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post #13771 of 13800 Old 09-13-2014, 11:17 AM
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Did you try adjusting the center channel distance?
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post #13772 of 13800 Old 09-13-2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, I am putting an REW pic here trying to follow the Audessey sub distance tweak recommended by BassHead. However, for what might seem like simple instructions to the experienced people following step two is tricky. In REW I don't know how to use a monotone test signal, so I used the signals provided with my UMIK-1. I used the narrow band response 90 degrees and my mic head was 90 degrees from the front sound stage at the MLP. The chart below was run using the sub distance tweak instructions and the receiver was on DLP 2 Cinema mode where only the CC was used with no mains.


Yellow Line Sub Only
Greenish Blue line CC only
Blue line all with CC CO at 80Hz
Orange line all with CC CO at 150Hz


There definitely is an issue with my CC and Subs. I have tried adjusting the sub distances 1 foot at a time with an SPL meter from 6-25 feet. Best comes at a distance of 14.5 feet where these measurements were taken which is 1 foot less than XT32 set them at. Any suggestion's.
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Did you try adjusting the center channel distance?
In addition also try different crossover points above (not below) what Audyssey and or your avr has set it at, do indeed measure and listen. This may apply to the surrounds and mains as well to achieve an overall balance to your liking and do try various combinations as each combination can sound different.
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post #13773 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 09:25 AM
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IIRC, some of you have your L or R speaker on top of your PSA sub(s). Any problem with your speaker moving around because of vibration from the PSA sub?


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post #13774 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
IIRC, some of you have your L or R speaker on top of your PSA sub(s). Any problem with your speaker moving around because of vibration from the PSA sub?

Thanks for the idea as there is no vibration from my XS30SEs

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post #13775 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 12:23 PM
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XV15se Gain vs Audyssey

I'm working on setting up my XV15se, and I had a general question regarding the gain setting versus what is recommended for Audyssey. My receiver is an Onkyo TX-NR809 that runs Audyssey MultEQ XT, and after setting up everything based upon what is recommended in the Audyssey FAQ, having the gain at 12:00 puts the end result at -2db, which is within the suggested range of -3db - 0db after calibration.

It seems like most have been pleased with the XV15se once the gain is in the neighborhood of 1:00-2:00, and I ended up between -9.5 db and -14.5 db when I ran the calibration in that range. My question is for those people that run the sub gain in the 1:00-2:00 range, are you disregarding the recommended post-calibration range and just running with whatever the receiver sets, or are you ending up between -3 db and 0 db?

To my untrained ear, it seems to be lacking the LFE impact for movies with the gain at 12:00, and I wanted to put the question out there for those that have gone through the setup process with their XV15se.

Thanks
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post #13776 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 12:31 PM
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Set the gain around 2:00, Audyssey will trim the sub back around -9(which is low for most peoples taste). Now just bump the Sub trim in the AVR up to -3. That will leave the sub running about 6db hot and puts you in the +/-3 window.

Room correction software (Aud, ypao, mcacc) tends to set the subwoofer output 5-6db low for some reason. This topic is routinely discussed on the forums. Try the above method and report back.
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post #13777 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rel View Post
I'm working on setting up my XV15se, and I had a general question regarding the gain setting versus what is recommended for Audyssey. My receiver is an Onkyo TX-NR809 that runs Audyssey MultEQ XT, and after setting up everything based upon what is recommended in the Audyssey FAQ, having the gain at 12:00 puts the end result at -2db, which is within the suggested range of -3db - 0db after calibration.

It seems like most have been pleased with the XV15se once the gain is in the neighborhood of 1:00-2:00, and I ended up between -9.5 db and -14.5 db when I ran the calibration in that range. My question is for those people that run the sub gain in the 1:00-2:00 range, are you disregarding the recommended post-calibration range and just running with whatever the receiver sets, or are you ending up between -3 db and 0 db?

