input for a beginner would be great.

1 ... manually set speakers to small and try 80 or 100 hz out...


after moving the sub re run aud.. -4.5 is not bad .. run it hot by bumping up the level in the avr but not passed 0 or so.. a setting by aud at -9 is better..


enjoy the sub..


cheers..
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:09 PM
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Yes, set all speakers to small/80hz.

If you want to run your sub hot, adjust the trim in the AVR not the gain on the sub.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ


you want to manually set all speakers to small... not large.. so you can pick your own crossover .. eg 80 or 100hz..


large will run the speakers full range.. small will work better with the subs


cheers
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:43 PM
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I can't set the speakers to "small" on my Onkyo receiver, it just asks about what Impedance to set them to, and that's about it besides the crossover settings.
What about when Audyssey asks to set the Sub DB setting to 75 at the beginning. I have to turn the gain down to at or slightly below "noon" to get to the 75 db that it's asking for before the self calibration starts. Should I ignore this and leave it at the 1 to 2 O'clock setting?
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
you want to manually set all speakers to small... not large.. so you can pick your own crossover .. eg 80 or 100hz..


large will run the speakers full range.. small will work better with the subs


cheers


For some reason the computer itself changed out of a 7.1 config so I had to redo it's settings.

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Old 08-22-2014, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.


I am pretty much giving up. I moved my subs all around the room, moved my mains backwards, forwards, sideways and laying down. The dip was best back towards the wall. I just need some any more suggestions on what to try. I have heard about venting risers, and what about my bass traps, should I take those down. I can't obsess over the lack of perfection and that is what I will do so I need some other suggestions.


P.S. I read the distance tweak and that didn't make sense to me. I did turn my phase nobs with the REW running and they were loudest where the phases set with Audyssey.

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