Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 578 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17311 of 17331 Unread 02-25-2015, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
No, it doesn't work like that. It just means that the sub will start to compress at a lower MV on movie LFE compared to having no eq on the low end. If you even listen loud enough to hit the subs limits. It has no effect at all on output capability in the mid and upper bass.

So if you listen at say -20, your sub might have to hit peaks of 95 dB at your MLP. The S3000(or i version), should give you this no problem down to 10 Hz with no compression. But, if you calibrate your sub 5 dB hot, now you must be able to produce peaks of 100 dB, still fine down to 10 Hz I would say(in room).

The problem comes when you start running around -15, calibrated 5 hot, with a 5 dB house curve. Now you are asking one sub to hit 110 dB peaks....not gonna happen much below 30 Hz. So if the S3000 is all in at say, 105 dB at 20 Hz, you will be compressing the signal on big peaks at -15(if 5 hot with +5 house curve). You would still have all of your headroom available above that level....it just won't be playing the super low stuff quite as loud as it is being asked to during big LFE peaks. This is the exact reason many people notice a substantial difference when they upgrade to dual subs, or subs with more output capability.
I agree with what you are saying to a point, but When your sub(s) start to compress, distortion rises and are simply out of gas in the compressed frequency range. Sure you might have more headroom available in the upper bass, but what good is it at that point? Are you going to keep the remote in your hand and turn down the volume when the content you are playing reaches down into the frequency range you have boosted? That seems silly at best.

Lets say you are watching a movie at reference MV -0, but you have a +6db boost in the 15-20hz which puts the sub at its limits @ MV -10 below 20hz. Everything could be sounding great until the sub is called upon to play a sub 20hz scene in the movie. Now the sub is up on it's limiter and sounding like ass. So yes boosting the low end can limit your upper end headroom essentially if you want clean uncompressed output through the entire frequency range.

The correct way to calibrate the sub system up is to set it up so it meets your output levels uncompressed for all source material that the system will play. If the sub system is only capable of 110db then you definitely do not want to be adding boost on the low end. Eq boost and house curves are normally for high displacement multiple sub systems that can handle the boost and still play reference and beyond. I would much rather have a sub system that is flat to 20hz @ Reference, opposed to being flat to 15hz @ MV -10. The Sub(s) will sound cleaner and more dynamic if they are not compressing.
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Last edited by basshead81; 02-25-2015 at 09:26 PM.
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post #17312 of 17331 Unread 02-25-2015, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I have an old RS analog. But I recently got a new SPL meter from Cross-Spectrum. http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...ted_cm140.html

SPECIFICATIONS:
Microphone: ½" Electret condenser microphone
Accuracy: ±1.5 dB (ref 94dB @1KHz)
Level Range:
Lo = 32 ~ 80 dB
Med = 50 ~ 100 dB
Hi = 80 ~ 130 dB
Auxiliary Outputs: AC Signal Output
Frequency Weighting: A , C
Time Weighting: Fast , Slow
Dynamic Range: 50 dB
Frequency Range: 31.5Hz to 8KHz
Battery Life: 9V Battery 110 hours (included)
Operation Temp.: 0°C~ 40°C (32 to 104ºF) (<80% R.H.)
Storage Temp.: -10°C~ 60°C(14 to 140ºF) (<70% R.H.)
Dimension: 9.1" ×2.1" ×1.3" (232mm×54mm×34mm)
Weight: Approx. 0.54lbs. (200g)
Did you pay the extra $20 for the + version? Is the + version worth it? Is the + version useful at all?

I read in the manual that meter should be calibrated once per year. Calibrator that Galaxy sells goes for about $250 on Amazon. Is an annual calibration really needed or worth it?
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post #17313 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I agree with what you are saying to a point, but When your sub(s) start to compress, distortion rises and are simply out of gas in the compressed frequency range. Sure you might have more headroom available in the upper bass, but what good is it at that point? Are you going to keep the remote in your hand and turn down the volume when the content you are playing reaches down into the frequency range you have boosted? That seems silly at best.

