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post #15751 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ Again, sell your 2113 and get XT32 subeqHT avr = subs FR will be better plus speakers sound better
Working on it, working on it.....


Any recommendations? To save some bucks, I'm looking at a refurb X4000 from A4L......

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post #15752 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 09:37 AM
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Call sound distributor in Vegas. Cheapest place when I got my new X4000.
I don't think you get warranty from A4L.

Last edited by tvuong; 12-21-2014 at 09:41 AM.
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post #15753 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I don't think Audyssey pro can do much more than let you adjust 3db.
Ok but might it sound better? Seems like doing too much EQ with the mini is causing a negative effect on the sound.

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post #15754 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 10:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Ok but might it sound better? Seems like doing too much EQ with the mini is causing a negative effect on the sound.
I dont think you will notice much of a difference between Audyssey XT32 and the pro kit but I haven't used the pro kit.

I wonder if everyone would be having problems if they were using the balanced version? Seems like the unbalanced kit has some limitations.
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post #15755 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I've had my MiniDSP for about a year now and that is exactly my experience every time I try to use it.

I've pretty much given up on it now. Maybe when I get a new AVR it will behave differently, but I doubt it.
Has anyone tried a different DSP than MiniDSP? I seen some others, but more expensive.


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post #15756 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 10:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Has anyone tried a different DSP than MiniDSP? I seen some others, but more expensive.
I am using a minidsp 10x10 with my 4 triax's and so far it is working great.
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post #15757 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 10:47 AM
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From all accounts audyssey pro has very little advantage over xt32 in the newest gen receivers
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post #15758 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Hey Lowell, I don't know if you have looked over this link that I'm including but if you haven't it will help answer some of your questions if you read it through (questions about smoothing and calibrations etc). I'm new to REW as well and it was very helpful to me to read through this and follow the step by step guide.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...101%20v3.9.pdf

Hop, I have read through it many time while playing with it. Each time learning a little more. That's what helped me to finally get the ASIO working over JAVA. My biggest issue is sometimes I don't know why I am taking the steps I am taking and what it's supposed to lead to. I am no sound engineer, just a hobbiest with a good ear. Still debating on the MiniDSP addition or adding a Y-splitter to each sub. I am getting clipping at the higher volumes so I don't know if that would help. By the way, that is what REW is saying, I can't hear the clipping.

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post #15759 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, there's your problem right there dude. Get a mic boom and you'll get consistent measurements.

To try and explain the discrepancy in levels; are these measurements of CH4 (LFE)? If they are, you are good to go on SPL calibration....if not, there's still something wrong.

Don't bother with those Magnolia guys....they know less than you, I guarantee it.

This is just a hobby, so do I just google a mic boom? Also, I don't know what CH4 means, so I am not sure if I am doing it. My SPL meter is a simple one that Tom recommended. I am sure it's fine though. My only concern is there is never a steady noise level. If I am trying to hit 75db, I usually look for the meter to bounce between 74.something and 76.

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post #15760 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:00 AM
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I just bought the boom mic

What is the attachment I need for both umik and the one for audyssey mic??
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post #15761 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:04 AM
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Hmmm…. Now I'm back to where I was before. Right now I'm running MultiEq XT. A while ago I was planning on buying the Denon X4000 to get XT32 to dial in the subs but that was going to be about $800 so then I was hoping that I could spend $105 on a minidsp to solve any sub issues. Now I'm back to wondering what I should do.
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post #15762 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Hmmm…. Now I'm back to where I was before. Right now I'm running MultiEq XT. A while ago I was planning on buying the Denon X4000 to get XT32 to dial in the subs but that was going to be about $800 so then I was hoping that I could spend $105 on a minidsp to solve any sub issues. Now I'm back to wondering what I should do.
I am in similar boat (I am using YPAO) and I dont like it. I am considering an Anthem receiver to get ARC though..by most accounts it does a better job than any Audysey variant
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post #15763 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
This is just a hobby, so do I just google a mic boom? Also, I don't know what CH4 means, so I am not sure if I am doing it. My SPL meter is a simple one that Tom recommended. I am sure it's fine though. My only concern is there is never a steady noise level. If I am trying to hit 75db, I usually look for the meter to bounce between 74.something and 76.
Go here to look at boom mic stands.

http://www.parts-express.com/Search....itesearch=true
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post #15764 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Hmmm…. Now I'm back to where I was before. Right now I'm running MultiEq XT. A while ago I was planning on buying the Denon X4000 to get XT32 to dial in the subs but that was going to be about $800 so then I was hoping that I could spend $105 on a minidsp to solve any sub issues. Now I'm back to wondering what I should do.
Hop. I wouldn't be too discouraged. I was always happy with my minidsp. But I am thinking now I'm in a larger room with concrete floor I am asking too much of the minidsp. I never realized it cut 3db because I didn't need the headroom. But now I guess I do and it just doesn't work for me. The signal was defiantly clipping causing the bad sounds.

