Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread - Page 607 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18181 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 01:43 PM
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I think I might be pushing the limits of a single V1500. I wonder if two will be enough, or if I need to consider dual S3000i's? I'm going to try listening -5dB less to emulate the added output of duals. Not sure if there is a better way.

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post #18182 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 01:54 PM
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^^ how big is the room? Do you have an ability to measure your FR?
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post #18183 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 02:12 PM
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^^^

Tell us what you've done to optimize the sub.

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post #18184 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 02:13 PM
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Don't have any way to measure. room is only 17'W x 15.5'D but it has vaulted ceilings and is open to the foyer, kitchen, and dining room. I just spent some time chatting with Tom and he feels I should be fine once I add a second V1500. Doesn't think I would benefit from going to S3000i. I'm Going to turn dynamic EQ off. See if that helps.
Another thing, I'm not entirely sure the "noises" I'm hearing are coming from the sub or my room!

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post #18185 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 02:21 PM
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^^^ Did you see my post regarding the mic stand and positions when running Audyssey? I prefer Dynamic EQ on and feel like the bass disappears whenever I have turned it off in the past. If you don't listen at super loud volumes it really is a nice feature.

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post #18186 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
^^^ Did you see my post regarding the mic stand and positions when running Audyssey? I prefer Dynamic EQ on and feel like the bass disappears whenever I have turned it off in the past. If you don't listen at super loud volumes it really is a nice feature.
I have a stand but I only used 5 locations on my sofa.
Spaced like this:
3-5-1-4-2

I'm trying as many things as I can. I don't have placement options at all so I never got REW. I did turn off dynamic eq and that seemed to help. Also I seem to prefer the room size set to small.

Still playing around with everything. It's entirely possible that the noises I'm hearing are coming from my room, just really difficult to determine.

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post #18187 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 02:49 PM
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^^ DynEQ boosts bass up to reference volume. I always have it on with DynVol off. What did it help with dynEQ off? What volume did you listen at? Having a nice sub and not having placement option is tough to get great bass unless you are lucky. Having a second V1500 will definitely helps. Do you hear noise with nothing playing?

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post #18188 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

Tell us what you've done to optimize the sub.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Don't have any way to measure. room is only 17'W x 15.5'D but it has vaulted ceilings and is open to the foyer, kitchen, and dining room. I just spent some time chatting with Tom and he feels I should be fine once I add a second V1500. Doesn't think I would benefit from going to S3000i. I'm Going to turn dynamic EQ off. See if that helps.
Another thing, I'm not entirely sure the "noises" I'm hearing are coming from the sub or my room!
I meant; did you do a sub crawl, distance tweak, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I have a stand but I only used 5 locations on my sofa.
Spaced like this:
3-5-1-4-2

I'm trying as many things as I can. I don't have placement options at all so I never got REW. I did turn off dynamic eq and that seemed to help. Also I seem to prefer the room size set to small.

Still playing around with everything. It's entirely possible that the noises I'm hearing are coming from my room, just really difficult to determine.
So, I guess you did NOT do a sub crawl then.

If you have no placement options, where do you plan to put the second sub? On top of the first?? You must have at least 2 options.....


Seriously, if you want to get your money's worth out of a sub or subs, you need to be more flexible with placement. Your single sub just might do it for you if you found the right spot for it (via the sub crawl). If you don't at least try, you might as well throw your money out the window....a great sub in a bad spot is not worth paying these kind of prices for.

My 2 cents.
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post #18189 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 03:30 PM
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I have a new stand arriving Wednesday that is smaller so that I will have two places for sub(s). Right now I only have room for one. I know everyone says to find the best placement but that is simply not an option for me. I know that just putting the subs up front next to my mains is probably not optimum placement but I just don't have ANYWHERE ELSE TO PUT IT!

I envy everyone that can put their subs wherever they want and one day when I finish my basement I can try that. Right now in my crowded living room, it's just not possible. All I can do is make the best of what I can.

I'm thinking the noises I'm hearing are resonances possibly caused by the deeper extension of the V1500. I never heard anything like it with just my full range speakers. I just hope it's not coming from the actual subwoofer.

Any way, I will have more time to experiment Wednesday. Right now just turning Dynamic EQ OFF and turning the Room Size control from Large to Small has made it sound better!

