Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 601 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #18001 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 06:44 PM
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Looks like I'll have to chat with Tom. I've got everything set per the PSA user manual and still nothing. Gain up to 12:00. Unplugged and re plugged multiple times. Crossover at 150. Switched both ends of sub cable. When I pull it out of the receiver and touch the end, it does make a loud hum from the sub. It still says "no" for subwoofer after running Audyssey. It's like its not recognizing.
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post #18002 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UNCMT9 View Post
Looks like I'll have to chat with Tom. I've got everything set per the PSA user manual and still nothing. Gain up to 12:00. Unplugged and re plugged multiple times. Crossover at 150. Switched both ends of sub cable. When I pull it out of the receiver and touch the end, it does make a loud hum from the sub. It still says "no" for subwoofer after running Audyssey. It's like its not recognizing.
That happened to me and it was a bad sub jack on my receiver. Somehow the path was broken in the actual connection, but I would still get that loud humming sound when I made metal to metal contact with the outer rim of the jack.

Let us know what he says but I think that's what it is. Did you plug in the old sub to see if the receiver recognized it?
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post #18003 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Care to let us know what it was so the next "idiot" can know what to look out for?





My guess would be that you now have "Double Large Room Mode".

Running Audyssey with it set to "Small Room" in a large-ish room, Audyssey will add some boost to the low end. Then setting it to "Large Room Mode" you are essentially double-boosting the low end. Could cause issues with headroom at higher volume levels, but if you aren't hearing any distortion you should be fine.
Yeah Allan in the plug in up at the top right there was a button that said 'Audio Off'. It evidently defaulted to off.

I moved my sub around the little bit that I could and am not real happy with my results post EQ. Now that I am more confident getting it all to work I am going to start over I think. I have a lot of issues in my room I am probably just going to have to live with. Tom helped me a ton today, thanks Tom!

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post #18004 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
Yeah Allan in the plug in up at the top right there was a button that said 'Audio Off'. It evidently defaulted to off.

I moved my sub around the little bit that I could and am not real happy with my results post EQ. Now that I am more confident getting it all to work I am going to start over I think. I have a lot of issues in my room I am probably just going to have to live with. Tom helped me a ton today, thanks Tom!
I have tremendous room issues I'll need to overcome as well. Did you do the sub crawl today?
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post #18005 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I have tremendous room issues I'll need to overcome as well. Did you do the sub crawl today?
Without going wireless i can really only be up front on either side of my media stand. Even just moving a few inches showed differences. I tried both sides of the media stand and in the end about 6 inches farther out from the wall and 6 inches left of where i started is where i ended up. It was a little better but not much. I made an improvement with the miniDSP eq but i think i can do better than i did on my first try. I will give it one more shot then live with my results.

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post #18006 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Thanks for your help Alan... I'm not quite sure why I decided to run MCACC with only one sub connected. Maybe I read that somewhere. I guess I thought that only having one sub calibrated would correctly set the distance for the sub. I have the subs equidistant from the MLP.

The Pioneer MCACC manual describes the following EQ Types:

Symmetry: Implements symmetric correction for each pair of left and right speakers to flatten the frequency-amplitude characteristics.

All Channel Adjust: Is a 'flat' setting where all the speakers are set individually so no special weighting is given to any one channel.

Front Align: Sets all speakers in accordance with the front speaker settings (no equalization is applied to the front left and right channels).

The manual has a note that EQ of the subwoofer is automatically set when in All Channel Adjust.

Some of the stuff is confusing to me... anyhow, with that said should I run MCACC with All Channel Adjust still?
I run mine in Symetry mode. I may have to try all channel adjust next time. If you look at the MCACC graphs that you get of your speakers after you run that do they all look pretty close if you select the After EQ option to view the graphs? Like the attached(only i have before EQ selected)? Symetry on mine does them all but the sub..which I don't care since I'm attempting to use the miniDSP for that.
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post #18007 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 08:28 PM
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^^^hmm I'll have to check that. I haven't seen the graphs before.
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post #18008 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
^^^hmm I'll have to check that. I haven't seen the graphs before.
It's on the bottom left side of the app on the ipad anyway. Labeled MCACC Settings I think but don't quote me. I have a feeling your reciever is really just setting the line levels for the sub and checking phase/distance. I would be surprised if you have a graph there for the sub..which means it is not EQing the sub. My next upgrade may be to the SC-85 partially for MCACC Pro which looks to do more than MCACC Advanced the SC-63 has. Edit..check that it shows right on the pic I included what it's called. Take a look at that...let me know if you have a graph for you sub. EDIT again. Looked up your reciever i see what you are talking about with the sub eq. I wouldn't worry about that eq if you are using REW.
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post #18009 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Some one please help me to post my graphs from REW, I tried everything and don'y know what I'm doing.
I just did a double take...seriously!!
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post #18010 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 09:34 PM
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Was wondering If it's ok to place a XV15 on its side like this? I haven't played anything with it like this I just took the picture. The actual woofer is facing the screen.
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post #18011 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
@Alan , I think that second graph was the first measurement I took of the left speaker and it looked pretty good, I don't think I'm posting the real measurements.

