Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 580 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #17371 of 17395 Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 4,172
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I have a bunch of questions... I ordered two V1500's (includes the miniDSP and Umik-1). I have a Pioneer VSX-1124 (which has sub EQ). My 5 speakers/surrounds include NHT Classic Two's and an NHT TwoC center. My entertainment center/TV stand has a 60" LCD. I have a pretty large room. It is about 18x30x9 (4860cf). The front two speakers are atop of 2 foot speakers stands. The rear speakers are ceiling mounted.

My wife has approved three locations for the subs (included in the picture). Surprisingly, the XV15, which I previously owned, sounded best when placed right to the left of the TV stand in between the stand and the left front speaker (Pos 1). I had also placed it in Pos 2 and Pos 3 (near field?) and it sounded ok but strangely not as good as Pos 1. So I'm thinking of placing them in Pos 1 and Pos 2. I would love to place it in a corner but unfortunately the corner is the fireplace (to the left of the couch).

Any suggestions on placement other than these positions? These three positions are probably the most aesthetically pleasing.

More questions: Do I need to reset all the settings as far as sub EQ, before connecting the miniDSP? When I connect the miniDSP (prior to REW), do I need to run the sub EQ with the AVR on each individual sub?

Since I am limited on placement is it worth the time to do the "sub crawl" thing that I hear eveyone talking about here?

I'm really kind of clueless how to set up both of these subs... I just need to know what the first couple of steps are prior to connecting the miniDSP/Umik-1. I obviously will take full advantage of those tools but what do I do first?

Thanks!!!

Pos 1 + either Pos2 or Pos3 should work well. I would try both.

You do not need to reset the AVR, but you will need to re-run MCACC...after connecting the MiniDSP (with the MiniDSP "zeroed out" - all gains set to 0, crossovers set to bypass, and no EQ).

Does your AVR EQ dual subs individually or as one?

The sub crawl thing is always worth it, although it's a bit more complicated with dual subs. Here is my standard dual setup procedure, although it assumes Audyssey and no DSP, the basics are the same. It will probably at least tell you if Pos2 or Pos3 is better for the second sub:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!
jhughy2010 likes this.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17372 of 17395 Old Yesterday, 04:44 PM
Senior Member
 
mp5475's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Do you have all 5 in the same room or are you using them for different systems throughout the house? If you have all 5 in the same room I bet they sound insane
All in one room. This new one is going behind my seat for near field.
mp5475 is offline  
post #17373 of 17395 Old Yesterday, 06:11 PM
Senior Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
So you're saying your listening area is 7500 cf without the kitchen (another 2500cf)? For me I would see what sub I preferred for your listening habits and the make a decision, from there it's going to be how many more of what you prefer you're going to need to even come close to pressurizing 7500 cf of open space. That's massive indeed. Do you mind telling us what Tom thinks, I'm just curious. I'm thinking four S3000i's would do nicely.
Cheers Jeff
Actually, one of the things I really appreciate about Tom is that he hasn't ever suggested things like, "you're going to need a lot more than that." The reality for me is that the vast majority of my space is unusable for placement being either overhead in the massively vaulted ceilings which are over 20ft at their apex or in a walkway. Put simply: I have neither the space nor the budget to go with anything larger than 2 of whichever of these options I prefer. Even dual S3000i is $3k which is $500 more than I had budgeted and literally at the top end of what I can afford at the moment.

Moreover, we are planning on a move to a new house in just under a year so my space is likely to change drastically (for the better for this purpose).

My hope is to do at least one of these near-field. But the sub-crawl will tell me what's best of my options.
ahblaza likes this.

Marantz AV7702 | Emotiva XPA-5 | Martin Logan Theos | Ps3 | Roku 3 | Apple TV
nalthien is offline  
post #17374 of 17395 Old Yesterday, 08:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jhughy2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Pos 1 + either Pos2 or Pos3 should work well. I would try both.

You do not need to reset the AVR, but you will need to re-run MCACC...after connecting the MiniDSP (with the MiniDSP "zeroed out" - all gains set to 0, crossovers set to bypass, and no EQ).

Does your AVR EQ dual subs individually or as one?

The sub crawl thing is always worth it, although it's a bit more complicated with dual subs. Here is my standard dual setup procedure, although it assumes Audyssey and no DSP, the basics are the same. It will probably at least tell you if Pos2 or Pos3 is better for the second sub:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!
Ok great guide!!!

