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post #16651 of 16678 Old Today, 10:45 AM
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Yes, invert the phase (180) on one sub only. If you get an increase in SPL, you're on the right track.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #16652 of 16678 Old Today, 10:48 AM
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This is my graph with phase turned all the way up on my servo sub which helped with the null but not the peak.This is with no Audyssey engaged. Both subs are on in this measure.
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post #16653 of 16678 Old Today, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
This is my graph with phase turned all the way up on my servo sub which helped with the null but not the peak.This is with no Audyssey engaged. Both subs are on in this measure.
I think someone else mentioned changing the phase yersterda! That looks pretty good. At lease you brought in the missing bass, You just have a little extra at the peak. Does it sound boomy? If not, then its probably not a issue. Do you have any other controls on the back of your servo sub besides crossover, gain and phase?

The other thing is just trying moving that servo sub a little. Sometimes just 6 inches can make some difference. Or get a minidsp to take that peak out if nothing else works and you don't like it.


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post #16654 of 16678 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
This is my graph with phase turned all the way up on my servo sub which helped with the null but not the peak.This is with no Audyssey engaged. Both subs are on in this measure.
That's a VERY good start now. Everything is very flat after that humongous peak

I am very unsure what is causing it. Either way it's a good problem to have with strong extension like that. Much easier to cut a signal

Run with what you have now in audyssey and report back with a graph. See what it's does. Then you might be a candidate for a mjnidsp or the like
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post #16655 of 16678 Old Today, 11:13 AM
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I copied this of your subs pdf file. So you can play with this and see what it does. http://www.paradigm.com/downloads/OM-576.pdf
BASS CONTOUR:

Adjusts the contour of the bass frequency response, from flat (0.0 dB),

which provides the most accurate bass for music, up to a +6.0 dB boost
at 60 Hz for more bass impact with movies in a home theater system.
This control can be used to tailor bass to best suit your personal
listening preferences


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post #16656 of 16678 Old Today, 11:16 AM
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Next time for the fun of it run your left limit out to 10Hz. Im curious how far that extension extends out. Have you double checked that all your bass enhancements in your AVR are turned off?


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post #16657 of 16678 Old Today, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I copied this of your subs pdf file. So you can play with this and see what it does. http://www.paradigm.com/downloads/OM-576.pdf
BASS CONTOUR:

Adjusts the contour of the bass frequency response, from flat (0.0 dB),

which provides the most accurate bass for music, up to a +6.0 dB boost
at 60 Hz for more bass impact with movies in a home theater system.
This control can be used to tailor bass to best suit your personal
listening preferences
If I touch the bass contour do I have to re - run Audyssey?
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post #16658 of 16678 Old Today, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
If I touch the bass contour do I have to re - run Audyssey?
I read some people that has the Seaton Submersives do a trick is that they will run Audessy, with 1 of the 2 programs. Audessy will make an adjustment to that program, then they will load the other parameter program and not run aduessy to get a boost in the extension. Did I confuse you? lol
I would make notes in your measurments. Play with the setting without audessy, measure with notes. Then run adueessy and see if it makes it worst or better. Just take good notes so you can go back and look at your measurements and see which one looks the best. Its all trial and error.
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post #16659 of 16678 Old Today, 11:53 AM
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You most certainly need to re-run Audyssey after that phase adjustment you did...it made a huge difference in your FR. Audyssey may even be able to pull down that huge 25hz peak now that it doesn't have to work so hard on the null.

EDIT: I'm assuming the last graph you posted is with Audyssey off, correct?

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #16660 of 16678 Old Today, 11:56 AM
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Here's a comparo of those two:

Phase at "0"




Phase at "180"


AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #16661 of 16678 Old Today, 12:00 PM
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Thanks everybody for your help, I will re run Audyssey later and see how that effects the measurments and report back.Once i Get a good base going I can start learning more and tweaking from there. Thank You again everybody.
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post #16662 of 16678 Old Today, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You most certainly need to re-run Audyssey after that phase adjustment you did...it made a huge difference in your FR. Audyssey may even be able to pull down that huge 25hz peak now that it doesn't have to work so hard on the null.

EDIT: I'm assuming the last graph you posted is with Audyssey off, correct?
Alan, he was asking if he needed to re-run audessy after changing the bass contour on the sub, not the phase.


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post #16663 of 16678 Old Today, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Here's a comparo of those two:

Phase at "0"




Phase at "180"

Yes, I see that it flattened things out a bit even without Audyssey. I watched something after that without re doing Audyssey and could tell something was not quite right so when i get home I'll re run Audussey with the Phase adjustment and see how things sound,Then I will proceed from there. Thank You Alan, Mike Butney on here is waiting for me to make it too his house next
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post #16664 of 16678 Old Today, 12:06 PM
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Im only assuming that the Bass Contour is similar as other subs that has 2 DSP programs. Except yours may be variable. So this explains a little better what I was trying to say.

It depends what you are trying to achieve. Audyssey doesn't care how your Submersive is set when you do the cal, but what it will try to do is bring your frequency response in line with its inbuilt target curve as far as is possible. So if you calibrate with Pgm 2 engaged and then run Audyssey, it will try to get rid of the bass boost that Pgm 2 added. If you calibrate with Pgm 2 engaged, it will do the same, but as the bass boost is less ti begin with, it won't have to work so hard to do it.

The fun begins when you switch Pgms after running Audyssey. Some of us calibrate with Pgm 1 engaged and then, after Audyssey has done its stuff, we switch to Pgm2 on the sub. This means Audyssey doesn't try to remove the bass boost that Pgm 2 brings, so we get some nice additional bass extension.