Lets say you are watching a movie at reference MV -0, but you have a +6db boost in the 15-20hz which puts the sub at its limits @ MV -10 below 20hz. Everything could be sounding great until the sub is called upon to play a sub 20hz scene in the movie. Now the sub is up on it's limiter and sounding like ass. So yes boosting the low end can limit your upper end headroom essentially if you want clean uncompressed output through the entire frequency range.

The correct way to calibrate the sub system up is to set it up so it meets your output levels uncompressed for all source material that the system will play. If the sub system is only capable of 110db then you definitely do not want to be adding boost on the low end. Eq boost and house curves are normally for high displacement multiple sub systems that can handle the boost and still play reference and beyond. I would much rather have a sub system that is flat to 20hz @ Reference, opposed to being flat to 15hz @ MV -10. The Sub(s) will sound cleaner and more dynamic if they are not compressing.
Thanks for the info! I'm completely clueless when it comes to all this stuff.
I should remind everyone here that I have ZERO experience with a TRUE subwoofer. All the bass I have ever experienced has come from my main speakers! I can't wait to finally hear/feel what a REAL subwoofer sounds like.
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post #17314 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 07:24 AM
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Hey, I just wanna say you guys are a great read. I've always been into great audio but the last 9 months I've really got into to it. Bought a xs30se in January to go with the rest of my gear. It's amazing. Gotta say I credit you guys and Tom at PSA. I looked at Svs, rhythmic, and Hsu. Went with PSA and it's just amazing. My room is approx 7500cf with 10-20 foot ceiling and this thing still rumbles it. Your reviews and discussion has really helped. Now just gotta get the wife to let me get another, it's a great addiction! Thanks guys
Chip
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post #17315 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
Did you pay the extra $20 for the + version? Is the + version worth it? Is the + version useful at all?

I read in the manual that meter should be calibrated once per year. Calibrator that Galaxy sells goes for about $250 on Amazon. Is an annual calibration really needed or worth it?
Yes I got the "+" version. Is it worth it? I don't know because I don't have a standard version to see compare the difference in accuracy. But choosing $120 or $140 and get a thumb drive with a correction curve. I chose the $140 model.

I haven't heard of a annual calibration. I did compare that with my old RS analog and there was about a 4 dB difference with the RS at 75 dB. Which I kind of suspected the RS was off a little. I assuming Cross Spectrum could recheck the calibration and it wouldn't be very expensive. And if I did this professionally I would. But for a hobby use, unless I drop it, I will not be doing a calibration again.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
Klipsch RF7-II's, Klipsch RC64-II (Soon), Klipsch RS62-II (Soon)

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post #17316 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
I read something today about the intro to the movie Live Die Repeat EOT supposed to be a sub killer, anybody know about this, if so is it before the movie starts, ordered it today from Amazon.

You're a little late to the party Jeff.

Edge of Tomorrow... careful guys!



At 0MV, it actually turned back time in my room!


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post #17317 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
We've had mixed feedback on the new grills. I'd say 1/3rd love em, a 1/3rd really don't care either way(many of these intend to run grill less), and 1/3rd prefer the original grill.

Tom V.
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Love the new grills! Very classy looking IMO.
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post #17318 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You're a little late to the party Jeff.

Edge of Tomorrow... careful guys!



At 0MV, it actually turned back time in my room!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzyuGwvCl70
Hey Alan, I saw the movie but don't remember that intro, I think I fast forwarded right to the movie. Should be here tomorrow from Amazon. I played that clip last night from FOTP and my misses came down with a serious look on her face and asked if was insane or trying to ruin my hearing for life. She had a good point I really never saw that look on her face before, it had me thinking that maybe I am insane. Are we?????
Cheers Jeff
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post #17319 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 12:14 PM
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I thought I was a little insane when I went outside during the FOTP plane crash and my windows were vibrating so hard I though one might crack.
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #17320 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 12:16 PM
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I thought I was a little insane when I went outside during the FOTP plane crash and my windows were vibrating so hard I though one might crack.
Like the new Avatar Alan.................
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Received my UMIK-1 today along with speaker wire, HDMI, wall plates/boxes, got my projector earlier this week, close on the house tomorrow, run all wiring and build the wall to close off the theater in the basement this weekend, screen comes Monday, and the S1500 with the miniDSP comes....?

