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post #15481 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 10:38 AM
 
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I'm not talking about. Sub distance tweak. I'm referring to finding the best xover.
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post #15482 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
No I was not limited with my placement options...I had them everywhere in my room except on my lap and hung from the ceiling.

Oh okay, for some reason I thought I remember see a picture of your room and it didn't look like there was very many location options for all three. Hung from the ceiling could be rather interesting though!....lol
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post #15483 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I'm not talking about. Sub distance tweak. I'm referring to finding the best xover.
Ah - ok.
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post #15484 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 12:08 PM
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While we are on the subject of REW, I am looking at getting a new MacBook when I get my first XS30se. Will REW work on a mac? Do I need any special features or anything to look for in the laptop?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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post #15485 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 01:22 PM
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So here is the best I could get my graph. I tried main crossover from 40 to 250. The 250 + mains get the least amount of dips. Really not sure what else to do I tried it with and without the CC and adjusted the CC from 40-200. It didn't really make a difference.
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post #15486 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 01:57 PM
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It's pretty much my subs. I just disconnected my mains, shut every other speaker off in the receiver, and then ran 1 sub, then dual subs. I am by far a mediocre REW user at best, but I think the measurements still show something is wrong.
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post #15487 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
While we are on the subject of REW, I am looking at getting a new MacBook when I get my first XS30se. Will REW work on a mac? Do I need any special features or anything to look for in the laptop?
Yes it will work. http://johnr.hifizine.com/2013/02/room-eq-wizard-on-the-mac-an-input-workaround/


Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
So here is the best I could get my graph. I tried main crossover from 40 to 250. The 250 + mains get the least amount of dips. Really not sure what else to do I tried it with and without the CC and adjusted the CC from 40-200. It didn't really make a difference.
Sorry if I missed it. But 1 sub or 2?
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post #15488 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Yes it will work. http://johnr.hifizine.com/2013/02/ro...ut-workaround/




Sorry if I missed it. But 1 sub or 2?


That one was with 2 subs. I made two posts in a row. My second post had everything disconnected except testing one sub or two.

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post #15489 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:18 PM
 
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This are the weirdest graphs I have ever seen

Initial thought is they are out of phase. But it looks like that with only one sub.

Where in the room are they located?
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post #15490 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
This are the weirdest graphs I have ever seen

Initial thought is they are out of phase. But it looks like that with only one sub.

Where in the room are they located?


They are about 16 inches from the back wall now and located at the 1/4 and 3/4 marks from the side walls on the front. The front is right at 12 feet across. I also moved the mic from the MLP to 6" in front and 6 in behind the 1 speaker test. The results show the behind is the best. I am beginning to think 1 forward facing sub is a better option.
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post #15491 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
HDMI is by far the easiest way imo. I know several had troubles with the ASIO drivers with 8.1. Lucky for my I am using a windows 7 laptop and a older copy of REW that does not use ASIO.
I had trouble with the ASIO drivers and Windows 8.1 and could not get it to work and wasted way too much time trying to get it to work so I went with the Java drivers and used the RCA cable approach and it works fine. It makes me feel better to see I was not alone having trouble with the HDMI and ASIO drivers.
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post #15492 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
They are about 16 inches from the back wall now and located at the 1/4 and 3/4 marks from the side walls on the front. The front is right at 12 feet across. I also moved the mic from the MLP to 6" in front and 6 in behind the 1 speaker test. The results show the behind is the best. I am beginning to think 1 forward facing sub is a better option.
I am very confused about what you are talking about :/
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post #15493 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I am very confused about what you are talking about :/


If you look at the picture the subs are 16 inches from the back wall. Also, multiple articles on line recommend placing dual subs at the 1/4 and 3/4 marks on the front wall as you are looking at them. So they are both 3 feet from the side walls to the center of the subs woofer and 16 inches from the back wall.

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post #15494 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:51 PM
 
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I think you need 1 in front and 1 in back.

