Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 592 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17731 of 33742 Old 03-17-2015, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
I think custom sub orders would do wonders as well. Some people want certain kinds of dimensions and other cosmetic things. Of course would come with a premium price but would be unique

Things like that might be harder too do for PSA because I believe they order cabinets from their supplier in large runs. So it might be a lot harder for them to do custom one offs.
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post #17732 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I feel like there would be a HUGE demand for something a tiny bit smaller and less expensive then the S1500. I need a small sub for my bedroom and am eyeing SVS for this reason.

Come on Tom... S1200??? S1000??? Say $750?
Hmmmm, rather interesting idea? How would one or 2 small sealed subs (10's or 12's) work in conjunction with a non se XS30 for smoothing as they would be easier to place? I now that they would run out of steam way before the XS30, but would they make a good option or be too small and ineffective?
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post #17733 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I feel like there would be a HUGE demand for something a tiny bit smaller and less expensive then the S1500. I need a small sub for my bedroom and am eyeing SVS for this reason.

Come on Tom... S1200??? S1000??? Say $750?
I think the issues here would be several problems.

1. performance cost ( going from a 15 to a 12 would lose a good amount of performance and with the continued focus on output per dollar this would be a popular item. But people might under buy and then label PSA as under performing.

2. The price needed to make this make sense the S1500 is currently 949 so I would aruge that the a 12 inch version would have to be a lot cheaper 700 range to make sense. And with the competition that price range being mostly chinise made its hard to cut costs when your focusing on American made product.

3. As I said going with smaller drive requires more excursion and more engineering work to get similar performance. Right now the S1500 uses a 15 inch driver and its a very good driver, and its not cheap for PSA.

Now imagine trying to get say 75% of the performance of the S1500 in a smaller driver and box with less power while also trying to keep costs in check.... not an easy job.
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post #17734 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
I think custom sub orders would do wonders as well. Some people want certain kinds of dimensions and other cosmetic things. Of course would come with a premium price but would be unique
I don't know the Triax is pretty freaking insane for 3k. Even more when they where offering veneer for below 4k shipped...

But then again Tom and Jim are pretty used to crazy designs.

Old SVS SS Ultra Cylinder (features the ultra 12 second generation driver) and was sold with a K1 Crown amp (1500W) was sold for something like 5 grand shipped. If I remember correctly it also had solid maple end caps and custom machined mental trim rings.



Old SVS B4/Plus had four of the 12 inch plus drivers I think version 2. Sold with either a K1(1500W) or K2 (2500W) Crown amp.



Another example in someones home



I would guess thought that the Triax out preforms them easily above 50Hz and maybe even down low as well.

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post #17735 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 05:20 AM
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Those are some nice looking some in my opinion. When people see them they probably go what is that
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post #17736 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I feel like there would be a HUGE demand for something a tiny bit smaller and less expensive then the S1500. I need a small sub for my bedroom and am eyeing SVS for this reason.

Come on Tom... S1200??? S1000??? Say $750?
Never say never but there are a few considerations to think about here.

Inventory cost, space in the warehouse(which is at a premium right now), and target MSRP. Jim and I have gone through this process in the past and it would be impossible to approach the $750 price point while maintaining the same build quality and component quality in our current products. It may seem counter intuitive but a S1200 or even a S1000 with the same component quality would not be much less expensive to manufacturer than the S1500.

Factor in the engineering time involved in a new product(3-6-9 months) that we would need to recoup at some point and I'm not seeing this happen anytime in the near future unfortunately.

A sustainable business model needs to focus on the market(s) where they can provide maximum value(cost/performance ratio). Trying to be everything to everybody...that is something that rarely works out in the long run.

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post #17737 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I agree. I went for the V1500 for several reasons:
-New model and I knew I wanted to add a second down the road. Didn't want to worry about no longer offering the older model.
-Deeper tuning than the XV15/30se
-Price. Much cheaper than a pair of S3000s, also ported might work better in my room.
We have a bunch of data in the CLIO PC I want to share but I need Jim to export it to me and to say he's busy right now is the under statement of the year.