In theory you should recalibrate with Audyssey whenever you make a change to the system setup or move speakers etc. But this little trick enables us to get even more low end grunt from the Submersives. You need to know which Pgm you were in when you calibrated. If unsure, calibrate again with the Submersive in Pgm 1. Then after calibration have a listen and see how it sounds (after running Audyssey you may want to boost the sub trim in the AVR by about 3dB too). If you want a little more extension, then switch to Pgm 2. Remember you have to switch off the Submersive before the Pgm change comes into effect when you power back on.


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post #16665 of 16678 Old Today, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Alan, he was asking if he needed to re-run audessy after changing the bass contour on the sub, not the phase.
Yeah, I know. I was just emphasizing that he needed to re-run with the phase adjustment since he didn't ask.
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #16666 of 16678 Old Today, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Alan, he was asking if he needed to re-run audessy after changing the bass contour on the sub, not the phase.
Yes, Those measurements are without Audyssey engaged, I'll re run Audyssey when I get home, Maybe Alan can chime in again if I have to run Audyssey after a bass contour adjustment?
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post #16667 of 16678 Old Today, 12:10 PM
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Good luck. Im sure Alan will get you all straightened out.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
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post #16668 of 16678 Old Today, 12:19 PM
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I would run Audyssey with the Bass Contour off and then play with it afterwards to see what it does to the curve.

Might be worth taking measurements of it off and on before Audyssey as well....you may be able to get a better curve for Audyssey to work with.

Maybe that "60hz boost" would help even out the mid-bass with the low end.

Basically, try everything you can with the tools at your disposal.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #16669 of 16678 Old Today, 03:49 PM
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Red and Alan and everyone that chimmed in thank you for all your help!
below is my graph with Audyssey engaged for both subs, this is with me re-running Audyssey after changing the phase on the Servo sub, I have not messed with the bass contour yet, will try that in a bit, After doing this there is a big difference in the Bass now, much better!! While watching scenes in a movie. I did have Dynamic eq and volume off when I did this measurement.I'm not done yet but this is a much better start than what I began with. I'll watch some things tonite so I can get a grip on this, then I will start moving subs around.
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post #16670 of 16678 Old Today, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
Red and Alan and everyone that chimmed in thank you for all your help!
below is my graph with Audyssey engaged for both subs, this is with me re-running Audyssey after changing the phase on the Servo sub, I have not messed with the bass contour yet, will try that in a bit, After doing this there is a big difference in the Bass now, much better!! While watching scenes in a movie. I did have Dynamic eq and volume off when I did this measurement.I'm not done yet but this is a much better start than what I began with. I'll watch some things tonite so I can get a grip on this, then I will start moving subs around.
Nice graph buckley44 now get over to my house and measure my room, can you adjust the frequency parameters to 5-10hz as it looks like you are getting good output with extension.

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post #16671 of 16678 Unread Today, 04:16 PM
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Glad it's sounding better Buckley...still got some pretty big peaks in that FR though. For example, you got a 15db swing from 80-67hz...you can do better than that.

And, yeah, let's see that extension man!

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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I just wanted to add what a great gentleman Jim is as well. Tom does all the PR work and Jim does all the work Tom.............
Cheers Jeff
Indeed!! Cheers to Jim as well!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Glad it's sounding better Buckley...still got some pretty big peaks in that FR though. For example, you got a 15db swing from 80-67hz...you can do better than that.

And, yeah, let's see that extension man!
Yes I will try to work on that peak, Myself and Mike Butney were just on the phone talking about it and then you posted while we chatting about bringing it down.I'm going to live with this for the night and listen to some material. I'm afraid to do too much right now because it sounds a lot better than it was, I have people coming over for the Game Sunday and I don't want to start moving subs and going backwards, Then i'll be frantic on game day..LOL I'M starting too feel like I'm smelling too many perfumes. I'll enjoy for a bit and then start working on it again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Glad it's sounding better Buckley...still got some pretty big peaks in that FR though. For example, you got a 15db swing from 80-67hz...you can do better than that.

And, yeah, let's see that extension man!
I was just thinking...that swing from 80hz down, you may be able to fix that with the sub distance tweak. Have you tried that yet?

That is if that measurement was "speaker (CC or L or R)+subs" and not just "subs only".

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
Yes I will try to work on that peak, Myself and Mike Butney were just on the phone talking about it and then you posted while we chatting about bringing it down.I'm going to live with this for the night and listen to some material. I'm afraid to do too much right now because it sounds a lot better than it was, I have people coming over for the Game Sunday and I don't want to start moving subs and going backwards, Then i'll be frantic on game day..LOL I'M starting too feel like I'm smelling too many perfumes. I'll enjoy for a bit and then start working on it again.
It's all good, just enjoy it for awhile.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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Audyssey FAQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Measure your response...you probably have a cancellation in the upper bass range. I can tell you for a fact that my XV15's have enough punch to make your teeth chatter.
+1 as do mine.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
Red and Alan and everyone that chimmed in thank you for all your help!
below is my graph with Audyssey engaged for both subs, this is with me re-running Audyssey after changing the phase on the Servo sub, I have not messed with the bass contour yet, will try that in a bit, After doing this there is a big difference in the Bass now, much better!! While watching scenes in a movie. I did have Dynamic eq and volume off when I did this measurement.I'm not done yet but this is a much better start than what I began with. I'll watch some things tonite so I can get a grip on this, then I will start moving subs around.
You're welcome buckley. Its good to see you got that missing bass up. Yeah, watch some movies and enjoy it. You don't have to do it all in one day. Thats a big improvement over your first graph. Good job.


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Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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Replacement amp installed and all is good now! PSA thanks for the quick great customer service!!!
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