Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 447 - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread
raynist's Avatar raynist 07:49 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I try this now, but I was in a chat session with PSA when I was posting this stuff. They guy from PSA thought the Sub EQ in my Denon X4000 would take care of that. He also asked me to rerun the REW with just the speakers and no subs. Doing that now.
Cool.

My denon 4311 has that too and it really helped.

LowellG's Avatar LowellG 07:49 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ


Wow, I just went to rerun my tests and this graph was center channel only.


Been playing for about 5 minutes. For some reason when I run REW it is only using the Center Channel now. Every since I recalibrated with audyssey
ppfp76's Avatar ppfp76 09:00 PM 08-22-2014
Good Evening,
Long time reader, first time poster. I got my PSA XV15SE yesterday and I have been playing with it tonight. I have a couple of questions that I know I have seen the answers posted, but yet can't really find them when I am looking for them.
First, when I run Audyssey, it sets the cross over on all of my speakers to 40 hz. I have all ARX speakers: A5 fronts, A2RX-C center, and A1B surrounds.
1) Should I go back in afterwards and manually adjust to 80 Hz?
2) The level setting for the Sub sets to -4.5. I recall seeing that a lot of people run their subs "hot". So, do you adjust the level from the AVR up or adjust the Gain?


I moved the sub closer to the corner, which helped a little, as I had it about 3 feet away from the front corner wall. Now its about 8 inches or so away.


Any input for a beginner would be great.
cableguy301's Avatar cableguy301 09:07 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppfp76 View Post
Good Evening,
Long time reader, first time poster. I got my PSA XV15SE yesterday and I have been playing with it tonight. I have a couple of questions that I know I have seen the answers posted, but yet can't really find them when I am looking for them.
First, when I run Audyssey, it sets the cross over on all of my speakers to 40 hz. I have all ARX speakers: A5 fronts, A2RX-C center, and A1B surrounds.
1) Should I go back in afterwards and manually adjust to 80 Hz?
2) The level setting for the Sub sets to -4.5. I recall seeing that a lot of people run their subs "hot". So, do you adjust the level from the AVR up or adjust the Gain?


I moved the sub closer to the corner, which helped a little, as I had it about 3 feet away from the front corner wall. Now its about 8 inches or so away.


Any input for a beginner would be great.

1 ... manually set speakers to small and try 80 or 100 hz out...


after moving the sub re run aud.. -4.5 is not bad .. run it hot by bumping up the level in the avr but not passed 0 or so.. a setting by aud at -9 is better..


enjoy the sub..


cheers..
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 09:09 PM 08-22-2014
Yes, set all speakers to small/80hz.

If you want to run your sub hot, adjust the trim in the AVR not the gain on the sub.
cableguy301's Avatar cableguy301 09:12 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I reran Audyssey and ran REW. Set mains and CC to large and full band. Surrounds were set to 60 and rears to 40


Still have dip at the 70HZ


you want to manually set all speakers to small... not large.. so you can pick your own crossover .. eg 80 or 100hz..


large will run the speakers full range.. small will work better with the subs


cheers
ppfp76's Avatar ppfp76 09:43 PM 08-22-2014
I can't set the speakers to "small" on my Onkyo receiver, it just asks about what Impedance to set them to, and that's about it besides the crossover settings.
What about when Audyssey asks to set the Sub DB setting to 75 at the beginning. I have to turn the gain down to at or slightly below "noon" to get to the 75 db that it's asking for before the self calibration starts. Should I ignore this and leave it at the 1 to 2 O'clock setting?
LowellG's Avatar LowellG 09:45 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post
you want to manually set all speakers to small... not large.. so you can pick your own crossover .. eg 80 or 100hz..


large will run the speakers full range.. small will work better with the subs


cheers


For some reason the computer itself changed out of a 7.1 config so I had to redo it's settings.
LowellG's Avatar LowellG 09:49 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
DO THE AUDYSSEY SUB DISTANCE TWEAK.

The purpose of the tweak is to smooth the crossover region by playing around with the distances of your subs (and thus phase).

It is really easy and completely worthwhile.


