Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 467 - AVS Forum
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post #13981 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
My pleasure



Ok so it's not as low as the Rhytmik FV15HP, say.



The question is, will it be *flat* to 10 Hz. Because, say, you reach "good output" at 10 Hz but it's 6 dB under your 20-80 Hz output. Will you really notice it? Furthermore as Tom said, while -15 to -10 dB from reference is moderately loud, I don't think you can expect to be swept away by sub-20 Hz output when listening at -25 dB.

I know because when watching movies with my GF with the kids tucked in bed, we rarely go above -25 dB and the circa 20 Hz rumbles are rather subtle even with DynamicEQ on.



That's a good point. What's the titular 10 Hz-content scene? Perhaps Black Hawk Down's F'ing Irene scene? I watched it yesterday on Jindrak's demo disc (because I wanted to debug XBMC LPCM playthrough on my HTPC but that's another story), on both of my setups, and I never was that impressed, because presumably they can't muster enough oomph at 10 Hz. I'm not sure what else to watch to test circa-10 Hz output, and I everybody on AVS that I see having lots of fun with that scene have dozens of kW at hands and multiple 18" IB or sealed drivers.

Like you basshead, I decided to put my money on good 15-20 Hz performance and it delivers, but then again only when I can raise the volume above -20 dB from ref
The FV15HP native tuning frequency is 14hz, so no the XV does not extend nearly as deep. Yea -20 is not going to give you much in the ELF department unless you are running a house curve. No the XS15 would not be anywhere near flat @ reference down to 10hz. To achieve a flat 115db from 10-100hz takes some major subage.
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post #13982 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK guys, what would you do?

I've been messing with sub placement for what seem like forever. See this thread if you want to know the details.

Anyways, I've basically narrowed it down to 2 different configurations:

- 2 up front / 2 in back
- all 4 up front / 2 stacks of 2

This is with 4 XS15s (original, non-SE).

Here's the measurements:



Here's the waterfall comparison:





Green is front/back, red is stacked up front. As you can see, I'm getting much better extension with all 4 up front (+20db at 10hz!), but I have a huge suck-out from 55-67hz. I prefer the sound with all 4 up front, but seat-to-seat variance suffers...heck, if I just lean forward in my chair the response changes significantly. That being said, I rarely move around when watching a movie or doing critical music listening...and my wife couldn't care less. It could just be in my head, but I swear I miss that narrow band where the null is....it is pretty narrow though...prolly in my head.

Oh, and when I have all 4 up front, I only have to run the subs 4db hot. When they are in the rear I bump them up 7db.

I want to get a couple more subs to put in the back of the room fill in that null and smooth across seats, but until funds become available....which set up would you want to live with?? Do you think upgrading all 4 to SE would be worthwhile or no?
I would go with 2 up front and 2 in the back if you can adjust phase and or delay to eliminate the low frequency cancellation occurring. Normally, phase issues result in cancellation at low frequencies(such as with one ported and one sealed)and that looks like exactly what you have. I know that when I adjust phase on my second sub, output below 30 Hz drops noticeably the more they get out of phase. As the phase aligns, output steadily goes up until the point where they are set up properly.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #13983 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM
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+1 to what Bear said.
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post #13984 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The FV15HP native tuning frequency is 14hz, so no the XV does not extend nearly as deep.
Correction: The FV15hp native tuning is 12Hz.
Straight from Rythmik product page
Multi-tune

18hz (2 port) and 12hz (1 port)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK guys, what would you do?
I want to get a couple more subs to put in the back of the room fill in that null and smooth across seats, but until funds become available....which set up would you want to live with?? Do you think upgrading all 4 to SE would be worthwhile or no?
4 upfront then adding an XS30 to the back nearfield to resolve the null and gain tactile feeling= DONE Upgrading to SE's probably will not change shape of your graph by much and it is probably more expensive than just adding an XS30 especially if you can find one used?
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post #13985 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Correction: The FV15hp native tuning is 12Hz.
Straight from Rythmik product page
Multi-tune

18hz (2 port) and 12hz (1 port)
I pulled that info from data bass.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51
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post #13986 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM
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^^ and it says 12hz tuning frequency in 1 port mode tested
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post #13987 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ and it says 12hz tuning frequency in 1 port mode tested

It says that the tuning frequency of the test in single port mode is 12hz, but the native tuning frequency is 14hz
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post #13988 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 08:40 PM
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^^ I think it's Ricci's mistake. Rythmik clearly states 12hz tuning plus why would Ricci tested it below its tuning if it was 14?
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post #13989 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ and it says 12hz tuning frequency in 1 port mode tested
That has nothing to do with it's "native" tuning point.

The whole point that I was trying to make is the FV15HP digs lower then the XV15 anyway.
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post #13990 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ I think it's Ricci's mistake. Rythmik clearly states 12hz tuning plus why would Ricci tested it below its tuning if it was 14?

How long has he had that review up for now? A long time and "if" it was a mistake I'm sure it would have been corrected a long time ago.
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post #13991 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The whole point that I was trying to make is the FV15HP digs lower then the XV15 anyway.
I know your point. Someone asked that question and Rythmik said 12hz tuning in 1 port. Ok, now back to the regular PSA discussion

Last edited by tvuong; Yesterday at 09:13 PM.
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post #13992 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ I think it's Ricci's mistake. Rythmik clearly states 12hz tuning plus why would Ricci tested it below its tuning if it was 14?

Ricci states 12hz tune in 1 port, 18hz tune in 2 port, and 14hz native tune.
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post #13993 of 13994 Old Yesterday, 09:12 PM
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^^ I don't understand the 'native' tune as it can be either operated in one or two ports and nothing in between?
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post #13994 of 13994 Old Today, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
What speakers are you running with the XS30....I've experimented a ton with ARC and I seem to prefer large with sub flat & xo at 60hz...for music... no localization issues at all. The prefect balance between mains and sub....I'd say.

BTW..here is a nice Q&A with some of the design team at Anthem...good read if your inclined.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...k-platsis.html
Thanks for the link! I am using Klipsh Forte's as mains and just starting to play around with ARC. These mains perform very well with lower frequencies so trying settings similar to what you are using will be in the near future.

How much change did you notice from your XS30 when you upgraded to SE?
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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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