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post #17431 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
the V1500 digs a half octave lower. It is +/-3db @ 16hz vs the XV15se +/-3db @ 21hz. Also the roll off is not as steep so with good room gain you could expect solid extension into the 12hz range. The 12-16hz output should be up significantly because of this. In very large rooms the extension may not be noticeable, but in small-medium rooms it could be very noticeable. Part of the reason why I want to test a ICE amp to do side by side comparisons and measurements.
That is a bigger difference than I thought. I was basing it on the PSA chart which has the little "in room extension" category where the xv15se says 16hz and v1500 says 14hz... That chart seems to defeat most of what you are saying, or maybe I misunderstand what that metric means lol. We all know that wouldn't be a first for me.
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post #17432 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
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Before I placed my order I emailed Tom and asked specifically about how much of a difference the v1500 was over the xv15se. If it was worth it to wait a few weeks or a month or whatever because I'm such an impatient stooge and if the difference was not all that noticable i was just gonna go with the xv15se. Anyways, his response was that the v1500 will "extend a little deeper and play a little louder but they will sound similar in most aspects." I took that as the difference is not huge and that an audition of the xv15se was worth considering. But I have had a couple of majorly awesome sub's before and i know that old "I want more" or "what if" mentality all too well. I'm sure I will love the xv15se, but will I be satisfied? I don't think I've ever felt "satisfied" when it comes to any of my hobbies. Lol. So don't be surprised if I end up with the v1500 in the end. Even if I do feel "satisfied" with the xv15se. Lol.
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post #17433 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 09:53 AM
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^ I started with a XV-15, moved up to a XS-30 and then after adding another XS-30 and placing them correctly, I am finally satisfied!!
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post #17434 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 09:58 AM
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...for now.

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #17435 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by versicolor View Post
Before I placed my order I emailed Tom and asked specifically about how much of a difference the v1500 was over the xv15se. If it was worth it to wait a few weeks or a month or whatever because I'm such an impatient stooge and if the difference was not all that noticable i was just gonna go with the xv15se. Anyways, his response was that the v1500 will "extend a little deeper and play a little louder but they will sound similar in most aspects." I took that as the difference is not huge and that an audition of the xv15se was worth considering. But I have had a couple of majorly awesome sub's before and i know that old "I want more" or "what if" mentality all too well. I'm sure I will love the xv15se, but will I be satisfied? I don't think I've ever felt "satisfied" when it comes to any of my hobbies. Lol. So don't be surprised if I end up with the v1500 in the end. Even if I do feel "satisfied" with the xv15se. Lol.
One point of clarification. When I offer my thoughts on these types of comparisons I assume the source material will be a wide variety of film(and music when applicable). With the discs being played from start to finish. The same as watching a film in its entirety in other words. In this scenario I do feel the XV15se and V1500 will sound similar.

On the other hand...

If we cherry picked a few scenes from a few discs that were known for the loudest and deepest bass available...the V1500 would have a clear advantage.

I really don't like basing recommendations on the latter though. To me, it is sort of like looking at a singular CEA-2010 frequency score and making product judgement.

ALSO---FYI, V1500 first production run is spoken for. We're a few orders into the second run now. It now looks like 3-30 to 3-31 for that.

Tom V.
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post #17436 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by majek 60 View Post
^ I started with a XV-15, moved up to a XS-30 and then after adding another XS-30 and placing them correctly, I am finally satisfied!!
exactly the same here...and believe it or not I haven't touched my subs (upgraded) in over a year
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post #17437 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
One point of clarification. When I offer my thoughts on these types of comparisons I assume the source material will be a wide variety of film(and music when applicable). With the discs being played from start to finish. The same as watching a film in its entirety in other words. In this scenario I do feel the XV15se and V1500 will sound similar.
Almost exactly how I plan on doing my comparison between my S3000i and V1500. The only difference is that I'll be putting together a music tracklist and listening to listening to songs in their entirety. My musical tastes are so broad that there's no way I could listen to enough full albums to fit within my 30 day window.

Starting to compile the list of movies and music now. I'm even going to include some of my kids' stuff (Pixar's Cars has some great audio, imo).

Ok...back to work. No more dreaming of new subwoofers all day! :P
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post #17438 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 10:54 AM
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I think it is really cool you are doing this comparison and already preparing your material.
I think A LOT of people are looking forward to this comparison....The S3000I looks to be of major (ok...HUGE) interest, along with the V1500.....
Best of luck!

