Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 556 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16651 of 16669 Old Today, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Did you not run a measurement of just the PSA? It looks to me the culprit is the Servo sub. I would try moving it out from the wall or corner just a little, or to another area. If I am understanding your graphs, its the one that is making the giant 27-28 Hz peak and the null.

But the graph with audessy isnt bad. If you want it flatter, I would try moving the servo sub since the single measurement of it shows the peak and null. And the null is probably enhanced from that peak
I believe the 2nd graph labeled Rew is with the PSA only, I forgot to tag it properly. The Servo is up front between the 2 speakers and center, you can problem see it in my avatar. It is about 4' off back wall, The PSA is behind my seating area about 3" off side wall facing out to my room with back firing at wall.
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post #16652 of 16669 Old Today, 10:45 AM
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Yes, invert the phase (180) on one sub only. If you get an increase in SPL, you're on the right track.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #16653 of 16669 Old Today, 10:48 AM
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This is my graph with phase turned all the way up on my servo sub which helped with the null but not the peak.This is with no Audyssey engaged. Both subs are on in this measure.
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post #16654 of 16669 Old Today, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
This is my graph with phase turned all the way up on my servo sub which helped with the null but not the peak.This is with no Audyssey engaged. Both subs are on in this measure.
I think someone else mentioned changing the phase yersterda! That looks pretty good. At lease you brought in the missing bass, You just have a little extra at the peak. Does it sound boomy? If not, then its probably not a issue. Do you have any other controls on the back of your servo sub besides crossover, gain and phase?

The other thing is just trying moving that servo sub a little. Sometimes just 6 inches can make some difference. Or get a minidsp to take that peak out if nothing else works and you don't like it.


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post #16655 of 16669 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
This is my graph with phase turned all the way up on my servo sub which helped with the null but not the peak.This is with no Audyssey engaged. Both subs are on in this measure.
That's a VERY good start now. Everything is very flat after that humongous peak

I am very unsure what is causing it. Either way it's a good problem to have with strong extension like that. Much easier to cut a signal

Run with what you have now in audyssey and report back with a graph. See what it's does. Then you might be a candidate for a mjnidsp or the like
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post #16656 of 16669 Old Today, 11:13 AM
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I copied this of your subs pdf file. So you can play with this and see what it does. http://www.paradigm.com/downloads/OM-576.pdf
BASS CONTOUR:

Adjusts the contour of the bass frequency response, from flat (0.0 dB),

which provides the most accurate bass for music, up to a +6.0 dB boost
at 60 Hz for more bass impact with movies in a home theater system.
This control can be used to tailor bass to best suit your personal
listening preferences


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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post #16657 of 16669 Old Today, 11:16 AM
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Next time for the fun of it run your left limit out to 10Hz. Im curious how far that extension extends out. Have you double checked that all your bass enhancements in your AVR are turned off?


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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Samsung PN64F8500 Plasma TV, Oppo 103D Blue Ray Player
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post #16658 of 16669 Old Today, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I copied this of your subs pdf file. So you can play with this and see what it does. http://www.paradigm.com/downloads/OM-576.pdf
BASS CONTOUR:

Adjusts the contour of the bass frequency response, from flat (0.0 dB),

which provides the most accurate bass for music, up to a +6.0 dB boost
at 60 Hz for more bass impact with movies in a home theater system.
This control can be used to tailor bass to best suit your personal
listening preferences
If I touch the bass contour do I have to re - run Audyssey?
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post #16659 of 16669 Old Today, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
If I touch the bass contour do I have to re - run Audyssey?
I read some people that has the Seaton Submersives do a trick is that they will run Audessy, with 1 of the 2 programs. Audessy will make an adjustment to that program, then they will load the other parameter program and not run aduessy to get a boost in the extension. Did I confuse you? lol
I would make notes in your measurments. Play with the setting without audessy, measure with notes. Then run adueessy and see if it makes it worst or better. Just take good notes so you can go back and look at your measurements and see which one looks the best. Its all trial and error.