To my untrained ear, it seems to be lacking the LFE impact for movies with the gain at 12:00, and I wanted to put the question out there for those that have gone through the setup process with their XV15se.

Thanks
Remember that the gain knob on the subwoofer amp is not a volume setting. It is the amplifier gain sensitivity for varying input signals from the AVR's LFE output.

I recommend setting the subwoofer gain knob from 1:00 to 2:00 with your setup and results. An AVR subwoofer gain (after Audyssey) of -6dB to -10dB is ideal as this allows you to bump up the AVR subwoofer gain a few dB without crossing over the 0dB level. Most people agree that Audyssey sets their subwoofer too low and ultimately bump their AVR sub level up by 3dB to 5dB depending on their room acoustics. As long as you don't max out Audyssey's subwoofer adjustment (-12dB I think) then you will be fine.

Good luck and congrats on the XV15se.
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post #13778 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Set the gain around 2:00, Audyssey will trim the sub back around -9(which is low for most peoples taste). Now just bump the Sub trim in the AVR up to -3. That will leave the sub running about 6db hot and puts you in the +/-3 window.

Room correction software (Aud, ypao, mcacc) tends to set the subwoofer output 5-6db low for some reason. This topic is routinely discussed on the forums. Try the above method and report back.
darn you to heck for posting a reply whilst I was writing mine...
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post #13779 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 01:22 PM
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Xs30se spl

Hey guys, as you all know I have dual XS30SEs and no I haven't finished setting up my REW, Umik and miniDSP. I gain matched both subs in the middle of room in the exact same position for both subs and then ran Audy XT and got -9 dB setting for the subs and I bumped it up to -3dB, all OK. I decided today to measure the output of each sub with the AVR's test tone and my SPL meter, both subs are in the L&R front corners equal distance to PLP, anyway I measured the left sub and same output at all seating locations, I was thrilled as I could not achieve this with the Triax I had. Then I measured output of the right sub and the output varied from the PLP , at the PLP and to the right of that spot was the same but when I measured to the left of the PLP the output was was about 4dB higher. I have an opening on the left side wall midway down from the front wall about 6' wide, do you think this has something to do with the increased output towards the left of PLP. I wonder why the sub in the left corner had even output across the entire seating area and the right corner sub did not. I'm thinking since the left corner sub has such even output at all seating areas I should move the right corner sub closer to the PLP for more of a tactile feel (or add a third near field) What do you guys think. I wanted to add, with both subs playing the output was pretty even across all seating areas. I know you're going to say get REW up and running and I won't have to ask these questions. By the way my receiver will set the sub trim level to -15 (Onkyo 809) with Audyssey.
Cheers Jeff
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post #13780 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey guys, as you all know I have dual XS30SEs and no I haven't finished setting up my REW, Umik and miniDSP. I gain matched both subs in the middle of room in the exact same position for both subs and then ran Audy XT and got -9 dB setting for the subs and I bumped it up to -3dB, all OK. I decided today to measure the output of each sub with the AVR's test tone and my SPL meter, both subs are in the L&R front corners equal distance to PLP, anyway I measured the left sub and same output at all seating locations, I was thrilled as I could not achieve this with the Triax I had. Then I measured output of the right sub and the output varied from the PLP , at the PLP and to the right of that spot was the same but when I measured to the left of the PLP the output was was about 4dB higher. I have an opening on the left side wall midway down from the front wall about 6' wide, do you think this has something to do with the increased output towards the left of PLP. I wonder why the sub in the left corner had even output across the entire seating area and the right corner sub did not. I'm thinking since the left corner sub has such even output at all seating areas I should move the right corner sub closer to the PLP for more of a tactile feel (or add a third near field) What do you guys think. I wanted to add, with both subs playing the output was pretty even across all seating areas. I know you're going to say get REW up and running and I won't have to ask these questions. By the way my receiver will set the sub trim level to -15 (Onkyo 809) with Audyssey.
Cheers Jeff
I think since the response feels so even from the one in the left corner you should just send me the one in the right corner..