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post #18190 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I have a new stand arriving Wednesday that is smaller so that I will have two places for sub(s). Right now I only have room for one. I know everyone says to find the best placement but that is simply not an option for me. I know that just putting the subs up front next to my mains is probably not optimum placement but I just don't have ANYWHERE ELSE TO PUT IT!
One of the best statements I read about subwoofers is that the lower the frequencies go, the more you are listening to the effects of the room (or, at really low frequencies, the response of the room itself). Without the ability to move the subwoofer around, no product is going to give you what you're looking for. I'm not saying this to be defeatist or rude; I'm simply pointing out that you could drop a JTR Orbit Shifter into that same space and still encounter the same nulls--your problem is almost certainly not output; but, room modes. I may be wrong; until you can measure, you won't know for sure.

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Any way, I will have more time to experiment Wednesday. Right now just turning Dynamic EQ OFF and turning the Room Size control from Large to Small has made it sound better!
By setting the room size control to small, you are actually lowering the ULF output on the V1500 (per my understanding--someone please correct me if I'm wrong). The whole point is to deal with too much room gain in the low frequencies. While it's possible you're having that issue, it doesn't jive with either the size of your room or the effect you're describing.
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post #18191 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
One of the best statements I read about subwoofers is that the lower the frequencies go, the more you are listening to the effects of the room (or, at really low frequencies, the response of the room itself). Without the ability to move the subwoofer around, no product is going to give you what you're looking for. I'm not saying this to be defeatist or rude; I'm simply pointing out that you could drop a JTR Orbit Shifter into that same space and still encounter the same nulls--your problem is almost certainly not output; but, room modes. I may be wrong; until you can measure, you won't know for sure.



By setting the room size control to small, you are actually lowering the ULF output on the V1500 (per my understanding--someone please correct me if I'm wrong). The whole point is to deal with too much room gain in the low frequencies. While it's possible you're having that issue, it doesn't jive with either the size of your room or the effect you're describing.
I appreciate how you worded your response. I understand what you mean. I think if I can eliminate the resonance I will be happy with the output. Perhaps my changing the size control from large to small is reducing the resonance caused by the deepest bass. This would explain why I never noticed it with my speakers before the sub. I just wish I could figure out for sure where the noise is coming from.
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post #18192 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post
I appreciate how you worded your response. I understand what you mean. I think if I can eliminate the resonance I will be happy with the output. Perhaps my changing the size control from large to small is reducing the resonance caused by the deepest bass. This would explain why I never noticed it with my speakers before the sub. I just wish I could figure out for sure where the noise is coming from.
If you're truly getting resonance from something in the room, that'll show up as a huge spike in SPL for that frequency. Get a UMIK-1 and REW: stop speculating and start investigating!
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So I just purchased a Umk from tom and I love in Ohio so hope to receive it quick.

Hopefully this isn't very hard to learn hahahahah . You all are worse then drugs so addicting
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post #18194 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
If you're truly getting resonance from something in the room, that'll show up as a huge spike in SPL for that frequency. Get a UMIK-1 and REW: stop speculating and start investigating!
I guess I'm just being lazy.

Anyone in the greater Atlanta area want to come help me? I've got beer!

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post #18195 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 04:52 PM
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I guess I'm just being lazy.

Anyone in the greater Atlanta area want to come help me? I've got beer!
If it was 5 years ago, I could have helped. I'm actually from Atlanta--but living in CA these days.
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post #18196 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 05:24 PM
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Ok, with all the talk today on placement, I have finally followed the REW guide to get it functioning on my laptop and with my avr using a Spectrum Labs calibrated UMIK. My first attempts at measurements were taken yesterday for sub response at 3 different locations. My current location and 2 spots that I would LIKE to put duals. Like mnc, I dont have many spots for larger subs and for very similar reasons.

Current sub is an XS30 NON se and sounds good but feel I am missing something in movies. Room is 12x14x7.5 and open at 2 locations. One door size and one almost half the wall-so a non sealed room open to the rest of the 1st floor.

Room correction turned off and graphs are no smoothing with sweeps run 10-300hz.

My current location for the single XS30 isnt terrible but has a few small dips that might be my lack of impact in movies? The peaks would be tamed by Room Correction of some kind (Anthem ARC and open to adding MiniDSP if it will help)

Possible changes might be

*Can I get more from the XS30 at current location
*Will an upgrade to S3000i be a possible improvement at Current Location
*To use duals in front left and right (hopefully the gods of sub placement will be nice) as stands for my mains
*Dual XV15se at Front Left/Right
*Dual V1500 at Front Left/Right
*Ultimate might be add and S3000i to my XS30 as duals up front and maybe upgrade to a 2nd S3000i in the future after selling the XS30

Again, I am just starting with REW and getting my feet wet. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I think 2 S3000i would be killer but expensive

Edit-The current location is near field about 2.5 feet from listening position and mid wall. The front positions are about 9 feet from listening position.