Like I said ran WotW again today at -5 and without minidsp. And no bad sounds. And tons of bass (more than I have ever had in my basement theater) makes me wish I figured this out earlier. Would have saved my 500$ from buying a buttkicker kit. Although that is still useful when the wife is asleep until I can soundproof the room

Hop I'd be willing to ship you mine to try it out. If it works for you then you can pay me for it. If you don't like it and it doesn't work you can send it back to me. Lmk
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post #15765 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Hmmm…. Now I'm back to where I was before. Right now I'm running MultiEq XT. A while ago I was planning on buying the Denon X4000 to get XT32 to dial in the subs but that was going to be about $800 so then I was hoping that I could spend $105 on a minidsp to solve any sub issues. Now I'm back to wondering what I should do.
I really like XT32 over MultiEq XT. I used to run Multi XT and always ended up turning it off. However, with XT32 I don't turn it off. I try it every way possible, but nothing sounds as good as it. Even with all more acoustic control I though I might not need it, but it just sounds richer and fuller. XT32 is what's keeping me focused on a Denon X5200 vs Onkyo 3030 if I go to Atmos. I can get them for about $16 difference so I would lean towards the 3030 if it wasn't for the XT32.


Thanks for pointing to Parts Express in the other post. I should have know to look there.

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post #15766 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Hop. I wouldn't be too discouraged. I was always happy with my minidsp. But I am thinking now I'm in a larger room with concrete floor I am asking too much of the minidsp. I never realized it cut 3db because I didn't need the headroom. But now I guess I do and it just doesn't work for me. The signal was defiantly clipping causing the bad sounds.

Like I said ran WotW again today at -5 and without minidsp. And no bad sounds. And tons of bass (more than I have ever had in my basement theater) makes me wish I figured this out earlier. Would have saved my 500$ from buying a buttkicker kit. Although that is still useful when the wife is asleep until I can soundproof the room

Hop I'd be willing to ship you mine to try it out. If it works for you then you can pay me for it. If you don't like it and it doesn't work you can send it back to me. Lmk
Thanks for that offer Brian, that's very nice of you. I'll have to think about this a little more because I still plan on getting something with XT32 sometime in the future but the question is when.

I had every intention of getting the X4000 this year because I wasn't interested in Atmos. But then I read your positive comments on Atmos and I decided I had better rethink everything. After all the last thing I want to do is buy another AVR and then want to upgrade it within a year (been there done that and don't want to do it again).

On the bright side I'm happy right now with the sound of my subs in their new positions.

Hmmmm…. Decisions decisions.
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post #15767 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
I just bought the boom mic

What is the attachment I need for both umik and the one for audyssey mic??
The umik should attach with nothing else needed - might need to take the brass/metal inset out if the bottom of the umik holder.

I have an extra attachment that will hold the Audyssey mic that I ordered by mistake.

Can ship it to you for just the shipping cost. PM me if interested. It is this one:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CameraAdapt?adpos=1o2&creative=55673940721&device= m&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CPaYyp7x18ICFY_m7Aod9 xsA1g
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post #15768 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Thanks for that offer Brian, that's very nice of you. I'll have to think about this a little more because I still plan on getting something with XT32 sometime in the future but the question is when.

I had every intention of getting the X4000 this year because I wasn't interested in Atmos. But then I read your positive comments on Atmos and I decided I had better rethink everything. After all the last thing I want to do is buy another AVR and then want to upgrade it within a year (been there done that and don't want to do it again).

On the bright side I'm happy right now with the sound of my subs in their new positions.

