Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 464 - AVS Forum
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post #13891 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg_Optoma View Post
Hi -

do you know how to perform the 8 point measurement using YPAO ?



complete HTS noob here.. can you please explain me how it is 16 db hot and what it means by that..the sound level has - and + values.. - does not mean going down? and moving towards + should be like increasing the sound level /output isn't it ? as the receiver volume starts from -80 db and goes till some + number probably +10 db.. didn't go to those values so not sure the + max value.. on the receiver...



when you says amp gain you mean the gain knob on the sub ? only have 1 sub for now.. I re ran the YPAO.. and please suggest me what you think.. with the new values... Thanks



Hi Alan -

Thanks for replying back..sorry I didn't catch it earlier and thought you were just asking for sound levels that YPAO sets for each speaker..

Yes it was late last night and I was not able to remember any particular photo sharing website.... and just googled for photo uploader and that stupid website came up last night... I am going to upload all the new files now on photobucket.. heck I actually had an account over there that I created long time back and forgot.. lol.. Please sort by oldest picture if it shows end photos first.. Thanks

anywayz coming back to serious topic..

Thanks for pointing out the stupid configuration I had in my HTS.. is using BI-AMP setting harmful to receiver or speakers or ears ? as I had set that instead of " Basic " which is one of the 3 options that the receiver provides.. Basic, Bi-Amp & Zone B.... I saw that when I switch to Bi-Amp the sound output from the Surround Back Speakers gets bumped up drastically .. but I think it hurts the LFE i.e., the subs output level... now I can see it.. when the towers sound goes up.. bass from sub is lowered...so that is the reason the high output from towers made me use that option for the "Power Amp Assign" option in the receiver configuration...

Now before running YPAO again I changed it to Basic, turned off "Adaptive DRC" and "Enhancer" off & EXTD... to off.. but yes I used them as they too used to bump up the sound output on my HTS..

Volume Trim :

Input Trim: +0.5 db
Subwoofer Trim: +0.5 db


Tone Control:

Treble: +0.5 db
Bass: +0.5 db


Quote"

I notice in your photos that YPAO set your sub trim at -10db. Is that the lower limit of adjustment on your AVR? If so, you need to turn down the gain on the sub and re-run YPAO until you get a sub trim level that is "in range".

I also noticed that you are using "PEQ" under Equalizer. Not sure how it works on your AVR, but on my Denon if I enable the graphic EQ it disables all the hard work my auto-eq program did. You might want to look at your manual to see.

"Quote Ends

To answer these questions... yes YPAO set the sub sound level to -10 db..( is this trim too or sound level ? then what is the Volume Trim in other Menu..) and -10 db is the max it can go to... I actually had the sub gain at close to 3 o clock.... so I moved it to 12 o clock before running the new YPAO..

The PEQ is by default... I didn't do anything there.. I was just showing you what option it had in the Equalizer.. I think it is also set by YPAO.



Ok now coming to the new YPAO settings.. Please see the attached photos for output... ( for some reason it set the surround backs to Large.. I changed them to Small )

after YPAO finished I saw most of the speakers sound level was set to negative value...it seems too harsh to me..and feels a little awkward/annoying to hear and seem harsh to ears and make me listen to anything at low volume... is this called reference kind of level ? if not what is the reference level.. usually referred everywhere.. Earlier I used to get good amount of sound output from speakers and sub.. at around - 50 db on receiver.. now I have to bump up the sound on receiver to -40 db to get good room filling sound.. but again then it seems too bright or harsh to ears..


now coming to SPL meter readings for this YPAO run... I saw the below values for each speaker..

SPL Meter was set at 75 db

Sound on Receiver at - 10 db ( Played Pink Noise of Receiver from each speaker )

FL outputs 67 db on SPL meter at this volume
FR outputs 66 db on SPL meter at this volume
center outputs 66 on SPL meter at this volume
Surround L outputs 65 on SPL meter at this volume
Surround R outputs 64 on SPL meter at this volume
Surround back L outputs 67 on SPL meter at this volume
Surrounnd back R outputs 67 on SPL meter at this volume
Sub outputs 67-68-69 on SPL meter at this volume

going by these values.. I believe I need to play with sound levels for each speaker to get them to match 75 db on SPL meter ? as the values that they are outputting is low..

I really want to change the sound levels for each speaker to meet the 75 mark on SPL.. meter.. but will wait for your reply..

Almost forgot to mention.. now I have set the sub gain at 2 o clock.. as I was barely hearing anything out of the sub.. at 12 o clock.. unless I bump up the receiver level.. and it is too bright/sharp for me now to hear at higher volumes..

Please let me know what needs to be done next by me.

Thanks appreciate your help to this noob..