I am pretty much giving up. I moved my subs all around the room, moved my mains backwards, forwards, sideways and laying down. The dip was best back towards the wall. I just need some any more suggestions on what to try. I have heard about venting risers, and what about my bass traps, should I take those down. I can't obsess over the lack of perfection and that is what I will do so I need some other suggestions.


P.S. I read the distance tweak and that didn't make sense to me. I did turn my phase nobs with the REW running and they were loudest where the phases set with Audyssey.
wadec22's Avatar wadec22 11:09 PM 08-22-2014
just following up.... I started with a psa xs15se paired with my klipsch sub-12 and was happy but wanted more. I had a tough time tweaking them together (not a huge surprise). I then moved to a xv15 with my xs15se and was pretty happy.


i'm now sitting with a xv15 and xv15se. WOW. I do only watch movies and game but whoa........ THIS is what I was looking for. when people talk about feeling bass in the chest, yup, this is it. my room is approx. 3k cu ft. Lone Soldier and Max Payne were awesome.


In regards to Audyssey, I now keep DEQ on (wife and young child at home), listen at approx. -20db, run the subs 3db hot. settings are perfect for my tastes.


Just sharing b/c tweaking at first can be a pain, trying to give others a starting point. PSA.... made in the USA, best customer service, digital amplifiers, crazy bang for buck... not sure why you'd go anywhere else for BASS.
raynist's Avatar raynist 11:45 PM 08-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I am pretty much giving up. I moved my subs all around the room, moved my mains backwards, forwards, sideways and laying down. The dip was best back towards the wall. I just need some any more suggestions on what to try. I have heard about venting risers, and what about my bass traps, should I take those down. I can't obsess over the lack of perfection and that is what I will do so I need some other suggestions.


P.S. I read the distance tweak and that didn't make sense to me. I did turn my phase nobs with the REW running and they were loudest where the phases set with Audyssey.
Basically you do a sweep from say 1-300hz with just the sub, and then do one with just the mains or center (I did center). View both graphs at the same time and notice the crossover area. Next do a sweep with the subs and center (or mains) and compare that to the separate graphs of the subs and center. If the sweep with subs and center at the same time is lower in the crossover area or has dips the other combined graph doesn't you need to follow the instructions on changing the sub distances.
Josh865 07:11 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppfp76 View Post
I can't set the speakers to "small" on my Onkyo receiver, it just asks about what Impedance to set them to, and that's about it besides the crossover settings.
What about when Audyssey asks to set the Sub DB setting to 75 at the beginning. I have to turn the gain down to at or slightly below "noon" to get to the 75 db that it's asking for before the self calibration starts. Should I ignore this and leave it at the 1 to 2 O'clock setting?
On my Onkyo (818), setting a crossover amounts to setting the speakers as small, so you should be OK there.

My understanding is that it's OK to set the subs to 85 dBs or so during the Audyssey calibration (the gain on my XV15s are set at 2 o'clock). Audyssey will lower the level for the sub channel accordingly. The only thing to be mindful of is that you want to avoid hitting the minimum limit of your AVR's trim level for the sub channel (e.g., you don't want Audyssey to set your sub trim to -15 if -15 is as low as your AVR will go). I doubt that would happen if you start at 85 dBs, but it's something to be aware of.

Josh
LowellG's Avatar LowellG 09:19 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Basically you do a sweep from say 1-300hz with just the sub, and then do one with just the mains or center (I did center). View both graphs at the same time and notice the crossover area. Next do a sweep with the subs and center (or mains) and compare that to the separate graphs of the subs and center. If the sweep with subs and center at the same time is lower in the crossover area or has dips the other combined graph doesn't you need to follow the instructions on changing the sub distances.