Can't wait to get everything setup and rocking!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip387 View Post
Hey, I just wanna say you guys are a great read. I've always been into great audio but the last 9 months I've really got into to it. Bought a xs30se in January to go with the rest of my gear. It's amazing. Gotta say I credit you guys and Tom at PSA. I looked at Svs, rhythmic, and Hsu. Went with PSA and it's just amazing. My room is approx 7500cf with 10-20 foot ceiling and this thing still rumbles it. Your reviews and discussion has really helped. Now just gotta get the wife to let me get another, it's a great addiction! Thanks guys
Chip
Welcome to the PSA bass family. It's a great group of guys who hang out here and almost all of us have a bit of a bass addiction so you're in good company. The best part is the guys who hang out here are always willing to help out if you have a question.

Congrats on your new sub and I hope you can convince your wife to let you get a second one soon because going duals can really add a whole new dimension to bass nirvana.
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post #17323 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 02:13 PM
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Like the new Avatar Alan.................
And it's appropriate in regards to the recent discussions.
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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post #17324 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 07:10 PM
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How about wayne's MTM 210 review guys @ the Shack, now I have to start moving everything around again.
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post #17325 of 17331 Unread Yesterday, 08:03 PM
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How about wayne's MTM 210 review guys @ the Shack, now I have to start moving everything around again.
Jeff, I just noticed you sent me a PM. Sorry about that...
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I thought I was a little insane when I went outside during the FOTP plane crash and my windows were vibrating so hard I though one might crack.
Reminds me of the good old DIY days. My first DIY was basically POC, second was a little more serious. This is back in 97(?). There were like 5 guys total on all forums combined DIYing. You want decent measurement capability be ready to invest $500 minimum and then spend WEEKS configuring various DIY preamp/circuits to ensure repeatable data sets. Second unit was a 30 inch(id) sonotube about 6ft tall. The port was a 12"(id" sonotube about 32 inch long. Tuning was around 17hz IIRC. Four 12s(two on each end). Yup, I was quad opposed before opposed was cool..

The 30inch unit caused some issues with the neighbors and they are about 600(?) ft away...

Tom V.
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post #17327 of 17331 Unread Today, 12:52 PM
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Jeff, I just noticed you sent me a PM. Sorry about that...
Not a problem my friend, got it
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post #17328 of 17331 Unread Today, 02:08 PM
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So when will we see this 30" diam 6' tall quad 12" for sale on PSA site?

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Reminds me of the good old DIY days. My first DIY was basically POC, second was a little more serious. This is back in 97(?). There were like 5 guys total on all forums combined DIYing. You want decent measurement capability be ready to invest $500 minimum and then spend WEEKS configuring various DIY preamp/circuits to ensure repeatable data sets. Second unit was a 30 inch(id) sonotube about 6ft tall. The port was a 12"(id" sonotube about 32 inch long. Tuning was around 17hz IIRC. Four 12s(two on each end). Yup, I was quad opposed before opposed was cool..

The 30inch unit caused some issues with the neighbors and they are about 600(?) ft away...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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So when will we see this 30" diam 6' tall quad 12" for sale on PSA site?
Right after I upgrade and think I'm finally happy with what I have. That's usually when Tom and Jim come out with something new and then I relapse back into "needing" another subwoofer. That's when my wife threatens to check me back into the bass rehab clinic for another "little visit". This addiction get's expensive. Just ask Alan.
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post #17330 of 17331 Unread Today, 02:26 PM
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You're a little late to the party Jeff.

Edge of Tomorrow... careful guys!



At 0MV, it actually turned back time in my room!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzyuGwvCl70

Alan, I watched that scene at -22 and my solid oak door was trying to open by itself and my movie frames were trying to jump off the wall, I can't believe you listened to it at 0MV. Maybe I will go lower on the MV next time. I watched the whole movie again this morning at -12 except for the intro.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, Dual PSA XS30se subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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Well, looks like the tax man stopped by today. My anniversary is in the middle of March. I think I know what I'm gonna suggest as a gift from the other half.
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