Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 508 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Jeff, if I were you, I would install crowson transducers on your seating. They are not as cheap as some of the transducers, but you seem to prefer quality over "cheap". The DIY guys with the most capable and extensive multiple 18" driver subwoofer setups say that even with their "above reference capable, flat to 7 Hz systems", that transducers were the best addition they ever made to their system. You seem like a, within reason, spare no expense kind of guy. So figured I would plant that seed as the Crowsons usually result in a "why the heck did I wait so long to do this" type of thing. Apparently, they give an incredible tactile and realistic effect in the very low frequencies that no amount of subwoofer can replicate.
Thanks Bear, how many do you reco with say a 82" couch or a 60" loveseat, seriously. As far as selling your subs just being honest have you thought about upgrading your speakers first. I watched Pulse last night for the first time with the 210s and dual XS30SEs and my chair was flopping, my hair was blowing and my chest was hurting. I still want the Crowsons tho and more subs
Cheers Jeff
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:21 PM
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I think they are one of the best subs available at their price point. Just thinking about trying something different(increased capability obviously) Don't know for sure if this will by DIY, or a more monstrous ID option. Might be relocating my HT stuff to a more dedicated space. As of right now, it is sort of like driving a Formula 1 car back and forth to the grocery store.
Hey Bear, are you looking for something that will dig a bit deeper or are have you looked at that photo of the Orbit Shifter one too many times and decided you needed something in that realm?
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Thanks Bear, how many do you reco with say a 82" couch or a 60" loveseat, seriously. As far as selling your subs just being honest have you thought about upgrading your speakers first. I watched Pulse last night for the first time with the 210s and dual XS30SEs and my chair was flopping, my hair was blowing and my chest was hurting. I still want the Crowsons tho and more subs
Cheers Jeff
Whatever extreme case of bass-itis you have Jefferey, I don't want any part of it.

Hears to hoping dual T-18s is enough for me.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:58 AM
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Another T18 update.

So it turns out the newer isolation transformers I used were passing low frequencies, unfortunately it was also clipping signals. They were fine running test tones and sweeps, but when watching movies with explosions and rumbles, I could hear the clipping. I then verified that was the case by removing the transformers and rerunning the scenes with a direct connection. So the isolation transformers will be returned.

So my new solution is using wireless subwoofer kits. Unfortunately my receiver is out of range for the kits to work directly connected, so I ended up just having the transmitters connected to the LFE cables that are already in the theater room and putting them across the room from the receivers connected to the subwoofers. It is a stupidly complicated setup, but so far it seems to be working. initial tests I am getting deep extension and haven't noticed any clipping. Audyssey did end up setting the subwoofer distances at about 30 ft to compensate for the latency, but I haven't noticed any problems.

So stay tuned, next week I'll probably find a glaring issue with this solution and have to find something else to try.
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Old 11-30-2014, 08:19 AM
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Just ordered a xs30se in black ash to put under the Christmas Tree (wife's present to me!). I had started to look at the Rythmik FV15HP lately, but the customer service of Tom and being able to chat with him at will won out, as I am sure both subs are very, very good. Looking forward to watching some Blu Ray movies!
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Whatever extreme case of bass-itis you have Jefferey, I don't want any part of it.

Hears to hoping dual T-18s is enough for me.
LOL, hey I just hope Jeff's bass-itis isn't contagious or transmittable through web pages because if it is we are all in trouble and so are our wallets.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:28 PM
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@Hop , I think it's working as Jim tells me that they are bombarded with new sub orders so I'll just keep spreading my subitis. Any way I downloaded the RS meter correction frequency chart with the attached files from 10Hz to 20kHz but I could only download from 16Hz to 160 Hz. My point is I set the MV on my receiver at 0 and ran the tones with just the subs on (XS30SEs) the gain on the subs was at 2:00 and trim was at -5dB. Ok with the RS SPL meter set at 100dB C weighting and slow response I played the 16Hz tone and the meter was showing 100dB which was about 13' from my subs and then 20Hz and 26Hz and again 100dB on meter. So I looked at the correction files for these FRs and @ 16Hz it says to add +11.5dB to the 100dB I got on the meter, @20hz add +7.5 and 26Hz add +5dB, so if I'm reading this right at 16Hz I'm getting 111.5 dB output, correct. I wish I can download that 10Hz tone as it says to add +20dB to the RS meter's output. I don't know why but lately my dual XS30SEs are really coming to life and all that tactile feel is there and I'm on concrete over carpet. Jim and I were talking and we agreed that two more XS30SEs right behind my MLP should give me what I'm looking for I checked out the Crowsons and what I want is $2400, I could just get two more subs for that amount, even less expensive. I wonder if I'm doing any structural damage to my house even though it's mostly a concrete bunker.
Cheers Jeff
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Old 11-30-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
Just ordered a xs30se in black ash to put under the Christmas Tree (wife's present to me!). I had started to look at the Rythmik FV15HP lately, but the customer service of Tom and being able to chat with him at will won out, as I am sure both subs are very, very good. Looking forward to watching some Blu Ray movies!

