Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 589 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17641 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pony9134 View Post
It was an xs30se with original boxing , all the seller said was fedex wouldn't ship becouse it wieghed over 100#, I'm sure there's more to the story that I will never, oh well... Got one on the way directly from you, I know there won't be any problems with this transaction.
Well, "original boxing" might mean boxing for freight or boxing for fedex. We ship XS30se everyday with fedex and the sub box is 127 pounds. The grill box is 17 pounds.

Yup, I just put the shipping labels on your sub a minute ago. You'll love it..

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post #17642 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 12:26 PM
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We used truck freight to ship XS30s for about a year(?). Everything went well for about 10-12 months. We then had multiple (5 total iirc) XS30s completely destroyed by fork lifts within a 15-30 day period. They actually ran the fork THROUGH the driver(s) and ended up ruining the entire product. Okay, mistakes happen. Just call us when it happens so we can have that shipment returned to us AND get a new shipment on the way to the customer immediately to keep their inconvenience to a minimum. Nope. Standard freight policy is to attempt delivery. So we have customers taking entire days off of work just to get a large box with 15" woofer guts hanging out of multiple holes. Oh they were so happy when they called to detail this.

We redesigned the boxing on the XS30(se) to handle the rigors of Fedex and have been VERY happy with their service to date. I'd estimate to date the freight company has lost a minimum of $90,000 because we switched. And all we asked was that we're notified instead of attempting delivery on a *clearly* ruined product. Oliver Tiwst---more gruel please...



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I deal with freight coming in all the time($10-$20,000 copiers and such) and the trucking companies sometimes deliver them completely demolished for us to refuse. From what I understand if they dont try and attempt the delivery then they assume the insurance claim. Since the delivering trucking company is usually not the originating company, the last company in the line does not want to assume financial responsibility-so its policy to attempt delivery of obvious destroyed crap. Passing the buck at its finest at the expense of the person or company that is waiting and paying for the item.
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post #17643 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
We used truck freight to ship XS30s for about a year(?). Everything went well for about 10-12 months. We then had multiple (5 total iirc) XS30s completely destroyed by fork lifts within a 15-30 day period. They actually ran the fork THROUGH the driver(s) and ended up ruining the entire product. Okay, mistakes happen. Just call us when it happens so we can have that shipment returned to us AND get a new shipment on the way to the customer immediately to keep their inconvenience to a minimum. Nope. Standard freight policy is to attempt delivery. So we have customers taking entire days off of work just to get a large box with 15" woofer guts hanging out of multiple holes. Oh they were so happy when they called to detail this.

We redesigned the boxing on the XS30(se) to handle the rigors of Fedex and have been VERY happy with their service to date. I'd estimate to date the freight company has lost a minimum of $90,000 because we switched. And all we asked was that we're notified instead of attempting delivery on a *clearly* ruined product. Oliver Tiwst---more gruel please...

Anyway, long story short. If the seller had the freight boxing he couldn't/shouldn't use fedex anyway. It would have gotten to you in many pieces. Of course all of this should have been researched by the seller prior to the auction too.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Unbelievable how some companies conduct business. I can't imagine how unpleasant those phone calls must have been when people received their new PSA subwoofer with it guts hanging out of the box.
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post #17644 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 12:57 PM
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You guys all know me and how long I've been dealing with PSA. I've had 12 PSA subwoofers in and out of my home and 5 speakers, not once did I experience even a box scratch with my deliveries or returns for upgrades. Perfect record. It's a shame a first time PSA buyer experiences that kind of damage to a subwoofer that Tom described with fork lift holes through the drivers......... That's another detail often over looked with many ID companies is packaging........it cost money for shipping materials
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post #17645 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 01:09 PM
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Shipping update.

The first run of S1500 cabinets were interrupted by an issue at the OEM. We got about half the expected shipment on Tuesday(3-10) the rest will be here mid next week(Tues/Wed). The good news they are adding another half dozen or so to catch us up on ALL current orders(as of 3-12). We even have a couple extra if I counted correctly. The second S1500 run looks like 1st week of April.

The first production run on the V1500s is still on track for Monday/Tuesday of next week(3-16/3-17). All spots here are taken and we're into the second production run scheduled for the last week in March.

The S3000(and S3000i) will be late the same week if all the stars align. Otherwise, early the next week(3-23/3-24) is the schedule. We still have some room on this one.