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post #17439 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 11:17 AM
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I think it is really cool you are doing this comparison and already preparing your material.
I think A LOT of people are looking forward to this comparison....The S3000I looks to be of major (ok...HUGE) interest, along with the V1500.....
Best of luck!
Thanks! I just wish I more knew what I'm doing when it comes to taking measurements and such--I know people will be interested in that stuff and I'm a total novice in that area.

As an FYI, when it comes time, I will be starting my own thread to discuss it. I'll reference it here, of course--but I don't want to turn this into the "Brian's shootout thread"

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post #17440 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
Thanks! I just wish I more knew what I'm doing when it comes to taking measurements and such--I know people will be interested in that stuff and I'm a total novice in that area.

As an FYI, when it comes time, I will be starting my own thread to discuss it. I'll reference it here, of course--but I don't want to turn this into the "Brian's shootout thread"
Why not? I'd like to see a Brian's shootout thread, seriously.
Cheers Jeff
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post #17441 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by versicolor View Post
Before I placed my order I emailed Tom and asked specifically about how much of a difference the v1500 was over the xv15se. If it was worth it to wait a few weeks or a month or whatever because I'm such an impatient stooge and if the difference was not all that noticable i was just gonna go with the xv15se. Anyways, his response was that the v1500 will "extend a little deeper and play a little louder but they will sound similar in most aspects." I took that as the difference is not huge and that an audition of the xv15se was worth considering. But I have had a couple of majorly awesome sub's before and i know that old "I want more" or "what if" mentality all too well. I'm sure I will love the xv15se, but will I be satisfied? I don't think I've ever felt "satisfied" when it comes to any of my hobbies. Lol. So don't be surprised if I end up with the v1500 in the end. Even if I do feel "satisfied" with the xv15se. Lol.
If you want more than the xv15se then get more, T-18's or bust!!!
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post #17442 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Why not? I'd like to see a Brian's shootout thread, seriously.
Cheers Jeff
Oh, there will be one--it just won't be on the official PSA thread.

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post #17443 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
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That is a bigger difference than I thought. I was basing it on the PSA chart which has the little "in room extension" category where the xv15se says 16hz and v1500 says 14hz... That chart seems to defeat most of what you are saying, or maybe I misunderstand what that metric means lol. We all know that wouldn't be a first for me.
The +/-3db point is what matters the most. Also how steep the roll off is below tune. The V1500 is more like the original XV15(except deeper tune) @ 24db per octave where the XV15se reflects more of a 36-48db per octave slope like a PB12NSD. Also if you look at the description it shows the V1500 in room extension 11-14hz. I am down 6-8db @ 12hz compared to the original XV15. However I want to stress that the improvement from 18hz on up was worth the trade for a steeper roll off.


Look at the frequency response charts between the legacy XV15 and SE. It pretty much supports what I am saying.
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post #17444 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM
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We'll have more FR charts up on the website as time allows. I know we're missing some of the FR and compression stuff for the new products as well as the graphical representation of the "room size" control.

At the moment we're just trying to prepare for 4 or 5 large production runs in the next 3-4 weeks. We have the first run of S1500s, the first run of the V1500s, the first run of the S3000(i) and now we're already taking orders for the second run of the S1500 and second run of the V1500. We're trying to build up as much stock as possible for the XV15se, the XS30se, the T-18, and all of the speakers so we won't need to delay these shipments when we focus on all of the new ICE powered products.

We have a very limited supply of XS15se on hand and our cabinet vendor may not be able to fit more of those in for a while.

Tom V.
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post #17445 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 01:58 PM
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The +/-3db point is what matters the most. Also how steep the roll off is below tune. The V1500 is more like the original XV15(except deeper tune) @ 24db per octave where the XV15se reflects more of a 36-48db per octave slope like a PB12NSD. Also if you look at the description it shows the V1500 in room extension 11-14hz. I am down 6-8db @ 12hz compared to the original XV15. However I want to stress that the improvement from 18hz on up was worth the trade for a steeper roll off.


Look at the frequency response charts between the legacy XV15 and SE. It pretty much supports what I am saying.
I see what you are saying, but if my room was small enough to boost those frequencies to relevant levels I would be going sealed and chasing even deeper extension. I think it's a pretty specific environment that would make what you are saying worthwhile, or perhaps if the v1500 is the absolute max budget, taking xs30se or s3000 out of the question.