Just cause articles say it works doesn't mean it's the best as you can see

From everything I have read, symmetrical placement on the front wall is less than optimal. Try one in the front corner either one. Then one in the opposite rear corner.
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post #15495 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
If you look at the picture the subs are 16 inches from the back wall. Also, multiple articles on line recommend placing dual subs at the 1/4 and 3/4 marks on the front wall as you are looking at them. So they are both 3 feet from the side walls to the center of the subs woofer and 16 inches from the back wall.
You have XS30's right? If you do try rotating them 90degrees so that the one driver is firing towards your side walls. When I had my XS30's having the one driver firing to the side walls instead of firing at my first row really helped smooth out my room response.
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post #15496 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 03:18 PM
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Okay as of right now I am pretty much tapped out with locations for my subs. This is the best graph I have and it's similar to one I posted a few days ago. My roll off from 30Hz to 21Hz is about 4 to 5 dbs then from 21Hz there is a quick drop to 15Hz.

That roll off is there (in varying degrees) all over the room except with one setup and that setup was beautiful from 15 to 50Hz and then it fell apart with horrible nulls at 50 , 60, and 80Hz so I couldn't use that setup. But if I had a third sub I think I know exactly where I could put it to really flatten out the lower end. However I can't go that route now.

Haven't tried the sub distance tweak yet but that will be next. After doing that I'm think of getting the minidsp to pull down the two humps (from 32Hz to 46Hz and from 58 to 76Hz) If I did that I think I could get the response pretty flat in the room.

So my question to you guys in the know is, am I looking at going about this correctly?

The graph has blue as center, red as right and green as left.
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post #15497 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
You have XS30's right? If you do try rotating them 90degrees so that the one driver is firing towards your side walls. When I had my XS30's having the one driver firing to the side walls instead of firing at my first row really helped smooth out my room response.


I do and I have tried them in about another 20 different configs. I give up, I have put them back to what make my room look best. I am convinced that dual firing subs is the wrong solution for my room. I will have to look into a way to sell these. Might try the Rythmic FV15HP single and see what it does. My room is not that big, I shouldn't need dual subs.


This last pic is worse than where I started I tried where they were at and couldn't get it back to where it was.
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post #15498 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 05:04 PM
 
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It has nothing to do with the drivers. It's your room and your mlp.

No offense but something isn't righy. These are some of the worst graphs I have seen. I am not convinced you are measuring correctly.

Also play with the phase on one sub. Make sure its opposite the other sub. Try that and report back
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post #15499 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
It has nothing to do with the drivers. It's your room and your mlp.

No offense but something isn't righy. These are some of the worst graphs I have seen. I am not convinced you are measuring correctly.

Also play with the phase on one sub. Make sure its opposite the other sub. Try that and report back

I may not be doing it correctly. I just don't think REW is that easy, but I have followed the directions, even managed to trouble shoot the ASIO setup vs Java and got my UMIK to show up. Whether I ran with JAVA or ASIO, I got the same results. The room is only 12.5 x 21 and I have a riser in back. Not a lot I can change on my MLP, so basically I built a room that sucks for HT.

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post #15500 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 05:16 PM
 
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While we are on the subject of REW, I am looking at getting a new MacBook when I get my first XS30se. Will REW work on a mac? Do I need any special features or anything to look for in the laptop?
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
So here is the best I could get my graph. I tried main crossover from 40 to 250. The 250 + mains get the least amount of dips. Really not sure what else to do I tried it with and without the CC and adjusted the CC from 40-200. It didn't really make a difference.
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I may not be doing it correctly. I just don't think REW is that easy, but I have followed the directions, even managed to trouble shoot the ASIO setup vs Java and got my UMIK to show up. Whether I ran with JAVA or ASIO, I got the same results. The room is only 12.5 x 21 and I have a riser in back. Not a lot I can change on my MLP, so basically I built a room that sucks for HT.
Haha no. The room should be ok. Try the phase thing
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post #15501 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 05:37 PM
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Oh okay, for some reason I thought I remember see a picture of your room and it didn't look like there was very many location options for all three. Hung from the ceiling could be rather interesting though!....lol


lol..Yea I moved furniture around to accommodate them in different locations. It just so happened nearfield provided the best response.
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post #15502 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Haha no. The room should be ok. Try the phase thing


Are you talking about the Audeyssey sub tweak? I may later, but I am done for the day. I still think dual drivers matter. I had a smoother response when I had the mic between the wall and the sub.


