Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 466 - AVS Forum
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post #13951 of 13969 Old 09-27-2014, 07:33 AM
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Haven't seen the logo on subs.... anyone have a pic?

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post #13952 of 13969 Old 09-27-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post
Haven't seen the logo on subs.... anyone have a pic?
Take a look at post 13924!
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post #13953 of 13969 Old 09-27-2014, 07:49 AM
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Take a look at post 13924!
Thanks!

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post #13954 of 13969 Old 09-27-2014, 08:12 AM
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I want a logo too.

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post #13955 of 13969 Old 09-27-2014, 08:25 AM
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Me too...my subs are inferior with out the logo.
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post #13956 of 13969 Old 09-27-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
So I've got the xs15se hooked up, and did some initial calibrations. My room challenges aside, I'm quite impressed with the action on this bad boy. Very crisp, clean bass. I'll be doing more adjustments tomorrow.
Very good to hear Claw. Providing a Made in USA product that can compete with the very best asia built competition at any given price point isn't easy...but we're quite proud to do so..

Keep me in the loop if you bump into any other setup questions.

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post #13957 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Very good to hear Claw. Providing a Made in USA product that can compete with the very best asia built competition at any given price point isn't easy...but we're quite proud to do so..

Keep me in the loop if you bump into any other setup questions.

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So last weekend I was able to finish the basement HT setup and at long last take my own XS15se for a ride. I have to echo what ClawAndTalon just said -- I'm am very impressed with the performances offered by your smallest offering

Bass is all over the place with a single sub in that weird-shaped room but XT32 managed to do a great job at the listening position at least. I have yet to take a frequency response measurement but I was nonetheless impressed by the in-room extension achieved while listening to the usual suspects (Bass, I Love You et al.). In terms of output, well I have no complaint either as the sub isn't breaking a sweat at the levels I listened to.

It's exactly the sub I needed for that room -- it's built like a tank, it fits where I need it to be, and it's totally kid-proof.

And the most amazing thing is that my girlfriend commented on how good the sound was -- which she never did before.
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post #13958 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
So last weekend I was able to finish the basement HT setup and at long last take my own XS15se for a ride. I have to echo what ClawAndTalon just said -- I'm am very impressed with the performances offered by your smallest offering

Bass is all over the place with a single sub in that weird-shaped room but XT32 managed to do a great job at the listening position at least. I have yet to take a frequency response measurement but I was nonetheless impressed by the in-room extension achieved while listening to the usual suspects (Bass, I Love You et al.). In terms of output, well I have no complaint either as the sub isn't breaking a sweat at the levels I listened to.

It's exactly the sub I needed for that room -- it's built like a tank, it fits where I need it to be, and it's totally kid-proof.

And the most amazing thing is that my girlfriend commented on how good the sound was -- which she never did before.
neutro, what size room (approx.) are you dealing with?

I am trying to decide between a single XS15, dual XS15 or an XS30. I'm dealing with about 2,900 cu. ft., so I'm afraid that a single XS15 won't cut it. But given I don't listen at high levels, I just don't know. Guess I could always order a single and add a 2nd later, but that would cost me a little extra in shipping, etc. over ordering both at the same time.

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post #13959 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
neutro, what size room (approx.) are you dealing with?

I am trying to decide between a single XS15, dual XS15 or an XS30. I'm dealing with about 2,900 cu. ft., so I'm afraid that a single XS15 won't cut it. But given I don't listen at high levels, I just don't know. Guess I could always order a single and add a 2nd later, but that would cost me a little extra in shipping, etc. over ordering both at the same time.
Don't let the $799 price tag fool you, the XS15se is quite capable in this room size.

Remember the performance is just about equal to the very nice $1900(?) Funk fw18.0c. And most folks would have no qualms putting that in 2900 cu-ft..