Anyway, the XS15se and S1500 comparison FR as well as the V1500 and XV15se comparison FR show all the changes which are mainly limited to <30hz region.

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post #17738 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
I'm sure that it simplifies business for PSA to limit the driver sizes they have at any given time. Right now they've got a 15" and 18" driver. My understanding is that the 15" is the same across the entire line which makes supply chain management a lot easier.

Adding a 12" or 10" driver to the mix would add complexity that I'm not sure these guys want at this point.

That said...

I also have a secondary room that's much smaller and I'm looking at something smaller for that space.

We have several different 15" drivers for the various products. There would be no way to use the same one on all products and even be remotely optimized.

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post #17739 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:40 AM
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^^ well I guess an S1500 isn't that much bigger (footprint) than a SB2000.
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post #17740 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
I think custom sub orders would do wonders as well. Some people want certain kinds of dimensions and other cosmetic things. Of course would come with a premium price but would be unique
Everyone would LOVE customization options but very few would embrace the related costs. Look at the pricing for the only ID company I can think of doing quality custom cabinets...Funk Audio.

Custom dimensions would be a problem for us too--- unless they just happened to have the same (effective) internal volume. If that changes, we're back to measuring outside numerous times just to know how to optimize the DSP code for this one order. There is a big difference between bolting a big driver to a big box and spending as much engineering time as necessary to optimize the entire system..

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post #17741 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:53 AM
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That is true didn't think of that
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post #17742 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
We have a bunch of data in the CLIO PC I want to share but I need Jim to export it to me and to say he's busy right now is the under statement of the year.

Anyway, the XS15se and S1500 comparison FR as well as the V1500 and XV15se comparison FR show all the changes which are mainly limited to <30hz region.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
I can't wait to see the charts, but more importantly I can't wait to hear mine!
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post #17743 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 10:42 AM
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I still can't believe we don't have an S1500 owner chiming in here with their first hand review on it's performance! There's got to be one or two in here lurking...

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post #17744 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bwilberg266 View Post
I still can't believe we don't have an S1500 owner chiming in here with their first hand review on it's performance! There's got to be one or two in here lurking...
There's been a few on their facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/powersoundaudio

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post #17745 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
We have several different 15" drivers for the various products. There would be no way to use the same one on all products and even be remotely optimized.
Very cool--that's good to know! I do remember reading somewhere that the S3000i used different drivers; but, I didn't realize you had several models.

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post #17746 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Never say never but there are a few considerations to think about here.

Inventory cost, space in the warehouse(which is at a premium right now), and target MSRP. Jim and I have gone through this process in the past and it would be impossible to approach the $750 price point while maintaining the same build quality and component quality in our current products. It may seem counter intuitive but a S1200 or even a S1000 with the same component quality would not be much less expensive to manufacturer than the S1500.

Factor in the engineering time involved in a new product(3-6-9 months) that we would need to recoup at some point and I'm not seeing this happen anytime in the near future unfortunately.

A sustainable business model needs to focus on the market(s) where they can provide maximum value(cost/performance ratio). Trying to be everything to everybody...that is something that rarely works out in the long run.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
It doesn't help that a lot of the competition putting out subs in that price range are also willing to assemble all parts in china and have no parts sourced from the USA. Or cut corners such as use vinyl rap, and other parts that result in lower build quality.
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post #17747 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
There's been a few on their facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/powersoundaudio
I saw those two, but figured there would be someone in here piping up and answering questions from people in the forum.

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post #17748 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
^^ well I guess an S1500 isn't that much bigger (footprint) than a SB2000.
I think the S1500 is more comparable to the SB13-Ultra in terms of footprint and overall dimensions (although the S1500's cabinet is actually smaller, I believe). I love the value and performance the PSA subs offer, but I like the aesthetic design of the SVS better. I wonder if it would be possible to get a S1500 with rounded edges and a metal grille that the SVS has
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post #17749 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:32 AM
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It doesn't help that a lot of the competition putting out subs in that price range are also willing to assemble all parts in china and have no parts sourced from the USA. Or cut corners such as use vinyl rap, and other parts that result in lower build quality.
My sub is sourced from China, but assembled and quality checked here in the U.S. It's built like a tank and the vinyl wrap looks damn good for not being a real wood veneer. Also, the rounded corners are a nice touch too!

