Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 532 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15931 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMES MCHUGHES View Post
Can someone post in the room the necessary tools I need to experiment with this rew. I have 4 subs in my room I'm s bit excited to see if I can get them tuned like everyone is doing.
Thanks for your help in advance
Happy New Year :tada:
Getting Started with REW: A Step-by-Step Guide
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post #15932 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The 30se is obviously a better sub. you have to decide for yourself is it worth it. For me it would come down to budget and placement options...If you can only go with one sub get the XS30. If you can go duals get the XV15's, or better yet get dual XS30's if it's in the budget.
This is what I was trying to decide. I could afford duals of either one and placement would be the same, to the inside of my mains. I just didn't know if it was worth the extra money for the 30's. Looking at their compression charts I was concerned about the XS30 starting to compress below 30Hz compared to the XV15.
If the general consensus is that the XS30se is a better sub than the XV15se, then I will go with the XS30se.

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post #15933 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by duckylgpn5700 View Post
Yes I believe the subs are gain matched (used a spl meter to verify). Graph has no smoothing and the xover is 80hz. Weird that I have a null at 70 with he cross at 80!

Regarding placement I don't have too many options due to WAF. the response curve I posted is the best I could get with my limited options!

Thanks!
When I say "gain matched" I mean it as described here. Is this what you have done, or have you "level matched" (same SPL at the MLP)??

Have you tried the sub distance tweak to see if you can affect that dip at 70hz?

Concerning WAF and sub placement...sometimes you just gotta be the man and do what needs to be done. If you want the best response you can get (and you obviously do from your choice in subs and your use of REW), there's no other way.
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post #15934 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
This topic has been beat to death recently in this thread...take the time and read back thru the last 10-20 pages. Google search should help too...


I will give you a hint...First thing you need is a UMIK-1 usb mic and a laptop with a hdmi output(makes things much easier). Now time to research...
I have a 6000 cubic foot room with openings to a hallway and living room - initially ordered a xv15se which forbmy taste was great. Played around with the idea of a xs30se but opted for for dual xs15se's, not so much for more headroom but for smoothing and deeper extension. It's Fantastic! aAfter getting duals I don't know how I'll ever go back to a single sub.
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post #15935 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
This is what I was trying to decide. I could afford duals of either one and placement would be the same, to the inside of my mains. I just didn't know if it was worth the extra money for the 30's. Looking at their compression charts I was concerned about the XS30 starting to compress below 30Hz compared to the XV15.
If the general consensus is that the XS30se is a better sub than the XV15se, then I will go with the XS30se.

The XV15 is stronger in the 16-30hz vs the XS30, but the 30 is better everywhere else. I guess you need to decide where you want the majority of your output? Also one needs to be able to understand the data they are looking at. Compression charts or Cea2010 measurement are taken in a 2m rms half space environment(outdoors). Once you place the sub in rom in a 1/8 space corner loaded environment you net about a 6db gain after you add and subtract all the other variables. So basically it would safe to assume you would get another 4-6db more headroom before compression starts in a average size room. Now in a huge room 5000^3 the 2m rms numbers are probably really close.

Last edited by basshead81; 12-31-2014 at 08:02 AM.
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post #15936 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckylgpn5700 View Post
I have a 6000 cubic foot room with openings to a hallway and living room - initially ordered a xv15se which forbmy taste was great. Played around with the idea of a xs30se but opted for for dual xs15se's, not so much for more headroom but for smoothing and deeper extension. It's Fantastic! aAfter getting duals I don't know how I'll ever go back to a single sub.
In that size room I doubt you could even distinguish the extension advantage the XS15se has over the XV15se. 10-15hz output does not mean much unless you can get the output up high enough to pressurize the room. those frequencies are felt not heard...Actually in a blind test in your room, I bet you would think the XV15 extended deeper until you seen the measurements.
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post #15937 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
Alan, so my mic boom came in and pretty much no change. I will do some of the other things you suggested, but I don't understand the input output screen you showed me in the REW setup. What should I have the ASIO output set to. Right now it's HDMI 1 and I have the choice of up to 8.


First graph is without mic boom second graph with. Second graph is subs and mains only dark line is with XT32 lighter without.
I would say there is quite a bit of change between these two graphs...however, we don't really know if they are comparable since you don't seem to know to which channels you are outputting to.






Also, did you re-run Audyssey after you got the mic boom? That's where you will see the biggest benefit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I couldn't figure out how to change decimal points so I moved it by feet. I changed it to 13.5 and 12.9 and out of curiosity I changed it to 11.5 and left it 12.9. I never changed them individually before. Look at the jump.