I just re ran audeyssey. I am sticking with this for now. I get better responses the higher I go on the main crossovers.
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post #15503 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 06:08 PM
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I forgot to mention, the smoothest response I got today was when I had 1 sub about a third of the way from the front wall against the left wall. The drivers were facing forward and backward. I did try one sub front right and left rear, no real change. I tried multiple across the front drivers facing sides, front/rear configurations. Nothing really was any better than the other. I even tried 45 degree angles towards the corners. Mix all these up with left and right changes and it was a lot of changes and right now wasted time.

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post #15504 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 06:43 PM
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Sorry, I haven't read everything you have posted.

Have you tried co-locating them?

I have dual XS-30se's.

Symetrical placement was terrible perfomance wise.

Co-locating made a measurable difference.

Last edited by Soulfly737; 12-14-2014 at 08:04 PM.
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post #15505 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 06:59 PM
 
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No the phase knob on the back of the sub they should be opposite. 1 @ 180 1@ 0

They look like they are canceling each out
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post #15506 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
No the phase knob on the back of the sub they should be opposite. 1 @ 180 1@ 0

They look like they are canceling each out


You are the first person to mention that and it looks like I have some improvement. It took it from a 15-20db drop at the 65-85Hz range to 5db at the same ranges. WOW! Thanks What's next?




UPDATE:
OK, while changing the phase on the subs to opposite's really helped flatten out the dip, their no chest thump or room rumble. The Atmos Amaze demo was shaking the room before and you could really feel the rumble of the thunder. That's my rumble test. My impact test is in Star Trek when the feet is getting ready to all head to Vulcan and the same time and the Enterprise has the "parking brake" on. When each ship warps out, it hit's your in the chest. That was diminished with the phase shift, the rumble from the thunder in Amaze was completely gone.
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post #15507 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 09:28 PM
 
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Glad I could help.

You have to understand what you were hearing before wasn't a good response.

It does take getting used to a flat response when used to bloated FR. Chest thump is in the higher range. From 80-200.

Try adding dynEQ see if you like it

But your response looks MUCH better
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post #15508 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Glad I could help.

You have to understand what you were hearing before wasn't a good response.

It does take getting used to a flat response when used to bloated FR. Chest thump is in the higher range. From 80-200.

Try adding dynEQ see if you like it

But your response looks MUCH better

Yes, that looks so much better.

Something is up with the mic calibration though. Look at the db scale - some show 140db's and one graph was hitting 185db's.
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post #15509 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
You are the first person to mention that and it looks like I have some improvement. It took it from a 15-20db drop at the 65-85Hz range to 5db at the same ranges. WOW! Thanks What's next?




UPDATE:
OK, while changing the phase on the subs to opposite's really helped flatten out the dip, their no chest thump or room rumble. The Atmos Amaze demo was shaking the room before and you could really feel the rumble of the thunder. That's my rumble test. My impact test is in Star Trek when the feet is getting ready to all head to Vulcan and the same time and the Enterprise has the "parking brake" on. When each ship warps out, it hit's your in the chest. That was diminished with the phase shift, the rumble from the thunder in Amaze was completely gone.

Yeah did you maybe try stacking them and putting them in a corner and try measuring that like what soulfly737 suggested?


Sorry I don't know if you posted it or not but how much smoothing has been applied to that graph? 1/12th?


With a miniDSP from PSA you could pull down a few of those peaks and your room response would look pretty good actually.
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post #15510 of 31460 Old 12-14-2014, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
You are the first person to mention that and it looks like I have some improvement. It took it from a 15-20db drop at the 65-85Hz range to 5db at the same ranges. WOW! Thanks What's next?




UPDATE:
OK, while changing the phase on the subs to opposite's really helped flatten out the dip, their no chest thump or room rumble. The Atmos Amaze demo was shaking the room before and you could really feel the rumble of the thunder. That's my rumble test. My impact test is in Star Trek when the feet is getting ready to all head to Vulcan and the same time and the Enterprise has the "parking brake" on. When each ship warps out, it hit's your in the chest. That was diminished with the phase shift, the rumble from the thunder in Amaze was completely gone.
your response looks much better...now all you need is a dsp to pull down a couple peaks and you are golden.

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