Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 454 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #13591 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
The dip is pretty much everywhere. It's about 10db less. I also moved my subs all over the room.
Did you ever try one up front and one in back? That's what took care of my null ('cept I have 2 up front and 2 in back ).
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post #13592 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicious1 View Post
Well, XS30se should be here on Thursday at my new house. May be a few days after before I can actually set it up, moving, unpacking, some minor remodeling work, but can't wait to hear it.
Congrats Vicious! Don't hesitate to come back here if (when ) you have any setup issues.
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post #13593 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
I would say that I am missing some of that chest slam. Maybe a cross over problem with my mains is just what I am guessing but I am all very new to this audio world, so who knows until I invest the time and money into REW. My room is smaller then that at 15x15x8 with a large opening into the entry way down a flight of stairs. Not an ideal room by any means.
Oooo...a square room.

I wish you luck my man!
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post #13594 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Did you ever try one up front and one in back? That's what took care of my null ('cept I have 2 up front and 2 in back ).
I tried that along with about 6 other configurations. Close to the front corners like they currently are measured best.

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post #13595 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jer181 View Post
I would say that I am missing some of that chest slam. Maybe a cross over problem with my mains is just what I am guessing but I am all very new to this audio world, so who knows until I invest the time and money into REW. My room is smaller then that at 15x15x8 with a large opening into the entry way down a flight of stairs. Not an ideal room by any means.
I would say I am missing that as well, unless my expectations are just to high. I would like movie theater feel.

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post #13596 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I would say I am missing that as well, unless my expectations are just to high. I would like movie theater feel.


Again did you try the subwoofer distance tweak that has been posted several times? Did you try measuring other seating areas? Sometimes moving the LP forward or back 1ft can make all the difference in the world.

Your missing a lot if you have a 10db drop in the 60-80hz range.

What is your audio background? Just curious since you said that you might be expecting too much? Dual XS30se in that size room should be able to deliver 130+ db of output in the 40-125hz range in that size room. That should be more then enough output for 97% of all enthusiasts.
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post #13597 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 08:33 PM
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Hey BH, since you guys are talking about a 10dB drop between 60-80 Hz, is there another way besides REW to generate the tones from 5Hz to 100 Hz, say from a disc that has those frequencies, could I just use my CD player to play the sweeps and disable my speakers and measure with a SPL meter in 5Hz increments the output (dBs) of just the subs? TIA
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post #13598 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I would say I am missing that as well, unless my expectations are just to high. I would like movie theater feel.
I think the chest slam feel is more in the 80-150hz range, if you are crossing your sub at 80hz then a majority of that will fall on your LCR speakers which may not be up to the task (can't remember what you have). You also need very high listening levels to feel that. A movie theater plays the movies at would would be 0db's on your receiver. How loud do you listen?
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post #13599 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Again did you try the subwoofer distance tweak that has been posted several times? Did you try measuring other seating areas? Sometimes moving the LP forward or back 1ft can make all the difference in the world.

Your missing a lot if you have a 10db drop in the 60-80hz range.

What is your audio background? Just curious since you said that you might be expecting too much? Dual XS30se in that size room should be able to deliver 130+ db of output in the 40-125hz range in that size room. That should be more then enough output for 97% of all enthusiasts.

I read through the subwoofer distance tweak and it looked to me like the end result was to put in different lengths, so I skipped to that. I really can't say that I have an audio background. I sang a lo growing up though, soprano, tenor and bass as I grew up. I like harmony's and I am very good at distinguishing sound and clarity. Other than that, it's what I have read here and experimented with. Maybe I am just unwilling to turn the whole thing up to loud.


I am really unable to move my MLP if you look at my pictures. The room just doesn't have room, plus there is the whole WAF. I was just playing with internet test tones though last night and my sound meter an I tried 60-90. That's where I really noticed the db difference. I live near a very reputable dealership called Bjorns, would it be worth it to call in a pro? Or is it just an expectation thing.

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post #13600 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I think the chest slam feel is more in the 80-150hz range, if you are crossing your sub at 80hz then a majority of that will fall on your LCR speakers which may not be up to the task (can't remember what you have). You also need very high listening levels to feel that. A movie theater plays the movies at would would be 0db's on your receiver. How loud do you listen?


I crossover at 120 or 150,it may just be my volume levels.