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post #18197 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post

My current location for the single XS30 isnt terrible but has a few small dips that might be my lack of impact in movies? The peaks would be tamed by Room Correction of some kind (Anthem ARC and open to adding MiniDSP if it will help)

Possible changes might be

*Can I get more from the XS30 at current location
*Will an upgrade to S3000i be a possible improvement at Current Location
*To use duals in front left and right (hopefully the gods of sub placement will be nice) as stands for my mains
*Dual XV15se at Front Left/Right
*Dual V1500 at Front Left/Right
*Ultimate might be add and S3000i to my XS30 as duals up front and maybe upgrade to a 2nd S3000i in the future after selling the XS30

Again, I am just starting with REW and getting my feet wet. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I think 2 S3000i would be killer but expensive

Edit-The current location is near field about 2.5 feet from listening position and mid wall. The front positions are about 9 feet from listening position.
Your graphs look a little like mine I just don't have the hump you have between 10 and 13Hz (I have a drop off). But the graphs aren't bad other than the peaks and as you stated, a minidsp would help tame them. I like the graph for the "between windows".

You know a single sub has decent FR in your room so if you are looking for more power and output you could upgrade to the S3000i. But I think I would go with dual XS30s. You would save money and most likely get some smoothing so you may not need a minidsp and you would have all the benefit of duals (which by the way... are great). It's the cheapest route you could go and IMO a good route.

Last edited by Hopinater; 03-30-2015 at 06:16 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Your graphs look a little like mine I just don't have the hump you have between 10 and 15Hz (I have a drop off). But the graphs aren't bad other than the peaks and as you stated minidsp would help tame them.
Regarding the extension at 10-15hz and possibly below, I might be losing that with the XV15se, the V1500 might extend better but maybe I should be concentrating on adding another sealed for more headroom?
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post #18199 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ DynEQ boosts bass up to reference volume. I always have it on with DynVol off. What did it help with dynEQ off? What volume did you listen at? Having a nice sub and not having placement option is tough to get great bass unless you are lucky. Having a second V1500 will definitely helps. Do you hear noise with nothing playing?
What reference level offset do you use with the DynEQ?
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post #18200 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Regarding the extension at 10-15hz and possibly below, I might be losing that with the XV15se, the V1500 might extend better but maybe I should be concentrating on adding another sealed for more headroom?
The XV15se isn't going to go that low and I'm not certain the V1500 would either (but it might come close). You already have a XS30 that obviously is digging deep why change subwoofers? Just add a 2nd one and go with duals.

So yes, you already have extension. A 2nd sub will add some headroom and more importantly, smoothing (most likely, depending on placement).
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
The XV15se isn't going to go that low and I'm not certain the V1500 would either (but it might come close). You already have a XS30 that obviously is digging deep why change subwoofers? Just add a 2nd one and go with duals.

So yes, you already have extension. A 2nd sub will add some headroom and more importantly, smoothing (most likely, depending on placement).
For almost the same price of an XS30se I can get 2 S1500se to add up front. How much or a PITA would it be to dial in 3 subs? I am assuming a MiniDSP would help this?

The squirrel cage is running at full speed right now and driving me nuts
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post #18202 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
For almost the same price of an XS30se I can get 2 S1500se to add up front. How much or a PITA would it be to dial in 3 subs? I am assuming a MiniDSP would help this?
The general rule of thumb is to stick with even numbers. People have done 3; but, it's a lot easier to dial in 2 or 4 than 3.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
For almost the same price of an XS30se I can get 2 S1500se to add up front. How much or a PITA would it be to dial in 3 subs? I am assuming a MiniDSP would help this?

The squirrel cage is running at full speed right now and driving me nuts
LOL… I know the feeling well. It depends, it might go smoothly or it might turn out to be hard, subs are funny that way. Check with Tom and make sure the S1500 will play nice with the XS30. I asked him about combining a XV15se with the V1500 and he said it would not be good due to the difference in port tuning or the fact that the V1500 has so much more extension (I can't remember which). Since you are talking sealed subs it probably wouldn't be a problem but I would still check.

I will say this… it is usually a good idea to use identical subs when you start going with multiples. It takes the guess work out of a lot of variables. That said, you can get great results with different subs, it just may take extra effort.