A few questions:

I don't have Audyssey with the Pioneer AVR. Will MCACC work the same? It cals the subs as one (Tom said only high end elite versions have the better MCACC that do individual sub eq).

When I place the sub at the MLP am I placing it in front of the couch? That is basically my MLP.

Will I need an SPL meter to test the tones for the phase adjustment?

Living room theater set-up:  
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1124-K.
Speakers/Sub: (4) NHT Classic Two and an NHT TwoC center + PSA-XV15 subwoofer.
HTPC: z97 mobo, 16GB mem, i5-4440, SSD+HD, LG BD drive, Win 8.1 pro w/WMC + MB3.
Content sources: OTA Winegard HD7698P, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Netflix etc.
HDTV: Sharp LC-60SQ15U (ehhh).
jhughy2010 is offline  
post #17375 of 17395 Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mike Butny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orland Park, Il
Posts: 649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Actually, one of the things I really appreciate about Tom is that he hasn't ever suggested things like, "you're going to need a lot more than that." The reality for me is that the vast majority of my space is unusable for placement being either overhead in the massively vaulted ceilings which are over 20ft at their apex or in a walkway. Put simply: I have neither the space nor the budget to go with anything larger than 2 of whichever of these options I prefer. Even dual S3000i is $3k which is $500 more than I had budgeted and literally at the top end of what I can afford at the moment.

Moreover, we are planning on a move to a new house in just under a year so my space is likely to change drastically (for the better for this purpose).

My hope is to do at least one of these near-field. But the sub-crawl will tell me what's best of my options.
For under 3K you can do 3 V1500's and then when you move and put your system in a smaller room ( greater output ) it would be like you purchased 3 new subs again. A win win situation
mnc, oneeyeblind, ahblaza and 1 others like this.

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, Dual PSA XS30se subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
Mike Butny is offline  
post #17376 of 17395 Old Yesterday, 08:57 PM
Senior Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
For under 3K you can do 3 V1500's and then when you move and put your system in a smaller room ( greater output ) it would be like you purchased 3 new subs again. A win win situation
Budget can fit it; my room can't.

Gonna try to put together a layout of my room tonight to show you guys--it's a real nightmare!

Marantz AV7702 | Emotiva XPA-5 | Martin Logan Theos | Ps3 | Roku 3 | Apple TV
nalthien is offline  
post #17377 of 17395 Old Today, 08:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 432
@Alan , with your sub crawl method should I put the XS30SE on the actual chair or in the spot where the chair is, (move the chair), if on the chair how should the drivers be oriented (firing)?
TIA.
Jeff
ahblaza is offline  
post #17378 of 17395 Old Today, 09:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 2,016
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
@Alan , with your sub crawl method should I put the XS30SE on the actual chair or in the spot where the chair is, (move the chair), if on the chair how should the drivers be oriented (firing)?
TIA.
Jeff
Jeff I had wondered this same thing and ended up doing it both ways. When I had front firing subs I actually put it in the chair. When I got the XV15 I decided to do the sub crawl again but due to the down firing nature of the sub I figured a soft seat cushion touching the driver would be a dumb idea so I moved the chair and put the sub on the floor (in the spot of the seat). The result? It didn't make a difference. Both times the sub crawl resulted in the same locations. Personally I suggest moving the seat and putting the sub in that spot, it's a lot easier.

As far as where should the drivers be facing? I doubt it makes a difference due to the omnidirectional nature of bass (unless you put the sub in the chair, then I would face the driver away from the back of the chair). I'm not sure what Alan will say but these were my experience.

On another note. REW revealed one of the best locations from the sub crawl was actually terrible for bass below 30Hz and also had a major (but narrow) dip around 60Hz. Ultimately, the sub crawl just reveals where your bass is loudest or comes across better across a broad range but it doesn't reveal whether it's actually the best spot for you subs.

Only REW can really nail down the best locations. However, the sub crawl is the best we can do with out REW and for the vast majority of people in this world that's good enough.
ahblaza likes this.

Last edited by Hopinater; Today at 09:33 AM.
Hopinater is online now  
post #17379 of 17395 Old Today, 09:38 AM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Anyone received a V1500 yet? Just wondering if they have started shipping.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50
mnc is online now  
post #17380 of 17395 Old Today, 09:43 AM
Senior Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Anyone received a V1500 yet? Just wondering if they have started shipping.
When I ordered, Tom told me that he was expecting the first production run of amplifiers to arrive to him on 3/10 and that orders would start shipping shortly after that--so I don't expect anyone has one just yet.

I will definitely post here as soon as I know mine have shipped and post some photos when they arrive.