I did the same thing but mine accidentally skipped getting wrapped and is hooked up!
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Old 11-30-2014, 03:42 PM
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Everyone runs their subs at -5, -6. On my yamaha 2010 with a XS30se, I have to run +5 or +6 at 3 o'clock. I'm running it with a Paradigm sub and it runs at -3.5. They play nice together just a big setting difference.
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Old 11-30-2014, 04:03 PM
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I've heard Yamaha's have a weaker output.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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Old 11-30-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
Just ordered a xs30se in black ash to put under the Christmas Tree (wife's present to me!). I had started to look at the Rythmik FV15HP lately, but the customer service of Tom and being able to chat with him at will won out, as I am sure both subs are very, very good. Looking forward to watching some Blu Ray movies!
I went on there site today and started chatting with Tom V. Next thing I am ordering 2 - XS15se's. Which I was planning on ordering something this weekend anyway. He just helped me make up my mind. This is my Christmas present to me.
Except I wont wait until Christmas to hook them up! I will hook them up as soon as I get them so I can try them for the full 30 days to see if these twin sealed subs is what I am looking for. I know they will be way better than what I have now. An old Pioneer joke of a sub that I don't even have hooked up any longer.


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Old 11-30-2014, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I've heard Yamaha's have a weaker output.


not on my RX-V773...I have my XV15's set at 2:00 on the amps and Ypao set my Sub trim -3.5db after running a 8point measurement. If I only do a single point measurement, Ypao sets the trim -6.5db. I manually bump the trim up to 0 and I have enough bass to blur your vision @ MV -0.
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Old 11-30-2014, 04:33 PM
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Those two Xs15se's will smoke that pioneer sub you have I'm sure!
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Old 11-30-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I've heard Yamaha's have a weaker output.


not on my RX-V773...I have my XV15's set at 2:00 on the amps and Ypao set my Sub trim -3.5db after running a 8point measurement. If I only do a single point measurement, Ypao sets the trim -6.5db. I manually bump the trim up to 0 and I have enough bass to blur your vision @ MV -0.
I've been at work the last few days, but I'm off tomorrow. I have to run YPAO again because when I ran it before I would get an error W-2 failed on both subs.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:25 PM
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How do you all run Audyssey? I ran it twice today and got two pretty different results for my subs (see below). This graph is of my center channel and the 4 triax subs. One run has a nice natural house curve. I ran Audyssey at 8 positions all working a foot of each other both times. The only difference other than that is that I was sitting in different spots each run. I guess the other variable is if I had the REW mic in the exact same spot



I know that the Audyssey sub distance tweak has been takes about here several times. Here is a before and after of doing this process using my center and subs.



This above graph is from my first Audyssey calibration today - the one that produced the nice house curve above. Interestingly, the second run I did today that doesn't have the nice house curve produced a perfect integration between the center and subs. I wasnt able to improve upon it with the sub distance tweak.

Last edited by raynist; 11-30-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 11-30-2014, 06:37 PM
 
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Still cant get over 12k in subs haha

Anyhow could the difference be dynEQ on and off?
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Old 11-30-2014, 06:46 PM
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Ray,
It looks to me that the purple curve is with Audessey off and the green one is with Audessey on?
You can even improve your FR around your 80hz xover (I assume from graph) further with distance tweak.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I went on there site today and started chatting with Tom V. Next thing I am ordering 2 - XS15se's. Which I was planning on ordering something this weekend anyway. He just helped me make up my mind. This is my Christmas present to me.
Except I wont wait until Christmas to hook them up! I will hook them up as soon as I get them so I can try them for the full 30 days to see if these twin sealed subs is what I am looking for. I know they will be way better than what I have now. An old Pioneer joke of a sub that I don't even have hooked up any longer.
Congrats on your Christmas presents. They should make you very happy.
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Old 11-30-2014, 08:29 PM
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Ray,
It looks to me that the purple curve is with Audessey off and the green one is with Audessey on?
You can even improve your FR around your 80hz xover (I assume from graph) further with distance tweak.
Hey Tony,

That graph is from two different Audyssey calibrations that i did today, not sure why there was such a difference.