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post #13601 of 29816 Old 09-06-2014, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I read through the subwoofer distance tweak and it looked to me like the end result was to put in different lengths, so I skipped to that. I really can't say that I have an audio background. I sang a lo growing up though, soprano, tenor and bass as I grew up. I like harmony's and I am very good at distinguishing sound and clarity. Other than that, it's what I have read here and experimented with. Maybe I am just unwilling to turn the whole thing up to loud.


I am really unable to move my MLP if you look at my pictures. The room just doesn't have room, plus there is the whole WAF. I was just playing with internet test tones though last night and my sound meter an I tried 60-90. That's where I really noticed the db difference. I live near a very reputable dealership called Bjorns, would it be worth it to call in a pro? Or is it just an expectation thing.
How loud are you listening? I think you really need to turn it up loud to get the chest thump. It isn't going to happen at -20 and probably isn't going to happen if your mains are not really stout unless you use a high crossover on your subs. Maybe try a 150 or 120hz xover and see if that helps with the chest slam (and turn it up). If it does then the mains are the problem
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post #13602 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey BH, since you guys are talking about a 10dB drop between 60-80 Hz, is there another way besides REW to generate the tones from 5Hz to 100 Hz, say from a disc that has those frequencies, could I just use my CD player to play the sweeps and disable my speakers and measure with a SPL meter in 5Hz increments the output (dBs) of just the subs? TIA
Jeff try out audiocheck.net
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post #13603 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey BH, since you guys are talking about a 10dB drop between 60-80 Hz, is there another way besides REW to generate the tones from 5Hz to 100 Hz, say from a disc that has those frequencies, could I just use my CD player to play the sweeps and disable my speakers and measure with a SPL meter in 5Hz increments the output (dBs) of just the subs? TIA
Check the link Jbrown posted.
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post #13604 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I read through the subwoofer distance tweak and it looked to me like the end result was to put in different lengths, so I skipped to that. I really can't say that I have an audio background. I sang a lo growing up though, soprano, tenor and bass as I grew up. I like harmony's and I am very good at distinguishing sound and clarity. Other than that, it's what I have read here and experimented with. Maybe I am just unwilling to turn the whole thing up to loud.


I am really unable to move my MLP if you look at my pictures. The room just doesn't have room, plus there is the whole WAF. I was just playing with internet test tones though last night and my sound meter an I tried 60-90. That's where I really noticed the db difference. I live near a very reputable dealership called Bjorns, would it be worth it to call in a pro? Or is it just an expectation thing.
Have you actually found the subs limits yet? I don't recall if you mentioned but where are the subs calibrated at? Meaning where is the amp gains set, what level did audyssey calibrate them too, and did you boost the sub trim above the calibration levels?

If you have not already, set the sub amp gains to 2:00, run audyssey, the sub trims will probably be around -6. I would then manually bump the sub trim to 0 in the AVR and report back.
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post #13605 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 11:00 AM
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The real problem is he has small satellites speakers xo at 120-150 Hz and he wants big theater slam. Just not going to happen. Invest in some more capable speakers. I apologize if this seems a little rough but, the only way to get big sound is to match speakers, sub, and other gear for good synergy. All of our systems have limits and reasonable expectations lead to happiness.
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post #13606 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Have you actually found the subs limits yet? I don't recall if you mentioned but where are the subs calibrated at? Meaning where is the amp gains set, what level did audyssey calibrate them too, and did you boost the sub trim above the calibration levels?

If you have not already, set the sub amp gains to 2:00, run audyssey, the sub trims will probably be around -6. I would then manually bump the sub trim to 0 in the AVR and report back.
I am not sure what you mean exactly by it's limits, but I have worked with Tom on the setup. Plus, I go through the sub calibration with XT32 and it has me set the gain between 75 and 80 db before I even start the calibration. When it's done, the subs are around -9 to -11 compared to the rest of the speakers. I have to increase them by 8-10 db to feel anything from them again. I have also found Audyssey "Flat" feels/sounds the best. I even tried a custom setting where I play with the equalizer myself with the Denon X4000, but it just doesn't sound as good. I did "copy curve" and then increased 63Hz and 125Hz.

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post #13607 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
The real problem is he has small satellites speakers xo at 120-150 Hz and he wants big theater slam. Just not going to happen. Invest in some more capable speakers. I apologize if this seems a little rough but, the only way to get big sound is to match speakers, sub, and other gear for good synergy. All of our systems have limits and reasonable expectations lead to happiness.

