Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 556 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16651 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 11:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
  1. Men, This is Mike Butnys Graphs below, if you can please chime in.
WOW! audyssey worked miracles!!

looks great...but were these with other speakers involved or just the subs?

cause it looks like the sub distance tweak needs to be done to help out
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post #16652 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 11:44 AM
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Brian, its Mike Butny, Just with 2 subs with XT32 enabled. I believe the right sub is causing the dip around 80hz. Please see the graphs.
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post #16653 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
Brian, its Mike Butny, Just with 2 subs with XT32 enabled. I believe the right sub is causing the dip around 80hz. Please see the graphs.

have you tried adjusting the phase, or done a distance tweak?
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post #16654 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 12:21 PM
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Are both subs gain matched (not level matched)?

I agree with Brian that Audyssey worked wonders and the Audyssey graph looks pretty good....I'd like to see it a bit smoother from 45-100hz though.

If phase doesn't sort it out, are there any more placement options?
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post #16655 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
have you tried adjusting the phase, or done a distance tweak?
If these measurements are subs only (as he says) than the distance tweak won't make any difference....unless:

Does the AVR have SubEQ HT? If so, try adjusting the distance of one sub instead of messing with phase. DO THIS WITH AUDYSSEY OFF, when you get the flattest graph by tweaking one subs distance then re-run Audyssey (if the default distance didn't already provide the best response, which it often does with XT32).
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post #16656 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 12:23 PM
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Also, let's see some graphs of subs+CC, subs+L and subs+R.
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post #16657 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 12:36 PM
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Guys, here is a graph with the mic in the middle of the couch which help the 80hz dip by 5db. When I ran XT32, the mic was on the right side of the couch as that is were I always sit. I'm going to re-run XT32 in the middle of the couch and hoping it will flatten it it further.
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post #16658 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 12:40 PM
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WOW! Nice extension there!

You want the first Audyssey mic position exactly where your head would be (MLP). Unless you like to switch seats, just optimize for your seat and let the rest fall where they may.
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post #16659 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 12:42 PM
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You may be wasting your time too....that 80hz dip might be completely taken care of with the CC in the mix.

Take a measurement of CC+subs and post it up.
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post #16660 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 01:05 PM
 
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That extension makes me excited for when my room will eventually enclosed
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post #16661 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 02:15 PM
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They must be getting somewhere....been awhile now.
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post #16662 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
They must be getting somewhere....been awhile now.
We ran out of time as this really eats up time quick. Ok, this is the run down, I actually sit on the LEFT side of the couch and when I ran audyssey 32xt I had the mic on the left side for the first measurement. I'm running an Onkyo 818 receiver ( pre-amp mode ) and while it has XT32 it lacks SUB-eq so it measures and corrects both subs as 1. Maybe a future upgraded would straighten out the graph. We tried adjusting the Phase but WOW did things get worse so the best setting was both phase controls set at zero. We did not measure with any of the other speakers on, I tried adjusting the subwoofer distance some, if I make the distance shorter the graph got worse and when I adjusted the distance 3 feet further there was not any change. If you look at the graphs when we just had the left sub on the 80hz dip was gone and when we measure just the right sub by itself the 80hz dip is present so the right sub is the problem. I wonder because I have the equipment rack built into the wall on the right side and behind the rack is a huge crawl space, now I do have the back of the rack closed out but its not 100% sealed so it would be like sound escaping from under the door. I wonder if I move the equipment to the crawl space and completely seal that right corner if it it would help? I also changed the cross-over freq from 80hz to 90hz and the 80hz dip was still there. @Alan , I was thinking the same thing, maybe when I engage the center channel into the graph that 80hz dip will improve. PLEASE do not scream but I never did the sub crawl, when I got the 1st XS30SE I just put it in the spot that I had my old Mirage Sub and when I got the second XS30SE I put it on the other side so I have some room to move them around. I'm stuck with the subs in the front of the room as I did not run any electrical outlets on the sides or rear of the room. I can break into the drywall and run some electrical if needed.


I plan on moving the subs so that the drivers are facing sideways instead of front and back to see how they graph along with moving the subs backwards and side to side and graph. I was really thinking of moving the right sub and stacking it side by side with the left sub ( more output ) since the left sub graphed so nicely. What do you guys think? Thanks again everyone for helping Buckley44 and I out, we really do appreciate it.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

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post #16663 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
WOW! Nice extension there!