PS: Thanks again for your inputs guys... and sorry for the lengthy posts here.. appreciate you guys patience and answers..
Cyborg - this is really getting way off-thread...I'm gonna take this to PM if you don't mind.
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post #13892 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
It can be bought from crutchfield for $1899 with free shipping even to Hawaii.
So for about $900 more than a XS15se I can get the same performance. Awesome!
Well, to be fair they do go through a distribution network. Whether it is some a smaller outfit or a large chain...everyone will want their cut. The upside is you get to hear/see/touch the product before purchase and that is very important to some. The downside is, all things being equal, you will never see the best price/performance ratio.

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post #13893 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
It can be bought from crutchfield for $1899 with free shipping even to Hawaii.
So for about $900 more than a XS15sev I can get the same performance. Awesome!


The E-112 is the first sub I've heard in demo which really blew me away. I've heard louder and deeper, but not cleaner, and certainly not without being much bigger. At $1900 it's pricy, but you do get some amazing technology. They cut zero corners.


That said, it's like this. If you just won the lottery, or if money is otherwise no object, go for the JL Audios. If not, get the PSA.
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post #13894 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
The E-112 is the first sub I've heard in demo which really blew me away. I've heard louder and deeper, but not cleaner, and certainly not without being much bigger. At $1900 it's pricy, but you do get some amazing technology. They cut zero corners.


That said, it's like this. If you just won the lottery, or if money is otherwise no object, go for the JL Audios. If not, get the PSA.
Honestly if I won the lottery. I would be buying 4 PSA Triax..... or something of that level.
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post #13895 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
Honestly if I won the lottery. I would be buying 4 PSA Triax..... or something of that level.


In that case you'd probably be comparing it to a JL Audio Gotham. It's just a ridiculous as a Triax.
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post #13896 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Bummer my post got eaten by the Database error monster... so again...

While I find JL audio products beautifully crafted, and built with a great deal of care. I wouldn't recommend them unless someone had some issues that couldn't be overcome. For example, some people refuse to buy hifi products that can't see, touch and listen to first even if they could ship it back without a large fee. Or someone had WAF or placement issues (size constraints) then I would recommend JL. They're very good products and they are built in the USA which is always a plus.

I guess I just can't get over the price...
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post #13897 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
In that case you'd probably be comparing it to a JL Audio Gotham. It's just a ridiculous as a Triax.
You can buy 3 Triax's for the price of a Gotham. Also it was either the F112/13 series or Gotham that was high passed @ 20hz.

Fwiw I believe there is a JL thread floating around...you probably will be lonely there.
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You can buy 3 Triax's for the price of a Gotham. Also it was either the F112/13 series or Gotham that was high passed @ 20hz.

Fwiw I believe there is a JL thread floating around...you probably will be lonely there.

Seriously?


Thanks 'basshead' that's why I was building off of the 'if you just won the lottery' canard. But you're right, it's vastly more expensive than the Triax, thanks for helping us with that- we had no idea. <sarcasm>


The topic of the JL Audio sub was brought up initially by Tommy V himself, after you accused his measurements of being 'too inflated.' I guess Tommy V should go shack up in the JL Audio thread too, right? For what it's worth, I just purchased a XS15se, and I explained why I chose it over the ESub.
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post #13899 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 09:28 PM
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Continuing my history of silly questions, I'm back with a new and exciting one!
So I bought a 50 ft sub cable last week thinking that I might want to move my XS15se into a near-field position. Of course, in the intervening days I've managed to tweak the settings so it's sounding fantastic in the location I'd originally selected. It has a 30-some foot cable on it now, but I think the cable may be poorly designed or damaged because the receiver setting for the distance was off by a good amount. Which leads me to the question: can cable length cause enough signal degradation or delay to cause the room eq to over-estimate the distance? A 15 ft cable would be sufficient for my current need, so do I...

A. return the new cable in favor of a shorter distance,

B. Keep the new cable, because the monoprice is likely better than the Monster crap,

C. Keep the existing cable because it works, and/or

D. Stop worrying about silly minutiae

Multiple choice!

Thx, Mike
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post #13900 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mjmcmahon67 View Post
Continuing my history of silly questions, I'm back with a new and exciting one!
So I bought a 50 ft sub cable last week thinking that I might want to move my XS15se into a near-field position. Of course, in the intervening days I've managed to tweak the settings so it's sounding fantastic in the location I'd originally selected. It has a 30-some foot cable on it now, but I think the cable may be poorly designed or damaged because the receiver setting for the distance was off by a good amount. Which leads me to the question: can cable length cause enough signal degradation or delay to cause the room eq to over-estimate the distance? A 15 ft cable would be sufficient for my current need, so do I...

A. return the new cable in favor of a shorter distance,

B. Keep the new cable, because the monoprice is likely better than the Monster crap,

C. Keep the existing cable because it works, and/or

D. Stop worrying about silly minutiae

Multiple choice!