Hmmmm…. Decisions decisions.
This, along with the great close out price, is why I decided to get the Denon 4520 BEFORE getting new subs. XT32 and SubEQ make everything sound better now and will make managing dual subs easier when I finally get them.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, PSA V1500
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post #15769 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 04:43 PM
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For the ones looking at boom mic stands, I ordered this one of amazon and its amazing stand for the price. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000978D58/...541860_TE_dp_1
And I ordered this adapter for the Audessy Mic. But this is for my AV-7702 that uses Aduessy XT32, so I dont know if it will work with others. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GWCC4I/...541850_TE_item


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post #15770 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
For the ones looking at boom mic stands, I ordered this one of amazon and its amazing stand for the price. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000978D58/...541860_TE_dp_1
And I ordered this adapter for the Audessy Mic. But this is for my AV-7702 that uses Aduessy XT32, so I dont know if it will work with others. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GWCC4I/...541850_TE_item

Great find, thanks.

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post #15771 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 06:26 PM
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Has anyone tried a different DSP than MiniDSP? I seen some others, but more expensive.
I've had a Behringer DSP1124P aka "Feedback Destroyer" before. It *did* work well, but in comparison to the MiniDSP, is a major PITA to use, partly because the controls aren't really meant to tackle room correction. (As its name implies, the main usage for this device is applying notch filters to eliminate feedback in shows). It did look kind of cool though. Before the arrival of the MiniDSP, it was by far the cheapest solution to EQ subs and was one of the few solution supported out of the box by REW.

As for MiniDSP limiting bass and causing flapping sounds, I'm not sure either what would be the problem. I know Brian probably won't be inclined to do before/after measurements during the Holidays but that would have been a great way to determine if bass was indeed limited. Such measurements would be kind of boring to do because one would have to re-calibrate at least the levels before measuring again.

My best guess about what is happening is either too much boost applied or more probably input or output clipping.

I for one kind of have the opposite problem: I have trouble sending enough signal to the subs that they wake up since I'm most often listening below -25 dB. I think I've found a nice workaround: I dialed the trim level just a tad hotter

Happy Holidays to all!

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post #15772 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
I've had a Behringer DSP1124P aka "Feedback Destroyer" before. It *did* work well, but in comparison to the MiniDSP, is a major PITA to use, partly because the controls aren't really meant to tackle room correction. (As its name implies, the main usage for this device is applying notch filters to eliminate feedback in shows). It did look kind of cool though. Before the arrival of the MiniDSP, it was by far the cheapest solution to EQ subs and was one of the few solution supported out of the box by REW.

As for MiniDSP limiting bass and causing flapping sounds, I'm not sure either what would be the problem. I know Brian probably won't be inclined to do before/after measurements during the Holidays but that would have been a great way to determine if bass was indeed limited. Such measurements would be kind of boring to do because one would have to re-calibrate at least the levels before measuring again.

My best guess about what is happening is either too much boost applied or more probably input or output clipping.

I for one kind of have the opposite problem: I have trouble sending enough signal to the subs that they wake up since I'm most often listening below -25 dB. I think I've found a nice workaround: I dialed the trim level just a tad hotter

Happy Holidays to all!

Bear123 took before and after measurements of the minidsp and verified the drop...so what Brian, others, and myself have stated is valid.
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post #15773 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 06:45 PM
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My miniDSP 2X4 is still in the box. So you guys are saying that XT32 SUB EQ is the real deal as when I use XT I end up shutting it off. I don't know what to do now about upgrading a receiver, get Atmos or not. I really wanted to stay with Onkyo but with their proprietary room EQ I don't know. I'm really leary about buying refurbs especially Denon. I could get a really good deal on a new Onkyo TX-NR1010 with XT32 Sub EQ, at my age I don't think I will be messing with Atmos, too much work putting in ceiling speakers. What do you guys think.
Cheers Jeff
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post #15774 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg
What is the attachment I need for both umik and the one for audyssey mic??
I use a spring-clip mic holder - like this one - for both my OmniMic and Audyssey mic. (The "jaws" open wide enough to hold the base of the Audyssey mic.)
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post #15775 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
My miniDSP 2X4 is still in the box. So you guys are saying that XT32 SUB EQ is the real deal as when I use XT I end up shutting it off. I don't know what to do now about upgrading a receiver, get Atmos or not. I really wanted to stay with Onkyo but with their proprietary room EQ I don't know. I'm really leary about buying refurbs especially Denon. I could get a really good deal on a new Onkyo TX-NR1010 with XT32 Sub EQ, at my age I don't think I will be messing with Atmos, too much work putting in ceiling speakers. What do you guys think.
Cheers Jeff
Jeff I was thinking the exact same way as you until I saw Brian's impression of Atmos.