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post #13960 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
neutro, what size room (approx.) are you dealing with?
It's a weird room, half of which has a very low ceiling (where the HT setup is), and with a large closet in the middle, giving it something of an annular shape. The half with the low ceiling is quite small in overall volume at around 1100 cu ft but the total volume is around 2700 cu ft. And it's open to a large corridor so who knows what acoustical trickery is taking place.

My feeling though is that sound and bass in particular is contained quite a bit in the smaller half, which helps providing a very enveloping sound. However there is lots of reverberation with the low ceiling. Bass is ultra-powerful close to the walls (and when standing if you're tall! at 6'6" your head may be close to a boundary) but quite balanced once seated.

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I am trying to decide between a single XS15, dual XS15 or an XS30. I'm dealing with about 2,900 cu. ft., so I'm afraid that a single XS15 won't cut it. But given I don't listen at high levels, I just don't know. Guess I could always order a single and add a 2nd later, but that would cost me a little extra in shipping, etc. over ordering both at the same time.
The XS15 is my first PSA sub -- I can only compare it to the SVS SB12-NSD, SVS PC12-NSD and SVS PC12-Plus. The SB12 was my first serious sub, and it's comparable to today's SVS PB-2000 with a few dB's less in output, but it's clear the XS15 has a whole lot more to offer than the SB12. It's also a very different sub physically -- downfiring, no grille, quite a bit larger, bigger driver, etc.

The PC12-NSD is at a friend's in a much larger room (which is basically his whole basement, interconnected). I have no idea what is the effective room volume but it sure is above 3000 cu ft. While it gives all it can it's just not powerful enough to offer the kind of experience I'm personally after.

The Plus cylinders (I have two of them in my main setup, the aforementioned 1680 cu ft room) are another thing entirely. They are ported, tuned to 16 Hz. While the room is small, it has a door frame (without a door) opening to a bit larger area and bass is felt everywhere in the adjacent kitchen almost at the same level as in that room, so I think the "effective" area is much larger. Each Plus would be more like an XV15se. I absolutely love the output it can provide below 20 Hz. Between the two of them they can make the house's front door rattle in its frame during Pulse's server scene. In all honesty they are overkill for the room.

So I'd say the XS15se is providing more output than the SB12-NSD for sure. Around the PC12-NSD's tuning (20 Hz), it may even have an edge, I'm not sure. The rooms where I heard each are so different it's hard to compare. One thing is for sure, the XS15se would trounce the PC12-NSD above 30 hz. However, the XS15se cannot match a 16-Hz tuned Plus under 20 Hz (and surely not duals) even with what looks like ample room gain.

As for sound quality, I'm really impressed by the XS15 -- even if I strongly dislike the audiophile vocabulary it indeed sounds clear and tight for lack of a better word.

I'm confident a single XS30 or dual XS15 would be great in your case, although 2900 cu ft is a bit big for a single XS15. As you say though, you wouldn't lose much if you wanted to try one first before ordering a second one (... of either an XS15 or an XS30). That being said I'm very curious about what a ported PSA would do.

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post #13961 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
It's a weird room, half of which has a very low ceiling (where the HT setup is), and with a large closet in the middle, giving it something of an annular shape. The half with the low ceiling is quite small in overall volume at around 1100 cu ft but the total volume is around 2700 cu ft. And it's open to a large corridor so who knows what acoustical trickery is taking place.

My feeling though is that sound and bass in particular is contained quite a bit in the smaller half, which helps providing a very enveloping sound. However there is lots of reverberation with the low ceiling. Bass is ultra-powerful close to the walls (and when standing if you're tall! at 6'6" your head may be close to a boundary) but quite balanced once seated.



The XS15 is my first PSA sub -- I can only compare it to the SVS SB12-NSD, SVS PC12-NSD and SVS PC12-Plus. The SB12 was my first serious sub, and it's comparable to today's SVS PB-2000 with a few dB's less in output, but it's clear the XS15 has a whole lot more to offer than the SB12. It's also a very different sub physically -- downfiring, no grille, quite a bit larger, bigger driver, etc.