You want the first Audyssey mic position exactly where your head would be (MLP). Unless you like to switch seats, just optimize for your seat and let the rest fall where they may.
I sit on the left side of the couch and that is the first mic position when I run audyssey, since the graph improved by 5bd at 80hz when we tested at the middle of the couch( with audyssey engaged but the first audyssey mic position at the left side ) do you think if I re-run audyssey and use the middle of the couch as the first position that the graph would improve?

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 01-30-2015 at 03:27 PM.
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post #16664 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
That extension makes me excited for when my room will eventually enclosed

Brian you are going to love them more when your room is finished, Please run the bridge scene in Godzilla when your room is completed and get back to me

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post #16665 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Are both subs gain matched (not level matched)?

I agree with Brian that Audyssey worked wonders and the Audyssey graph looks pretty good....I'd like to see it a bit smoother from 45-100hz though.

If phase doesn't sort it out, are there any more placement options?
I level matched them, is there a huge difference between the 2 when they are graphed? Maybe the next round of testing I will try to gain match them and see if they graph better, thanks again Alan,

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #16666 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
have you tried adjusting the phase, or done a distance tweak?
JB, I adjusted the phase and measured and both at zero by far was the best position and I did play around with the distance some. Please keep the info coming, thanks.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #16667 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 04:20 PM
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PLEASE do not scream...
OK, I'll just chide you a little then.

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We tried adjusting the Phase but WOW did things get worse so the best setting was both phase controls set at zero.
Still good that you tried it, now you know.

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We did not measure with any of the other speakers on
You plan on listening to just your subs??

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I tried adjusting the subwoofer distance some, if I make the distance shorter the graph got worse and when I adjusted the distance 3 feet further there was not any change.
To do the sub distance tweak, you have to have the subs+CC (or FL or FR) on. Read the guide in the link.

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If you look at the graphs when we just had the left sub on the 80hz dip was gone and when we measure just the right sub by itself the 80hz dip is present so the right sub is the problem.
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I was really thinking of moving the right sub and stacking it side by side with the left sub ( more output ) since the left sub graphed so nicely.
Definitely worth a try. You will probably have higher seat-to-seat variance but it the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks.

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I wonder if I move the equipment to the crawl space and completely seal that right corner if it it would help?
Couldn't hurt.

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I never did the sub crawl
WHAT?! BLASPHEMER! HERETIC!!!

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I'm stuck with the subs in the front of the room as I did not run any electrical outlets on the sides or rear of the room. I can break into the drywall and run some electrical if needed.
Ummm...extension cords, dude. At least for testing purposes.

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I plan on moving the subs so that the drivers are facing sideways instead of front and back to see how they graph along with moving the subs backwards and side to side and graph.
Just rotating them will probably make little to no difference. Moving them along the wall is a better plan.
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post #16668 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, I'll just chide you a little then.



Still good that you tried it, now you know.



You plan on listening to just your subs??



To do the sub distance tweak, you have to have the subs+CC (or FL or FR) on. Read the guide in the link.




Definitely worth a try. You will probably have higher seat-to-seat variance but it the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks.



Couldn't hurt.



WHAT?! BLASPHEMER! HERETIC!!!



Ummm...extension cords, dude. At least for testing purposes.



Just rotating them will probably make little to no difference. Moving them along the wall is a better plan.
Alan: I will try the REAL sub distance tweak next time, . I told Buckley44 I need to send the family away for the weekend so we have more time for testing, I guess next time we won't watch clips of movies before we start so we have more time . WOW am I impressed what audyssey XT32 can correct, I have been eyeing a Marantz AV8801 and a 7009 which both have SUB-eq, maybe that will be the next upgrade but then again I was telling Buckley44 that 4 XS30SE up front would look great so who knows.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #16669 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 04:38 PM
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I was telling Buckley44 that 4 XS30SE up front would look great
Do you not have enough output with the duals?

If you're not wanting for more output, you would be better served by adding one or two subs in the back to help smooth the response.

Just sayin'.
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post #16670 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Do you not have enough output with the duals?

If you're not wanting for more output, you would be better served by adding one or two subs in the back to help smooth the response.