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post #13781 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post
I think since the response feels so even from the one in the left corner you should just send me the one in the right corner..

Hey Fresh, give me your address
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post #13782 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
IIRC, some of you have your L or R speaker on top of your PSA sub(s). Any problem with your speaker moving around because of vibration from the PSA sub?
I'm waiting on new speakers so I just set up my mains on the two XS30SEs to try it out, will let you know, I have small monitors right now.

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post #13783 of 13800 Old 09-14-2014, 09:46 PM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey guys, as you all know I have dual XS30SEs and no I haven't finished setting up my REW, Umik and miniDSP. I gain matched both subs in the middle of room in the exact same position for both subs and then ran Audy XT and got -9 dB setting for the subs and I bumped it up to -3dB, all OK. I decided today to measure the output of each sub with the AVR's test tone and my SPL meter, both subs are in the L&R front corners equal distance to PLP, anyway I measured the left sub and same output at all seating locations, I was thrilled as I could not achieve this with the Triax I had. Then I measured output of the right sub and the output varied from the PLP , at the PLP and to the right of that spot was the same but when I measured to the left of the PLP the output was was about 4dB higher. I have an opening on the left side wall midway down from the front wall about 6' wide, do you think this has something to do with the increased output towards the left of PLP. I wonder why the sub in the left corner had even output across the entire seating area and the right corner sub did not. I'm thinking since the left corner sub has such even output at all seating areas I should move the right corner sub closer to the PLP for more of a tactile feel (or add a third near field) What do you guys think. I wanted to add, with both subs playing the output was pretty even across all seating areas. I know you're going to say get REW up and running and I won't have to ask these questions. By the way my receiver will set the sub trim level to -15 (Onkyo 809) with Audyssey.
Cheers Jeff
By the way my receiver will set the sub trim level to -15 (Onkyo 809) with Audyssey.

If Audyssey XT is setting your sub trims at -15 then you will have to lower the gain knob on each sub and rerun Audyssey XT.


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post #13784 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 04:14 AM
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setup my subs in the new theater area...and what a difference having a large room makes with XS30's...now mind you this room will eventually be quite small (11x16x7.5) but without walls the response does in fact fall quickly.

I am getting +/-5db down to 10 Hz
but that is with a low end house curve boost....in my old home area....I was getting +/- 2db dwon to 10 before it fell off...

still sounds great....but cant wait to get that room gain back!



EDIT: the new sub configuration is much flatter than the old house (both subs up front) and needs very little EQ'ing to be very flat...

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post #13785 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hey guys, as you all know I have dual XS30SEs and no I haven't finished setting up my REW, Umik and miniDSP. I gain matched both subs in the middle of room in the exact same position for both subs and then ran Audy XT and got -9 dB setting for the subs and I bumped it up to -3dB, all OK. I decided today to measure the output of each sub with the AVR's test tone and my SPL meter, both subs are in the L&R front corners equal distance to PLP, anyway I measured the left sub and same output at all seating locations, I was thrilled as I could not achieve this with the Triax I had. Then I measured output of the right sub and the output varied from the PLP , at the PLP and to the right of that spot was the same but when I measured to the left of the PLP the output was was about 4dB higher. I have an opening on the left side wall midway down from the front wall about 6' wide, do you think this has something to do with the increased output towards the left of PLP. I wonder why the sub in the left corner had even output across the entire seating area and the right corner sub did not. I'm thinking since the left corner sub has such even output at all seating areas I should move the right corner sub closer to the PLP for more of a tactile feel (or add a third near field) What do you guys think. I wanted to add, with both subs playing the output was pretty even across all seating areas. I know you're going to say get REW up and running and I won't have to ask these questions. By the way my receiver will set the sub trim level to -15 (Onkyo 809) with Audyssey.
Cheers Jeff
This (in bold) is all that matters Jeff. The individual response doesn't matter so much as long as the combined response gets you where you want to be.
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post #13786 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Did you try adjusting the center channel distance?
Ummm....what?? You shouldn't be adjusting the distance of the speaker just the subwoofer(s).
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post #13787 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
By the way my receiver will set the sub trim level to -15 (Onkyo 809) with Audyssey.
You're saying this is the lower limit on your AVR not where it set yours, right Jeff??