I am not sure if you meant my post, but the SM65s aren't exactly small satellites. I haven't tried my BP2006TLs in there with the XS30s, but I can see if that helps. It's just Audyssey tends to not do will with BPs.

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post #13608 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Jeff try out audiocheck.net
Thanks jb and BH, I have the Bass Mekanic disc that has 10-100Hz test tones in 5 Hz increments, can I use that in my player, if so do I have to disable my speakers. One more question, if I set the gain on my XS30SEs at 2 o'clock (right now they are at 1 o'clock) and Audy XT is showing sub trims at -9, so what is an acceptable minus level on the sub trim. I'm making a little progress with REW and UMIK, I'm taking it very slow and using Jerry Austin's setup guide. I want to get that done and then I will proceed with the miniDSP, I have to take it one step at a time, I'm not at a point yet to even ask a question TIA guys.
Jeff
PS: I do understand about speakers being up to par with the subs as I'm using 4" monitors right now and there is a big difference between them and when I had my other full range speakers that I sold in anticipation of the new PSA speakers.
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post #13609 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I am not sure what you mean exactly by it's limits, but I have worked with Tom on the setup. Plus, I go through the sub calibration with XT32 and it has me set the gain between 75 and 80 db before I even start the calibration. When it's done, the subs are around -9 to -11 compared to the rest of the speakers. I have to increase them by 8-10 db to feel anything from them again. I have also found Audyssey "Flat" feels/sounds the best. I even tried a custom setting where I play with the equalizer myself with the Denon X4000, but it just doesn't sound as good. I did "copy curve" and then increased 63Hz and 125Hz.
Limits means taking the subs to the point where they do not increase in output. Have you done this? Where are the amp gains set? Have you verified how much output you are actually getting with a spl meter or REW?
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post #13610 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 06:15 PM
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Limits means taking the subs to the point where they do not increase in output. Have you done this? Where are the amp gains set? Have you verified how much output you are actually getting with a spl meter or REW?
Well I definitely haven't done that, not even sure how to other than just set there with my SPL meter and play tones with the receiver at 0.


I stopped by BB Magnolia tonight and asked about an audio calibration. Not sure if that's what I want either. They use Audyssey. Not sure how much different there tweaking would be than XT32 is already doing.

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post #13611 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 06:50 PM
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turn off your main speakers, fire up REW and run sweeps starting at -15, -10, -5, and 0. then post the graph of all the sweeps plotted on one graph.


another thing you can do is play some heavy bass music @ -15,-10,-5, 0 and measure the output with a spl meter. if the subs quit increasing in output before you get to 0 then do not turn it any louder.

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post #13612 of 29816 Old 09-07-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
Well I definitely haven't done that, not even sure how to other than just set there with my SPL meter and play tones with the receiver at 0.


I stopped by BB Magnolia tonight and asked about an audio calibration. Not sure if that's what I want either. They use Audyssey. Not sure how much different there tweaking would be than XT32 is already doing.
The sm65s have a lot of output. Basically a two mid woofer tower without the towers. I wouldn't cross those over any higher than 100 hz.

Have you tried running them as full/large and see how that works?

I found that I like my setup best with my mains running as large. This wasn't the case when I had only one sub but with two subs it sounds better.
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post #13613 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 08:32 AM
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I'v just talked with Tom via livechat for a while before place an order. He was help me alot via email and livechat. He even send me a small couple code because i have to ship the sub to another country. He is a very nice gentleman.
I am current using a B&W ASW700 subwoofer. I hope that the PSA XV15SE will blow me out when i receive it ))
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post #13614 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 11:10 AM
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I'v just talked with Tom via livechat for a while before place an order. He was help me alot via email and livechat. He even send me a small couple code because i have to ship the sub to another country. He is a very nice gentleman.
I am current using a B&W ASW700 subwoofer. I hope that the PSA XV15SE will blow me out when i receive it ))
I am unfamiliar with the B&W ASW 700, but I have two Polk 505s...I am still blown out of the water after having it for a few months.
I was in the other room hanging my projector, and the girls next rom over watching monster house, and I could not only hear the PSA XV15SE, but I could see the ripples being created in my beer bottle! Thanks Tom and Climber for leading me to the promised LFE land. You just have to hear and feel it to believe it.....now to budget for another XV15SE!!!!!!!!!!
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I am unfamiliar with the B&W ASW 700, but I have two Polk 505s...I am still blown out of the water after having it for a few months.
I was in the other room hanging my projector, and the girls next rom over watching monster house, and I could not only hear the PSA XV15SE, but I could see the ripples being created in my beer bottle! Thanks Tom and Climber for leading me to the promised LFE land. You just have to hear and feel it to believe it.....now to budget for another XV15SE!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you. Another XV15SE is what i should do !
BTW, my B&W ASW 700 specs are :
-500W class D
-Frequency range (-6dB):
17Hz and 40/140Hz
-Frequency response (±3dB):
22Hz and 31/110Hz