At least I'm trying. Can I select just subs, subs +CC, subs + L subs + R etc?
What are the designations of the HDMI outputs 1-8 ? TIA

I want to know what's going on in my room, or do you suggest I keep following Jerry's guide as the next step is waterfalls? I finally got everything to work with the ASIO driver
Cheers Jeff

Jeff,

Here is the designation for all the HDMI output channels in REW:
  • CH1 = FL
  • CH2 = FR
  • CH3 = CC
  • CH4 = LFE - sub(s) only, will output 10db higher than all other channels
  • CH5 = SL
  • CH6 = SR
  • CH7 = SBL
  • CH9 = SBR

  • To output to front left + sub(s) you would choose CH1 (with bass management engaged).
  • To output to front right + sub(s) you would choose CH2 (with bass management engaged).
  • To output to CC + sub(s) you would choose CH3 (with bass management engaged).
  • To output to sub(s) only you would choose either CH4 (LFE, outputs 10db higher than other channels and disregards crossover settings), OR choose CH1, CH2 or CH3 and unplug the speaker (will output at the same level as other speakers and retains crossover settings).
  • To output to FL+FR+sub(s) you would choose CH1 in the output and CH2 in the "timing reference output" dropdown (not very intuitive, but if you want to output to two channels at once, but you choose the second channel in the "timing reference output" dropdown).



Your next measurements should be (with bass management engaged):
  • 10hz-300hz, CH1
  • 10hz-300hz, CH2
  • 10hz-300hz, CH3
  • 10hz-300hz, CH1+CH2
  • 10hz-300hz, CH4 (set LPF for LFE to 250hz for this measurement only!)


Post graphs with NO SMOOTHING and the limits set to:

Vertical = 55db - 105db
Horizontal = 10hz - 300hz



Good luck Jeff!
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post #18012 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
Without going wireless i can really only be up front on either side of my media stand. Even just moving a few inches showed differences. I tried both sides of the media stand and in the end about 6 inches farther out from the wall and 6 inches left of where i started is where i ended up. It was a little better but not much. I made an improvement with the miniDSP eq but i think i can do better than i did on my first try. I will give it one more shot then live with my results.

Why not go wireless????


Be careful with the MiniDSP EQ...you don't want too many filters (3 is my limit) and DO NOT boost over 3db on any filter, especially if it's an null...you'll just be pouring watts in to a black hole.
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post #18013 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
It's on the bottom left side of the app on the ipad anyway. Labeled MCACC Settings I think but don't quote me. I have a feeling your reciever is really just setting the line levels for the sub and checking phase/distance. I would be surprised if you have a graph there for the sub..which means it is not EQing the sub. My next upgrade may be to the SC-85 partially for MCACC Pro which looks to do more than MCACC Advanced the SC-63 has. Edit..check that it shows right on the pic I included what it's called. Take a look at that...let me know if you have a graph for you sub. EDIT again. Looked up your reciever i see what you are talking about with the sub eq. I wouldn't worry about that eq if you are using REW.

You guys really need to get Audyssey XT32, it's the current Gold Standard for auto-EQ. I would definitely not settle for any auto-EQ that didn't even touch the sub frequencies.

The Denon 4520 can be had for a ridiculously low price right now.
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post #18014 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
Was wondering If it's ok to place a XV15 on its side like this? I haven't played anything with it like this I just took the picture. The actual woofer is facing the screen.
Should be fine

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post #18015 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
It's on the bottom left side of the app on the ipad anyway. Labeled MCACC Settings I think but don't quote me. I have a feeling your reciever is really just setting the line levels for the sub and checking phase/distance. I would be surprised if you have a graph there for the sub..which means it is not EQing the sub. My next upgrade may be to the SC-85 partially for MCACC Pro which looks to do more than MCACC Advanced the SC-63 has. Edit..check that it shows right on the pic I included what it's called. Take a look at that...let me know if you have a graph for you sub. EDIT again. Looked up your reciever i see what you are talking about with the sub eq. I wouldn't worry about that eq if you are using REW.
If it is EQing the sub I definitely would like to try it. It looks like it adjusts four points with my version of MCACC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You guys really need to get Audyssey XT32, it's the current Gold Standard for auto-EQ. I would definitely not settle for any auto-EQ that didn't even touch the sub frequencies.

