Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 564 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16891 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
It's hard to make a case without full response graphs. That said, lots of people who are focused on music reproduction prefer sealed subwoofers.

In terms of the raw numbers we see, the S3000 does feature higher output above 30hz. Again, a boost for music.
Blind testing has proven that a quality ported sub sounds as good as a sealed counterpart.

True, but how much output do you need? A pair of V1500's will hit 126-128db in a 24-2600^3 room in the upper bass range. Sure a pair of 3000's might do 132-134db but are you going to ever play them that loud? If yes then by all means get the 3000's.
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post #16892 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:07 AM
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If any of you Men want to sell your XS30SE For about $600 with free shipping included please let me know, I'm willing to do anything I can to help you guys with your Upgrade dreams!!! My 30se is looking for a partner.... LOL
Talking too you Mike Butny....You know you want it!!!!!
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post #16893 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:14 AM
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Wow. Haven't been on here much the past month or so and looks like I missed ALOT!!

Here I was just ho-humming along, still considering whether to go with a 2nd XS15SE or mix my 15 with an XS30SE, and NOW, I've got a whole new line-up to think about!

Jeez, talk about feeding the upgradeitis! Thanks , Tom and Jim!

Boston Acoustics Classic series L/C/R + front presence; Fluance XLBP Bipole surrounds; 2 x PSA XS15se
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post #16894 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Which models are you going to try? I'm very interested in hearing your impressions!
I plan to demo the V1500 against the S3000i and the Rythmik FV15HP.

I have a bias towards sealed designs--but I have an extremely large room that isn't going to provide room gain in the ULF range. So, I had basically resigned myself to ported until I saw the S3000i which may be the only sealed design capable of performing in my room at (or in this case, slightly above) my budget.
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post #16895 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Blind testing has proven that a quality ported sub sounds as good as a sealed counterpart.

True, but how much output do you need? A pair of V1500's will hit 126-128db in a 24-2600^3 room in the upper bass range. Sure a pair of 3000's might do 132-134db but are you going to ever play them that loud? If yes then by all means get the 3000's.
This is exactly what I am thinking. If a pair of V1500's has all the output you would need and if you can't hear a difference in sound quality with the S3000, then why pay so much more money for the S3000's?

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post #16896 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
True, but how much output do you need?
In my 7500 cubic foot room open to another 2500 cubic feet? A lot. :P
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post #16897 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
I plan to demo the V1500 against the S3000i and the Rythmik FV15HP.

I have a bias towards sealed designs--but I have an extremely large room that isn't going to provide room gain in the ULF range. So, I had basically resigned myself to ported until I saw the S3000i which may be the only sealed design capable of performing in my room at (or in this case, slightly above) my budget.
Please keep us informed as I am in a similar situation.

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post #16898 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Please keep us informed as I am in a similar situation.
I'll start a thread when my demo time begins. I'm going to email Tom about starting in mid-March with the first shipments. I'm on vacation until early March anyway.
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post #16899 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
This is exactly what I am thinking. If a pair of V1500's has all the output you would need and if you can't hear a difference in sound quality with the S3000, then why pay so much more money for the S3000's?


Like I said some will want the deeper extension the S3000 offers. Also the 3000 might sound a bit cleaner when driven near it's limits due to 2 drivers splitting the load. More voice coils in the system are a good thing.


So to answer your question directly, yes in your situation the V1500's should fit the bill nicely.
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post #16900 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
In my 7500 cubic foot room open to another 2500 cubic feet? A lot. :P
how much is a lot? how loud do you listen?
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post #16901 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Tom, I've chatted with you before about subs for my open floor plan living room. We had concluded that dual XS30se's would work but I can't help but think dual V1500s would be better and wouldn't have to rely on room gain. Most everyone recommends ported over sealed in a large/open room. What do you think?
I usually base my recommendations on a number of variables, room size is an important consideration but there's a lot more to it than this singular metric.

Having said that, it is hard *not* to recommend dual V1500s for just about any conceivable scenario. In the past I would be somewhat hesitant for our ported models to be used in small rooms. The room transfer function just didn't mirror as well compared to our sealed products. Now, with our room size control each customer can dial in just the right amount of deep bass roll-off for their specific room. In this case(large, open floor plan) you really won't need to experiment much with the room size control it will almost certainly sound best left to "large".