Marantz AV7702 | Emotiva XPA-5 | Martin Logan Theos | Ps3 | Roku 3 | Apple TV
nalthien is offline  
post #17381 of 17395 Old Today, 09:49 AM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
When I ordered, Tom told me that he was expecting the first production run of amplifiers to arrive to him on 3/10 and that orders would start shipping shortly after that--so I don't expect anyone has one just yet.

I will definitely post here as soon as I know mine have shipped and post some photos when they arrive.
Good to know thanks!

I've been driving myself (and others) crazy trying to decide on which subwoofer to go with. Well I finally decided on the V1500! I hope to order it next month. Hopefully they will be in stock by then.

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME!

This will be my FIRST subwoofer!
bwilberg266 likes this.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50
mnc is online now  
post #17382 of 17395 Old Today, 10:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,243
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked: 185
^^ A good one for being first.
mnc likes this.
tvuong is online now  
post #17383 of 17395 Old Today, 10:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
climber07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,837
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Good to know thanks!

I've been driving myself (and others) crazy trying to decide on which subwoofer to go with. Well I finally decided on the V1500! I hope to order it next month. Hopefully they will be in stock by then.

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME!

This will be my FIRST subwoofer!
Popping that cherry in style.
lizrussspike likes this.
climber07 is offline  
post #17384 of 17395 Old Today, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
oneeyeblind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked: 238
just a heads up from the PSA Facebook page

Quote:
Hi all, quick update.
The entire first production runs of the S1500 and V1500 are nearly all spoken for at this point. If anyone is "on the fence", please don't wait much longer. Once these are gone it is uncertain when we'll be ready for the second production runs. It may only be 7-10 days or it could be a few weeks. Of course we'll be hounding our vendors daily to minimize any delays.
Also, we have one XV15(non se) on hand. It has a *small* nick on one corner. Anyone looking to double up on an original XV15 now's he time. This is brand new A-stock(except for the nick). $675.
EDIT---sold in 5 minutes!
More cool stuff soon!
https://www.facebook.com/powersoundaudio

ShaunH
oneeyeblind is online now  
post #17385 of 17395 Old Today, 11:04 AM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Yikes! I gotta hurry up and get my new stand to make room for the V1500s!

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50
mnc is online now  
post #17386 of 17395 Old Today, 11:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Jeff I had wondered this same thing and ended up doing it both ways. When I had front firing subs I actually put it in the chair. When I got the XV15 I decided to do the sub crawl again but due to the down firing nature of the sub I figured a soft seat cushion touching the driver would be a dumb idea so I moved the chair and put the sub on the floor (in the spot of the seat). The result? It didn't make a difference. Both times the sub crawl resulted in the same locations. Personally I suggest moving the seat and putting the sub in that spot, it's a lot easier.

As far as where should the drivers be facing? I doubt it makes a difference due to the omnidirectional nature of bass (unless you put the sub in the chair, then I would face the driver away from the back of the chair). I'm not sure what Alan will say but these were my experience.

On another note. REW revealed one of the best locations from the sub crawl was actually terrible for bass below 30Hz and also had a major (but narrow) dip around 60Hz. Ultimately, the sub crawl just reveals where your bass is loudest or comes across better across a broad range but it doesn't reveal whether it's actually the best spot for you subs.

Only REW can really nail down the best locations. However, the sub crawl is the best we can do with out REW and for the vast majority of people in this world that's good enough.


Hop, thanks so much for all that info, it would be so much more convenient to just place the 30SE in the spot where my chair is, it's very difficult for me to lift that sub by myself considering I only weigh 50 pounds more than the sub. Thanks also for the heads up with REW nailing the correct spot.

Speaking of REW is there a particular method to determine the correct location of your subs, I haven't read through all of Jerry's guide yet? I guess it was all worth it for you to implement REW into your setup. I have everything ready to go on a new laptop with 8.1 which I'm still learning to use. I have two other PCs I can use with REW installed, they are both Windows 7 34 bit and 64 bit. Should I just use the laptop or try with the older PCs? I just need a reason to get started and quit this procrastinating
Thanks again hop.
Jeff
Hopinater likes this.
ahblaza is offline  
post #17387 of 17395 Old Today, 11:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Yikes! I gotta hurry up and get my new stand to make room for the V1500s!
What stand would that be?
ahblaza is offline  
post #17388 of 17395 Old Today, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 4,172
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Ok great guide!!!