The PC12-NSD is at a friend's in a much larger room (which is basically his whole basement, interconnected). I have no idea what is the effective room volume but it sure is above 3000 cu ft. While it gives all it can it's just not powerful enough to offer the kind of experience I'm personally after.

The Plus cylinders (I have two of them in my main setup, the aforementioned 1680 cu ft room) are another thing entirely. They are ported, tuned to 16 Hz. While the room is small, it has a door frame (without a door) opening to a bit larger area and bass is felt everywhere in the adjacent kitchen almost at the same level as in that room, so I think the "effective" area is much larger. Each Plus would be more like an XV15se. I absolutely love the output it can provide below 20 Hz. Between the two of them they can make the house's front door rattle in its frame during Pulse's server scene. In all honesty they are overkill for the room.

So I'd say the XS15se is providing more output than the SB12-NSD for sure. Around the PC12-NSD's tuning (20 Hz), it may even have an edge, I'm not sure. The rooms where I heard each are so different it's hard to compare. One thing is for sure, the XS15se would trounce the PC12-NSD above 30 hz. However, the XS15se cannot match a 16-Hz tuned Plus under 20 Hz (and surely not duals) even with what looks like ample room gain.

As for sound quality, I'm really impressed by the XS15 -- even if I strongly dislike the audiophile vocabulary it indeed sounds clear and tight for lack of a better word.

I'm confident a single XS30 or dual XS15 would be great in your case, although 2900 cu ft is a bit big for a single XS15. As you say though, you wouldn't lose much if you wanted to try one first before ordering a second one (... of either an XS15 or an XS30). That being said I'm very curious about what a ported PSA would do.

Thanks for your reply.

I've been talking with Tom several times and he has indicated that I could possibly get down in the single digits with dual XS15se, given room gain. But, I don't have any way of verifying that, and I don't listen at high volumes.

I've also considered dual PC-12 Pluses, but this stretches the WAF-budget a bit; although I do kind of like the cylinder form factor.

If budget and space were no problem, I would possibly just go for dual XS30, but I don't think this is in my future.

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post #13962 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM
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I've been talking with Tom several times and he has indicated that I could possibly get down in the single digits with dual XS15se, given room gain. But, I don't have any way of verifying that, and I don't listen at high volumes.
I am really looking forward to perform a frequency response measurement with the XS15se. I'm pretty sure it digs quite a bit deeper than the SB12-NSD -- I'm clearly perceiving the 17 Hz note, although not as powerfully than with the dual Pluses. That being said I haven't listened that loud yet with the PSA sub. Which brings me to the second part of the comment: to perceive 20 Hz output you pretty much have to listen at a higher level as it's basically subsonic tactile feelings. If you're convinced you won't be able to listen at those levels even from time to time, low-end extension is more or less irrelevant in my opinion.

Quote:
I've also considered dual PC-12 Pluses, but this stretches the WAF-budget a bit; although I do kind of like the cylinder form factor.
The Plus -- even the cylinders -- may be a bit overpriced given that they are basically the same price as an XS30. However I really, really like the cylinder form factor. I couldn't have dual subs this big in the main setup if it weren't for that particular shape.

Then again the sturdy downward-firing sealed box form factor of the XS15se wasn't in SVS's catalog and I had no interest in Outlaw or Chase subs

Quote:
I would possibly just go for dual XS30, but I don't think this is in my future.
Well get one now and leave the rest to fate

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post #13963 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM
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to perceive 20 Hz output you pretty much have to listen at a higher level as it's basically subsonic tactile feelings. If you're convinced you won't be able to listen at those levels even from time to time, low-end extension is more or less irrelevant in my opinion.
This^^is really the rub for me, and where I struggle to really understand how to translate the CEA-2010 data into useful information for my particular situation.

If my listening levels are never going to be high enough for me to even perceive the stuff down below 20 or 15 or whatever - even if the particular sub is spec'd, and will actually go that low or lower - then maybe I'm not even looking at the right options for me.