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post #17750 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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My sub is sourced from China, but assembled and quality checked here in the U.S. It's built like a tank and the vinyl wrap looks damn good for not being a real wood veneer. Also, the rounded corners are a nice touch too!
Granted maybe I could have been nicer about it but there is a truth to what I said. For example going from the BASH amp to ICE was more expensive because its assembled here. So when you add sourcing and building here you can't really cut down prices.

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post #17751 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 11:50 AM
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Granted maybe I could have been nicer about it but there is a truth to what I said. For example going from the BASH amp to ICE was more expensive because its assembled here. So when you add sourcing and building here you can't really cut down prices.
No offense taken, but you had to have known someone would chime in on your comment. I'm not sure how Tom and Jim manage to keep everything in the states, but hats off to them.
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Ugg. FedEx left the XV15 on my front porch. I'll have to hope it doesn't wander off before I get home. 2.5 hours to go...
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Ugg. FedEx left the XV15 on my front porch. I'll have to hope it doesn't wander off before I get home. 2.5 hours to go...
YIKES!!!

Um…..Where do you live?
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Ugg. FedEx left the XV15 on my front porch. I'll have to hope it doesn't wander off before I get home. 2.5 hours to go...
Doh! Well, the thing weighs like 95lbs. If it does get drug off you'll probably be able to follow the skid marks.
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Ugg. FedEx left the XV15 on my front porch. I'll have to hope it doesn't wander off before I get home. 2.5 hours to go...
All subwoofer and speaker shipments are "signature required" unless a change is requested by the customer. If ANYTHING is amiss here let me know immediately. Also, you can put in your tracking number and request to see the signature who signed for it as well I believe.

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post #17756 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 01:22 PM
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Hi all,


Here is the S1500 FR versus the XS15se FR. The S1500 extends a bit deeper, is smoother, and has a slightly better DSP shaped rolloff as well. And with the room size control it can actually be optimized better for small to VERY small rooms too.

Measurements taken with a high resolution CLIO rig, outside at 2 meters.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #17757 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
All subwoofer and speaker shipments are "signature required" unless a change is requested by the customer. If ANYTHING is amiss here let me know immediately. Also, you can put in your tracking number and request to see the signature who signed for it as well I believe.

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Tom, this is the one area where Fedex ground can be an issue as not all of Fedex ground delivery trucks are Fedex owned. Many are subcontractors that own the route. That is what we have here at work and we are lucky enough to have a very good owner of the route. Some other route owners in this area are terrible and do not follow the Fedex rules if it means lost time and revenue on their driver.
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I am anxiously waiting for the reviews of the V1500 as I am seriously thinking of 2 of these units to use as stands for my MTM210 mains and replace the one XS30. The height of the V1500's would put the horns almost in a perfect line, unlike now where the L/R are lower than the center. If the reviews are as good as I think that they will be and I have good response from the positioning that I will use, I just might be looking to sell my XS30.
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post #17759 of 33742 Old 03-18-2015, 01:42 PM
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Hi all,


Here is the S1500 FR versus the XS15se FR. The S1500 extends a bit deeper, is smoother, and has a slightly better DSP shaped rolloff as well. And with the room size control it can actually be optimized better for small to VERY small rooms too.

Measurements taken with a high resolution CLIO rig, outside at 2 meters.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Keep those charts coming! (you know, with all that free time you have on your hands) I'm drooling over here in anticipation for (hopefully) next weeks delivery

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Not too fond of our driver. My wife caught him rolling our first XV15 to the door and went out to help him so he would stop. The next time we interacted with him was when I had scheduled a pickup.. he entered in his log that there was no pickup and when I called the 800 number and asked them to send him back he told me that he hadn't come by yet and that he had no idea why the tracking system said that (He wouldn't look me in the eye though).

The last time I saw him he threw a package and hit our front door with it.

Our last driver was much better..
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