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post #13788 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 10:35 AM
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Ummm....what?? You shouldn't be adjusting the distance of the speaker just the subwoofer(s).
Well if he tried every distance possible with the subs and 14.5' yields the best response but there is still a dip, I do not see why it could not hurt to try. Sometimes one needs to think outside the box and try different things. In the end the issue is probably related to the MLP, and the only way to fix is by moving it. However I would exhaust all options before doing that...even then I believe Lowell said moving the LP was not a option.
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post #13789 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM
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You're saying this is the lower limit on your AVR not where it set yours, right Jeff??
I'm pretty sure that was his meaning. My 3009's lower limit is -15 dB too.
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post #13790 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 12:59 PM
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You're saying this is the lower limit on your AVR not where it set yours, right Jeff??
Yes Alan that's the AVR's limit, my came out at -9dB which was perfect for me as I bumped it up 6dB, I might try that extra 2 dB as you said you did an 8dB bump

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Speaker Distance

As far as changing speaker distances in the AVR that is a not a good idea with the exception of subs of course, I was reading the REW thread and Jerry Austin said how important it was (for him anyway) that after running REW and then Audyssey he actually moved the mains and center until the quick setup Audy set his front three speakers identical distances to the PLP or MLP. He said that's just his OCD kicking in but it made a huge difference in the sound stage. Never realized how important that center speaker can be or is. On a side note I guess this Summer of Bass thing is going to happen at least till the speakers are released + thirty days, that's a good thing.
Cheers Jeff

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post #13792 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
As far as changing speaker distances in the AVR that is a not a good idea with the exception of subs of course, I was reading the REW thread and Jerry Austin said how important it was (for him anyway) that after running REW and then Audyssey he actually moved the mains and center until the quick setup Audy set his front three speakers identical distances to the PLP or MLP. He said that's just his OCD kicking in but it made a huge difference in the sound stage. Never realized how important that center speaker can be or is. On a side note I guess this Summer of Bass thing is going to happen at least till the speakers are released + thirty days, that's a good thing.
Cheers Jeff
Hi Jeff,

We'll likely keep the free shipping promotion going for the foreseeable future. We have gotten a lot of good feedback about it and our return percentage has barely changed.

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post #13793 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Well if he tried every distance possible with the subs and 14.5' yields the best response but there is still a dip, I do not see why it could not hurt to try. Sometimes one needs to think outside the box and try different things. In the end the issue is probably related to the MLP, and the only way to fix is by moving it. However I would exhaust all options before doing that...even then I believe Lowell said moving the LP was not a option.
I agree with trying everything you can, but I recently tried tweaking my center distance (to try to get the image to move down the screen, unsuccessfully) and was advised by the more intelligent people here that you should never do that.

Just regurgitating the info really....what do I know!

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post #13794 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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setup my subs in the new theater area...and what a difference having a large room makes with XS30's...now mind you this room will eventually be quite small (11x16x7.5) but without walls the response does in fact fall quickly.

I am getting +/-5db down to 10 Hz
but that is with a low end house curve boost....in my old home area....I was getting +/- 2db dwon to 10 before it fell off...

still sounds great....but cant wait to get that room gain back!





EDIT: the new sub configuration is much flatter than the old house (both subs up front) and needs very little EQ'ing to be very flat...
sweet...!

where did you place the subs compared to your old room...?

congrats on the new digs by the way...
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post #13795 of 13800 Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM
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I agree with trying everything you can, but I recently tried tweaking my center distance (to try to get the image to move down the screen, unsuccessfully) and was advised by the more intelligent people here that you should never do that.