I don't know much about sub, so can anyone compare it with the XV15SE for me ?

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post #13616 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by justbenice View Post
Thank you. Another XV15SE is what i should do !
BTW, my B&W ASW 700 specs are :
-500W class D
-Frequency range (-6dB):
17Hz and 40/140Hz
-Frequency response (±3dB):
22Hz and 31/110Hz

I don't know much about sub, so can anyone compare it with the XV15SE for me ?
They are in different leagues. The XV15se is most certainly going to destroy the 10" B&W under 40 Hz, especially in movies. The overall output of the XV15 is going to be higher, however, being a sealed unit, the B&W may sound a bit tighter in music.

Here are some ballpark comparisons. Keep in mind that the B&W speaker listed is a different model with similar specs. The XV15 is the old driver version with the lower powered amp. The new "SE" version of the XV15 has substantially higher outputs.

The following are from databass.com:


Onkyo TX-NR3009 - Emotiva XPA-2 300 WPC - Polk Audio RTiA9 Mains - CSiA6 Center - F/XiA6 Surrounds - Dual PSA XV-15se Subwoofers - Epson 5030UB Projector - Monoprice Multi-format 106" HD Gray screen - Samsung BD-F5900 3D Bluray - WDTV Live HD Media Player with 6TB External Storage - Nintendo Wii - XBox 360 - Logitech Harmony One, and custom DIY media console...
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post #13617 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 06:50 PM
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The best comparison would be to use the XV30se numbers and subtract 2.5-3db across the board. As you will see the biggest gains are on each end of the spectrum(20 & 100hz). The SE models no longer have the upper bass roll off due to inductance and much better long term compression around the port tune. Needless to say the XV15se will run circles around the B&W.
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post #13618 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
The sm65s have a lot of output. Basically a two mid woofer tower without the towers. I wouldn't cross those over any higher than 100 hz.

Have you tried running them as full/large and see how that works?

I found that I like my setup best with my mains running as large. This wasn't the case when I had only one sub but with two subs it sounds better.

XT32 sets them to large every time crossed at 40Hz, but I end up setting them to small and just keep upping the crossover on the sub. Started at 100, but ended up at 150. That's where the impact is greatest.

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post #13619 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 08:52 PM
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Thank you so much @climber07 and @basshead81 . i am really appreciated your help, I have few more question :
- If i user something to seal the port of XV15SE, can it bass down to under 16hz like the XS15SE ?
- I hear that the XS15SE can have good under 16hz range because it seal , so if i have a Xv15SE together with the XS15SE instead of dual XV15SE, will it sound good without any conflict ?
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post #13620 of 29816 Old 09-08-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbenice View Post
Thank you so much @climber07 and @basshead81 . i am really appreciated your help, I have few more question :
- If i user something to seal the port of XV15SE, can it bass down to under 16hz like the XS15SE ?
- I hear that the XS15SE can have good under 16hz range because it seal , so if i have a Xv15SE together with the XS15SE instead of dual XV15SE, will it sound good without any conflict ?
That is a negative ghost rider. You cannot plug the XV15se. Tom V. has the specifics, but you can damage the sub.
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Onkyo TX-NR3009 - Emotiva XPA-2 300 WPC - Polk Audio RTiA9 Mains - CSiA6 Center - F/XiA6 Surrounds - Dual PSA XV-15se Subwoofers - Epson 5030UB Projector - Monoprice Multi-format 106" HD Gray screen - Samsung BD-F5900 3D Bluray - WDTV Live HD Media Player with 6TB External Storage - Nintendo Wii - XBox 360 - Logitech Harmony One, and custom DIY media console...
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Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , v1500 , V3600i , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Xs30 , Xv15

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