I did separate subs, each one by itself then together, the mains together, and the center alone. All of them had the dip in the 70-80Hz area. I tried subs apart in the corners like the link to my HT. I tried the subs on each side of the CC, I tried both subs in the front left corner as one giant sub. I tried 1 sub left front with the other right back. I tried the left sub a third of the way up the front wall and the right sub front corner, I tried the both subs front corner with the woofers facing front and back. I tried both subs front corners with the woofers going side to side. I tried the left sub front to back with the right sub side to side. Every single position had the dip at 70 and 80. The only thing that ever changed was the distance of the dip. I just don't know if there is a solution.
FattyMcButterPants 09:33 AM 08-23-2014
After all this talk about phase I figured I would give it a go on my dual xv15se's, and what a difference it made! I had experimented with this with all my previous subs and never heard a difference, so I sort of thought it was non sense - man was I proved wrong.
LowellG's Avatar LowellG 09:34 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Basically you do a sweep from say 1-300hz with just the sub, and then do one with just the mains or center (I did center). View both graphs at the same time and notice the crossover area. Next do a sweep with the subs and center (or mains) and compare that to the separate graphs of the subs and center. If the sweep with subs and center at the same time is lower in the crossover area or has dips the other combined graph doesn't you need to follow the instructions on changing the sub distances.

I did separate subs, each one by itself then together, the mains together, and the center alone. All of them had the dip in the 70-80Hz area. I tried subs apart in the corners like the link to my HT. I tried the subs on each side of the CC, I tried both subs in the front left corner as one giant sub. I tried 1 sub left front with the other right back. I tried the left sub a third of the way up the front wall and the right sub front corner, I tried the both subs front corner with the woofers facing front and back. I tried both subs front corners with the woofers going side to side. I tried the left sub front to back with the right sub side to side. Every single position had the dip at 70 and 80. The only thing that ever changed was the distance of the dip. I just don't know if there is a solution.
basshead81's Avatar basshead81 09:38 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I did separate subs, each one by itself then together, the mains together, and the center alone. All of them had the dip in the 70-80Hz area. I tried subs apart in the corners like the link to my HT. I tried the subs on each side of the CC, I tried both subs in the front left corner as one giant sub. I tried 1 sub left front with the other right back. I tried the left sub a third of the way up the front wall and the right sub front corner, I tried the both subs front corner with the woofers facing front and back. I tried both subs front corners with the woofers going side to side. I tried the left sub front to back with the right sub side to side. Every single position had the dip at 70 and 80. The only thing that ever changed was the distance of the dip. I just don't know if there is a solution.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post26775633

In this post here I do not see any major dips....what is wrong with using this setup crossed around 120hz? 99% chance you will never get a razor flat curve without room treatments and some form of external eq. Honestly the graph does not need to be razor flat...just as long as there is no major nulls you should be good.
basshead81's Avatar basshead81 09:44 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
After all this talk about phase I figured I would give it a go on my dual xv15se's, and what a difference it made! I had experimented with this with all my previous subs and never heard a difference, so I sort of thought it was non sense - man was I proved wrong.
There is no such thing as non sense when it comes to setting up a sub...when spending 4 digits plus on subwoofers I think it only makes sense to exhaust every placement option, crossover setting, phase/delay setting possible to make sure you are extracting 100% out the sub(s).

I far too often read posts of folks not happy with how a sub is performing and instantly think upgrading to a different sub is the answer...99.99997% of the time it is always a setup issue. No sub will ever sound great with a massive null in the response.
LowellG's Avatar LowellG 09:48 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post26775633

In this post here I do not see any major dips....what is wrong with using this setup crossed around 120hz? 99% chance you will never get a razor flat curve without room treatments and some form of external eq. Honestly the graph does not need to be razor flat...just as long as there is no major nulls you should be good.

OK, I have been just trying to get it flat. When I had an Onkyo I could go in and tweak the frequencies in the bass range. I don't see that in the Denon setup. I will keep playing. Getting ready to rerun Audyssey after moving everything back to original positions except I have moved my mains to the back of the sub instead of the front. That's where the dip was less in most of the tests. I had major popping going on in my sub near the end because I was trying so many tweaks. I was so tired I didn't want to deal with it anymore. I hope it's not damaged.
FattyMcButterPants 10:49 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
There is no such thing as non sense when it comes to setting up a sub...when spending 4 digits plus on subwoofers I think it only makes sense to exhaust every placement option, crossover setting, phase/delay setting possible to make sure you are extracting 100% out the sub(s).