Just regurgitating the info really....what do I know!

I have been running phantom CC mode for a couple days and forgot that I turned of the CC. It helps and I may just leave it that way.

Lowell


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post #13796 of 13800 Old Today, 04:52 AM
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sweet...!

where did you place the subs compared to your old room...?

congrats on the new digs by the way...
thanks!! loving the new bigger home!

i put them in front right corner (under screen) and left back next to MLP...not sure this is where they will stay but good enough for now

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4000 | Emotiva XPA-5 | PSB imagine B's | PSB image c5 | PSB B4's | DUAL PSA XS30 | OPPO 103 | minidsp

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post #13797 of 13800 Old Today, 08:54 AM
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XS30SE owners, I want to hear from you! Do you think you are losing out on anything by having a single unit with the dual drivers, vs. dual individual units? How big is the room you are using it in and what is your actual in-room extension?

I've talked to Tom and he has me thinking about an XS30 vs. dual individuals.

I love it when a [HT] plan comes together!
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post #13798 of 13800 Old Today, 10:15 AM
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I and many others here will recommend dual units compared to a single one. Now the bigger question is how sure are you that you want only one of xs30se? Based on most user experiences, it is recommended you start with the highest affordable unit now and add a second one later when financially possible, that way you will not be stuck with two smaller units and find it hard to upgrade later. How ever if you are certain that the second may not come for a long time go with the duals. In my case, I have 3 xs30se's in a 4200 cu ft open layout living room that has 2 3ft openings to the rest of home.
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XS30SE owners, I want to hear from you! Do you think you are losing out on anything by having a single unit with the dual drivers, vs. dual individual units? How big is the room you are using it in and what is your actual in-room extension?

I've talked to Tom and he has me thinking about an XS30 vs. dual individuals.

Fronts: KEF Q900's, KEF 600c, Rear: Mirage OMD-15's, SW: PSA triple XS30se+miniDSP
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post #13799 of 13800 Old Today, 10:24 AM
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I and many others here will recommend dual units compared to a single one. Now the bigger question is how sure are you that you want only one of xs30se? Based on most user experiences, it is recommended you start with the highest affordable unit now and add a second one later when financially possible, that way you will not be stuck with two smaller units and find it hard to upgrade later. How ever if you are certain that the second may not come for a long time go with the duals. In my case, I have 3 xs30se's in a 4200 cu ft open layout living room that has 2 3ft openings to the rest of home.

Thanks. The room is about 2,900 cubic feet, mixed use (ie. living/family room). System is mainly TV & movie watching, not much music.

My plan is/was for duals of either XS15, XV15 or dual of one of the SVS offerings (most likely the PC models).

I've discussed with Tom, and he suggested either dual XS15 or the single XS30 (note, extension is more important than highest output, as I don't listen at high levels).

Budget factors in as the single XS30 is a decent amount cheaper than dual of anything else.

If I went with the XS30, I probably wouldn't be adding another; at least not in the near future that I can see. Partly placement limitations, partly cost, partly WAF, and given the listening levels I think 2 of these might be overkill (but never say never).

Tom suggested that I could likely get down to between 7 - 10Hz in my room with either the dual XS15 or the XS30, vs. going with dual XV15 or any of the ported options from SVS (although output with any of these others would be more).

I guess I'm looking for "real world" opinions.

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post #13800 of 13800 Old Today, 10:28 AM
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remember too, to get useful response down into the single digits it has to be quite capable to hit high spl's at those frequencies (~98-100db's for 10Hz)

with that said go with the xs15's. duals are the best upgrade I ever made...

Panasonic 65VT30 | Panasonic AE8000 HD PJ | Denon x4000 | Emotiva XPA-5 | PSB imagine B's | PSB image c5 | PSB B4's | DUAL PSA XS30 | OPPO 103 | minidsp

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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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