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post #16660 of 16669 Old Today, 11:53 AM
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You most certainly need to re-run Audyssey after that phase adjustment you did...it made a huge difference in your FR. Audyssey may even be able to pull down that huge 25hz peak now that it doesn't have to work so hard on the null.

EDIT: I'm assuming the last graph you posted is with Audyssey off, correct?

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #16661 of 16669 Old Today, 11:56 AM
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Here's a comparo of those two:

Phase at "0"




Phase at "180"


AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #16662 of 16669 Old Today, 12:00 PM
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Thanks everybody for your help, I will re run Audyssey later and see how that effects the measurments and report back.Once i Get a good base going I can start learning more and tweaking from there. Thank You again everybody.
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post #16663 of 16669 Old Today, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You most certainly need to re-run Audyssey after that phase adjustment you did...it made a huge difference in your FR. Audyssey may even be able to pull down that huge 25hz peak now that it doesn't have to work so hard on the null.

EDIT: I'm assuming the last graph you posted is with Audyssey off, correct?
Alan, he was asking if he needed to re-run audessy after changing the bass contour on the sub, not the phase.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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post #16664 of 16669 Old Today, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Here's a comparo of those two:

Phase at "0"




Phase at "180"

Yes, I see that it flattened things out a bit even without Audyssey. I watched something after that without re doing Audyssey and could tell something was not quite right so when i get home I'll re run Audussey with the Phase adjustment and see how things sound,Then I will proceed from there. Thank You Alan, Mike Butney on here is waiting for me to make it too his house next
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post #16665 of 16669 Unread Today, 12:06 PM
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Im only assuming that the Bass Contour is similar as other subs that has 2 DSP programs. Except yours may be variable. So this explains a little better what I was trying to say.

It depends what you are trying to achieve. Audyssey doesn't care how your Submersive is set when you do the cal, but what it will try to do is bring your frequency response in line with its inbuilt target curve as far as is possible. So if you calibrate with Pgm 2 engaged and then run Audyssey, it will try to get rid of the bass boost that Pgm 2 added. If you calibrate with Pgm 2 engaged, it will do the same, but as the bass boost is less ti begin with, it won't have to work so hard to do it.

The fun begins when you switch Pgms after running Audyssey. Some of us calibrate with Pgm 1 engaged and then, after Audyssey has done its stuff, we switch to Pgm2 on the sub. This means Audyssey doesn't try to remove the bass boost that Pgm 2 brings, so we get some nice additional bass extension.

In theory you should recalibrate with Audyssey whenever you make a change to the system setup or move speakers etc. But this little trick enables us to get even more low end grunt from the Submersives. You need to know which Pgm you were in when you calibrated. If unsure, calibrate again with the Submersive in Pgm 1. Then after calibration have a listen and see how it sounds (after running Audyssey you may want to boost the sub trim in the AVR by about 3dB too). If you want a little more extension, then switch to Pgm 2. Remember you have to switch off the Submersive before the Pgm change comes into effect when you power back on.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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Samsung PN64F8500 Plasma TV, Oppo 103D Blue Ray Player
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post #16666 of 16669 Unread Today, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Alan, he was asking if he needed to re-run audessy after changing the bass contour on the sub, not the phase.
Yeah, I know. I was just emphasizing that he needed to re-run with the phase adjustment since he didn't ask.
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #16667 of 16669 Unread Today, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
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Alan, he was asking if he needed to re-run audessy after changing the bass contour on the sub, not the phase.
Yes, Those measurements are without Audyssey engaged, I'll re run Audyssey when I get home, Maybe Alan can chime in again if I have to run Audyssey after a bass contour adjustment?
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post #16668 of 16669 Unread Today, 12:10 PM
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Good luck. Im sure Alan will get you all straightened out.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon), (2) XS15se subs.

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Samsung PN64F8500 Plasma TV, Oppo 103D Blue Ray Player
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post #16669 of 16669 Unread Today, 12:19 PM
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I would run Audyssey with the Bass Contour off and then play with it afterwards to see what it does to the curve.

Might be worth taking measurements of it off and on before Audyssey as well....you may be able to get a better curve for Audyssey to work with.

Basically, try everything you can with the tools at your disposal.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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