I far too often read posts of folks not happy with how a sub is performing and instantly think upgrading to a different sub is the answer...99.99997% of the time it is always a setup issue. No sub will ever sound great with a massive null in the response.
Yep, pretty eye opening for sure. Sometimes it's really difficult to overcome pre conceived notions. In my mind I had already tried experimenting with the phase on previous subs and noticed no difference, didn't seem useful to me. These are the first subs where I felt it changed anything for the better, and it was a huge leap, particularly for music.
climber07's Avatar climber07 11:38 AM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Yep, pretty eye opening for sure. Sometimes it's really difficult to overcome pre conceived notions. In my mind I had already tried experimenting with the phase on previous subs and noticed no difference, didn't seem useful to me. These are the first subs where I felt it changed anything for the better, and it was a huge leap, particularly for music.
Just like me, this is probably your first subwoofer that operates cleanly. Most budget subs operate with massive amounts of distortion. That distortion doesn't benefit as much from phase, distance, and crossovers. Clean, powerful bass is a fickle beast and needs to be meticulously dialed in to be "just right"...
raynist's Avatar raynist 03:53 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I did separate subs, each one by itself then together, the mains together, and the center alone. All of them had the dip in the 70-80Hz area. I tried subs apart in the corners like the link to my HT. I tried the subs on each side of the CC, I tried both subs in the front left corner as one giant sub. I tried 1 sub left front with the other right back. I tried the left sub a third of the way up the front wall and the right sub front corner, I tried the both subs front corner with the woofers facing front and back. I tried both subs front corners with the woofers going side to side. I tried the left sub front to back with the right sub side to side. Every single position had the dip at 70 and 80. The only thing that ever changed was the distance of the dip. I just don't know if there is a solution.
So if you had the dip running just the mains (or center) and also when running the subs, you should do the first step in the distance tweak. That would be taking the distance settings that Audyssey set for each sub and then in 1 ft increments change the distance setting either closer or further and see if there is a difference. After you get the best setting for just the subs, you then change the distance settings for each sub in unison (increment or decrement) and run sweeps in between with subs and mains until you get the smoothest graph.
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 05:32 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppfp76 View Post
Good Evening,
Long time reader, first time poster. I got my PSA XV15SE yesterday and I have been playing with it tonight. I have a couple of questions that I know I have seen the answers posted, but yet can't really find them when I am looking for them.
First, when I run Audyssey, it sets the cross over on all of my speakers to 40 hz. I have all ARX speakers: A5 fronts, A2RX-C center, and A1B surrounds.
1) Should I go back in afterwards and manually adjust to 80 Hz?
2) The level setting for the Sub sets to -4.5. I recall seeing that a lot of people run their subs "hot". So, do you adjust the level from the AVR up or adjust the Gain?


I moved the sub closer to the corner, which helped a little, as I had it about 3 feet away from the front corner wall. Now its about 8 inches or so away.


Any input for a beginner would be great.
That's almost the identical speaker setup I had, I had A5s LCR A2rx-c's surrounds, really nice speakers. Set xover for all speakers to 80Hz, if you want to raise the sub level do it in the AVR's trim level, don't go past the 0 dB or + side. You may want to set the gain on your XV15SE a little higher and then rerun Audyssey so it sets the sub level somewhere between -4 to -9, this way you have a little more lee way to raise the sub level with the AVR's trim level settings. The A5s can get pretty low but I would still set all speakers to 80 Hz and enjoy the benefit of your PSA XV15SE The ARX's play nice with PSA subs. I think you're real close to your ideal settings just get the sub level to come up a little higher closer to -8. I may be talking out of my a** but I had the exact setup you have except LCR A5s. The XV15SE is a real nice sub, I had four of them and let them go because I didn't want to take the time to properly set them up, I'm now delving into REW and miniDSP and UMIKs so I really won't know what I'm talking about. Hope this helps my friend. Quit lurking and start posting!!!!!
Cheers Jeff
LowellG's Avatar LowellG 05:33 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
So if you had the dip running just the mains (or center) and also when running the subs, you should do the first step in the distance tweak. That would be taking the distance settings that Audyssey set for each sub and then in 1 ft increments change the distance setting either closer or further and see if there is a difference. After you get the best setting for just the subs, you then change the distance settings for each sub in unison (increment or decrement) and run sweeps in between with subs and mains until you get the smoothest graph.