The Denon 4520 can be had for a ridiculously low price right now.
Yes I definitely will be upgrading to the a better AVR once things settle down a bit. I just spent a lot of dough on these subs

If I were to buy an AVR right now though it would be the Marantz SR7009. The only thing I don't like is the lack of HDCP 2.2 so ultimately I would just wait till next years models.
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post #18016 of 29820 Old 03-25-2015, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
It's on the bottom left side of the app on the ipad anyway. Labeled MCACC Settings I think but don't quote me. I have a feeling your reciever is really just setting the line levels for the sub and checking phase/distance. I would be surprised if you have a graph there for the sub..which means it is not EQing the sub. My next upgrade may be to the SC-85 partially for MCACC Pro which looks to do more than MCACC Advanced the SC-63 has. Edit..check that it shows right on the pic I included what it's called. Take a look at that...let me know if you have a graph for you sub. EDIT again. Looked up your reciever i see what you are talking about with the sub eq. I wouldn't worry about that eq if you are using REW.
I was able to see the reverb view but it didn't have a before/after for the sub. It did have one for the rest of the speakers though.
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post #18017 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You guys really need to get Audyssey XT32, it's the current Gold Standard for auto-EQ. I would definitely not settle for any auto-EQ that didn't even touch the sub frequencies.

The Denon 4520 can be had for a ridiculously low price right now.
I don't know why I have just never been a fan of Denon. I know they are ok. I used to be a big Marantz fan until i got my Elite. The sound quality of the Elites in the SC series to me just sounded better. If anything I would jump to the Sc-85 with MCACC pro. Mine 3 model years old and they have definitely made some improvements.
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post #18018 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Why not go wireless????


Be careful with the MiniDSP EQ...you don't want too many filters (3 is my limit) and DO NOT boost over 3db on any filter, especially if it's an null...you'll just be pouring watts in to a black hole.
Going wireless would really just add one more option and that would place the sub kind if in a high trafic area. My room is about 16.5 feet wide and 33ish feet long. The back half of the room is kind of a lounge area with a couch and TV back there. I have a big 4 seat bar right in the middle of the room pointing towards the screen with media seats right in front of that. So there's a small walkway on both sides of the bar/couch. I took a panoramic photo of it once when I first got it done I should try to track that down. Here's a pic of where I ended up yesterday, about 6 inches from where I started. I'm kind of thinking about moving my speakers in a foot or so and putting it clear in the front left corner but I'm not sure how that will work out.

I ended up with 6 filters...I'll have to keep that in mind when I redo it...hopefully tomorrow.
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post #18019 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I was able to see the reverb view but it didn't have a before/after for the sub. It did have one for the rest of the speakers though.
I guess I'd use the mode that says it EQ's the sub. I'm going to try that mode when I do mine. The details of mine don't list that it EQ's the sub but I think from some reading I have done it maybe does in that same mode you mentioned. Yours is also a current model so that probably adds some features.

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Originally Posted by UNCMT9 View Post
Looks like I'll have to chat with Tom. I've got everything set per the PSA user manual and still nothing. Gain up to 12:00. Unplugged and re plugged multiple times. Crossover at 150. Switched both ends of sub cable. When I pull it out of the receiver and touch the end, it does make a loud hum from the sub. It still says "no" for subwoofer after running Audyssey. It's like its not recognizing.
I hope you get your issue resolved. However, I can tell you that plugging an unplugging equipment with the power on is a sure fire way to ensure you continue to have problems.
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post #18021 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
Going wireless would really just add one more option and that would place the sub kind if in a high trafic area. My room is about 16.5 feet wide and 33ish feet long. The back half of the room is kind of a lounge area with a couch and TV back there. I have a big 4 seat bar right in the middle of the room pointing towards the screen with media seats right in front of that. So there's a small walkway on both sides of the bar/couch. I took a panoramic photo of it once when I first got it done I should try to track that down. Here's a pic of where I ended up yesterday, about 6 inches from where I started. I'm kind of thinking about moving my speakers in a foot or so and putting it clear in the front left corner but I'm not sure how that will work out.

