Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 446 - AVS Forum
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post #13351 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Looks like you are defiantly missing bass in the 60-90hz region.

Can you move the subs at all?

Did you try the Audyssey sub distance tweak?

I don't think this has anything to do with the sub, but everything to do with your room/placement.

What is the audyssey sub tweak..

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post #13352 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Farina View Post
The large dip from 65Hz to 100Hz is preventing that hard hitting chest thump.

Are you measuring just the subwoofers or are the mains also on? You either have a large room induced null or the subs are out of phase with the mains. If the mains were running, try rotating the phase control 180deg from where they are now.

Since I have the subs with the crossover set to 100Hz, would that matter?

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post #13353 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
Since I have the subs with the crossover set to 100Hz, would that matter?
Yes. The crossover for your mains is most likely causing phase cancellation of the subs. Try changing the crossover to 80 then re-measure. Then try 120 and re-measure. If the dip changes accordingly, that is your culprit.
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post #13354 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
What is the audyssey sub tweak..
It is a procedure for integrated your sub and mains better. Really smoothed out my graph around the crossover setting.

It used to be an article that you could download from here but since the "upgrade" I can no longer find it. I have it saved as a PDF and will try to attach it here.


Edit, it is too large to attach.


PM me your email address and I will send it to you.
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post #13355 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
It is a procedure for integrated your sub and mains better. Really smoothed out my graph around the crossover setting.

It used to be an article that you could download from here but since the "upgrade" I can no longer find it. I have it saved as a PDF and will try to attach it here.


Edit, it is too large to attach.


PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

Found the link

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/redire...t%25202013.pdf

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post #13356 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Yes. The crossover for your mains is most likely causing phase cancellation of the subs. Try changing the crossover to 80 then re-measure. Then try 120 and re-measure. If the dip changes accordingly, that is your culprit.
OK, I set my crossovers at 80, 100, 120 and 150. Here they are.

So do I change my sub position or what?
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post #13357 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I set my crossovers at 80, 100, 120 and 150. Here they are.

So do I change my sub position or what?
What did you change between these graphs and the first you posted? There is no null present on these graphs, but the first graph you posted was a grand canyon size null...had to of sounded terrible!!
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post #13358 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
What did you change between these graphs and the first you posted? There is no null present on these graphs, but the first graph you posted was a grand canyon size null...had to of sounded terrible!!

For some reason I didn't set my receiver back to small for my mains, they were at large. All the ones after had the mains at small.


Sent you a PM with the following.



How do you eliminate it. I have moved the subs closer together on each side of the CC, then right next to each other for 1 giant sub in the front left, and now I just tried front left and rear right. All changes in that order. It all got progressively worse in that range. I have several charts posted in the PSA forum.

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post #13359 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 08:45 PM
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If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
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post #13360 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.

I am fine with the mains set to small. which selection on REW for the graphs you are talking about? Also, gotta spend time with company right now. I will pick up tomorrow.


Thanks,

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post #13361 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
Unless the mains and the subs have the same phase shift throughout the freqs, changing the pose on the subs will only shift the null to a different frequency band. The mains will most likely have to be set at 80 - 100 hz without active correction from a DSP that is customized by the listener.
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post #13362 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
If you are trying to get rid of the dip when the mains are set Large, I would reverse the phase 180 degress on both of your subs and remeasure.


Also we need some normal graphs with the proper axis. 5db incriments on the verticle and 15-200hz on the horizontal.
PS I am not worried about total output right now. The way REW has me calibrating I am at -40 on my receiver instead of -20 like normal.

Got you the one last graph
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post #13363 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
Unless the mains and the subs have the same phase shift throughout the freqs, changing the pose on the subs will only shift the null to a different frequency band. The mains will most likely have to be set at 80 - 100 hz without active correction from a DSP that is customized by the listener.
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
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post #13364 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced null the response would of never changed.
One other thing, should I have Audyssey turned off?

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post #13365 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
I think if he did the sub distance tweak it would really help the sub/main integration.

I posted a link to it a few posts ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/redire...t%25202013.pdf
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post #13366 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
One other thing, should I have Audyssey turned off?
Yes start with audyssey off, get the response the best you can by trying different placement, phase, and crossover settings, then run audyssey after everything else has been done.

I still am curious to see what the response looks like with the mains set large and the subs phase reversed. Jim Farina mentioned this several posts back...He knows far more about this stuff then I do.
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post #13367 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I think if he did the sub distance tweak it would really help the sub/main integration.