Just a FYI, you don't have to put in the ceiling speakers, another option is the speaker modules that you can place on top of your L and R speakers, they fire up at an angle and reflect off the ceiling. I have read that they work pretty well. But I have no first hand experience.
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post #15776 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
My miniDSP 2X4 is still in the box. So you guys are saying that XT32 SUB EQ is the real deal as when I use XT I end up shutting it off. I don't know what to do now about upgrading a receiver, get Atmos or not. I really wanted to stay with Onkyo but with their proprietary room EQ I don't know. I'm really leary about buying refurbs especially Denon. I could get a really good deal on a new Onkyo TX-NR1010 with XT32 Sub EQ, at my age I don't think I will be messing with Atmos, too much work putting in ceiling speakers. What do you guys think.
Cheers Jeff
I know I am in the minority of enthusiasts around here, but I am just not feeling Atmos. My jump from 5.1 to 7.1 a few years back left me underwhelmed, so much so that I currently only run 5.1 as I just don't feel like the extra speakers added much. I feel like Atmos will make even less of an impact based on what I've read, so I definitely won't be going that route any time soon.

I think I might be getting crotchety in my old age, as I have similar feelings about the jump to 4k tv resolution. When properly calibrated I can barely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, so 4k really seems unnecessary to me.

Anyway, back to the topic, Atmos seems like another gimmick to me (3D tv anyone?). However, much smarter people than I are very excited for it, so maybe it'll catch on.
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post #15777 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 07:18 PM
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I know I am in the minority of enthusiasts around here, but I am just not feeling Atmos. My jump from 5.1 to 7.1 a few years back left me underwhelmed, so much so that I currently only run 5.1 as I just don't feel like the extra speakers added much. I feel like Atmos will make even less of an impact based on what I've read, so I definitely won't be going that route any time soon.

I think I might be getting crotchety in my old age, as I have similar feelings about the jump to 4k tv resolution. When properly calibrated I can barely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, so 4k really seems unnecessary to me.

Anyway, back to the topic, Atmos seems like another gimmick to me (3D tv anyone?). However, much smarter people than I are very excited for it, so maybe it'll catch on.
Interesting…. I went from 5.2 to 7.2 and loved it. But I didn't do the side and rear surrounds, instead I went surrounds and wide speakers running Audyssey DSX setting. I love the wide speakers, they created a seamless front soundstage, just perfect for movies (IMO).
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post #15778 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 07:55 PM
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To me, Atmos sounds like the the real deal....but I'm gonna wait until the whole Atmos/Auro 3D thing shakes out. It reminds of the BluRay/HD-DVD thing from a few years back and early adopters could get the shaft.

I'll be waiting at least a year before upgrading to Atmos and/or 4K.....for now I just really want an XT32 AVR.
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #15779 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
This is just a hobby, so do I just google a mic boom? Also, I don't know what CH4 means, so I am not sure if I am doing it. My SPL meter is a simple one that Tom recommended. I am sure it's fine though. My only concern is there is never a steady noise level. If I am trying to hit 75db, I usually look for the meter to bounce between 74.something and 76.
"CH4" is output 4 in REW which is the LFE channel which is 10db higher that any other channel...that's why I asked.

What output(s) are you using in REW for your measurements?


Yes, the SPL meter needle can bounce around a lot when using the subwoofer cal signal. When calibrating the SPL, I find it easier to use the speaker cal...you can change it with the dropdown on the calibrate SPL screen.


A mic boom shouldn't cost more than $25...a worthwhile investment if your going to be using REW/Audyssey.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #15780 of 18121 Old 12-21-2014, 08:31 PM
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Thought I'd join this post since I'm thinking about upgrading my subs. There is two models from PSA I've been eyeing, either the XS30se or XV30se. Has anyone heard both? Which one do you like more? Originally was considering the XS because I experienced some port noise (not much) but some to start to annoy me. These will be used in my living room, not a dedicated HT room.

Coming from (2) Outlaw LFM-1EX subs. Room is 20x19 and around 3600 cubic feet. 90% Movies/TV 10% Music

My other possible upgrade options are:
Rythmik FV15hp
SVS SB13-Ultra
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Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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