I see what you are saying though, thanks for pointing it out.
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post #17446 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The +/-3db point is what matters the most. Also how steep the roll off is below tune. The V1500 is more like the original XV15(except deeper tune) @ 24db per octave where the XV15se reflects more of a 36-48db per octave slope like a PB12NSD. Also if you look at the description it shows the V1500 in room extension 11-14hz. I am down 6-8db @ 12hz compared to the original XV15. However I want to stress that the improvement from 18hz on up was worth the trade for a steeper roll off.


Look at the frequency response charts between the legacy XV15 and SE. It pretty much supports what I am saying.
I think these are great points being made. I also like what you pointed out earlier about room size. I doubt in my situation I would see a big difference over the span of material I play between the V1500 and XV15se just based on the room size. Also what you said about how, in a smaller setting, the perks of the V1500 will really start to become more and more evident is a great point.

Having said that, there is less material below 20Hz and what there is is usually rather short in duration so chasing deeper extension is usually a product of the law of diminishing return. It takes more and more money to reach lower and lower all to play less and less existing material. That always needs to be remembered.

But in this case, the V1500 is only $150 more so that's not too bad at all IMO.
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post #17447 of 17452 Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM
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That is why I plan on testing a ICE amp in my 2400^3 room directly in comparison with the bash amp. I do not expect to get quite the extension of a V1500 but I should at the very least get the extension of a original XV15. When I upgraded my original XV15's to SE models I wish I had done direct comparisons to see if the was a noticeable difference playing source material. I did notice a significant increase in the 20hz region which migh be masking some of the 16hz loss.

To directly answer your question, I think you would only notice the difference in extension if subs will easily pressurize the room. Meaning in very large rooms, I doubt you would be able to discern a difference but in small to medium rooms the difference could be very noticeable.

Remember that the lower you go in frequency the more spl you need. A rough example would be, if your subs are pushing 110db @ 20hz, they would need to be able to produce 118-120db @ 10hz for the bass to sound flat or equal to your ears. It's called the equal loudness curve. Also sub 20hz bass can sound rather bad in rooms not designed for it. When I run my subs at reference during the Pulse server scene, the entire house growls, groans, squeeks, and rattles. Kind of detracts from the overall sound quality. Having a dedicated room with treatments and sound proofing would make the experience much much more enjoyable.
Yeah Bass, I am really looking forward to seeing what you discover when you do this side by side between the two amps.

I'm curious, do you find yourself missing the lower extension of the original XV15 very often (are you continually aware of it not being there)? I'm just curious if you find it to be a very noticeable difference in real world listening and if it's eating away at you knowing what you you lost in the upgrade.
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+-3db at 16hz is a big difference to at 21hz and it is hard to achieve, so $150 in price difference is cheap to get that kind of extension IMO beside having a nicer amp and 1db higher output. In my own experience in my room, I can switch my subs to 18hz or 12hz mode and the difference in 12hz mode is HUGE that I would never run my subs in 18hz mode for higher output.
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Hey Hop, I still can't get the UMIK-1 to be recognized in the REW sound card preferences as an input device. I unplugged the UMIK and powered down the computer and restarted and replugged the UMIK-1 in and still I can't get it to show up in input device on the preference menu in REW. I don't understand this, I even tried it on a PC and the same thing. I just want to get started, PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Jeff
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Hey Hop, I still can't get the UMIK-1 to be recognized in the REW sound card preferences as an input device. I unplugged the UMIK and powered down the computer and restarted and replugged the UMIK-1 in and still I can't get it to show up in input device on the preference menu in REW. I don't understand this, I even tried it on a PC and the same thing. I just want to get started, PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Jeff
Jeff the UMIK-1 allows you to by-pass the sound card.
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Hey you guys need to stop ordering these new subs so Tom can send some to us Aussies
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post #17452 of 17452 Unread Today, 06:19 AM
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Hey Hop, I still can't get the UMIK-1 to be recognized in the REW sound card preferences as an input device. I unplugged the UMIK and powered down the computer and restarted and replugged the UMIK-1 in and still I can't get it to show up in input device on the preference menu in REW. I don't understand this, I even tried it on a PC and the same thing. I just want to get started, PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Jeff
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