I posted a link to it a few posts ago.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Oct%202013.pdf
Yes i am sure it would...again it takes all of 5seconds to flip the phase on the subs and remeasure. If that does nothing then I say proceed to the sub distance tweak.
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post #13368 of 15716 Old 08-21-2014, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
All it takes is turning 2 dials and measure...can't hurt to try. When I set my subs up I tried every combination of placement, phase, delay known to man. That way I knew the setup I stuck with was the best and it eliminated the "what if".

Also being the null goes away when he sets the mains to small tells me the subs are infact out of phase with the mains. If it was room induced then the null should still be present.
I hear ya. I had a heck of a time getting my setup right. The frequency to phase curve was different between the mains and the subs. No matter what I did phase wise, I still had a null. The only thing that changed was the frequency of the null. I ended up having to set my mains at 80Hz. I still have a dip, but I think it may be the room. I have limited placement options. My MLP is in a sweet spot. If I stand up and move two to three feet forward, I hear NO bass at all... LOL

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post #13369 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 02:57 PM
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The wwz grenade sweep is definitely my single favorite scene of all time. I play that thing on a loop sometimes, completely insane at reference levels.
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ahblaza - I have some experience with REW and umik from setting up 3 xs30se' in my living room. I may not be as experienced as bh or bear but can try to help in setting up multiple subs.
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BH, I'm sorry I got you confused with bear 123, we PM'd a lot about this REW and miniDSP and UMIK and all accessories, so I'll just add him to list as well whom I will be driving crazy with all this measuring stuff. I'm telling you both up front I know nothing about any of this, I have been reading a lot, I think I know what to download first and so forth, I THINK. I'm not buying anything until I at least get REW downloaded and any programs I need to get started. That in it's self is going to be a chore, I'm that inexperienced with programs and downloading stuff, I'm not ashamed to admit it, so I expect you guys to be very considerate of that fact and don't laugh at my stupid questions which will be many
Cheers Jeff
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post #13371 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
I hear ya. I had a heck of a time getting my setup right. The frequency to phase curve was different between the mains and the subs. No matter what I did phase wise, I still had a null. The only thing that changed was the frequency of the null. I ended up having to set my mains at 80Hz. I still have a dip, but I think it may be the room. I have limited placement options. My MLP is in a sweet spot. If I stand up and move two to three feet forward, I hear NO bass at all... LOL

Clim, that's pretty crazy, never heard that before. Sold my single Triax because every seat in the house had max output except the MLP. L&R of the MLP was tons of sound, dB level varied by 5-6dB between the left and right of the MLP, could not fix it, found out that multiples was the only cure. Well new laptop on the way and Jim has given me a lot of studying to do over the weekend to learn this DSP REW stuff, he even said he was going to test me on Monday and I said I will cheat anyway, just kidding.
Cheers Jeff

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post #13372 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydeep View Post
ahblaza - I have some experience with REW and umik from setting up 3 xs30se' in my living room. I may not be as experienced as bh or bear but can try to help in setting up multiple subs.
Fly, that would be great, you might be sorry that you offered after you see some of my questions, at this point I'm only interested in my XS30SEs, as I will be getting all new speakers. I'm still debating on the third XS30SE. I will be in touch and thanks again for the offer.
Cheers Jeff
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post #13373 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 03:23 PM
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Audio

Is anybody having trouble with the audio in this section of the mini DSP site:
http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...inidsp-concept
I can't get any sound and would like to hear this clip, tried Youtube and same thing.TIA
Cheers Jeff

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post #13374 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Is anybody having trouble with the audio in this section of the mini DSP site:
http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...inidsp-concept
I can't get any sound and would like to hear this clip, tried Youtube and same thing.TIA
Cheers Jeff

lol, when I got the mini I was pissed I couldn't get the sound, and it still not working. I can tell you the REW was more challenging (for me) than the miniDSP plugin. Its really self explanatory when you open it up. its pretty simple to use.
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post #13375 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 04:49 PM
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Measured each sub separate right in front and back by MLP. The 70Hz dip isn't as bad at distance. Audyssey is off now, all speakers set to small and crossed at 80.
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post #13376 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 05:37 PM
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OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ
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post #13377 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ
Sounds to me like you have a room induced null. The nulls will move around the room depending on the frequency. The wavelength is bouncing back from the walls and cancelling out at that freq right at your MLP.

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post #13378 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.
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post #13379 of 15716 Old 08-22-2014, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.
Good idea man.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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