Thx, Mike
The distance offset is most likely due to the DSP in the amp. Is it off by 5 feet or so?
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post #13901 of 13914 Old Yesterday, 10:34 PM
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The distance offset is most likely due to the DSP in the amp. Is it off by 5 feet or so?
Yes, it was about 5 ft off. Adjusting it down to the correct (measured) distance made a significant difference in sound quality from the sub!
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post #13902 of 13914 Old Today, 01:37 AM
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It sound like crazy because the diffirence price, but anyone here can tell me will the XS30SE out perform the Velodyne DD 15 ? I am thinking of purchafe a XS30SE after got a beautifull XV15SE .
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
Seriously?


Thanks 'basshead' that's why I was building off of the 'if you just won the lottery' canard. But you're right, it's vastly more expensive than the Triax, thanks for helping us with that- we had no idea. <sarcasm>


The topic of the JL Audio sub was brought up initially by Tommy V himself, after you accused his measurements of being 'too inflated.' I guess Tommy V should go shack up in the JL Audio thread too, right? For what it's worth, I just purchased a XS15se, and I explained why I chose it over the ESub.
They were not measurements just guesstimates.

you completely missed my sarcasm...I know you prurchased a XS15.
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^^^^ Someone get me some popcorn.

Receiver - Denon 4311
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #13905 of 13914 Old Today, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mjmcmahon67 View Post
Yes, it was about 5 ft off. Adjusting it down to the correct (measured) distance made a significant difference in sound quality from the sub!
The actual physical distance to your sub is rarely the correct distance setting in the AVR. The differences are due to a multitude of factors (i.e. interaction with your room, DSP).

The proper way to find the best distance setting is with the sub distance tweak.
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post #13906 of 13914 Old Today, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by climber07 View Post
The distance offset is most likely due to the DSP in the amp. Is it off by 5 feet or so?

Right, the DSP imparts a small latency on the signal as it is processed. 4-5 feet sounds about right.

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post #13907 of 13914 Old Today, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by justbenice View Post
It sound like crazy because the diffirence price, but anyone here can tell me will the XS30SE out perform the Velodyne DD 15 ? I am thinking of purchafe a XS30SE after got a beautifull XV15SE .
Goto data-bass and compare the Vel 18 to the xs15se. Take off about 2-3dB on the vel 18 and you'll get an accurate indicator of the vel 15. Then add 3-4dB to the XS15se and you have a very good idea of what the XS30se would show. It looks really close from about 15hz to 40hz. Above 40hz and the XS30se will have the advantage. From 45-100hz looks to be more than double the output capabilities on average.

Tom V.
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post #13908 of 13914 Old Today, 10:29 AM
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Thanks all - I've got a UMIK on the way from Tom and it should be here Friday. I'll do some testing with it and REW and see what I can come up with for the proper distance setting. I will say that setting the sub distance in the AVR to the measured distance made quite a bit of difference in the bass response. Sounds like you're saying that I should leave it at the YPAO setting, though, at least until I can run more accurate tests with both the Center and Sub in REW - or am I misunderstanding?
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My order for an XS-15se is in, now the wait begins.


I feel like a kid a week before Christmas
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post #13910 of 13914 Old Today, 11:25 AM
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Enjoy Claw! I know I'm certainly enjoying mine!
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Originally Posted by mjmcmahon67 View Post
Thanks all - I've got a UMIK on the way from Tom and it should be here Friday. I'll do some testing with it and REW and see what I can come up with for the proper distance setting. I will say that setting the sub distance in the AVR to the measured distance made quite a bit of difference in the bass response. Sounds like you're saying that I should leave it at the YPAO setting, though, at least until I can run more accurate tests with both the Center and Sub in REW - or am I misunderstanding?
Nope, not saying to trust YPAO. In your room, the actual physical distance may be the correct setting...you won't know for sure until you get REW up and running.

Until then, whatever distance setting produces the highest SPL at the MLP (with the sub cal noise in your AVR) is as close as you can get without measuring equipment.

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post #13912 of 13914 Old Today, 11:36 AM
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My order for an XS-15se is in, now the wait begins.

I feel like a kid a week before Christmas
The XS-15se is so good, that you'll want to add a second one.

Multiple subwoofers will help reduce the occurrence of room resonances and improve the overall quality of bass throughout your room.


Last edited by coolcat4843; Today at 11:42 AM.
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Nope, not saying to trust YPAO. In your room, the actual physical distance may be the correct setting...you won't know for sure until you get REW up and running.
Thanks Alan - since I'm only a few days from getting the UMIK I'll likely wait for further adjustments until I can play with it and REW. My wife is fairly patient on this, but that patience only goes so far.
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post #13914 of 13914 Old Today, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a heads up. All the veneer options on the Triax are sold out right now. You can still get a single or dual Triax's in satin black. If you looking to buy a Triax with veneer best talk to PSA directly.

ShaunH
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