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post #17646 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Deeper extension, and significantly more mid and upper bass output. From 50hz and up it would be dramatic, something like 10dB. 15-35hz would be close. Cherry pick the 1% of scenes that focus only on the 15-35hz range and you might be thinking...."ummm why did I bother"? Pop in your favorite concert disc or a good action flick and watch it start to finish and you'll know why you bothered..
This comment right here has me so excited about my S3000i! Sure, I'm in a bigger space and we're talking about a V1500 over an XV15se; but, still.
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post #17647 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 03:20 PM
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Few V1500s in the works.

There is a lot of time involved in our "standard" Satin finish..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17648 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Few V1500s in the works.

There is a lot of time involved in our "standard" Satin finish..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Ah...these must be some the units that Jim was measuring outdoors today...

I do like that look it sorta reminds of my Funk sub with a single front 4" but honestly I prefer the look of the XS30 much more...the port kind of irked me after awhile.
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post #17649 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Few V1500s in the works.

There is a lot of time involved in our "standard" Satin finish..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Ooh! I think I see mine! :P
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post #17650 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Few V1500s in the works.

There is a lot of time involved in our "standard" Satin finish..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Hey I see mine! Nice!!! LOL

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post #17651 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 05:12 PM
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Me too! keeping my fingers crossed it gets here before next weekend!

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post #17652 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I was looking at the Cea2010 20-31hz and 40-63hz data.

Triax- 20-31hz -> 125.8db, 40-63hz -> 136.9db

S3000i - 20-31hz -> 119.3, 40-63hz -> 131.3

Now go down to the comparison chart.

S3000i -16-100hz -> 129db

Triax 16-100hz -> 130.9db

T-18 16-100hz -> 132.2db

My point is one set of data shows a 5-6db difference between the Triax and the 3000i and the other set shows about a 2db difference.

Not trying to start a big debate was just curious why 2 different data sets show a vastly different numbers.


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post #17653 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 05:19 PM
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I wish all the new subs has a little bit of rounded edge & corner. It'll just look more classy w/ a little rounded edge I think. I'm still excited to see my V1500 though.
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post #17654 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 07:11 PM
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So thanks to not getting in on the first shipment of S1500's I had some time to keep thinking, and since my wife vetoed a wall in the basement to seal off the home theater, I upgraded to an S3000i I'd call that a silver lining
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post #17655 of 19250 Old 03-12-2015, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by joxong View Post
I wish all the new subs has a little bit of rounded edge & corner. It'll just look more classy w/ a little rounded edge I think. I'm still excited to see my V1500 though.
You know, I was thinking the same thing. Like the XV-15se subs.

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post #17656 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 12:37 AM
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???
Can you link to these?
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post #17657 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 06:16 AM
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So thanks to not getting in on the first shipment of S1500's I had some time to keep thinking, and since my wife vetoed a wall in the basement to seal off the home theater, I upgraded to an S3000i I'd call that a silver lining
Wow, now that is a silver lining.

Good choice. I've learned if there is ever any doubt with subwoofers then it's best to just go ahead and get the bigger more powerful one. Otherwise you'll just end up sitting there and instead of enjoying a movie you'll just be thinking "I wonder what this would sound like with the bigger sub?

The "What if" question is a brain worm that never stops eating away at you.
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post #17658 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilberg266 View Post
So thanks to not getting in on the first shipment of S1500's I had some time to keep thinking, and since my wife vetoed a wall in the basement to seal off the home theater, I upgraded to an S3000i I'd call that a silver lining
Wow, now that is a silver lining.

Good choice. I've learned if there is ever any doubt with subwoofers then it's best to just go ahead and get the bigger more powerful one. Otherwise you'll just end up sitting there and instead of enjoying a movie you'll just be thinking "I wonder what this would sound like with the bigger sub?

The "What if" question is a brain worm that never stops eating away at you.
I can attest to that. I am still auditioning the xv15se but am leaning towards going ahead and returning it and buying the v1500. The xv15se is amazing. But I keep thinking about that little bit more that I could get with the v1500. Just a little bigger, a little more power, a little lower. Why would I not want that? But man the xv15se is outstanding.
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post #17659 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
???
Are you asking me something or replying to yourself?

I'm not sure I really understand the confusion. If you compare two subs from 20-31 and then from 16-100 those number can vary wildly?

From 16-25 the V1500 outguns the S3000i. From 16-100 the 3000i is about DOUBLE the v1500.