Just sayin'.
I do love the output but that damn little guy on my shoulder keeps telling me " get 2 more". If I did get 2 more I would move them around and compare 4 up front to 2 in the front and 2 in the back. I want to thank Tom and Jim for making a great product, WOW do these subs dig deep.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #16671 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 04:48 PM
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If you do decide to get more, I'd just start with one. That will probably get you where you want to be and require less "fiddling". Quads can be a b*tch to get to play nice together....ask me how I know.
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post #16672 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 05:03 PM
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If you do decide to get more, I'd just start with one. That will probably get you where you want to be and require less "fiddling". Quads can be a b*tch to get to play nice together....ask me how I know.
Hey Alan, how do you like your Denon so far? Its getting or already has a firmware upgrade to enable Atmos and DTS:X correct? My brother is in the market for new receiver and I was pushing the Marantz 7009 but the 2K price tag scares him a bit.

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post #16673 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 09:04 PM
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The 4520 is getting Atmos?!? First I'm hearing of it...more info please!!
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post #16674 of 31886 Old 01-30-2015, 11:56 PM
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The 4520 is getting Atmos?!? First I'm hearing of it...more info please!!
Sorry Alan, looks like I jumped the gun.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #16675 of 31886 Old 01-31-2015, 12:20 AM
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Hey Alan, how do you like your Denon so far? Its getting or already has a firmware upgrade to enable Atmos and DTS:X correct? My brother is in the market for new receiver and I was pushing the Marantz 7009 but the 2K price tag scares him a bit.
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Sorry Alan, looks like I jumped the gun.

The 4520 doesn't have the hardware to run Atmos. There is no "jumping the gun", it won't/can't happen.

Did you get your models mixed up? The 4100, 5200 & 7200 are the Denon models that do Atmos and we won't know who or what will do DTS:X until March.

The firmware upgrade that became available recently was for Auro.
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post #16676 of 31886 Old 01-31-2015, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
The 4520 doesn't have the hardware to run Atmos. There is no "jumping the gun", it won't/can't happen.

Did you get your models mixed up? The 4100, 5200 & 7200 are the Denon models that do Atmos and we won't know who or what will do DTS:X until March.

The firmware upgrade that became available recently was for Auro.
Yeah I read an article but it was for another model, I wonder if Denon is going to charge for the upcoming firmware upgrade for DTS:X and Auro. My brother has an older Denon and when a new firmware ( added options ) was released he had to pay a nice $$$$$ for it so he declined.


Yep, they are charging: http://usa.denon.com/us/news/news/128

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #16677 of 31886 Old 01-31-2015, 10:48 AM
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What do you guys think is happening with my FL speaker between 50 to 60 hz any suggestions. These graphs are with Audysseny/subs FL&FR &CC
I'm also falling hard at 15hz or so, has to be the room which is not a dedicated rm like Mikes Butnys rm.
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post #16678 of 31886 Old 01-31-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Yeah I read an article but it was for another model, I wonder if Denon is going to charge for the upcoming firmware upgrade for DTS:X and Auro. My brother has an older Denon and when a new firmware ( added options ) was released he had to pay a nice $$$$$ for it so he declined.


Yep, they are charging: http://usa.denon.com/us/news/news/128

The Marantz has a upgrade charge for the Auro also. Im not paying for it until I see if they make one a standard. This reminds me of the HD-DVD and Blue-Ray which I bought into the HD-DVD. So I wont do that again.


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post #16679 of 31886 Old 01-31-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
The Marantz has a upgrade charge for the Auro also. Im not paying for it until I see if they make one a standard. This reminds me of the HD-DVD and Blue-Ray which I bought into the HD-DVD. So I wont do that again.
I was in the same boat, I still got a Toshiba HDDVD player in my rack, my brother just bought the Denon AVRX4100W today. I'm going to hold tight for at least a year and see what happens, I believe all future models will probably include both Atmos and DTS:X and Auro being offered on certain models.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000S Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Marantz SR7009 Receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Atmos Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, PSA S3600I & XS30SE subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.

Last edited by Mike Butny; 02-07-2015 at 12:38 AM.
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post #16680 of 31886 Old 01-31-2015, 12:02 PM
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Since the servo sub has the bass contour on it which raises 6db at 60hz, I decided to use it which raised me up about 15db at the 50-60hz range and it made that dip better, Not sure if I should worry about that dip or is that dip a problem with the speaker or is it because the sub is right next to it. anyways the 6db boost did help raise it somewhat.
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