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RE: Mini DSP, had some time to do some playing around yesterday with my V1500, I also have a Turbo MFW-15. While trying to "gain" match these two subs I ended up needing to run the V1500 at MAX Gain. First, is that a problem? Second, if it is I understand that the Mini DSP rev B comes standard with the jumpers set to 2v input and .9v output which causes a 7db attenuation in the signal. should these be changed? My room is relatively small (~2300^3ft) and sealed. I generally listen at around -20 to -25 on the volume dial so perhaps all this is moot Any Suggestions/comments?
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post #18205 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbreda View Post
Ok, with all the talk today on placement, I have finally followed the REW guide to get it functioning on my laptop and with my avr using a Spectrum Labs calibrated UMIK. My first attempts at measurements were taken yesterday for sub response at 3 different locations. My current location and 2 spots that I would LIKE to put duals. Like mnc, I dont have many spots for larger subs and for very similar reasons.

Current sub is an XS30 NON se and sounds good but feel I am missing something in movies. Room is 12x14x7.5 and open at 2 locations. One door size and one almost half the wall-so a non sealed room open to the rest of the 1st floor.

Room correction turned off and graphs are no smoothing with sweeps run 10-300hz.

My current location for the single XS30 isnt terrible but has a few small dips that might be my lack of impact in movies? The peaks would be tamed by Room Correction of some kind (Anthem ARC and open to adding MiniDSP if it will help)

Possible changes might be

*Can I get more from the XS30 at current location
*Will an upgrade to S3000i be a possible improvement at Current Location
*To use duals in front left and right (hopefully the gods of sub placement will be nice) as stands for my mains
*Dual XV15se at Front Left/Right
*Dual V1500 at Front Left/Right
*Ultimate might be add and S3000i to my XS30 as duals up front and maybe upgrade to a 2nd S3000i in the future after selling the XS30

Again, I am just starting with REW and getting my feet wet. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I think 2 S3000i would be killer but expensive

Edit-The current location is near field about 2.5 feet from listening position and mid wall. The front positions are about 9 feet from listening position.
I would call Tom and beg to be put on the initial notice of any XS30 "b" stocks. They had one like 2 weeks ago that they practically gave away. Two XS30's would be a great solution for you (or XS30se). I wouldn't try and mix and match and I wouldn't be selling your XS30 to get an S3000i. Trust me... I can hardly tell the difference between the V1500 and my old XV15. They both are monsters!

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post #18206 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 07:28 PM
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LOL… I know the feeling well. It depends, it might go smoothly or it might turn out to be hard, subs are funny that way. Check with Tom and make sure the S1500 will play nice with the XS30. I asked him about combining a XV15se with the V1500 and he said it would not be good due to the difference in port tuning. Since you are talking sealed subs it probably wouldn't be a problem but I would still check.

I will say this… it is usually a good idea to use identical subs when you start going with multiples. It takes the guess work out of a lot of variables. That said, you can get great results with different subs, it just may take extra effort.
Opps, I meant 2 XS15se not S1500. But I may be better off with another 30 and leave it with 2 subs. I have sent of an email to Tom and will check more with him tomorrow.
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post #18207 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 07:31 PM
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I would call Tom and beg to be put on the initial notice of any XS30 "b" stocks. They had one like 2 weeks ago that they practically gave away. Two XS30's would be a great solution for you (or XS30se). I wouldn't try and mix and match and I wouldn't be selling your XS30 to get an S3000i. Trust me... I can hardly tell the difference between the V1500 and my old XV15. They both are monsters!
Good to know. I did chat with Tom on Sunday about that...no XS30 B stocks right now.
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post #18208 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 07:32 PM
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ok I love walls!

here is no audyssey..no minidsp...just raw response in new HT


black is the winner...both subs up front behind screen
pink one front one back corner
single digits is fun
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the SadieMax HT build thread - my first build

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post #18209 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 07:33 PM
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Hey guys I took some sub measurements and wanted to take more but when I went to take them all of a sudden REW says NO SOUNDCARD INPUT X is it connected. What does that mean and how can I fix it, it was working and all of a sudden it didn't
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post #18210 of 19228 Old 03-30-2015, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
ok I love walls!

here is no audyssey..no minidsp...just raw response in new HT


single digits is fun
Brian How to you get yours to look like that, I'm ready to throw my UMIK-1 away and delete REW, I don't have a clue what I'm doing, look at my graphs.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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