OK, I will try that. Also, I have been trying the different Audyssey setting. Audyssey minus the mains and Audyssey flat. They both give a little more impact in gunfire and small explosion scenes than the main Audyssey setting. Additionally I tried pumping up the graphic EQ manually at 63 and 125 Hz. Not as good as the rest.
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 05:39 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
lol, when I got the mini I was pissed I couldn't get the sound, and it still not working. I can tell you the REW was more challenging (for me) than the miniDSP plugin. Its really self explanatory when you open it up. its pretty simple to use.
I sure hope so as Jim Farina is giving me tutorials as to what to read and study first and then will test me on my homework I have a long way to go yet. I did order a new laptop yesterday and want to download REW and get familiar with it, yeah right, no I'm really going to try this time and maybe I'll finally be happy with what I have and understand what I'm hearing and why
Cheers Jeff
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 06:15 PM 08-23-2014
Hey guys, I'm using my AVR as a pre-pro only and it only has Audy XT, is it worth while to upgrade to a receiver with Audyssey XT32 SUBEQ HT, I would be using this new receiver with REW as well, so is it worth it to upgrade if I'm going to become a master at REW miniDSP and UMIK TIA
Cheers Jeff
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 06:31 PM 08-23-2014
Hey guys quick question, the laptop I ordered is a minimalist design, it had HDMI input but is wireless only, due to my home construction is is hard to get a clean wireless signal to my listening room, I have all my components hardwired that require ethernet, so I need to get an adapter USB to ethernet , is this ok or do you reco something else, it's 2.0.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
Thanks Jeff
Timokreon's Avatar Timokreon 08:14 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey guys quick question, the laptop I ordered is a minimalist design, it had HDMI input but is wireless only, due to my home construction is is hard to get a clean wireless signal to my listening room, I have all my components hardwired that require ethernet, so I need to get an adapter USB to ethernet , is this ok or do you reco something else, it's 2.0.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
Thanks Jeff
That's pretty cool. I never even realized those existed! lol

For that price, I'd try one.

As for a new receiver? Personally I'd hold off and wait to see what all this atmos is going to bring. Plus, you might get a great price on one later this year. But :shrugs: If you're like me, you'll want a new one anyways. lol..

I'm sure some of the other guys will chime in. As well as Tom, Jim, et al..
ahblaza's Avatar ahblaza 08:39 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timokreon View Post
That's pretty cool. I never even realized those existed! lol

For that price, I'd try one.

As for a new receiver? Personally I'd hold off and wait to see what all this atmos is going to bring. Plus, you might get a great price on one later this year. But :shrugs: If you're like me, you'll want a new one anyways. lol..

I'm sure some of the other guys will chime in. As well as Tom, Jim, et al..
I ended up getting this one, and you're right I want the receiver now
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
zeus33's Avatar zeus33 09:50 PM 08-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey guys, I'm using my AVR as a pre-pro only and it only has Audy XT, is it worth while to upgrade to a receiver with Audyssey XT32 SUBEQ HT, I would be using this new receiver with REW as well, so is it worth it to upgrade if I'm going to become a master at REW miniDSP and UMIK TIA
Cheers Jeff

Definitely not. That is a lot of money to pay for something with minimal gain. Besides, SUBEQ HT doesn't correct each sub separately. It applies time delay and level settings separately for each sub, but it applies the correction filters to both subs as one. You could get a MiniDSP that will give you a lot of flexibility for each sub separately for $155. You would achieve MUCH better results with the MiniDSP option.

If you want a new receiver to get ATMOS or for some other reason, then you will be limited to Denon or Marantz to get XT32 and IIRC, they both have the SUBEQ HT feature included. So that would make sense, but not purchasing one just to gain SUBEQ HT.
Morkeleb's Avatar Morkeleb 09:56 PM 08-23-2014
ahblaza did you get a chance to play the grenade scene from WWZ yet? Just curious.
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