It's getting to late to play tonight, but let me see if I have my sequence right for tomorrow.
1. Recalibrate with XT32
2. Check levels with hand held SPL
3. Run Sub Distance tweak with XT32 on? or Off?


Thanks,
When starting with the sub distance tweak and SubEQ HT, you should always move both subs by the same distance.

You're getting somewhere with the distance tweak. Try going the other direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
One other question. Does this mean I am running my subs to hot?
WAAAAAYYYY too hot IMO. 20db above your mains is just ridiculous, even for the biggest bassheads around here. Your subs are drowning out everything else.

What MV setting do you normally listen at? Are your speakers all calibrated to 75db? Do you use Dynamic EQ and/or Dynamic Volume? If so, make sure you turn both off when measuring.



The graphs you are posting have no consistency to them....some have the upper and lower limits set to 50 & 120 (should be 45 & 105), sometimes you are measuring at one db level, other times another level. Try to keep things consistent so we can analyze the data.

One more time...please read the Guide...thoroughly.
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post #15938 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I agree that adjusting the gain on one sub can impact the response significantly. The only thing I would point out is by doing that you loose some headroom being the sub with the higher gain setting will reach it's limits before the other. If you have plenty of headroom to spare then not really a big deal.
Although this could be the case for some...a very slight gain adjustment eliminated a null, resulting in a gain of close to 5 dB of headroom in a pretty important frequency range. It required less eq to flatten my response as well, so I feel as though I technically gained headroom. Also, this was from the nearfield sub, so it probably still has more left in the tank than my other sub.
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post #15939 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

WAAAAAYYYY too hot IMO. 20db above your mains is just ridiculous, even for the biggest bassheads around here. Your subs are drowning out everything else.
The reason he is running the subs so hot is to compensate for the null in the 60-90 Hz area. Once he fixes this, he will probably be able to drop his sub level a good 10 dB and still have the slam he is looking for. Bet it rocks with movie LFE calibrated that hot though.
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post #15940 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The XV15 is stronger in the 16-30hz vs the XS30, but the 30 is better everywhere else. I guess you need to decide where you want the majority of your output? Also one needs to be able to understand the data they are looking at. Compression charts or Cea2010 measurement are taken in a 2m rms half space environment(outdoors). Once you place the sub in rom in a 1/8 space corner loaded environment you net about a 6db gain after you add and subtract all the other variables. So basically it would safe to assume you would get another 4-6db more headroom before compression starts in a average size room. Now in a huge room 5000^3 the 2m rms numbers are probably really close.
Yeah it's so hard to decide! My room is open and with vaulted ceilings so a large volume even though distance from subs to MLP is only 11'. And I don't really know if I can use room gain to take advantage of the deeper extension of the XS30's. The advantage of the XV15s around 16-30Hz should be more important for movies than the output above and below that right? Then again, having substantially more mid bass headroom up to the crossover should sound awesome too!

Just too much to think about. This is what happens when you have too much time to think about things!

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post #15941 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:39 AM
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Buy one of each and see which you like better? Using the free shipping both ways.
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post #15942 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:40 AM
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Running his subs that hot will definitely result in distortion at -15 or -10MV if all was calibrated properly beside from bass over powering everything else. He needs to use subs gain match technique, run Audessey, adjust sub trims to the average of the two, set crossover to 80hz to start out (if Audessey sets it there or LOWER) and make measurement (choose hdmi4 output in REW) from there with Audessey on, dyneq and dynVol off to get the base line FR. Then measure his center alone (hdmi3) with subs OFF, then measure center with subs on, then make the sub distances change, and remeasure center with subs on. Post all graphs together. Once he gets a nice FR, he can bump up sub trims (from your avr, never touch the sub gain knobs again) to his liking and remeasure.
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post #15943 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Concerning WAF and sub placement...sometimes you just gotta be the man and do what needs to be done.
I still want to hear more about your T-18's.
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post #15944 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:12 AM
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What do you want to know?

They're AWESOME! What else is there to say??



Getting a new XT32 AVR on Friday...I'll probably post up some new graphs and impressions once I get it all dialed in.
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post #15945 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:19 AM
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^^ about time. Which one?
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post #15946 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:22 AM
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post #15947 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:25 AM
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^^ nice. Are you going to do 9.2?
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post #15948 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:37 AM
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Not right away.