I'm not even sure what we're comparing at this point. I think the 4 different ranges in our charts makes everything pretty clear.

Tom V.
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post #17660 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Are you asking me something or replying to yourself?

I'm not sure I really understand the confusion. If you compare two subs from 20-31 and then from 16-100 those number can vary wildly?

From 16-25 the V1500 outguns the S3000i. From 16-100 the 3000i is about DOUBLE the v1500.

I'm not even sure what we're comparing at this point. I think the 4 different ranges in our charts makes everything pretty clear.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


Again if you look at the Cea2010 data that is posted above the chart(20-31hz & 40-63hz ratings), it shows a 5-6db difference between the S3000i and Triax. Now go down to the comparison chart and the difference shown is about 2-3db in all 4 categories(16-25hz, 31-50hz, 63-100hz, 16-100hz).

Again I am not comparing 20-31hz to 16-100hz, I am saying in general that one set of data(cea2010 20-31hz & 40-63hz above the comparison chart) is showing 5-6db difference, when the comparison chart data (cea 2010 16-25, 31-50hz, 63-100hz, 16-100hz) shows roughly a 2-3db difference between the Triax and S3000i. I decided to ask the question after Steve brought up the comparison chart data between the T-18 and S3000i being closer then he expected. If the T-18 has a 2db advantage over the Triax then it should have a 6-7db advantage over the S3000i in the 20-31hz and 40-63hz according to the data posted on your site above the comparison chart?

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post #17661 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
I deal with freight coming in all the time($10-$20,000 copiers and such) and the trucking companies sometimes deliver them completely demolished for us to refuse. From what I understand if they dont try and attempt the delivery then they assume the insurance claim. Since the delivering trucking company is usually not the originating company, the last company in the line does not want to assume financial responsibility-so its policy to attempt delivery of obvious destroyed crap. Passing the buck at its finest at the expense of the person or company that is waiting and paying for the item.
That is waht I was told IIRC. The idea was they would HOPE someone might accept delivery on a % of these. And the claims process, don't even get me started. The whole concept is...make it so time consuming and cumbersome that the majority just give up before completing the process.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17662 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by versicolor View Post
I can attest to that. I am still auditioning the xv15se but am leaning towards going ahead and returning it and buying the v1500. The xv15se is amazing. But I keep thinking about that little bit more that I could get with the v1500. Just a little bigger, a little more power, a little lower. Why would I not want that? But man the xv15se is outstanding.
I'll try to have some comparison FR charts available soon. XS15se + S1500 on one chart. The XV15se + V1500 on another, the XS30se and S3000s on another.

This will allow everyone to see the differences in frequency response.

Hopefully by the end of the day today.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17663 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Again if you look at the Cea2010 data that is posted above the chart(20-31hz & 40-63hz ratings), it shows a 5-6db difference between the S3000i and Triax. Now go down to the comparison chart and the difference shown is about 2-3db in all 4 categories(16-25hz, 31-50hz, 63-100hz, 16-100hz).

Again I am not comparing 20-31hz to 16-100hz, I am saying in general that one set of data(cea2010 20-31hz & 40-63hz above the comparison chart) is showing 5-6db difference, when the comparison chart data (cea 2010 16-25, 31-50hz, 63-100hz, 16-100hz) shows roughly a 2-3db difference between the Triax and S3000i. I decided to ask the question after Steve brought up the comparison chart data between the T-18 and S3000i being closer then he expected. If the T-18 has a 2db advantage over the Triax then it should have a 6-7db advantage over the S3000i in the 20-31hz and 40-63hz according to the data posted on your site above the comparison chart?

There are going to be differences when comparing different frequency ranges. Which identical ranges are you comparing between which two products that show a discrepancy? There certainly might be a typo/error. I've probably gone through 2000(?) different data points now as I've done the whole dB to pascal back to dB for every single DUT available. And I have to verify things like 1m vs 2m, rms vs peak on everyone...sometimes even 3m vs 1m.

Some of what you are saying is incorrect.

>>>If the T-18 has a 2db advantage over the Triax then it should have a 6-7db advantage over the S3000i in the 20-31hz and 40-63hz according to the data posted on your site above the comparison chart?<<<

1) what range does the T-18 have a 2dB advantage over the Triax? From 10hz to about 50hz they are practically even. Check our most recent charts (that break it all down from 16-100hz for both).