I ended up with 6 filters...I'll have to keep that in mind when I redo it...hopefully tomorrow.
That's a nice looking set-up. I wish I had the room for a projector (living room is just too bright).
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post #18022 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 07:43 AM
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That's a nice looking set-up. I wish I had the room for a projector (living room is just too bright).
Tomorrow I'm going to try moving my main speaker there in the photo to the right about a foot or slightly more. That should allow people on the back row to still see the screen. Then I'm going to slide the sub over to the left in front of that verticle bulkhead. I'll have a little room to move it around here and there over there. I'm hoping that makes a difference. I don't have a cable that long yet but for now I'll use a coupler to make one that long.
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post #18023 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Blaine Morrissey View Post
Going wireless would really just add one more option and that would place the sub kind if in a high trafic area. My room is about 16.5 feet wide and 33ish feet long. The back half of the room is kind of a lounge area with a couch and TV back there. I have a big 4 seat bar right in the middle of the room pointing towards the screen with media seats right in front of that. So there's a small walkway on both sides of the bar/couch. I took a panoramic photo of it once when I first got it done I should try to track that down. Here's a pic of where I ended up yesterday, about 6 inches from where I started. I'm kind of thinking about moving my speakers in a foot or so and putting it clear in the front left corner but I'm not sure how that will work out.

I ended up with 6 filters...I'll have to keep that in mind when I redo it...hopefully tomorrow.
Try turning off the filters one by one in the REW EQ panel to see if they are really needed or not....sometimes REW creates filters that are really superfluous.
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post #18024 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UNCMT9 View Post
Looks like I'll have to chat with Tom. I've got everything set per the PSA user manual and still nothing. Gain up to 12:00. Unplugged and re plugged multiple times. Crossover at 150. Switched both ends of sub cable. When I pull it out of the receiver and touch the end, it does make a loud hum from the sub. It still says "no" for subwoofer after running Audyssey. It's like its not recognizing.
1)In the receiver setup menu, please be *sure* you have ALL speakers set to small/80hz. And the subwoofer set to ON/YES

2)Try playing some bassy music or a bassy movie scene.

If the subwoofer works, then we know the problem is with the AUDY setup. If the subwoofer doesn't work can you try plugging a portable music playing directly into one of the subwoofer inputs?

Also, as mentioned, you should always power down every component before connecting or disconnecting cables or wires. You are basically showing that component a momentary short circuit otherwise. This can lead to all sorts of problems/damage.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #18025 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Try turning off the filters one by one in the REW EQ panel to see if they are really needed or not....sometimes REW creates filters that are really superfluous.
X2!


I think the mini dsp should be a last resort approach. The first thing a new sub owner should do is read up on REW and start measuring. Exhaust all placement and setup options first, then if the response still leaves something to be desired add the mini dsp in the chain.
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Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
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post #18026 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
X2!


I think the mini dsp should be a last resort approach. The first thing a new sub owner should do is read up on REW and start measuring. Exhaust all placement and setup options first, then if the response still leaves something to be desired add the mini dsp in the chain.
I agree with you for sure. I'm hoping to make some improvements with what really is my only other good placement option. I'll reduce it down to 2-3 filters at most if I can. I think my next placement option might be a little better...at least I'm telling myself that now.
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post #18027 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
X2!


I think the mini dsp should be a last resort approach. The first thing a new sub owner should do is read up on REW and start measuring. Exhaust all placement and setup options first, then if the response still leaves something to be desired add the mini dsp in the chain.
Nothing against Tom, but with all the issues you and I (and many others) have had with the MiniDSP and then ended up not using it, I think Tom is asking for a lot of headaches from customer issues by including the MiniDSP....just my 2 cents.
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post #18028 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 09:35 AM
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Where's Jeff?? I wanna see more graphs!!
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post #18029 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 10:24 AM
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Nothing against Tom, but with all the issues you and I (and many others) have had with the MiniDSP and then ended up not using it, I think Tom is asking for a lot of headaches from customer issues by including the MiniDSP....just my 2 cents.
I gotta say though my 'issues' were user error. I just didn't see that button at the top right and never thought about it defaulting to off. The device itself and interface work pretty easy.

Let me ask a REW question. When you take your measurements do you use the 90 degree calibration file and point the mic straight up or do you use the other file and have the mic level?

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post #18030 of 29820 Old 03-26-2015, 10:46 AM
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90 degree, straight up.

The issues with the MiniDSP I eluded to are with output voltage and clipping of the sub, not really set up issues.
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