Dual PC-12 NSD's, for instance, might give me all I need, or can usably expect to get considering my listening habits - and they would be much less than most other dual options, and only slightly more than a single XS15.

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post #13964 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM
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This^^is really the rub for me, and where I struggle to really understand how to translate the CEA-2010 data into useful information for my particular situation.

If my listening levels are never going to be high enough for me to even perceive the stuff down below 20 or 15 or whatever - even if the particular sub is spec'd, and will actually go that low or lower - then maybe I'm not even looking at the right options for me.
What you say is spot on, but there is a caveat. Once you have a setup that is capable of strong sub-20 Hz output, you tend to try it once in a while

I guess you're roughly in my situation a few years ago. Not sure if you know many people in NB with large HT setups where you could experience a good sub before buying one yourself; I for one didn't knew of anybody else. So it's a bit a leap of faith in that regard. You may even dislike the very low stuff -- my GF certainly doesn't particularly like it.

But while I don't have lots of occasion to listen at the volume I'd like, I do so once in a while and I think it's worth it.

Quote:
Dual PC-12 NSD's, for instance, might give me all I need, or can usably expect to get considering my listening habits - and they would be much less than most other dual options, and only slightly more than a single XS15.
Indeed we Canadians face tough choices right now With local taxes that are applied unevenly depending on where the sub is sold, shipping, and change rate, you really have to take all this into account before making the choice. Final cost for me was almost CAD 1100 -- which sounds much less sexy than 799 isn't it? At least I have exactly the sub I wanted for my particular situation: this alone is worth a lot

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post #13965 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 12:50 PM
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I have just upgraded my Onkyo pre/pro to and Anthem AVR. Anthem's ARC has my XS30 tighter and more authoritative than ever with localization being non existent and feeling like I have a whole new sub-woofer !! Pacific Rim nearly tore down the house
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post #13966 of 13969 Old Yesterday, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
neutro, what size room (approx.) are you dealing with?

I am trying to decide between a single XS15, dual XS15 or an XS30. I'm dealing with about 2,900 cu. ft., so I'm afraid that a single XS15 won't cut it. But given I don't listen at high levels, I just don't know. Guess I could always order a single and add a 2nd later, but that would cost me a little extra in shipping, etc. over ordering both at the same time.
My room is about the same as yours maybe a little smaller, my dual XS30SEs blow my room apart. I would start with one for now and add the second if you think you need it. I'm getting a third sub (XS15SE) as I really need an end table to put my remotes on.
Cheers Jeff

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post #13967 of 13969 Old Today, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Indeed we Canadians face tough choices right now With local taxes that are applied unevenly depending on where the sub is sold, shipping, and change rate, you really have to take all this into account before making the choice. Final cost for me was almost CAD 1100 -- which sounds much less sexy than 799 isn't it? At least I have exactly the sub I wanted for my particular situation: this alone is worth a lot



Yup my feelings exactly....final price in cdn $$$ to our door seems a lot less sexy...when all the particular are put into place. Add a custom finish certainly enhances the appeal but not in the wallet. In the end....the XS30 was exactly what I was looking for came in a pretty package and fit the budget barely...for any sub remotely close to it in terms of entirety (SQ, extension and output) IMO would have come at about the same cost and likely MUCH higher.

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post #13968 of 13969 Old Today, 07:34 AM
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I have just upgraded my Onkyo pre/pro to and Anthem AVR. Anthem's ARC has my XS30 tighter and more authoritative than ever with localization being non existent and feeling like I have a whole new sub-woofer !! Pacific Rim nearly tore down the house
What speakers are you running with the XS30....I've experimented a ton with ARC and I seem to prefer large with sub flat & xo at 60hz...for music... no localization issues at all. The prefect balance between mains and sub....I'd say.

BTW..here is a nice Q&A with some of the design team at Anthem...good read if your inclined.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...k-platsis.html

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