2) I'm showing about 5dB difference from 16-50hz(T-18 over the S3000i)...that seems about right, right?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17664 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
2) I'm showing about 5dB difference from 16-50hz(T-18 over the S3000i)...that seems about right, right?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Hi Tom,

The charts are showing about a 2.5dB difference for the T-18 over the S3000i from 16Hz-50Hz, and practically no difference at all above that. I've attached a quick tabulation of the data shown on the site. As basshead notes, there appears to be a disparity between the data on the graphic charts and the text entries for the CEA 2010 data given that the S3000i is ~6dB down from the Triax in the latter, while only being 2.5-3.5dB down in the 16-50Hz range in the former.
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post #17665 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
I deal with freight coming in all the time($10-$20,000 copiers and such) and the trucking companies sometimes deliver them completely demolished for us to refuse. From what I understand if they dont try and attempt the delivery then they assume the insurance claim. Since the delivering trucking company is usually not the originating company, the last company in the line does not want to assume financial responsibility-so its policy to attempt delivery of obvious destroyed crap. Passing the buck at its finest at the expense of the person or company that is waiting and paying for the item.
with FedEx there would not be an interline carrier, FedEx from origin to destination. If it was an interlined shipment then the delivery carrier would be the one to file a claim with but they would work with the origin carrier on joint liability but it could be a time consuming mess, Loss & Damage claims can be a nightmare


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That is waht I was told IIRC. The idea was they would HOPE someone might accept delivery on a % of these. And the claims process, don't even get me started. The whole concept is...make it so time consuming and cumbersome that the majority just give up before completing the process.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


Federal Express has a history of denying claims to the point that employees have testified in court that they were instructed to NEVER pay any claims no matter what, hopefully things have changed. I once worked at a trucking company and sat next to the woman that handled all claims, not a job I'd ever want, the number of negative phone calls she handled made her a not too happy camper to even be around.
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post #17666 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 10:34 AM
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All the charts should have been updated a couple of weeks ago. The original data-sets were from in doors measurements done per CEA-2010 over the winter). Now that we've been able to get outside a few times some of the specific ranges in a few data-sets have changed.

I've been looking at my (updated) printed sheets. The website has old data. Jim is updating them all now. My bad.

My chart for the S3000i is 114.5, 126.7, 136 and 129.

V1500 is 116.7, 124.5, 126.7, 123.8
S3000 is 114.1, 126.2, 133.2, 127.2
S1500 is 109.9, 122.1, 126.7, 121.9

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Last edited by Tom Vodhanel; 03-13-2015 at 10:41 AM.
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post #17667 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrew101 View Post
with FedEx there would not be an interline carrier, FedEx from origin to destination. If it was an interlined shipment then the delivery carrier would be the one to file a claim with but they would work with the origin carrier on joint liability but it could be a time consuming mess, Loss & Damage claims can be a nightmare

Federal Express has a history of denying claims to the point that employees have testified in court that they were instructed to NEVER pay any claims no matter what, hopefully things have changed. I once worked at a trucking company and sat next to the woman that handled all claims, not a job I'd ever want, the number of negative phone calls she handled made her a not too happy camper to even be around.
Fed Ex has been very good to us. We have maybe 0.2%(ish) shipments damaged. And the handful of claims I have had to file have all been paid IIRC. We send them quite a chunk of money annually though that may influence things, not sure.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17668 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 11:56 AM
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S3000 and S3000i(they use the same enclosure). getting in the queue..

I like the recessed T-nuts. No one will ever see the little details...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17669 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post
Hi Tom,

The charts are showing about a 2.5dB difference for the T-18 over the S3000i from 16Hz-50Hz, and practically no difference at all above that. I've attached a quick tabulation of the data shown on the site. As basshead notes, there appears to be a disparity between the data on the graphic charts and the text entries for the CEA 2010 data given that the S3000i is ~6dB down from the Triax in the latter, while only being 2.5-3.5dB down in the 16-50Hz range in the former.
+1 this is what I have been trying to say. Thanks for clarifying.
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Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide --> http://www.mediafire.com/view/aolmz2..._101_v3.92.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
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post #17670 of 19250 Old 03-13-2015, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
+1 this is what I have been trying to say. Thanks for clarifying.

yup, totally on me. I put the new charts on Jim's desk(he does all the web stuff) a week or two ago and just assumed it was all updated on the site.

The indoor measurements seemed to be consistent and repeatable but I just never feel 100% comfortable with them. Now that we've been outside a couple times, CEA-2010 is back on the menu boys...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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