The second graph is before and after the sub distance tweak.
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Old 11-30-2014, 08:32 PM
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Still cant get over 12k in subs haha

Anyhow could the difference be dynEQ on and off?
I try not not to think about how much money I have spent on this hobby, it gets depressing!!!

Dyn EQ was on for both of these.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:21 PM
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Hey Tony,

That graph is from two different Audyssey calibrations that i did today, not sure why there was such a difference.

The second graph is before and after the sub distance tweak.
Some thing must go wrong unless both of your Audessey mic and usb mic are really far away between the first and second Audessey run. What I do is that I mark my chair (MLP) at ear level with crayon where I mount the Audessey mic on the mic stand. I then use tape measurement to measure how high to the top of the Audessey mic from the floor and how far from the mic to the back wall. This way, once I am done running Audessey, I place the top of my UMIK-1 at the exact position of my first Audessey mic position to measure my FR. It also helps to position the other seven Audessey positions using the measured position as a reference point. Your FR should be flatter with your 4 subs. I assume the two front subs are connected thru AVR sub1 and the rear two thru sub2 using gain match?
Regarding your subs distances tweak, it gets better but try to increase or decrease more distances (the same way you were doing) to flatten it more.

Last edited by tvuong; 11-30-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:38 PM
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looks too me like you are missing out on a lot of mid bass...have you tried for a flatter response? I think house curves are great but 15db difference from 18-100hz seems like a bunch.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:47 PM
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looks too me like you are missing out on a lot of mid bass...have you tried for a flatter response? I think house curves are great but 15db difference from 18-100hz seems like a bunch.
I am going to have to look back on some of my old graphs. I don't memember having such a huge peak at 15hz before, the placement of the subs hasn't changed since I first got them.

Those graphs where with Dyn EQ on and also with the subs 5-6 hot from where Audyssey set them.

Last edited by raynist; 11-30-2014 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Some thing must go wrong unless both of your Audessey mic and usb mic are really far away between the first and second Audessey run. What I do is that I mark my chair (MLP) at ear level with crayon where I mount the Audessey mic on the mic stand. I then use tape measurement to measure how high to the top of the Audessey mic from the floor and how far from the mic to the back wall. This way, once I am done running Audessey, I place the top of my UMIK-1 at the exact position of my first Audessey mic position to measure my FR. It also helps to position the other seven Audessey positions using the measured position as a reference point. Your FR should be flatter with your 4 subs. I assume the two front subs are connected thru AVR sub1 and the rear two thru sub2 using gain match?
Regarding your subs distances tweak, it gets better but try to increase or decrease more distances (the same way you were doing) to flatten it more.
I was not that precise when I ran Audyssey. I ran it for 8 positions both times, but not the exact same 8 positions. All positions were within a foot of my MLP. The first position was the same for both runs. All of the distances were exactly the same in Audyssey after each run. Will run it again later this week.

I know there used to be a chart from the people that developed Audyssey saying exactly how to measure each position, does anyone have that?
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Old 11-30-2014, 11:17 PM
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Ray,
You need to turn DynEQ OFF unless you had your MV at 0 when measuring (does not look like you did from viewing your graph). DynEq boosts bass the further you are out with less than reference 0 MV.
I don't remember the diagram Audessey recommends but here's how mine was done: all positions are a foot apart. Should be close to what Auddessey recommends.
5 4 6
2 1 3
- 7 8

Last edited by tvuong; 11-30-2014 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:36 AM
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Ray,

I've gotten that same kind of graph a few times in REW with the wavering response down low. If I do another sweep, it usually turns out fine. Did you try another sweep after the one with the wacky response??
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:23 AM
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Ray,
You need to turn DynEQ OFF unless you had your MV at 0 when measuring (does not look like you did from viewing your graph). DynEtq boosts bass the further you are out with less than reference 0 MV.
I don't remember the diagram Audessey recommends but here's how mine was done: all positions are a foot apart. Should be close to what Auddessey recommends.
5 4 6
2 1 3
- 7 8
Thanks - I will try this later this week. I might look into getting a boom mic stand.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:23 AM
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Ray,

I've gotten that same kind of graph a few times in REW with the wavering response down low. If I do another sweep, it usually turns out fine. Did you try another sweep after the one with the wacky response??
I did not.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:19 AM
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Thanks - I will try this later this week. I might look into getting a boom mic stand.
Boom mic stand makes it so much easier to precisely place the mic. Make sure to get an adapter to mount your mics. Search the Auddesey thread for the stand and adapter. Amazon has them. I got mine from guitar center locally.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:34 AM
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Boom mic stand made a pretty big difference when calibrating my system as well as focusing the mic in a tight pattern around the MLP. Before that I was just placing the mic all around the room on top of cushions.
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Display - LG OLED
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