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post #16902 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Not sure I understand this post. As for "balance between small sealed and T18", there are the S3000 & S3000i models. "Direct competition with PB13 Ultra" the new V1500 pretty closely matches it despite being about HALF the price!
I guess what I was getting at is there are currently 6 sealed subwoofer offerings and only 3 options for ported. One is sold out and with the V1500 out the xv15se will most likely be phased out. I was hoping there would be a V3000 coming out soon Nothing against the V1500 I am sure it is going to be a phenomenal sub especially for the price.
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post #16903 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
how much is a lot? how loud do you listen?
Basically, not loud enough to be concerned about output at any frequency above 25hz; I suspect that either option would do very nicely. My concerns are twofold: first, any potential drop in accuracy / tightness of the output when moving from sealed to ported. Second, lack of room gain to account for the dropoff curve in sealed designs.

Everything I've been told is that only the second concern is real since a quality ported design should be able to match the accuracy of a sealed design. However, every time I have demoed subwoofers, I've preferred the sound from sealed.

With all of that in mind, I want to personally demo both (and, seriously, huge thank you to Tom V and PSA for free shipping both ways making it possible!)

A: Marantz AV7702 | McIntosh C2300 | McIntosh MC452 | Martin Logan Theos | Martin Logan Motif X | PSA S3000i (x2)
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post #16904 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:05 AM
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post #16905 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:06 AM
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Damn Tom and Jim you have been busy. I just saw all the new subs coming out. Well done!

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post #16906 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
What ported subwoofers did you demo?
At this point, it's been so long, I honestly don't know. Whatever was available at Magnolia in the $1k price range about 2.5 years ago. They tend to carry REL, Velodyne, Martin Logan, Def Tech, and B&W--so I'm guessing a mix of those brands and some others.

Yes, yes; I realize that's about as far from "scientific" as possible. That said, I do plan to demo 2 ported options and only 1 sealed option in my home--taking into account all of the knowledge I've gained here in the past several months. And I'm totally willing to accept that the ported options may work better for me; but, knowing my own preference in the past, I want to hear for myself.

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post #16907 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bossdog304 View Post
I would be curious to see updated xv30fse's. There should be a balance between small sealed and T18's. Direct competition with PB13 Ultras and equivalent ported subs on the market. Otherwise the market I'm guessing would be around $800 and $3,500 without a middle for ported.
The V1500 is more than a match for the pb13ultra(in 15hz mode). Both will have similar extension and output. Both have modern DSP controlled amps fully *green* in regards to power consumption, both have 5 year warranties. The svs has choice of finish(no upcharge) the V1500 is Made in USA. Either way you end up with a great woof imo.

I think we have the sealed product line covered well at this point.

S1500
S3000
S3000i
T-18

The Ported product line needs to filled out a bit of course...

V1500

?????

?????i

I'm guessing we'll have something to announce before the end of 2015.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #16908 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by axcelr8 View Post
Thanks Tom!

After deciding I wanted to upgrade my subwoofer I spent way too much time research this sub and that one. I had an original budget of $400. I did look at PSA website and was pleasantly surprised when I had a conversation with Tom V. He asked all of the basic questions and referred me to a couple choices in my price range. After getting that type of service I decided to save a bit more and push the budget. I then ordered a XS15. All I can say is WOW. It is a very musical sub and I love how accurate it is. Technically this is undersized for my room (~7000cf), but I use it near field and it shakes everything around. I had the pleasure of watching WOTW the other night. I have never experienced this level of bass from a home theater before (although my experience is limited). I will say that my wife is not a fan. She thinks the speakers on the TV are fine... The scene where the first POD emerges had her reaching for stuff and a few dirty looks. I sat there with a big grin on my face like a kid in a candy store. Anyway, thanks again for the help!

Sincerely,
Todd
Appreciate it Todd. Anyone following along with a $250 budget I often recommend the NGX bas-500. Hard to beat for $250(ish).

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post #16909 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Are the drivers different from the SE models? When can we see pics of the backs?
Backs of the drivers or amps? The drivers look the same, the changes are internal----voice coil tweaks for example.

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post #16910 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
The V1500 is more than a match for the pb13ultra(in 15hz mode). Both will have similar extension and output. Both have modern DSP controlled amps fully *green* in regards to power consumption, both have 5 year warranties. The svs has choice of finish(no upcharge) the V1500 is Made in USA. Either way you end up with a great woof imo.

I think we have the sealed product line covered well at this point.

S1500
S3000
S3000i
T-18

The Ported product line needs to filled out a bit of course...

V1500

?????

?????i

I'm guessing we'll have something to announce before the end of 2015.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
OMG!!!! You Are killing me Tom! Every time I make up my mind, something happens to change it. I have to finish paying off my new receiver before I can finally get a subwoofer so not until this fall. Looks like I will have PLENTY of options!
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post #16911 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Backs of the drivers or amps? The drivers look the same, the changes are internal----voice coil tweaks for example.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Amps.
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post #16912 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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@Tom Vodhanel ,Tom I'm just curious is PSA exiting the budget market ($899 or less)? I ask because its pretty clear that the budget market is either very small companies (who won't be able to hold low prices forever) or assembled in China products. And the SPL race is in full swing so that going with something with less SPL seems unacceptable.