Gonna stick with my 7.2 for awhile...I've spent way too much on HT gear this year.
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post #15949 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Not right away.

Gonna stick with my 7.2 for awhile...I've spent way too much on HT gear this year.
Good thing next year is tomorrow.
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post #15950 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:41 AM
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^^ post more graph once you get it set up. I would like to see your Klipschhorn FR XT and XT32 comparison as well. I bet your system will even sound better
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post #15951 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:46 AM
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I looking at t-18. Are they a sealed sub? Guys, that have them how do like them? I need to replace a Velodyne DD-15. My sub developed a pop at louder volume so I am looking to replaced it. Thanks for the info.
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post #15952 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:57 AM
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I looking at t-18. Are they a sealed sub? Guys, that have them how do like them? I need to replace a Velodyne DD-15. My sub developed a pop at louder volume so I am looking to replaced it. Thanks for the info.
Yes, the T-18s are sealed subs.

What is the cubic footage of your listening area (including any rooms that it is open to)?

Have you measured your rooms response (REW, Omimic)?

What is your ratio of movies to music usage? What master volume level do you usually listen to each at?

What are your bass needs? Are you a serious basshead, or do you just want to "fill in the low end"?

What are your other speakers?

Pics and/or a diagram of the room would be great.
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post #15953 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
4520ci.

One of the guys over in the DIY threads posted yesterday that he was able to buy a AVR-4520 from BestBuy for $650 plus taxes, man that was a crazy deal!
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post #15954 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:00 AM
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Yeah saw that, almost half what I paid.

Lucky man......
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post #15955 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Yes, the T-18s are sealed subs.

What is the cubic footage of your listening area (including any rooms that it is open to)?

Have you measured your rooms response (REW, Omimic)?

What is your ratio of movies to music usage? What master volume level do you usually listen to each at?

What are your bass needs? Are you a serious basshead, or do you just want to "fill in the low end"?

What are your other speakers?

Pics and/or a diagram of the room would be great.
Don't you just love when you ask two questions, get one answer and six questions in return? Lol. Sadly I knew this was going to be the case around here

So far the couple guys that have the T-18 have really liked them. Alan is one of those people
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post #15956 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
One of the guys over in the DIY threads posted yesterday that he was able to buy a AVR-4520 from BestBuy for $650 plus taxes, man that was a crazy deal!
That is awesome! I struck a similar deal on my sc35, it was a demo model on clearance. Still the best deal I've ever had on electronics, this thing is a beast!

Hey Alan, what drew you to the 4520 over the x4000's that are on close out lately?

Last edited by FattyMcButterPants; 12-31-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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post #15957 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
In that size room I doubt you could even distinguish the extension advantage the XS15se has over the XV15se. 10-15hz output does not mean much unless you can get the output up high enough to pressurize the room. those frequencies are felt not heard...Actually in a blind test in your room, I bet you would think the XV15 extended deeper until you seen the measurements.
You're probably right - dual xs15's were cheaper (and easier to integrated with the room) than dual xv's!
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post #15958 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Although this could be the case for some...a very slight gain adjustment eliminated a null, resulting in a gain of close to 5 dB of headroom in a pretty important frequency range. It required less eq to flatten my response as well, so I feel as though I technically gained headroom. Also, this was from the nearfield sub, so it probably still has more left in the tank than my other sub.
Regarding the minidsp, would 1 be able to use 1 mini dsp for dual subs? Would it go next to my receiver?
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post #15959 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:27 AM
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Kind of OT, but it Seems like most on here run a receiver with xt32...no love for anthem with ARC?

On another note, anyone know how many xs30se's equal a triax? I like my xs30 but am curious on how much "better" a triax would be.
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post #15960 of 22233 Old 12-31-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckylgpn5700 View Post
Regarding the minidsp, would 1 be able to use 1 mini dsp for dual subs? Would it go next to my receiver?
Yes you can run up to 4 subs out of a minidsp. It would go from sub out on avr to minidsp to sub amp
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Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
Kind of OT, but it Seems like most on here run a receiver with xt32...no love for anthem with ARC?

On another note, anyone know how many xs30se's equal a triax? I like my xs30 but am curious on how much "better" a triax would be.
Arc is great from all in have heard. But not as popular as xt32

I asked tom about a possible upgrade from dual xs30's to a single triax. While he said it would be an improvement in output, it wouldn't be worth it based on the price of the uograde (including return shipping for the xs30's)

I think 3 xs30's is one triax. I could be wrong though
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