A few questions:

I don't have Audyssey with the Pioneer AVR. Will MCACC work the same? It cals the subs as one (Tom said only high end elite versions have the better MCACC that do individual sub eq).

When I place the sub at the MLP am I placing it in front of the couch? That is basically my MLP.

Will I need an SPL meter to test the tones for the phase adjustment?
Yes, the theory is the same whether you use Audyssey or MCACC.

As discussed below, you can put the sub directly on your couch (preferred method) or you can move the couch and replace it with the sub (2nd best). I would try to put it in the MLP, but I know with heavier subs that can become difficult (ask me how I know ).

Yes, you will need an SPL meter to set the phase correctly. An SPL meter app will work fine for this though since you are only looking for the setting that is loudest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
@Alan , with your sub crawl method should I put the XS30SE on the actual chair or in the spot where the chair is, (move the chair), if on the chair how should the drivers be oriented (firing)?
TIA.
Jeff
I agree with what Hopi said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Jeff I had wondered this same thing and ended up doing it both ways. When I had front firing subs I actually put it in the chair. When I got the XV15 I decided to do the sub crawl again but due to the down firing nature of the sub I figured a soft seat cushion touching the driver would be a dumb idea so I moved the chair and put the sub on the floor (in the spot of the seat). The result? It didn't make a difference. Both times the sub crawl resulted in the same locations. Personally I suggest moving the seat and putting the sub in that spot, it's a lot easier.

As far as where should the drivers be facing? I doubt it makes a difference due to the omnidirectional nature of bass (unless you put the sub in the chair, then I would face the driver away from the back of the chair). I'm not sure what Alan will say but these were my experience.

On another note. REW revealed one of the best locations from the sub crawl was actually terrible for bass below 30Hz and also had a major (but narrow) dip around 60Hz. Ultimately, the sub crawl just reveals where your bass is loudest or comes across better across a broad range but it doesn't reveal whether it's actually the best spot for you subs.

Only REW can really nail down the best locations. However, the sub crawl is the best we can do with out REW and for the vast majority of people in this world that's good enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hop, thanks so much for all that info, it would be so much more convenient to just place the 30SE in the spot where my chair is, it's very difficult for me to lift that sub by myself considering I only weigh 50 pounds more than the sub. Thanks also for the heads up with REW nailing the correct spot.

Speaking of REW is there a particular method to determine the correct location of your subs, I haven't read through all of Jerry's guide yet? I guess it was all worth it for you to implement REW into your setup. I have everything ready to go on a new laptop with 8.1 which I'm still learning to use. I have two other PCs I can use with REW installed, they are both Windows 7 34 bit and 64 bit. Should I just use the laptop or try with the older PCs? I just need a reason to get started and quit this procrastinating
Thanks again hop.
Jeff
Pushing subs around your room and measuring, re-measuring and pushing some more...lather, rinse, repeat.

Also, keep in mind that just because you have a nice flat graph doesn't mean it will sound good...in my experience at least.


I would use the laptop just for the sake of convenience, but if the PCs are close enough and you don't have too much hassle with cabling, it doesn't really matter either way.
ahblaza likes this.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #17389 of 17395 Old Today, 12:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 4,172
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Speaking of REW is there a particular method to determine the correct location of your subs, I haven't read through all of Jerry's guide yet?
More on this:

The correct way to do this is to measure the response of a single sub in every possible location, compare the graphs and find the 2 locations that compliment each other - if you have a large peak in one location, try to counter it with a null from another location and vice-versa.

This is what I did when I had the quad XS15s (measured like 13-14 possible locations) and it worked great for me...I was still lacking output, but that's a different story.


Here is a copy & paste from a post by Mark Seaton that helped me a lot:

  1. Take a subwoofer only measurement in your first subwoofer location while noting signal levels to the subwoofer and volume setting.
  2. Do NOT change any signal levels and start moving the subwoofer to any other possible locations saving a measurement at each location. The response should be louder or softer from different locations and you want to see this.
  3. Choose the location with the balance of fewest dips and most efficiency across the subwoofer range.
  4. If you have more than 1 subwoofer, pick locations that compliment eachother where dips do not overlap.
  5. With multiple subwoofers overlay individual responses and then measure both together driven at the same level to see how they sum. Maximum summation of 2 equal sources is +6dB. Unless there is a big peak, the goal is to get the sum to be +0-6dB and not negative. Moving the sub or adding delay to the closer sub is my preferred way to make this adjustment.
  6. If manually EQ'ing, now apply EQ to the subwoofer alone while also watching for peaks out to 120-200Hz that go above the target or above flat flat if no HP is in the measurement.
  7. Now run any auto-EQ/room correction.
  8. Measure the subwoofer alone and center channel alone. Then the combination of the 2 as shown in AustinJerry's post above.
  9. Make adjustments to the subwoofer distance setting, most often adding to the physically measured distance at 0-8ms.
  10. Choose the smoothest interaction and adjust the crossovers up or down if you see room for improvement.
  11. If you have separate EQ on the subwoofer you can sometimes improve a lumpy/peaky summation by adding a notch to the subwoofer around the crossover range. The benefit to dialog and music balance far outweighs a small dip to the LFE channel.
  12. Next compare the interaction with the left & right speakers making crossover setting and delay adjustments to get a best fit for both.
  13. The more you listen to movies & surround concerts, the more you should prioritize the center channel vs. left/right.
  14. Now measure what happens when you increase the subwoofer level by 3,6 and 9dB to understand what happens when raising the sub level.
  15. Do some listening and adjust the subwoofer level and/or shape to what you are after, and then re-measure subwoofer-center interaction to insure any ramping up in response you add is as smooth as practical.
  16. Enjoy!


Source: Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs
ahblaza likes this.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #17390 of 17395 Old Today, 01:13 PM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Yikes! I gotta hurry up and get my new stand to make room for the V1500s!
What stand would that be?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007KJ...=IC01JQTF22L2W
mnc is online now  
post #17391 of 17395 Unread Today, 01:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Some advice I would give you concerning the glass shelves, make sure how thick each shelf is and weight capacity. I made the mistake of ordering a particular stand like yours and only the top shelf could support 150 pounds, 1/4" tempered glass and the 2nd and 3rd shelves were 1/8" thick, weight capacity 64 pounds, I had no use for it after assembly, one amp weighed 59 pounds and I had several other heavy components, so now it's a flower pot stand for my wife's indoor plants.
Cheers Jeff
ahblaza is offline  
post #17392 of 17395 Unread Today, 02:01 PM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Dang! I just realized I missed out on the free stuff! Oh well.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50
mnc is online now  
post #17393 of 17395 Unread Today, 03:06 PM
mnc
AVS Special Member
 
mnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Some advice I would give you concerning the glass shelves, make sure how thick each shelf is and weight capacity. I made the mistake of ordering a particular stand like yours and only the top shelf could support 150 pounds, 1/4" tempered glass and the 2nd and 3rd shelves were 1/8" thick, weight capacity 64 pounds, I had no use for it after assembly, one amp weighed 59 pounds and I had several other heavy components, so now it's a flower pot stand for my wife's indoor plants.
Cheers Jeff
Just placed the order for the stand.

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50
mnc is online now  
post #17394 of 17395 Unread Today, 04:17 PM
Member
 
satfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Talking

Just placed my order for 2 V1500. These are going to replace 1 VTF15H mk1. My 11.1 system is all GE: Triton 2, Supercenter XL, Supersat 50s and Supersat 3s for the width and height channels. Looking forward to installing the new subs. But not hauling them upstairs to the HT.
oneeyeblind likes this.
satfam is online now  
post #17395 of 17395 Unread Today, 04:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 2,016
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hop, thanks so much for all that info, it would be so much more convenient to just place the 30SE in the spot where my chair is, it's very difficult for me to lift that sub by myself considering I only weigh 50 pounds more than the sub. Thanks also for the heads up with REW nailing the correct spot.

Speaking of REW is there a particular method to determine the correct location of your subs, I haven't read through all of Jerry's guide yet? I guess it was all worth it for you to implement REW into your setup. I have everything ready to go on a new laptop with 8.1 which I'm still learning to use. I have two other PCs I can use with REW installed, they are both Windows 7 34 bit and 64 bit. Should I just use the laptop or try with the older PCs? I just need a reason to get started and quit this procrastinating
Thanks again hop.
Jeff
Hey Jeff, happy to have helped. Personally I would just use whichever computer is easiest to use and you are comfortable with.

The way to use REW is do exactly what Alan described (great write up Alan). You will get tired of moving subs, running Audyssey, running REW etc... but in the end the results can be spectacular (or at least very good).

I suggest using the sub crawl to find the best three or four spots ahead of time (to save yourself some time and effort) and start with those, they may be very well turn out to be the best spots. REW will either confirm or deny it.
Hopinater is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Xs30 , Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver , Power Sound Audio , Xv15 , Power Sound Audio Triax , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off