Also congrats on releasing the new products!

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post #16913 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Backs of the drivers or amps? The drivers look the same, the changes are internal----voice coil tweaks for example.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
I think he was talking about the back of the amplifier. I, for one, would like to see a couple good pics of the amplifier (circuit side and back side).

Common Tom, we need another hit brother. Feed our addiction...
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post #16914 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by its phillip View Post
awesome. I'm definitely hoping the new subs get tested by data-bass. I wish the old/current ones were tested as well but I'm guessing that's probably not going to happen now :/
Well, we had the XS15se and XV30Fse measured at data-bass. At the time that represented 40% of our product line which is much higher than any of our competitors with the possible exception of svs. We tried to get the XV15se and possibly the XS30se measured too but Josh was always backed up. Remember he usually only measures on week ends and is limited by the weather as well. Realistically, I bet he might be limited too 10-14 weekends a year. That's not much time when you consider everything on his plate.

We'll try to get more products off to him this summer for sure.

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Power Sound Audio
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post #16915 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 09:20 AM
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Tom, what is your opinion on sealed sounding better than ported? Talking, of course, about PSA models.

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post #16916 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
@Tom Vodhanel ,Tom I'm just curious is PSA exiting the budget market ($899 or less)? I ask because its pretty clear that the budget market is either very small companies (who won't be able to hold low prices forever) or assembled in China products. And the SPL race is in full swing so that going with something with less SPL seems unacceptable.

Also congrats on releasing the new products!
I'm not sure I'd define the "budget market" at $899. That is probably more than 95% of home theater enthusiasts have invested in their entire speaker/subwoofer lineup.. I do understand that the line could be drawn somewhere in the sand. This may be difficult though as it will be different for each individual.

We try to price our products as low as possible while still sustaining our business model. Bragging about "selling just above cost" is kind of scary imo. People assume "one bad batch of amps" doomed Epik but I

I don't know if we'll be able to offer Made in USA products at much below the current pricing. We can always get a little more efficient with inventory turns. Shipping contracts with Fedex are renegotiated every few months, things of that nature.

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post #16917 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I'm not sure I'd define the "budget market" at $899. That is probably more than 95% of home theater enthusiasts have invested in their entire speaker/subwoofer lineup.. I do understand that the line could be drawn somewhere in the sand. This may be difficult though as it will be different for each individual.

We try to price our products as low as possible while still sustaining our business model. Bragging about "selling just above cost" is kind of scary imo. People assume "one bad batch of amps" doomed Epik but I

I don't know if we'll be able to offer Made in USA products at much below the current pricing. We can always get a little more efficient with inventory turns. Shipping contracts with Fedex are renegotiated every few months, things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Thanks Tom and I guess budget is an odd term. I guess being here on AVS really well skews ones understanding of budget. Or what the budget market is to most people.

Ya sadly I can't help but think Epik began hurting themselves after they killed off their older line (conquest , dragon and so on) and went cheaper is better. I can't help but think even though they had tons of sales going with a very low cost hurt them from the start and eventually did them in.

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post #16918 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Tom, what is your opinion on sealed sounding better than ported? Talking, of course, about PSA models.
The system design won't have as much influence on the sound quality as optimizing the product choice to the room environment and performance expectations. And, of course, nailing the placement, calibration, etc.

1500 cu-ft, sealed, 50-50 music/film and -15dB as the highest volume levels? Go S1500.

1500 cu-ft, sealed, all movies, and close to reference level volume? The V1500 is the better choice..

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Power Sound Audio
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post #16919 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I'm not sure I'd define the "budget market" at $899. That is probably more than 95% of home theater enthusiasts have invested in their entire speaker/subwoofer lineup.. I do understand that the line could be drawn somewhere in the sand. This may be difficult though as it will be different for each individual.

We try to price our products as low as possible while still sustaining our business model. Bragging about "selling just above cost" is kind of scary imo. People assume "one bad batch of amps" doomed Epik but I

I don't know if we'll be able to offer Made in USA products at much below the current pricing. We can always get a little more efficient with inventory turns. Shipping contracts with Fedex are renegotiated every few months, things of that nature.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Now you're talking, I can help with that, right up my alley, now about upgrading my XV15se ....
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post #16920 of 37582 Old 02-16-2015, 10:22 AM
mnc
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Ok so sound quality would be the same? So what situation would say an S3000 be better than a V1500? Just trying to figure out how to go about making the right choice.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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