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post #17371 of 17376 Unread Today, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I have a bunch of questions... I ordered two V1500's (includes the miniDSP and Umik-1). I have a Pioneer VSX-1124 (which has sub EQ). My 5 speakers/surrounds include NHT Classic Two's and an NHT TwoC center. My entertainment center/TV stand has a 60" LCD. I have a pretty large room. It is about 18x30x9 (4860cf). The front two speakers are atop of 2 foot speakers stands. The rear speakers are ceiling mounted.

My wife has approved three locations for the subs (included in the picture). Surprisingly, the XV15, which I previously owned, sounded best when placed right to the left of the TV stand in between the stand and the left front speaker (Pos 1). I had also placed it in Pos 2 and Pos 3 (near field?) and it sounded ok but strangely not as good as Pos 1. So I'm thinking of placing them in Pos 1 and Pos 2. I would love to place it in a corner but unfortunately the corner is the fireplace (to the left of the couch).

Any suggestions on placement other than these positions? These three positions are probably the most aesthetically pleasing.

More questions: Do I need to reset all the settings as far as sub EQ, before connecting the miniDSP? When I connect the miniDSP (prior to REW), do I need to run the sub EQ with the AVR on each individual sub?

Since I am limited on placement is it worth the time to do the "sub crawl" thing that I hear eveyone talking about here?

I'm really kind of clueless how to set up both of these subs... I just need to know what the first couple of steps are prior to connecting the miniDSP/Umik-1. I obviously will take full advantage of those tools but what do I do first?

Thanks!!!

Pos 1 + either Pos2 or Pos3 should work well. I would try both.

You do not need to reset the AVR, but you will need to re-run MCACC...after connecting the MiniDSP (with the MiniDSP "zeroed out" - all gains set to 0, crossovers set to bypass, and no EQ).

Does your AVR EQ dual subs individually or as one?

The sub crawl thing is always worth it, although it's a bit more complicated with dual subs. Here is my standard dual setup procedure, although it assumes Audyssey and no DSP, the basics are the same. It will probably at least tell you if Pos2 or Pos3 is better for the second sub:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!
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AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #17372 of 17376 Unread Today, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
Do you have all 5 in the same room or are you using them for different systems throughout the house? If you have all 5 in the same room I bet they sound insane
All in one room. This new one is going behind my seat for near field.
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post #17373 of 17376 Unread Today, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
So you're saying your listening area is 7500 cf without the kitchen (another 2500cf)? For me I would see what sub I preferred for your listening habits and the make a decision, from there it's going to be how many more of what you prefer you're going to need to even come close to pressurizing 7500 cf of open space. That's massive indeed. Do you mind telling us what Tom thinks, I'm just curious. I'm thinking four S3000i's would do nicely.
Cheers Jeff
Actually, one of the things I really appreciate about Tom is that he hasn't ever suggested things like, "you're going to need a lot more than that." The reality for me is that the vast majority of my space is unusable for placement being either overhead in the massively vaulted ceilings which are over 20ft at their apex or in a walkway. Put simply: I have neither the space nor the budget to go with anything larger than 2 of whichever of these options I prefer. Even dual S3000i is $3k which is $500 more than I had budgeted and literally at the top end of what I can afford at the moment.

Moreover, we are planning on a move to a new house in just under a year so my space is likely to change drastically (for the better for this purpose).

My hope is to do at least one of these near-field. But the sub-crawl will tell me what's best of my options.

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post #17374 of 17376 Unread Today, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Pos 1 + either Pos2 or Pos3 should work well. I would try both.

You do not need to reset the AVR, but you will need to re-run MCACC...after connecting the MiniDSP (with the MiniDSP "zeroed out" - all gains set to 0, crossovers set to bypass, and no EQ).

Does your AVR EQ dual subs individually or as one?

The sub crawl thing is always worth it, although it's a bit more complicated with dual subs. Here is my standard dual setup procedure, although it assumes Audyssey and no DSP, the basics are the same. It will probably at least tell you if Pos2 or Pos3 is better for the second sub:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!
Ok great guide!!!

A few questions:

I don't have Audyssey with the Pioneer AVR. Will MCACC work the same? It cals the subs as one (Tom said only high end elite versions have the better MCACC that do individual sub eq).

When I place the sub at the MLP am I placing it in front of the couch? That is basically my MLP.

Will I need an SPL meter to test the tones for the phase adjustment?

Living room theater set-up:  
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1124-K.
Speakers/Sub: (4) NHT Classic Two and an NHT TwoC center + PSA-XV15 subwoofer.
HTPC: z97 mobo, 16GB mem, i5-4440, SSD+HD, LG BD drive, Win 8.1 pro w/WMC + MB3.
Content sources: OTA Winegard HD7698P, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Netflix etc.
HDTV: Sharp LC-60SQ15U (ehhh).
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post #17375 of 17376 Unread Today, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Actually, one of the things I really appreciate about Tom is that he hasn't ever suggested things like, "you're going to need a lot more than that." The reality for me is that the vast majority of my space is unusable for placement being either overhead in the massively vaulted ceilings which are over 20ft at their apex or in a walkway. Put simply: I have neither the space nor the budget to go with anything larger than 2 of whichever of these options I prefer. Even dual S3000i is $3k which is $500 more than I had budgeted and literally at the top end of what I can afford at the moment.

Moreover, we are planning on a move to a new house in just under a year so my space is likely to change drastically (for the better for this purpose).

My hope is to do at least one of these near-field. But the sub-crawl will tell me what's best of my options.
For under 3K you can do 3 V1500's and then when you move and put your system in a smaller room ( greater output ) it would be like you purchased 3 new subs again. A win win situation

Equipment List: Benq W6000, Darbee DVP-5000 Video Processor, JKP Affinity 100 inch 16x9 .9 gain reference screen, Onkyo 818 receiver, 3-Marantz Ma700 and 2-Ma6100 mono blocks, 9.2 set-up, B&W Nautilus 805 front speakers, B&W Nautilus HTM2 center speaker, Infinity ( soon to be replaced by B&W ) bookshelf Height Speakers, Mirage HDT-R side speakers, Jamo THX surround one rear speakers, Dual PSA XS30se subs, Richard Grey, Monster Power, and Panamax powerline conditioning/surge protection.
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post #17376 of 17376 Unread Today, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butny View Post
For under 3K you can do 3 V1500's and then when you move and put your system in a smaller room ( greater output ) it would be like you purchased 3 new subs again. A win win situation
Budget can fit it; my room can't.

Gonna try to put together a layout of my room tonight to show you guys--it's a real nightmare!

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